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Trinitarian Hooey.

Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/6/2013 3:22:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
He therefore, being One with the Father is Eternal, not a creation, and the Word Trinity
is not found in Scripture. The word Echad is. YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is One.
Scripture therefore is what I turn to when describing Them, not the word Trinity.
It never came out of our Messiah's mouth or any of His original and early followers, why should it proceed out of the mouths of His modern followers?
Please start a comment thread.
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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6/6/2013 3:23:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 3:22:28 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
He therefore, being One with the Father is Eternal, not a creation, and the Word Trinity
is not found in Scripture. The word Echad is. YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is One.
Scripture therefore is what I turn to when describing Them, not the word Trinity.
It never came out of our Messiah's mouth or any of His original and early followers, why should it proceed out of the mouths of His modern followers?
Please start a comment thread.

I already answered, but why not answer again.

'The urgency of confuting heretics made it necessary to find new words to express the ancient faith about God.' - St. Thomas Aquinas
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 3:31:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 5:7-8 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Matthew 3:17 - And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2 Corinthians 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. ([The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.])

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 10:30-36 - I and [my] Father are one.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Luke 1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Isaiah 43:10 - Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Psalms 2:7 - I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Genesis 11:7 - Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Genesis 3:22 - And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

1 Timothy 2:5 - For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Colossians 1:15-17 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Ephesians 4:4-6 - [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

John 14:28 - Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Matthew 24:36 - But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Hebrews 2:9 - But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 Corinthians 15:28 - And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Acts 13:2 - As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/6/2013 3:39:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 3:23:58 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
At 6/6/2013 3:22:28 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
He therefore, being One with the Father is Eternal, not a creation, and the Word Trinity
is not found in Scripture. The word Echad is. YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is One.
Scripture therefore is what I turn to when describing Them, not the word Trinity.
It never came out of our Messiah's mouth or any of His original and early followers, why should it proceed out of the mouths of His modern followers?
Please start a comment thread.

I already answered, but why not answer again.

'The urgency of confuting heretics made it necessary to find new words to express the ancient faith about God.' - St. Thomas Aquinas

So you and Aquiy are saying Trinitarian is a bunch of Hooey? Right?
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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6/6/2013 3:41:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 3:39:18 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
At 6/6/2013 3:23:58 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
At 6/6/2013 3:22:28 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
He therefore, being One with the Father is Eternal, not a creation, and the Word Trinity
is not found in Scripture. The word Echad is. YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is One.
Scripture therefore is what I turn to when describing Them, not the word Trinity.
It never came out of our Messiah's mouth or any of His original and early followers, why should it proceed out of the mouths of His modern followers?
Please start a comment thread.

I already answered, but why not answer again.

'The urgency of confuting heretics made it necessary to find new words to express the ancient faith about God.' - St. Thomas Aquinas

So you and Aquiy are saying Trinitarian is a bunch of Hooey? Right?

No, we're saying that it should proceed out of the mouths of his modern followers because it is efficient for the confutation of heretics.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 3:48:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sower you have not addressed one piece of scripture to show why we should follow the Torah. IDK who you think your messing with, I know my Bible and I have the Spirit. You are just playing the wrong game and I never allow you to preach that Christians should return to the Law that Christ has fulfilled, sending them to hell.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/6/2013 3:52:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I never said the redeemed will go to sheol, never.
If you are made aware of a truth and accept it and then defile it over and over and over, than you need to be real concerned.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 3:54:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 3:52:47 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
I never said the redeemed will go to sheol, never.
If you are made aware of a truth and accept it and then defile it over and over and over, than you need to be real concerned.

No I do not. Neither does any of the elect. We have been bought for a price and that is settled. I will then turn to James who tells if we have Christ, we will reflect His message through our actions.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/6/2013 4:06:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Don't be to concerned bro, you are not aware of the truth that Torah is needed. You are still decieved in that respect. Once you acept the Truth then you are fully accountable. Once you then start following Torah and brak it, over and over and over and over, then sweat should start to form. It does not in the consistently disobedient that are aware of their naughtiness, but it should.

