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Why does religions think they know everything

Curaodo
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6/8/2013 8:53:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Are there gods in the universe?
What are the thoughts of those gods?
What happens within a singularity/Black Hole?
Is there an afterlife?
What happens in the afterlife if there is one?
What happened at the point of time one second before the Big Bang?

With the exception of the Big Bang/singularity -questions you can bet your shoes that most religious persons would know the answer to these questions with 100% certainty.
Why is that? How can they be so smug with their answers and say they know, without a shred of doubt, that they are right?
Whereas a scientist would amazingly answer:
"I don't know"
"We have absolutely no idea"

How come so many of you thinks that they know exactly WHAT will happen when you die? How do you keep pulling out answers for everything in existence out of thin air, and proclaim they are the absolute truth?

Help me here. As a man of the scientific method I am baffled by this display of ego.

I apologize for the poor wording. I could take more time to word myself more precisely by I hope you get my point. I'd like to hear your viewpoints on this.
Let me sum up my topic:

Religious person: "I know everything. Life and death is no mystery to me. The universe is fully explained in all its glory to us through my god/gods. Nothing will change my mind."

Man of Science: "We still know SO little of the universe. But we are working on it. It has taken us thousands of years to develop the math and knowledge we have at this point. And what we DO know seem to work. We far, far, FAR from know everything. And if you happen to find out something new, please tell us. We'll change our ways immediately. We want to improve and expand our knowledge."

And lastly. Would you ever hear a religious person say: "I have absolutely no clue". (Or a politician for that matter....)
bulproof
Posts: 25,225
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6/8/2013 9:28:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
To the Title: 'cos they don't know anyfink.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/8/2013 9:33:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 8:53:06 AM, Curaodo wrote:
Are there gods in the universe?
What are the thoughts of those gods?
What happens within a singularity/Black Hole?
Is there an afterlife?
What happens in the afterlife if there is one?
What happened at the point of time one second before the Big Bang?

With the exception of the Big Bang/singularity -questions you can bet your shoes that most religious persons would know the answer to these questions with 100% certainty.
Why is that? How can they be so smug with their answers and say they know, without a shred of doubt, that they are right?
Whereas a scientist would amazingly answer:
"I don't know"
"We have absolutely no idea"

How come so many of you thinks that they know exactly WHAT will happen when you die? How do you keep pulling out answers for everything in existence out of thin air, and proclaim they are the absolute truth?

Help me here. As a man of the scientific method I am baffled by this display of ego.

I apologize for the poor wording. I could take more time to word myself more precisely by I hope you get my point. I'd like to hear your viewpoints on this.
Let me sum up my topic:

Religious person: "I know everything. Life and death is no mystery to me. The universe is fully explained in all its glory to us through my god/gods. Nothing will change my mind."

Man of Science: "We still know SO little of the universe. But we are working on it. It has taken us thousands of years to develop the math and knowledge we have at this point. And what we DO know seem to work. We far, far, FAR from know everything. And if you happen to find out something new, please tell us. We'll change our ways immediately. We want to improve and expand our knowledge."

And lastly. Would you ever hear a religious person say: "I have absolutely no clue". (Or a politician for that matter....)

I'll stick to just one of your points.

As a Christian I don't KNOW everything. BUT what I do know I share. As a Christian there are some things we believe for sure because we value scripture. For instance I CAN tell you some things and processes that will happen when we die simply attributed to God's Word and what He says they are not pulled out of thin air. Also the things that we learn in life and what we learn in the spirit through prayer, intercession, revelations, fasting ect. Personally I don't speak or share about anything unless it is something I have learned and experienced as truth, if I say something I at least feel it is the truth or at worst to be evaluated and considered. If it is simply my opinion about an issue then that's all it is, I don't proclaim everything I say as fact, but to be considered and or improved upon.

And YES, I have absolutely no clue about many things lol!
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/8/2013 9:38:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 8:53:06 AM, Curaodo wrote:
We never claim no such thing, we do not know plenty.
Are there gods in the universe?
One.
What are the thoughts of those gods?
Read the Bible
What happens within a singularity/Black Hole?
IDK.
Is there an afterlife?
Yes.
What happens in the afterlife if there is one?
Read the Bible
What happened at the point of time one second before the Big Bang?
How do we know there was what science calls a Big Bang?

