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How to love

Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 1:44:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
We should listen without interrupting. When we speak we should do it without accusing one another. We should give anything without spare or seeking anything in return. We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing. When we give answers to questions we should do it without arguing. We should share without pretending. We should enjoy our lives and what we have without complaint. We should trust in God without wavering. When we are done wrong by, we should forgive without punishment. And when we promise something we should never forget that promise.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/6/2013 1:54:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
All that sounds like a great representation of love except "We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing" and "We should trust in God without wavering", which has nothing to do with it.

But if it's an effective way of tricking yourself into being more loving, then, by all means, go with that too.

I prefer to love people because I like loving people. Not because anyone tells me to.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 2:03:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 1:54:51 AM, FREEDO wrote:
All that sounds like a great representation of love except "We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing" and "We should trust in God without wavering", which has nothing to do with it.:

Sir, you would not have love or even know what love is without the Most High. You can deny Him and what He has given you but that does not change that, love, is through Him and by Him.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
FREEDO
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6/6/2013 2:07:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 2:03:35 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Sir, you would not have love or even know what love is without the Most High. You can deny Him and what He has given you but that does not change that, love, is through Him and by Him.

Are you aware that Christians have higher rates of violent crime and higher divorce rates than Atheists?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 2:09:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 2:07:48 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/6/2013 2:03:35 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Sir, you would not have love or even know what love is without the Most High. You can deny Him and what He has given you but that does not change that, love, is through Him and by Him.

Are you aware that Christians have higher rates of violent crime and higher divorce rates than Atheists?

Interesting, How many Christians are there verses atheist?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/6/2013 2:15:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 2:09:47 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Interesting, How many Christians are there verses atheist?

There are more Christians. At least in the US. However, the statistics relate to percentage, not number.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 2:21:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 2:15:30 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/6/2013 2:09:47 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Interesting, How many Christians are there verses atheist?

There are more Christians. At least in the US. However, the statistics relate to percentage, not number.

I see, indeed. Are all Christians who say they are Christians, actually Christian? My Bible which should guide one in the philosophy of Christianity, says we should not be violent.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/6/2013 2:30:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 2:21:45 AM, Harbinger wrote:
I see, indeed. Are all Christians who say they are Christians, actually Christian? My Bible which should guide one in the philosophy of Christianity, says we should not be violent.

That is a good point. I should say "self-professed Christians vs self-professed Atheist".

Although I would turn the question around and ask you if all Atheists are necessarily non-Christian.

If an Atheist is acting more loving, wouldn't you find it proper to say that they are being more "Christian".

I don't fully deny any religion, including Christianity. I think they are metaphors we create for ourselves. Because most people do have an innate desire to be at peace with one another. So we create elaborate excuses to do so. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But it isn't necessary and often gets mixed up with a bunch of stuff that corrupts it. Many Christians espouse a message of love and then use religion to act and do things quite contrary to that.

I think living a fulfilling life is actually very simple. Yet it's very difficult for people to be simple.

I love people because I want to. And that's the only excuse I need.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 2:45:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 2:30:12 AM, FREEDO wrote:

Thank you for your replies BTW:)

That is a good point. I should say "self-professed Christians vs self-professed Atheist".

Although I would turn the question around and ask you if all Atheists are necessarily non-Christian.

In the philosophy of Christianity, it is essential that one believe in God. I must then confess that no actual atheist can be Christian without that element.

If an Atheist is acting more loving, wouldn't you find it proper to say that they are being more "Christian".

Indeed I would, if we are solely talking about violence and loving actions.

But it isn't necessary and often gets mixed up with a bunch of stuff that corrupts it. Many Christians espouse a message of love and then use religion to act and do things quite contrary to that.

I do agree that those so-called Christians act contrary to their confessed beliefs. I do not agree that it is not necessary. I contend that man(Christian or nay) corrupts.

I love people because I want to. And that's the only excuse I need.

That is a great way to be.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/6/2013 3:14:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What does it mean to "believe in God"?

Is it overly semantical to say that, if God is love and one believes in love, then one does believe in God?

The way I see it, God is a psychological construct which we use to represent our most closely held values. Which isn't to say that it's false. It's just as real as any other concept which has real applications in our lives.

I think lots of people may "believe" in the same God you do, but they don't use the same label. Ultimately, words are just made up things we use to explain vague feelings.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 3:55:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 3:14:31 AM, FREEDO wrote:
What does it mean to "believe in God"?

It means to have faith, that God is who He says He is and He does what He said He will do.

Is it overly semantical to say that, if God is love and one believes in love, then one does believe in God?

It is nothing but semantics. It is true you can believe in love but that does not mean you believe it is God who makes that love possible.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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6/6/2013 5:45:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 3:55:30 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 3:14:31 AM, FREEDO wrote:
What does it mean to "believe in God"?

It means to have faith, that God is who He says He is and He does what He said He will do.

Is it overly semantical to say that, if God is love and one believes in love, then one does believe in God?

It is nothing but semantics. It is true you can believe in love but that does not mean you believe it is God who makes that love possible.
Are murder and rape and infanticide demonstrations of love?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 7:10:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 5:45:23 AM, bulproof wrote:

Are murder and rape and infanticide demonstrations of love?

