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Sower4GS
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6/2/2013 6:48:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

You might as well ask...
Is paying the tithe essential for Salvation or
Is eating Kosher essential for Salvation.
Is wearing tzitzot " "
And on and on 613 times.
They are all commands.
Yahshua's blood saves.
The rest are commands.
Certainly Immersion is important, they all are.
Mikveh (baptism) is an old concept dating waaaaaaaay back before Temple period!
Sower4GS
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6/21/2013 10:01:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Exo_20:11 "For in six days יהוה made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.
Sower4GS
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6/24/2013 11:56:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

You might as well ask...
Is paying the tithe essential for Salvation or
Is eating Kosher essential for Salvation.
Is wearing tzitzot " "
And on and on 613 times.
They are all commands.
Yahshua's blood saves.
The rest are commands.
Certainly Immersion is important, they all are.
Mikveh (baptism) is an old concept dating waaaaaaaay back before Temple period!
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/25/2013 12:39:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 6:48:06 AM, Sower4GS wrote:
Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Depends really. If I asked Jesus to save me sincerely today and died tomorrow without baptism then I can safely say I am saved. But, If I continue on I need to be reborn in Christ by baptism, so, yes it is a requirement.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/25/2013 1:15:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 12:39:37 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/2/2013 6:48:06 AM, Sower4GS wrote:
Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Depends really. If I asked Jesus to save me sincerely today and died tomorrow without baptism then I can safely say I am saved. But, If I continue on I need to be reborn in Christ by baptism, so, yes it is a requirement.

If it depends then it's not essential correct?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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6/25/2013 1:18:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 12:39:37 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/2/2013 6:48:06 AM, Sower4GS wrote:
Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Depends really. If I asked Jesus to save me sincerely today and died tomorrow without baptism then I can safely say I am saved. But, If I continue on I need to be reborn in Christ by baptism, so, yes it is a requirement.

That's double-talk. There's not single case of anyone in the NT praying, "Lord, please save me" or anything akin to it, i. e. there is no "sinner's prayer" in the Bible. In every case, the people were baptized ... "into Christ" (Gal 3: 27) ... "unto the remission of sins" (Acts 2: 38) or to "wash away thy sins" (Acts 22: 16) ... because they knew that Jesus Christ had said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16: 16) which explains his original metaphor "unless a man is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3: 5). All you've done, in effect, is said that a person is "in Christ" and has the "remission of sins" prior to baptism - and that baptism is NOT a requirement in order to be saved, but rather a requirement of saved people. That's a slight misrepresentation.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 1:27:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 1:18:28 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/25/2013 12:39:37 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/2/2013 6:48:06 AM, Sower4GS wrote:
Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Depends really. If I asked Jesus to save me sincerely today and died tomorrow without baptism then I can safely say I am saved. But, If I continue on I need to be reborn in Christ by baptism, so, yes it is a requirement.

That's double-talk. There's not single case of anyone in the NT praying, "Lord, please save me" or anything akin to it, i. e. there is no "sinner's prayer" in the Bible. In every case, the people were baptized ... "into Christ" (Gal 3: 27) ... "unto the remission of sins" (Acts 2: 38) or to "wash away thy sins" (Acts 22: 16) ... because they knew that Jesus Christ had said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16: 16) which explains his original metaphor "unless a man is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3: 5). All you've done, in effect, is said that a person is "in Christ" and has the "remission of sins" prior to baptism - and that baptism is NOT a requirement in order to be saved, but rather a requirement of saved people. That's a slight misrepresentation.

So my sixteen year old can go to the alter ask Jesus Christ to save him(sincerely, it has to be sincere of course) and dies going home, you are saying he goes to hell because he has yet to be baptized? What about the thief on the cross who simply believed and had faith, are you saying he was baptized?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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6/25/2013 1:31:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 1:27:25 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/25/2013 1:18:28 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/25/2013 12:39:37 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/2/2013 6:48:06 AM, Sower4GS wrote:
Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Depends really. If I asked Jesus to save me sincerely today and died tomorrow without baptism then I can safely say I am saved. But, If I continue on I need to be reborn in Christ by baptism, so, yes it is a requirement.