With the exception of the Big Bang/singularity -questions you can bet your shoes that most religious persons would know the answer to these questions with 100% certainty.
I just showed we do not claim we do know them all.
Why is that? How can they be so smug with their answers and say they know, without a shred of doubt, that they are right?
How can you be so smug that you think we do not know because you do not know?
Whereas a scientist would amazingly answer:
"I don't know"
"We have absolutely no idea"
Because you do, we should say that also?

How come so many of you thinks that they know exactly WHAT will happen when you die? How do you keep pulling out answers for everything in existence out of thin air, and proclaim they are the absolute truth?

We pull answers out of the Bible.
Help me here. As a man of the scientific method I am baffled by this display of ego.

Though you show no ego claiming you know something we do not know, which is IDK and you should not know either?
I apologize for the poor wording. I could take more time to word myself more precisely by I hope you get my point. I'd like to hear your viewpoints on this.
Let me sum up my topic:

Religious person: "I know everything. Life and death is no mystery to me.
Anyone who claims it is not a mystery to some extent is being false.
The universe is fully explained in all its glory to us through my god/gods. Nothing will change my mind."

It is not fully explained. Nothing will change my mind just as nothing seems to change yours that one cannot know.
Man of Science: "We still know SO little of the universe. But we are working on it. It has taken us thousands of years to develop the math and knowledge we have at this point. And what we DO know seem to work. We far, far, FAR from know everything. And if you happen to find out something new, please tell us. We'll change our ways immediately. We want to improve and expand our knowledge."

Read a Bible then.
And lastly. Would you ever hear a religious person say: "I have absolutely no clue". :(Or a politician for that matter....)
Why claim you have no clue, when you do have a clue?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,225
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6/8/2013 9:46:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
@harbi
It is not fully explained. Nothing will change my mind just as nothing seems to change yours
That would be a demonstration of the open mindedness of a theist....hahahahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/8/2013 9:53:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 9:46:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
@harbi
It is not fully explained. Nothing will change my mind just as nothing seems to change yours
That would be a demonstration of the open mindedness of a theist....hahahahahaha
Why would someone who knows God change their mind?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Curaodo
Posts: 54
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6/8/2013 10:14:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I hear your answer Matt. And will respectfully answer that I have heard it a hundred times before.
You are the "faith through scripture and personal experience" -type?
First off. You cannot know that scripture is fact. It was written through copies of copies of translations of copies of a selection of handpicked scrolls out of thousands of similar scrolls of stories chosen to be added to a book by VOTE, scrolls of which was interpretations of orally transmitted stories told by desert dwellers over a campfire.

You take scripture as fact? You have got to be kidding me? Do you KNOW how many personal adaptions was made to this fictional tale over such a span of time?

Second. Personal experience. I will advice you to listen to the life story of AronRa. (Yeah, yeah, here's another one of those; "He was a christian then became an atheist -stories. And you are probably as likely to check him out as I am to checking out any Atheist to Christian stories you might give me. But really. Listen to what he had to go through before he came to the logical conclusion that there are no supernatural beings/events)
What finally (I think) tilted him over on atheism (after having tried several other belief systems) was this technique he was trained in, in which you through a ritual was made to enter a psychological state in which these "personal experiences" happened a LOT.
He was trained in how to teach *others* to reach this "state". And this lead him to the conclusion that if he could reach this psychological state where you can feel as if God/Jesus/Brahma/Zeus or your dead grandmothers spirit were talking to you, then what is "personal" experience anyway?
He learned that our brain is simply an electro-chemical engine that interprets reality as best as it can through our senses, and electro-chemical stimuli to these processes can make reality blurry.

And this is my lesson to you Matt.
Start thinking about what personal experience or "feelings" really are. And why would your feelings have any say in the truth of anything anyway?
Ask yourself these questions. And don't be afraid to question Matt. The best thing I can say to you is that: "If God loves you and made your brain the way it is. He wouldn't mind you using the brain HE gave you to ask questions. He will not punish you with hell for thinking about his creation. He would most likely welcome it right? After all, he is GOD. He made the entire universe. You are just Matt. You don't pose any threat to him?" -A logical script many ex-christians used to free themselves from Yahweh's psychological terror-prison.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/8/2013 10:23:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 10:14:25 AM, Curaodo wrote:
I hear your answer Matt. And will respectfully answer that I have heard it a hundred times before.
You are the "faith through scripture and personal experience" -type?
First off. You cannot know that scripture is fact. It was written through copies of copies of translations of copies of a selection of handpicked scrolls out of thousands of similar scrolls of stories chosen to be added to a book by VOTE, scrolls of which was interpretations of orally transmitted stories told by desert dwellers over a campfire.