Hello bulproof! Thanks for your reply. I would say they surely would not be considered loving. I am going out on a limb here and will assume you are referring to the canaanites. Would I be right?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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6/6/2013 7:21:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:10:22 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 5:45:23 AM, bulproof wrote:

Are murder and rape and infanticide demonstrations of love?

Hello bulproof! Thanks for your reply. I would say they surely would not be considered loving. I am going out on a limb here and will assume you are referring to the canaanites. Would I be right?
Well NO, I was talking about the god of the bible. That after all was his schtick.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 7:23:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:21:58 AM, bulproof wrote:

Well NO, I was talking about the god of the bible. That after all was his schtick.

What Bible do you read? When has any God been subject to human law?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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6/6/2013 7:33:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:23:54 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:21:58 AM, bulproof wrote:

Well NO, I was talking about the god of the bible. That after all was his schtick.

What Bible do you read? When has any God been subject to human law?
Oh I'm so sorry, this god is the bedrock upon which OBJECTIVE MORALITY is based and yet RAPE, MURDER and INFANTICIDE is permitted within that objective morality. Or are you claiming that your god's morality is in fact subjective to your gods wishes and behaviours? You see I'm not subjecting your god to human laws, but to his own allegedly OBJECTIVE MORALITY.
So now it's for you to make an argument either for or against the objective morality of your god. ( I hope you understand OBJECTIVE?)
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/6/2013 7:35:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 1:44:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
We should listen without interrupting. When we speak we should do it without accusing one another. We should give anything without spare or seeking anything in return. We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing. When we give answers to questions we should do it without arguing. We should share without pretending. We should enjoy our lives and what we have without complaint. We should trust in God without wavering. When we are done wrong by, we should forgive without punishment. And when we promise something we should never forget that promise.

God gave us two ears , two eyes, but only one mouth, that should tell us something.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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6/6/2013 7:42:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:35:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/6/2013 1:44:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
We should listen without interrupting. When we speak we should do it without accusing one another. We should give anything without spare or seeking anything in return. We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing. When we give answers to questions we should do it without arguing. We should share without pretending. We should enjoy our lives and what we have without complaint. We should trust in God without wavering. When we are done wrong by, we should forgive without punishment. And when we promise something we should never forget that promise.

God gave us two ears , two eyes, but only one mouth, that should tell us something.
Nope.
Zepiathianata gave us one of our ears and Og gave us our mouth. Gravistus gave us one of our eyes and god gave us our arse. Krubnm gave us the other ear and #$@!^&^% gave us our second eye, but it was blind as you would expect from an eye in your navel. It was trixabinicazanus who gave us the almost second eye.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 7:46:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:33:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:23:54 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:21:58 AM, bulproof wrote:

Well NO, I was talking about the god of the bible. That after all was his schtick.

What Bible do you read? When has any God been subject to human law?
Oh I'm so sorry, this god is the bedrock upon which OBJECTIVE MORALITY is based and yet RAPE, MURDER and INFANTICIDE is permitted within that objective morality. Or are you claiming that your god's morality is in fact subjective to your gods wishes and behaviours? You see I'm not subjecting your god to human laws, but to his own allegedly OBJECTIVE MORALITY.
So now it's for you to make an argument either for or against the objective morality of your god. ( I hope you understand OBJECTIVE?)

No, you are making claims that you have yet to provide evidence for.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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6/6/2013 7:53:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:46:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:33:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:23:54 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:21:58 AM, bulproof wrote:

Well NO, I was talking about the god of the bible. That after all was his schtick.

What Bible do you read? When has any God been subject to human law?
Oh I'm so sorry, this god is the bedrock upon which OBJECTIVE MORALITY is based and yet RAPE, MURDER and INFANTICIDE is permitted within that objective morality. Or are you claiming that your god's morality is in fact subjective to your gods wishes and behaviours? You see I'm not subjecting your god to human laws, but to his own allegedly OBJECTIVE MORALITY.
So now it's for you to make an argument either for or against the objective morality of your god. ( I hope you understand OBJECTIVE?)

No, you are making claims that you have yet to provide evidence for.
Once again you are sorry, because the evidence is contained in the book allegedly inspired by your god. He should have got some better (holy)ghost writers........lol
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 7:58:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:53:27 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:46:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:33:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:23:54 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:21:58 AM, bulproof wrote:

Well NO, I was talking about the god of the bible. That after all was his schtick.

What Bible do you read? When has any God been subject to human law?
Oh I'm so sorry, this god is the bedrock upon which OBJECTIVE MORALITY is based and yet RAPE, MURDER and INFANTICIDE is permitted within that objective morality. Or are you claiming that your god's morality is in fact subjective to your gods wishes and behaviours? You see I'm not subjecting your god to human laws, but to his own allegedly OBJECTIVE MORALITY.
So now it's for you to make an argument either for or against the objective morality of your god. ( I hope you understand OBJECTIVE?)