That's double-talk. There's not single case of anyone in the NT praying, "Lord, please save me" or anything akin to it, i. e. there is no "sinner's prayer" in the Bible. In every case, the people were baptized ... "into Christ" (Gal 3: 27) ... "unto the remission of sins" (Acts 2: 38) or to "wash away thy sins" (Acts 22: 16) ... because they knew that Jesus Christ had said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16: 16) which explains his original metaphor "unless a man is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3: 5). All you've done, in effect, is said that a person is "in Christ" and has the "remission of sins" prior to baptism - and that baptism is NOT a requirement in order to be saved, but rather a requirement of saved people. That's a slight misrepresentation.

So my sixteen year old can go to the alter ask Jesus Christ to save him(sincerely, it has to be sincere of course) and dies going home, you are saying he goes to hell because he has yet to be baptized? What about the thief on the cross who simply believed and had faith, are you saying he was baptized?
Just another demonstration of god's divine justice and hypocrisy, I guess.
God works in mysterious ways.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 1:32:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 1:15:43 AM, stubs wrote:
At 6/25/2013 12:39:37 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/2/2013 6:48:06 AM, Sower4GS wrote:
Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Depends really. If I asked Jesus to save me sincerely today and died tomorrow without baptism then I can safely say I am saved. But, If I continue on I need to be reborn in Christ by baptism, so, yes it is a requirement.

If it depends then it's not essential correct?

No, it is not for salvation. But to be reborn and to continue in Christ yes it is. You can be saved and not be baptized. But the Bible also says to be reborn in Christ which is being baptized by that you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 1:34:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 1:31:09 AM, bulproof wrote:

So my sixteen year old can go to the alter ask Jesus Christ to save him(sincerely, it has to be sincere of course) and dies going home, you are saying he goes to hell because he has yet to be baptized? What about the thief on the cross who simply believed and had faith, are you saying he was baptized?
Just another demonstration of god's divine justice and hypocrisy, I guess.
God works in mysterious ways.

No, God does not work in mysterious ways. He works plainly and has revealed himself. You act mysterious and strange.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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6/25/2013 1:38:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Harbinger: "So my sixteen year old can go to the alter ask Jesus Christ to save him(sincerely, it has to be sincere of course) and dies going home, you are saying he goes to hell because he has yet to be baptized?"

Anna: I'm saying that you have zero right to tell people that your 16-yr-old is saved without being baptized. I think I'll leave clemency in the hands of God - and not make a doctrine out of it. The Lord still said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" - no matter how sincere anyone is.

Harbinger: What about the thief on the cross who simply believed and had faith, are you saying he was baptized?

Anna: I have no idea if he was baptized or not - nor do you. Whether he was or not makes little difference, for he was saved under the Old Law as a Jew. Perhaps he was baptized. Perhaps not. Baptism was not a requirement under the Mosaic System.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 1:51:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 1:38:01 AM, annanicole wrote:
Harbinger: "So my sixteen year old can go to the alter ask Jesus Christ to save him(sincerely, it has to be sincere of course) and dies going home, you are saying he goes to hell because he has yet to be baptized?"

Anna: I'm saying that you have zero right to tell people that your 16-yr-old is saved without being baptized.

I bring up scripture too, "any who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" says nothing of baptism here. Matter baptism is the gift of the Holy Ghost says that quite a few times.

I think I'll leave clemency in the hands of God

Yes that is where you should leave it and make claims about peoples senerity with God.

- and not make a doctrine out of it.

It seems you are doing the same thing.

The Lord still said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" - no matter how sincere anyone is.

LOL.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

1 Corinthians 15:2
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Harbinger: What about the thief on the cross who simply believed and had faith, are you saying he was baptized?

Anna: I have no idea if he was baptized or not - nor do you. Whether he was or not makes little difference, for he was saved under the Old Law as a Jew. Perhaps he was baptized. Perhaps not. Baptism was not a requirement under the Mosaic System.