You take scripture as fact? You have got to be kidding me? Do you KNOW how many personal adaptions was made to this fictional tale over such a span of time?

Second. Personal experience. I will advice you to listen to the life story of AronRa. (Yeah, yeah, here's another one of those; "He was a christian then became an atheist -stories. And you are probably as likely to check him out as I am to checking out any Atheist to Christian stories you might give me. But really. Listen to what he had to go through before he came to the logical conclusion that there are no supernatural beings/events)
What finally (I think) tilted him over on atheism (after having tried several other belief systems) was this technique he was trained in, in which you through a ritual was made to enter a psychological state in which these "personal experiences" happened a LOT.
He was trained in how to teach *others* to reach this "state". And this lead him to the conclusion that if he could reach this psychological state where you can feel as if God/Jesus/Brahma/Zeus or your dead grandmothers spirit were talking to you, then what is "personal" experience anyway?
He learned that our brain is simply an electro-chemical engine that interprets reality as best as it can through our senses, and electro-chemical stimuli to these processes can make reality blurry.

And this is my lesson to you Matt.
Start thinking about what personal experience or "feelings" really are. And why would your feelings have any say in the truth of anything anyway?
Ask yourself these questions. And don't be afraid to question Matt. The best thing I can say to you is that: "If God loves you and made your brain the way it is. He wouldn't mind you using the brain HE gave you to ask questions. He will not punish you with hell for thinking about his creation. He would most likely welcome it right? After all, he is GOD. He made the entire universe. You are just Matt. You don't pose any threat to him?" -A logical script many ex-christians used to free themselves from Yahweh's psychological terror-prison.

You didn't respectfully answer nothing, garbage.

So basically you post religious questions so you can scrutinize, mock and trash the responses, good, now I know who to avoid. If you don't give a two craps about what people might say then go pick your nose, cause you're wasting folks effort, have fun.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/8/2013 10:46:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 10:14:25 AM, Curaodo wrote:
I hear your answer Matt. And will respectfully answer that I have heard it a hundred times before.
You are the "faith through scripture and personal experience" -type?
First off. You cannot know that scripture is fact. It was written through copies of copies of translations of copies of a selection of handpicked scrolls out of thousands of similar scrolls of stories chosen to be added to a book by VOTE, scrolls of which was interpretations of orally transmitted stories told by desert dwellers over a campfire.

You take scripture as fact? You have got to be kidding me? Do you KNOW how many personal adaptions was made to this fictional tale over such a span of time?

Second. Personal experience. I will advice you to listen to the life story of AronRa. (Yeah, yeah, here's another one of those; "He was a christian then became an atheist -stories. And you are probably as likely to check him out as I am to checking out any Atheist to Christian stories you might give me. But really. Listen to what he had to go through before he came to the logical conclusion that there are no supernatural beings/events)
What finally (I think) tilted him over on atheism (after having tried several other belief systems) was this technique he was trained in, in which you through a ritual was made to enter a psychological state in which these "personal experiences" happened a LOT.
He was trained in how to teach *others* to reach this "state". And this lead him to the conclusion that if he could reach this psychological state where you can feel as if God/Jesus/Brahma/Zeus or your dead grandmothers spirit were talking to you, then what is "personal" experience anyway?
He learned that our brain is simply an electro-chemical engine that interprets reality as best as it can through our senses, and electro-chemical stimuli to these processes can make reality blurry.

And this is my lesson to you Matt.
Start thinking about what personal experience or "feelings" really are. And why would your feelings have any say in the truth of anything anyway?
Ask yourself these questions. And don't be afraid to question Matt. The best thing I can say to you is that: "If God loves you and made your brain the way it is. He wouldn't mind you using the brain HE gave you to ask questions. He will not punish you with hell for thinking about his creation. He would most likely welcome it right? After all, he is GOD. He made the entire universe. You are just Matt. You don't pose any threat to him?" -A logical script many ex-christians used to free themselves from Yahweh's psychological terror-prison.