No, you are making claims that you have yet to provide evidence for.
Once again you are sorry, because the evidence is contained in the book allegedly inspired by your god. He should have got some better (holy)ghost writers........lol

Where? You say it is there but still yet, you have not shown it there. I cannot just answer something that very well does not exist. See how it works is you make a claim and provide evidence for it. Otherwise, your just talking nonsense.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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6/6/2013 8:11:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:58:04 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:53:27 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:46:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:33:34 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:23:54 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:21:58 AM, bulproof wrote:

Well NO, I was talking about the god of the bible. That after all was his schtick.

What Bible do you read? When has any God been subject to human law?
Oh I'm so sorry, this god is the bedrock upon which OBJECTIVE MORALITY is based and yet RAPE, MURDER and INFANTICIDE is permitted within that objective morality. Or are you claiming that your god's morality is in fact subjective to your gods wishes and behaviours? You see I'm not subjecting your god to human laws, but to his own allegedly OBJECTIVE MORALITY.
So now it's for you to make an argument either for or against the objective morality of your god. ( I hope you understand OBJECTIVE?)

No, you are making claims that you have yet to provide evidence for.
Once again you are sorry, because the evidence is contained in the book allegedly inspired by your god. He should have got some better (holy)ghost writers........lol

Where? You say it is there but still yet, you have not shown it there. I cannot just answer something that very well does not exist. See how it works is you make a claim and provide evidence for it. Otherwise, your just talking nonsense.

Woops, I thought that you had read the bible. Would you like to do so and come back to this conversation? I'll give you a start, look up "first born" on biblegateway.com
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 8:16:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 8:11:39 AM, bulproof wrote:

Woops, I thought that you had read the bible. Would you like to do so and come back to this conversation? I'll give you a start, look up "first born" on biblegateway.com

I understand now. You make claims and never provide any evidence. It appears you need to research what it is you claim before you claim or otherwise do not make those claims. Again, YOU provide evidence!
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
leojm
Posts: 1,825
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6/6/2013 9:54:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 1:44:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
We should listen without interrupting. When we speak we should do it without accusing one another. We should give anything without spare or seeking anything in return. We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing. When we give answers to questions we should do it without arguing. We should share without pretending. We should enjoy our lives and what we have without complaint. We should trust in God without wavering. When we are done wrong by, we should forgive without punishment. And when we promise something we should never forget that promise.

It's hard to forgive somethings. Somethings might get forgiven but still deserves to be punished.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 1:30:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 9:54:10 AM, leojm wrote:
At 6/6/2013 1:44:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
We should listen without interrupting. When we speak we should do it without accusing one another. We should give anything without spare or seeking anything in return. We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing. When we give answers to questions we should do it without arguing. We should share without pretending. We should enjoy our lives and what we have without complaint. We should trust in God without wavering. When we are done wrong by, we should forgive without punishment. And when we promise something we should never forget that promise.

It's hard to forgive somethings. Somethings might get forgiven but still deserves to be punished.

They will be punished by God, not us.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
IslamAhmadiyya
Posts: 65
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6/6/2013 11:23:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Everything you said is absolutely correct.

Those are wonderful reasons for love.

Praise be to the Exalted One, for creating such a treasure.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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6/6/2013 11:54:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 8:16:18 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 8:11:39 AM, bulproof wrote:

Woops, I thought that you had read the bible. Would you like to do so and come back to this conversation? I'll give you a start, look up "first born" on biblegateway.com

I understand now. You make claims and never provide any evidence. It appears you need to research what it is you claim before you claim or otherwise do not make those claims. Again, YOU provide evidence!

http://www.biblegateway.com...
for the unread
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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6/7/2013 12:16:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 2:03:35 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 1:54:51 AM, FREEDO wrote:
All that sounds like a great representation of love except "We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing" and "We should trust in God without wavering", which has nothing to do with it.:

Sir, you would not have love or even know what love is without the Most High. You can deny Him and what He has given you but that does not change that, love, is through Him and by Him.

Why does love require God?
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/7/2013 1:18:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 11:54:15 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/6/2013 8:16:18 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 8:11:39 AM, bulproof wrote:

Woops, I thought that you had read the bible. Would you like to do so and come back to this conversation? I'll give you a start, look up "first born" on biblegateway.com

I understand now. You make claims and never provide any evidence. It appears you need to research what it is you claim before you claim or otherwise do not make those claims. Again, YOU provide evidence!

http://www.biblegateway.com...
for the unread

So, justify to me how we kill millions of babies in the womb and hundreds of thousands in war. Is this some how God's fault?
But anyway, if the Pharoah would just let his slaves go would have this been averted?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/7/2013 1:20:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/7/2013 12:16:32 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 6/6/2013 2:03:35 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 1:54:51 AM, FREEDO wrote:
All that sounds like a great representation of love except "We should pray to the Most High without ever ceasing" and "We should trust in God without wavering", which has nothing to do with it.:

Sir, you would not have love or even know what love is without the Most High. You can deny Him and what He has given you but that does not change that, love, is through Him and by Him.

Why does love require God?

How is it not? I realize you do not believe in God and that is your right. But if God exist, do you think love formed without Him?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."