Really, He did not die before Jesus. Therefore He had to be saved under grace. He even recognized His savior. Are you saying people could be saved after the cruxifiction by the Old Law?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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6/25/2013 2:03:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anna: The Lord still said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" - no matter how sincere anyone is.

Harbinger: LOL.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

1 Corinthians 15:2
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Anna: ... and I believe every one of those passages - and more. You quote passages that do not even prove your doctrine, so I'll make it a little more specific.

You know, I"ll ask you the same question that MCB conspicuously evaded. Jesus Christ said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." "Believeth" and "is baptized" are actually aorist participles, thus the passage might more accurately read, "He, having been believing and having been baptized, shall be saved." At any rate, according to numerous Greek grammars including Essentials of New Testament Greek by Ray Summers, the TIME of action of an aorist participle CANNOT occur subsequent to the TIME of action of the main verb. However, you are busily teaching that the TIME of action of the 2nd aorist participle, "having been baptized", DOES occur subsequent to the TIME of action of "shall be saved." I say it's impossible - and for one thing, I request any reputable Greek grammar that allows such a construction.

And #2, to demonstrate the impossibility of such a position, I call for a parallel sentence to Mark 16: 16 in the form, "He that (a) and (b) shall receive one million dollars." You may substitute anything in the world for (a) and (b), and I guarantee you that both (a) and (b) will be necessary. Try it. If you think you can supply a parallel sentence in which both (a) and (b) are not requirements for the reward, then do so.

Now, it won't do to simply array one passage against another - which is what you are doing. We'll have to take them all as a whole. You won't stand with Eph 2: 8 at all. Watch and see. I'll take it - and stay right with it.

"For my God's unmerited favor are ye saved, through joyful trust conjoined with obedience, and that (salvation) is not earned by yourselves - it is the gift of God."

Now that's what the passage means - in fact, that's what it says - and I'll take it exactly like that. I simply employed the definitions of a few of the words.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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6/25/2013 2:06:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 1:34:09 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/25/2013 1:31:09 AM, bulproof wrote:

So my sixteen year old can go to the alter ask Jesus Christ to save him(sincerely, it has to be sincere of course) and dies going home, you are saying he goes to hell because he has yet to be baptized? What about the thief on the cross who simply believed and had faith, are you saying he was baptized?
Just another demonstration of god's divine justice and hypocrisy, I guess.
God works in mysterious ways.

No, God does not work in mysterious ways. He works plainly and has revealed himself. You act mysterious and strange.

His book of spells says he does!
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 2:16:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:03:41 AM, annanicole wrote:

You know, I"ll ask you the same question that MCB conspicuously evaded. Jesus Christ said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." "Believeth" and "is baptized" are actually aorist participles, thus the passage might more accurately read,

Here that, Anna says she can offer a better translation then actual scripture itself. I under stand perfectly but lets go on.

"He, having been believing and having been baptized, shall be saved."

Not what it said Anna, sorry, that is a Anna special. I agree you should be baptized. But salvation does not require it, belief and acceptance does. I provide many scriptures that said that and YOU ignored them saying, "that is not what they say." Well Anna, yes they did.

At any rate, according to numerous Greek grammars including Essentials of New Testament Greek by Ray Summers, the TIME of action of an aorist participle CANNOT occur subsequent to the TIME of action of the main verb. However, you are busily teaching that the TIME of action of the 2nd aorist participle, "having been baptized", DOES occur subsequent to the TIME of action of "shall be saved." I say it's impossible - and for one thing, I request any reputable Greek grammar that allows such a construction.

Who cares what some Greek language guy says. I do not need them. I read the Bible, let stick with that, ok? Again I have given numerous verses that do not even speak of baptism for salvation and after Jesus' death too.