And you're shootin really low here with your generic programed accusations. I've been talking with atheists for years now and do you think you're the only one who's heard it all before?? You should get caught up some, sounds like you are just waiting to get things off your chest, hope you get all vented.
Curaodo
Posts: 54
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6/8/2013 10:56:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Woah, woah, woah! Enough with the anger already!

@haringer
At 6/8/2013 9:38:02 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 8:53:06 AM, Curaodo wrote:
We never claim no such thing, we do not know plenty.
Are there gods in the universe?
One.

You start by saying you claim no such thing. Then you claim with what appears to be 100% certainty that there ARE gods in the universe and that it is in fact ONE god.

What are the thoughts of those gods?
Read the Bible

-That was my entire point. How can you trust anything the Bible says? And yeah, I've been handed enough stories from the Bible already. And I now raise the question how you guys can just take that book seriously.

What happens within a singularity/Black Hole?
IDK.

-Nobody knows, yet. And of all, a scientist would be the first to admit.

Is there an afterlife?
Yes.

-How do you know???? HOW?!

What happens in the afterlife if there is one?
Read the Bible

-"You cannot know that scripture is fact. It was written through copies of copies of translations of copies of a selection of handpicked scrolls out of thousands of similar scrolls of stories chosen to be added to a book by VOTE, scrolls of which was interpretations of orally transmitted stories told by desert dwellers over a campfire."

What happened at the point of time one second before the Big Bang?
How do we know there was what science calls a Big Bang?

-Data from the observable universe points towards it. Astro-physicists used all the data to form a theory, whereas a theory is:
"In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that any scientist in the field is in a position to understand and either provide empirical support ("verify") or empirically contradict ("falsify") it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[2] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which is better defined by the word 'hypothesis').[3] Scientific theories are also distinguished from hypotheses, which are individual empirically testable conjectures, and scientific laws, which are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions" -Wikipedia

Said shortly. A theory is a thoroughly tested and well thought-through concept explaining how something works. A theory is accepted by the scientific community as something as close to "fact" as we are able to come. But is at any point in time open to be questioned and tested against new-found data. But to this date, NO new data points to anything that objects to the theory of the "Big Bang"-singularity.


With the exception of the Big Bang/singularity -questions you can bet your shoes that most religious persons would know the answer to these questions with 100% certainty.
I just showed we do not claim we do know them all.

-I know that. Every human is different. And many have their own thoughts on matters. The world is not black and white. But for the sake of the argument I wanted to give my opinion on something so that I could hear what someone would respond on it with.

Why is that? How can they be so smug with their answers and say they know, without a shred of doubt, that they are right?
How can you be so smug that you think we do not know because you do not know?

-"You" don't think like that. Doesn't change the fact that millions of people out there think in absolute terms.

Whereas a scientist would amazingly answer:
"I don't know"
"We have absolutely no idea"
Because you do, we should say that also?

-Saying that you don't know something when you DON'T know something is the right thing to do perhaps? Didn't your book tell you not to lie?


How come so many of you thinks that they know exactly WHAT will happen when you die? How do you keep pulling out answers for everything in existence out of thin air, and proclaim they are the absolute truth?

We pull answers out of the Bible.

-Ergo. Thin air.

Help me here. As a man of the scientific method I am baffled by this display of ego.

Though you show no ego claiming you know something we do not know, which is IDK and you should not know either?

-Sorry, you lost me. Could you rephrase that?

I apologize for the poor wording. I could take more time to word myself more precisely by I hope you get my point. I'd like to hear your viewpoints on this.
Let me sum up my topic:

Religious person: "I know everything. Life and death is no mystery to me.
Anyone who claims it is not a mystery to some extent is being false.
The universe is fully explained in all its glory to us through my god/gods. Nothing will change my mind."

It is not fully explained. Nothing will change my mind just as nothing seems to change yours that one cannot know.
Man of Science: "We still know SO little of the universe. But we are working on it. It has taken us thousands of years to develop the math and knowledge we have at this point. And what we DO know seem to work. We far, far, FAR from know everything. And if you happen to find out something new, please tell us. We'll change our ways immediately. We want to improve and expand our knowledge."

Read a Bible then.

-Please.... You can offer a better answer than that? Truly? I "have" read that Bible. It is full of absolute crazyness. Contradictions left and right. Magic all over the place. It's a fairy tail story book. It is impossible for me to take that jibberish seriously.

And lastly. Would you ever hear a religious person say: "I have absolutely no clue". :(Or a politician for that matter....)
Why claim you have no clue, when you do have a clue?