I know some once Torah observant followers of Messiah that are in a bad, bad way now, because they have whored around and broken Torah consistently since they started to try and follow the Torah.
They are in big fat trouble. Hot trouble if you dig.
Now You really need to now your ABC's before you get into these truth's.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/6/2013 4:22:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 4:06:31 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Don't be to concerned bro, you are not aware of the truth that Torah is needed. You are still decieved in that respect. Once you acept the Truth then you are fully accountable. Once you then start following Torah and brak it, over and over and over and over, then sweat should start to form. It does not in the consistently disobedient that are aware of their naughtiness, but it should.

I know some once Torah observant followers of Messiah that are in a bad, bad way now, because they have whored around and broken Torah consistently since they started to try and follow the Torah.
They are in big fat trouble. Hot trouble if you dig.
Now You really need to now your ABC's before you get into these truth's.

I know my ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP and that is as far as I will go because I don't know everything. I certainly know more than you and that is displayed for all to see. You cling to a Law that Jesus Christ fulfilled for all. No one is saying trash the OT, it is very much needed, by the Law to gain salvation and cleansing of sins are fulfilled through Christ our Lord. I mean the Muslims believe in Jesus and confess He is righteous. That don't mean they are Christain.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/6/2013 4:29:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have no time to argue and would not anyway.
I have explained this over and over>
The Torah does not secure Salvation, Yahshua's blood does.
If you Start to Obey Torah and then disobey Torah consistently and hatefully, you are in trouble.
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/6/2013 4:32:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 4:22:12 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 4:06:31 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Don't be to concerned bro, you are not aware of the truth that Torah is needed. You are still decieved in that respect. Once you acept the Truth then you are fully accountable. Once you then start following Torah and brak it, over and over and over and over, then sweat should start to form. It does not in the consistently disobedient that are aware of their naughtiness, but it should.

I know some once Torah observant followers of Messiah that are in a bad, bad way now, because they have whored around and broken Torah consistently since they started to try and follow the Torah.
They are in big fat trouble. Hot trouble if you dig.
Now You really need to now your ABC's before you get into these truth's.

I know my ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP and that is as far as I will go because I don't know everything. I certainly know more than you and that is displayed for all to see. You cling to a Law that Jesus Christ fulfilled for all. No one is saying trash the OT, it is very much needed, by the Law to gain salvation and cleansing of sins are fulfilled through Christ our Lord. I mean the Muslims believe in Jesus and confess He is righteous. That don't mean they are Christain.

Posted: 25 minutes ago
Don't be to concerned bro, you are not aware of the truth that Torah is needed. You are still decieved in that respect. Once you acept the Truth then you are fully accountable. Once you then start following Torah and brak it, over and over and over and over, then sweat should start to form. It does not in the consistently disobedient that are aware of their naughtiness, but it should.

I know some once Torah observant followers of Messiah that are in a bad, bad way now, because they have whored around and broken Torah consistently since they started to try and follow the Torah.
They are in big fat trouble. Hot trouble if you dig.
Now You really need to now your ABC's before you get into these truth's.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/6/2013 6:19:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 4:32:45 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
At 6/6/2013 4:22:12 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/6/2013 4:06:31 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Don't be to concerned bro, you are not aware of the truth that Torah is needed. You are still decieved in that respect. Once you acept the Truth then you are fully accountable. Once you then start following Torah and brak it, over and over and over and over, then sweat should start to form. It does not in the consistently disobedient that are aware of their naughtiness, but it should.

I know some once Torah observant followers of Messiah that are in a bad, bad way now, because they have whored around and broken Torah consistently since they started to try and follow the Torah.
They are in big fat trouble. Hot trouble if you dig.
Now You really need to now your ABC's before you get into these truth's.

I know my ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP and that is as far as I will go because I don't know everything. I certainly know more than you and that is displayed for all to see. You cling to a Law that Jesus Christ fulfilled for all. No one is saying trash the OT, it is very much needed, by the Law to gain salvation and cleansing of sins are fulfilled through Christ our Lord. I mean the Muslims believe in Jesus and confess He is righteous. That don't mean they are Christain.

Posted: 25 minutes ago
Don't be to concerned bro, you are not aware of the truth that Torah is needed. You are still decieved in that respect. Once you acept the Truth then you are fully accountable. Once you then start following Torah and brak it, over and over and over and over, then sweat should start to form. It does not in the consistently disobedient that are aware of their naughtiness, but it should.