And #2, to demonstrate the impossibility of such a position, I call for a parallel sentence to Mark 16: 16 in the form, "He that (a) and (b) shall receive one million dollars." You may substitute anything in the world for (a) and (b), and I guarantee you that both (a) and (b) will be necessary. Try it. If you think you can supply a parallel sentence in which both (a) and (b) are not requirements for the reward, then do so.

I only care about scriptures Anna, stick with that or just go on your way.

Now, it won't do to simply array one passage against another - which is what you are doing.

I can and I will, I have provided many verses to that plainly says belief and acceptance gains salvation, not one mention of baptism.

We'll have to take them all as a whole. You won't stand with Eph 2: 8 at all. Watch and see. I'll take it - and stay right with it.

Anna, you need many witnesses, not one verse, so NO, you wont stick with it. The doctrine of salvation, taught throughout all of the Scriptures and evidenced in all dispensations and ages, stresses that only repentant faith is necessary to be justified and to receive divine forgiveness.

"For my God's unmerited favor are ye saved, through joyful trust conjoined with obedience, and that (salvation) is not earned by yourselves - it is the gift of God."

Now that's what the passage means - in fact, that's what it says - and I'll take it exactly like that. I simply employed the definitions of a few of the words.

Ok, I agree.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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6/25/2013 2:22:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:16:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/25/2013 2:03:41 AM, annanicole wrote:

You know, I"ll ask you the same question that MCB conspicuously evaded. Jesus Christ said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." "Believeth" and "is baptized" are actually aorist participles, thus the passage might more accurately read,

Here that, Anna says she can offer a better translation then actual scripture itself. I under stand perfectly but lets go on.

"He, having been believing and having been baptized, shall be saved."

Not what it said Anna, sorry, that is a Anna special. I agree you should be baptized. But salvation does not require it, belief and acceptance does. I provide many scriptures that said that and YOU ignored them saying, "that is not what they say." Well Anna, yes they did.

At any rate, according to numerous Greek grammars including Essentials of New Testament Greek by Ray Summers, the TIME of action of an aorist participle CANNOT occur subsequent to the TIME of action of the main verb. However, you are busily teaching that the TIME of action of the 2nd aorist participle, "having been baptized", DOES occur subsequent to the TIME of action of "shall be saved." I say it's impossible - and for one thing, I request any reputable Greek grammar that allows such a construction.

Who cares what some Greek language guy says. I do not need them. I read the Bible, let stick with that, ok? Again I have given numerous verses that do not even speak of baptism for salvation and after Jesus' death too.

And #2, to demonstrate the impossibility of such a position, I call for a parallel sentence to Mark 16: 16 in the form, "He that (a) and (b) shall receive one million dollars." You may substitute anything in the world for (a) and (b), and I guarantee you that both (a) and (b) will be necessary. Try it. If you think you can supply a parallel sentence in which both (a) and (b) are not requirements for the reward, then do so.

I only care about scriptures Anna, stick with that or just go on your way.

Now, it won't do to simply array one passage against another - which is what you are doing.

I can and I will, I have provided many verses to that plainly says belief and acceptance gains salvation, not one mention of baptism.

We'll have to take them all as a whole. You won't stand with Eph 2: 8 at all. Watch and see. I'll take it - and stay right with it.

Anna, you need many witnesses, not one verse, so NO, you wont stick with it. The doctrine of salvation, taught throughout all of the Scriptures and evidenced in all dispensations and ages, stresses that only repentant faith is necessary to be justified and to receive divine forgiveness.

"For my God's unmerited favor are ye saved, through joyful trust conjoined with obedience, and that (salvation) is not earned by yourselves - it is the gift of God."

Now that's what the passage means - in fact, that's what it says - and I'll take it exactly like that. I simply employed the definitions of a few of the words.

Ok, I agree.

Harbinger, you DO realize the Bible verses you're talking about weren't originally written in English, right?
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annanicole
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6/25/2013 2:25:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Blade: "Harbinger, you DO realize the Bible verses you're talking about weren't originally written in English, right?"