-Because you are lying to yourself. Being honest would make you say you have no clue. You have never died. Therefore you can't possibly know what happens after you die. Nobody has ever died and returned to tell the tale. And don't get me started with the tunnel vision stories of people surviving drowning/surgery/heart failure.
Fruitytree
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6/8/2013 11:05:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's not really that we know everything, but we were told a lot of things in revealed scriptures, let me answer the questions you have put in the beginning:

Are there gods in the universe?

Not in!

What are the thoughts of those gods?

Read revealed books sent to mankind in order to have an idea.

What happens within a singularity/Black Hole?

You should know better, but I recall there's a verse in Quran about it:

Literal translation:
"So I swear by the Hiding (heavenly bodies) * the running the sweeping"

Chapter 81/ Quran. verses 15-16

Is there an afterlife?

Yes according to revelations!

What happens in the afterlife if there is one?

A lot of things according to revelations.

What happened at the point of time one second before the Big Bang?

Probably God intended to make it happen! well that probably would be less than a second but well.
Harbinger
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6/8/2013 11:15:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 10:56:48 AM, Curaodo wrote:
Woah, woah, woah! Enough with the anger already!

Who is angry?
@haringer

You misspelled my name.

Are there gods in the universe?
One.

You start by saying you claim no such thing. Then you claim with what appears to be 100% certainty that there ARE gods in the universe and that it is in fact ONE god.

I called claimed we do not know everything. A God existing and He is one was not one of those things.

What are the thoughts of those gods?
Read the Bible

-That was my entire point. How can you trust anything the Bible says? And yeah, I've been handed enough stories from the Bible already. And I now raise the question how you guys can just take that book seriously.

How can you not take it seriously? Because you do not means we should not? It does not follow. There is NOTHING in the Bible that is verified?

What happens within a singularity/Black Hole?
IDK.

-Nobody knows, yet. And of all, a scientist would be the first to admit.

No, I was the first to admit it.

Is there an afterlife?
Yes.

-How do you know???? HOW?!

Well for one there is many claims of such. Second, science has suggested through experiments on people who claim such. Third, the Bible says so. Fourth, I know God.

What happens in the afterlife if there is one?
Read the Bible

-"You cannot know that scripture is fact. It was written through copies of copies of translations of copies of a selection of handpicked scrolls out of thousands of similar scrolls of stories chosen to be added to a book by VOTE, scrolls of which was interpretations of orally transmitted stories told by desert dwellers over a campfire."

What a quote. How does he know that? He doesn't, he claims it, nothing more. There so many verified facts in the Bible it is hard to keep track.

What happened at the point of time one second before the Big Bang?
How do we know there was what science calls a Big Bang?

-Data from the observable universe points towards it. Astro-physicists used all the data to form a theory, whereas a theory is:

Yes, Yes, we know there is reason to think so. In fact one can argue that the Big Bang could be evidence for God but that is not me. There is also massive evidence that the Big Bang could be wrong as well.

With the exception of the Big Bang/singularity -questions you can bet your shoes that most religious persons would know the answer to these questions with 100% certainty.
I just showed we do not claim we do know them all.

-I know that. Every human is different. And many have their own thoughts on matters. The world is not black and white. But for the sake of the argument I wanted to give my opinion on something so that I could hear what someone would respond on it with.

Thats fair.

Why is that? How can they be so smug with their answers and say they know, without a shred of doubt, that they are right?
How can you be so smug that you think we do not know because you do not know?

-"You" don't think like that. Doesn't change the fact that millions of people out there think in absolute terms.

True.

Whereas a scientist would amazingly answer:
"I don't know"
"We have absolutely no idea"
Because you do, we should say that also?

-Saying that you don't know something when you DON'T know something is the right thing to do perhaps? Didn't your book tell you not to lie?

Indeed, I agree with you. Is claiming you do not know something, when you do the right thing to do?

How come so many of you thinks that they know exactly WHAT will happen when you die? How do you keep pulling out answers for everything in existence out of thin air, and proclaim they are the absolute truth?

We pull answers out of the Bible.

-Ergo. Thin air.

Ok man. You have done little study of the Biblical evidence or you just ignore it by choice.

Help me here. As a man of the scientific method I am baffled by this display of ego.

Though you show no ego claiming you know something we do not know, which is IDK and you should not know either?