I know some once Torah observant followers of Messiah that are in a bad, bad way now, because they have whored around and broken Torah consistently since they started to try and follow the Torah.
They are in big fat trouble. Hot trouble if you dig.
Now You really need to now your ABC's before you get into these truth's.

You just dodged all his points. Scripture clearly speaks on a trinity...
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/6/2013 6:42:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hardly. Check my posts, we had it out about the oneness of YHWH. Big time!
We never got to it on this thread cause I was talking to 12 people at the same time. It was nutz!
YHWH one, pun intended.
The opponents scattered,,,check the threads brah.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/7/2013 1:30:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 4:29:11 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
I have no time to argue and would not anyway.
I have explained this over and over>
The Torah does not secure Salvation, Yahshua's blood does.
If you Start to Obey Torah and then disobey Torah consistently and hatefully, you are in trouble.

That tells me I am wrong and I will not admit it.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/9/2013 5:38:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Excellent teaching on the Oneness of YHWH and Yahshua! If you have not had a chance, here you go!
http://www.eliyah.com...
Snipet:
But the Trinity and Oneness are both reflections of different ideas as to the true character of Yahweh, the true character of His Son, the Holy Spirit, and so on. So, I want to discern what all the Scriptures say.

And there are going to be some which on the surface would appear, maybe, to be contradictory. But we are going to see where, no, they do not contradict.

Most Christians today that go to a typical run-of-the-mill everyday Sunday Church would tell you they believe in a trinity. In fact, some denominations and some teachers today would actually believe that unless you believe the Trinity that you cannot be saved. You have no salvation.

Some Christians will actually use, if you don't believe in that doctrine of the Trinity, then (in their minds) based on that reason alone, you are in a cult.

And there are some of you maybe listening today, maybe some of you who are just your normal everyday Christian going to church every Sunday and are just tuning in to the broadcast, the minute you heard me say, "I don't believe the Trinity," you feel like you just want to shut the thing off. You don't want to hear what I have to say.

That's fully your choice. That's what denominational, or not even non-denominational, Christians are told to do by the clergy: "If they don't believe the Trinity, then you don't want to listen to them because they are in a cult."

They are straying from what one popular Bible teacher would say is the faith of the orthodoxy of the historical Christian church. You know, there are a lot of areas that I am going to stray from the historical Christian Church, orthodoxy, and so on.

If you are not comfortable with that and you are content just to follow what the church fathers teach rather than, "Let's look at what the New Testament says. Let's look at what the Old Testament says and go by that."

If you're more familiar and more comfortable with following church fathers and clergies of today, then you're not going to be comfortable with my teachings today.

My paradigm, the foundation of what I am working off of, is not what any church father said. It's not what a modern preacher says. It is what I see in the Scriptures, and if you see something different than what I see in the Scriptures, feel free, please, after today's broadcast, tell it to everyone.

Very good teaching!
Sower4GS
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6/21/2013 10:12:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Deu 6:24 "And יהוה commanded us to do all these laws, to fear יהוה our Elohim, for our good always, to keep us alive, as it is today.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/22/2013 3:16:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 10:12:31 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Deu 6:24 "And יהוה commanded us to do all these laws,:
Jesus Christ fulfilled that Law. That Law was crucified with Christ and we live by His gospel and in Him and not works.

to fear יהוה our Elohim, for our good always, to keep us alive, as it is today.

How can you stay alive when you are trying to follow a Law you can never live up to. Jesus Christ did, we live in Him.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Sower4GS
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6/22/2013 10:01:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/22/2013 3:16:14 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 10:12:31 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Deu 6:24 "And יהוה commanded us to do all these laws,:
Jesus Christ fulfilled that Law. That Law was crucified with Christ and we live by His gospel and in Him and not works.

to fear יהוה our Elohim, for our good always, to keep us alive, as it is today.

How can you stay alive when you are trying to follow a Law you can never live up to. Jesus Christ did, we live in Him.
We can follow the Torah.
He told us to keep and and obey Torah. Look in the Concordance Harb. Every time you see the word command or commands or commandments He is referring to Torah, law, etc. Now leave Yahushua's word be, please.

You are not seeking Yahushua right now, so let me pray for you for a few weeks and then we can talk.