Anna: He can't answer those questions: I know it, you know it, he knows it, and we all know it. He does not particularly like Mark 16: 16 - and has no answer to it - so he turns infidel and arrays other passages against it. That about sums it up.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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6/25/2013 2:29:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Harbinger: "Again I have given numerous verses that do not even speak of baptism for salvation and after Jesus' death too."

Anna: Prove that the "faith" - "joyful trust conjoined with obedience" - of Eph 2: 8 does not include baptism. All you did was quoted a bunch of passages that mention "faith" in the synecdochal form (which includes compliance or obedience) then pontificated that this obedience does not include baptism. How did you make that discovery?

So I'll ask,

Can the synecdochal, the broad, definition of "pistis" - "faith" - INCLUDE baptism? Can it? It is defined as "joyful trust with obedience." Tell us all why that obedience which is a part of faith does NOT include baptism. That's your position.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 2:30:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:22:28 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:

Harbinger, you DO realize the Bible verses you're talking about weren't originally written in English, right?

And? So? It is now by the Will of God.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 2:31:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:25:12 AM, annanicole wrote:
Blade: "Harbinger, you DO realize the Bible verses you're talking about weren't originally written in English, right?"

Anna: He can't answer those questions: I know it, you know it, he knows it, and we all know it. He does not particularly like Mark 16: 16 - and has no answer to it - so he turns infidel and arrays other passages against it. That about sums it up.

I addressed it, you know it, I know it, they know it. You have not addressed my rebuttal and that shows something. Wonder what that is?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
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6/25/2013 2:32:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Harbinger: "Anna, you need many witnesses, not one verse, so NO, you wont stick with it. The doctrine of salvation, taught throughout all of the Scriptures and evidenced in all dispensations and ages, stresses that only repentant faith is necessary to be justified and to receive divine forgiveness."

It's "penitent faith" - not "repentant faith". And your problem is that you can't even DEFINE faith as it is frequently in the NT, for scriptural faith frequently INCLUDES obedience - and obedience could include baptism. It does you no good to supply passages that say "saved by faith". I totally agree with them. I simply say that you can't define faith - or you apparently can't.

"Pistis" or "pisteuo", i. e. belief or faith, INCLUDES OBEDIENCE.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 2:35:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:29:17 AM, annanicole wrote:
Harbinger: "Again I have given numerous verses that do not even speak of baptism for salvation and after Jesus' death too."

Anna: Prove that the "faith" - "joyful trust conjoined with obedience" - of Eph 2: 8 does not include baptism. All you did was quoted a bunch of passages that mention "faith" in the synecdochal form (which includes compliance or obedience) then pontificated that this obedience does not include baptism. How did you make that discovery?

So I'll ask,

Can the synecdochal, the broad, definition of "pistis" - "faith" - INCLUDE baptism?
Can it?

Most certainly it can but it does not say it, other verses do, but these do not and no matter how much you fight it and try ti ignore it, they do not. Your not Greek, you speak English, why do you seek to go outside your language when God has breathed the Bible in English? IDK?

It is defined as "joyful trust with obedience." Tell us all why that obedience which is a part of faith does NOT include baptism. That's your position.

Because faith in Jesus Christ concludes salvation, obedience which is after salvation does include baptism.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
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6/25/2013 2:46:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anna: He can't answer those questions: I know it, you know it, he knows it, and we all know it. He does not particularly like Mark 16: 16 - and has no answer to it - so he turns infidel and arrays other passages against it. That about sums it up.

Harbinger: I addressed it, you know it, I know it, they know it. You have not addressed my rebuttal and that shows something. Wonder what that is?

Anna: Addressed it? You "addressed" it by crying about it. You whined about an examination of the participles in Greek or English. I asked for a parallel sentence which support your view, you can't give it - so you "addressed it" by saying you wouldn't do it. You "addressed" it by citing a passage about "saved by faith" and saying "no baptism there."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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6/25/2013 2:48:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Harbinger: "why do you seek to go outside your language when God has breathed the Bible in English? IDK?"