-Sorry, you lost me. Could you rephrase that?

Ok, You are doing the same thing by saying because you do not know, we should not know.

-Please.... You can offer a better answer than that? Truly? I "have" read that Bible. It is full of absolute crazyness. Contradictions left and right. Magic all over the place. It's a fairy tail story book. It is impossible for me to take that jibberish seriously.

That is your problem not ours. Stick with IDK.

And lastly. Would you ever hear a religious person say: "I have absolutely no clue". :(Or a politician for that matter....)
Why claim you have no clue, when you do have a clue?

-Because you are lying to yourself.

Inserting your opinion is not being honest here. Again, you cannot claim because you feel one way that it is true and someone who thinks or feels different is wrong. It does not follow.

Being honest would make you say you have no clue.

Being honest would be recognizing what I know and feel by my experience and not conforming to people who say different because they have not had any experience like that.

You have never died.

Well, I am alive so I haven't died, yet.

Therefore you can't possibly know what happens after you die.

That does not follow from that. Please show it does. Are you saying that a person cannot know things that have not happened yet?

Nobody has ever died and returned to tell the tale.

Jesus Christ did.

And don't get me started with the tunnel vision stories of people surviving drowning/surgery/heart failure.

Show because you dismiss them they are wrong. Kinda like tunnel vision there.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Curaodo
Posts: 54
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6/8/2013 11:27:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You didn't respectfully answer nothing, garbage.

-Ok? I apologize if you didn't feel I answered anything. True, it wasn't an answer to a question or anything like that. If you read it again, I say that I am simply "answering" to your post by saying; "I hear you, I've heard that one". Not really meaningful or anything I admit. (Ok? He's heard it before? Good for him?)
Yes, not a very meaningful "answer" or anything. But why call me "garbage"?

So basically you post religious questions so you can scrutinize, mock and trash the responses, good, now I know who to avoid. If you don't give a two craps about what people might say then go pick your nose, cause you're wasting folks effort, have fun.

-I post religious questions so that we could have a talk about something that affects so many hundreds of millions of people on this planet. And yes, you have your opinions and I have mine. But we can only "meet" through dialogue.
Scrutinize? Sure. Isn't that the fun part of philosophical arguments? Find out what is sound, and what is not?
Mock? Well no, not really. And yes, if it is truly ridiculous and void of reason and logic.
Trash responses? No. I listen to your responses and post a reply to it. And I try my best to follow my code of reason, logic, politeness and moral standing in the posts I make.
And I do "give a crap" what people say. Now you are just trying to be mean.

And you're shootin really low here with your generic programed accusations. I've been talking with atheists for years now and do you think you're the only one who's heard it all before?? You should get caught up some, sounds like you are just waiting to get things off your chest, hope you get all vented.

-Could we instead of the anger responses please try to "talk" about this?
Tell me about this programmed accusation thing. Yes, yes, the "heard it all before" thing was not meaningful and kind of rude I admit. Sorry. Bad wording, remember? "Cought up some?" what?

Ok, want to know why I'm in this forum? I'm here because religion is just wrong, just plain wrong. There are no gods, there are no supernatural events/beings (Hence the word "super-natural", if it was "natural" it would be explained by science) So yeah. There is not a SHRED of evidence for any God/gods out there. And since so many of you refuse to even ask questions why this is so, I feel it would help the Earth towards a brighter, more educated future if I gave you some starting points.

I am here because I want you all to start asking QUESTIONS, and start THINKING.

I'm not here to be rude. I'm not here to play a "militant atheist" -role. But that title is something you could perhaps easily give someone who is challenging you to start asking questions.
But it doesn't matter what you are. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, a follower of the Norse pantheon or the great and magnificent Teapot orbiting our sun. Questions should always exist in your life. You can never have enough questions. So let us start asking questions.
Any questions?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/8/2013 11:29:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Bible people who wrote the Bible didn't even know the Earth went around the sun, but I'm supposed to believe it can tell me details about the creator of the universe? The Bible couldn't even get the order of elements right, yet I'm supposed to believe it can tell me what happened after I die? I don't think so. Religion doesn't know anything accept for how to lie to people.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/8/2013 11:35:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 11:29:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
The Bible people who wrote the Bible didn't even know the Earth went around the sun

Please show that is the case.

but I'm supposed to believe it can tell me details about the creator of the universe?

You do not have to accept nothing obviously. It does not make it wrong.

The Bible couldn't even get the order of elements right

Show this.

, yet I'm supposed to believe it can tell me what happened after I die? I don't think so. Religion doesn't know anything accept for how to lie to people.

You sound bitter.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/8/2013 11:59:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 11:35:04 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:29:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
The Bible people who wrote the Bible didn't even know the Earth went around the sun

Please show that is the case.

Read your Bible.

but I'm supposed to believe it can tell me details about the creator of the universe?

You do not have to accept nothing obviously. It does not make it wrong.

The Creator of the universe only made us so we can invent cheese, as he likes cheese. You don't have to believe me, doesn't make it wrong.


The Bible couldn't even get the order of elements right

Show this.

Have you read The Bible? It says water existed before stars. This is physically impossible.


, yet I'm supposed to believe it can tell me what happened after I die? I don't think so. Religion doesn't know anything accept for how to lie to people.

You sound bitter.

So? Doesn't mean I'm wrong ;)
Harbinger
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6/8/2013 12:05:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 11:59:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:35:04 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:29:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
The Bible people who wrote the Bible didn't even know the Earth went around the sun

Please show that is the case.

Read your Bible.

I have makes no such claims and if it did you would have posted that here and now instead of saying read my Bible when you can figure I know Bible front and back. Please.

but I'm supposed to believe it can tell me details about the creator of the universe?

You do not have to accept nothing obviously. It does not make it wrong.

The Creator of the universe only made us so we can invent cheese, as he likes cheese. You don't have to believe me, doesn't make it wrong.

True. What evidence you have for that though? A book? Prophets? Witnesses? Someone who has given cheese to Him? Evidence He has come down for that cheese?

The Bible couldn't even get the order of elements right

Show this.

Have you read The Bible? It says water existed before stars. This is physically impossible.

You know that how? What a weak claim. If there is a God, water can exist before stars and science can change that. You need to read some Socrates.

, yet I'm supposed to believe it can tell me what happened after I die? I don't think so. Religion doesn't know anything accept for how to lie to people.

You sound bitter.

So? Doesn't mean I'm wrong ;)

No, it means your bitter and that is not a good state to be in. It is not healthy.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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6/8/2013 12:06:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I also get tired of people equating "Telling someone they're wrong in strong terms" with "Sounding bitter".
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Harbinger
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6/8/2013 12:10:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 12:06:57 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I also get tired of people equating "Telling someone they're wrong in strong terms" with "Sounding bitter".

He did not tell me I am wrong and neither have you. Saying it is not proving, sorry. He is bitter as you were earlier. Calling people names and such is a bitter move. He also did not deny it one bit, So much assuming was spot on there. There are many here who are bitter. It is depressing really.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bladerunner060
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6/8/2013 12:12:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 12:10:13 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 12:06:57 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I also get tired of people equating "Telling someone they're wrong in strong terms" with "Sounding bitter".

He did not tell me I am wrong and neither have you. Saying it is not proving, sorry.

Telling = saying. I didn't say "proving", did I?

He is bitter as you were earlier. Calling people names and such is a bitter move.

Seriously, and not to "sound bitter", but is English not your first language? You are having trouble with the basics of what words mean.

He also did not deny it one bit, So much assuming was spot on there. There are many here who are bitter. It is depressing really.

He doesn't have to deny it. It's a derailing tactic that doesn't address the substance of someone's arguments. It's a form of ad hominem, this idea that "I'm going to assert that you're bitter, therefore your points are invalid".
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/8/2013 12:14:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 12:05:55 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:59:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:35:04 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:29:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
The Bible people who wrote the Bible didn't even know the Earth went around the sun

Please show that is the case.

Read your Bible.

I have makes no such claims and if it did you would have posted that here and now instead of saying read my Bible when you can figure I know Bible front and back. Please.

You obviously haven't read The Bible.

"Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved." - 1 Chronicles 16:30

The world shall never move, then it cannot orbit. There are other passages two to which clearly implies the Earth has no orbit.


but I'm supposed to believe it can tell me details about the creator of the universe?

You do not have to accept nothing obviously. It does not make it wrong.

The Creator of the universe only made us so we can invent cheese, as he likes cheese. You don't have to believe me, doesn't make it wrong.

True. What evidence you have for that though? A book? Prophets? Witnesses? Someone who has given cheese to Him? Evidence He has come down for that cheese?