Anna: LMAO! You think God inspired a Bible in ENGLISH? Pardon me, but you don't sound like a Christian: you sound like a half-baked Baptist resuscitated from Westboro. FYI, the SOURCE of our Bible - the closest we have to the original - are GREEK MANUSCRIPTS, hundreds of them. All we have are English translations.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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6/25/2013 2:51:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anna: "It is defined as "joyful trust with obedience." Tell us all why that obedience which is a part of faith does NOT include baptism. That's your position.

Harbinger: Because faith in Jesus Christ concludes salvation, obedience which is after salvation does include baptism.

Anna: FAITH INCLUDES OBEDIENCE! Can you not get that through your head? Faith is defined as "joyful trust with obedience". As I said, you cannot even define "faith".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 3:03:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:32:37 AM, annanicole wrote:

"Pistis" or "pisteuo", i. e. belief or faith, INCLUDES OBEDIENCE.

Pisteuo- Belief, Commit, Intrust, Trust, Faith

Pistis- : faith, belief, trust, confidence.

That is not Obedience. Obedience- good behavior; submissiveness.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 3:06:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:46:17 AM, annanicole wrote:

Anna: Addressed it? You "addressed" it by crying about it.

I am not crying about. It is simply useless. The KJV Bible was already translated and is correct. You see fit to reinterpret the Bible not I. Well Anna do not like the wording so lets reword it. Nah, lets not. It seems you are whining about the English translation.

You whined about an examination of the participles in Greek or English.

Not it is useless and pointless.

I asked for a parallel sentence which support your view, you can't give it - so you "addressed it" by saying you wouldn't do it. You "addressed" it by citing a passage about "saved by faith" and saying "no baptism there."

I know I provide scripture and that troubles you. That is just wrong for a Bible believing Christian.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 3:08:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:48:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
Harbinger: "why do you seek to go outside your language when God has breathed the Bible in English? IDK?"

Anna: LMAO! You think God inspired a Bible in ENGLISH? Pardon me, but you don't sound like a Christian: you sound like a half-baked Baptist resuscitated from Westboro. FYI, the SOURCE of our Bible - the closest we have to the original - are GREEK MANUSCRIPTS, hundreds of them. All we have are English translations.

It appears you are not the Christian, you are the one laughing that God Almighty does maintain His Word in all languages, including English, tried by fire 7 times.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
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6/25/2013 3:11:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/25/2013 2:51:21 AM, annanicole wrote:
Anna: "It is defined as "joyful trust with obedience." Tell us all why that obedience which is a part of faith does NOT include baptism. That's your position.

Harbinger: Because faith in Jesus Christ concludes salvation, obedience which is after salvation does include baptism.

Anna: FAITH INCLUDES OBEDIENCE!

No, obedience is not faith. It is separate requirement.

Can you not get that through your head? Faith is defined as "joyful trust with obedience". As I said, you cannot even define "faith".

It seems you cannot get it through your thick head, it does not mean faith, if it did you would provide a definition with, you have not, you simply assert it. But I will.

Biblical Definition Of Faith Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1, KJV). Hebrews 11:1 is probably the most concise definition of faith found in the Bible. It is considered the classical definition of faith. Faith is both the substance of things hoped for and the evidence that things exist that are not yet perceived with the senses.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
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6/25/2013 3:16:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Harbinger: I am not crying about. It is simply useless. The KJV Bible was already translated and is correct. You see fit to reinterpret the Bible not I. Well Anna do not like the wording so lets reword it. Nah, lets not. It seems you are whining about the English translation.

Anna: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned."

I simply expanded the participles. I never said the KJV or ASV were not correct.

You whined about an examination of the participles in Greek or English.

Harbinger: Not it is useless and pointless.

Anna: It's very useful because it kills your doctrine. That's why you cannot do it. I knew that before I asked - I just wanted to see what method of squirming you'd employ to get away from the question.

You also can't think up a single parallel sentence to Mark 16: 16 that fits your doctrine. You know, I've asked for that sentence for years. Nobody has ever even attempted it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."