There is no evidence for Your God, only a 2000 year old book. I can write a book too, meaning the Cheese God has just as much evidence.


The Bible couldn't even get the order of elements right

Show this.

Have you read The Bible? It says water existed before stars. This is physically impossible.

You know that how? What a weak claim. If there is a God, water can exist before stars and science can change that. You need to read some Socrates.

You assume the laws of physics can be broken. There is no evidence of that, and it is unscientific. The Bible is a scientific abomination. I refuse to believe water existed before stars as any scientist would. I believe science, you can believe fairy tales!


, yet I'm supposed to believe it can tell me what happened after I die? I don't think so. Religion doesn't know anything accept for how to lie to people.

You sound bitter.

So? Doesn't mean I'm wrong ;)

No, it means your bitter and that is not a good state to be in. It is not healthy.

Believe in mythological fairy tales from thousands of years ago isn't healthy either.
Rational_Thinker9119
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6/8/2013 12:17:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 12:05:55 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:59:56 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:35:04 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 11:29:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
The Bible people who wrote the Bible didn't even know the Earth went around the sun

Please show that is the case.

Read your Bible.

I have makes no such claims and if it did you would have posted that here and now instead of saying read my Bible when you can figure I know Bible front and back. Please.

but I'm supposed to believe it can tell me details about the creator of the universe?

You do not have to accept nothing obviously. It does not make it wrong.

The Creator of the universe only made us so we can invent cheese, as he likes cheese. You don't have to believe me, doesn't make it wrong.

True. What evidence you have for that though? A book? Prophets? Witnesses? Someone who has given cheese to Him? Evidence He has come down for that cheese?

The Bible couldn't even get the order of elements right

Show this.

Have you read The Bible? It says water existed before stars. This is physically impossible.

You know that how? What a weak claim. If there is a God, water can exist before stars and science can change that. You need to read some Socrates.

, yet I'm supposed to believe it can tell me what happened after I die? I don't think so. Religion doesn't know anything accept for how to lie to people.

You sound bitter.

So? Doesn't mean I'm wrong ;)

No, it means your bitter and that is not a good state to be in. It is not healthy.

Right when The Bible said water existed before stars, I laughed. What a joke of a book. When I read about talking serpents, I laughed. I honestly have gotten more laughs from The Bible than an Archie comic it is so false and outrageous.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/8/2013 12:17:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 11:27:04 AM, Curaodo wrote:
You didn't respectfully answer nothing, garbage.

-Ok? I apologize if you didn't feel I answered anything. True, it wasn't an answer to a question or anything like that. If you read it again, I say that I am simply "answering" to your post by saying; "I hear you, I've heard that one". Not really meaningful or anything I admit. (Ok? He's heard it before? Good for him?)
Yes, not a very meaningful "answer" or anything. But why call me "garbage"?

So basically you post religious questions so you can scrutinize, mock and trash the responses, good, now I know who to avoid. If you don't give a two craps about what people might say then go pick your nose, cause you're wasting folks effort, have fun.

-I post religious questions so that we could have a talk about something that affects so many hundreds of millions of people on this planet. And yes, you have your opinions and I have mine. But we can only "meet" through dialogue.
Scrutinize? Sure. Isn't that the fun part of philosophical arguments? Find out what is sound, and what is not?
Mock? Well no, not really. And yes, if it is truly ridiculous and void of reason and logic.
Trash responses? No. I listen to your responses and post a reply to it. And I try my best to follow my code of reason, logic, politeness and moral standing in the posts I make.
And I do "give a crap" what people say. Now you are just trying to be mean.

And you're shootin really low here with your generic programed accusations. I've been talking with atheists for years now and do you think you're the only one who's heard it all before?? You should get caught up some, sounds like you are just waiting to get things off your chest, hope you get all vented.

-Could we instead of the anger responses please try to "talk" about this?
Tell me about this programmed accusation thing. Yes, yes, the "heard it all before" thing was not meaningful and kind of rude I admit. Sorry. Bad wording, remember? "Cought up some?" what?

Ok, want to know why I'm in this forum? I'm here because religion is just wrong, just plain wrong. There are no gods, there are no supernatural events/beings (Hence the word "super-natural", if it was "natural" it would be explained by science) So yeah. There is not a SHRED of evidence for any God/gods out there. And since so many of you refuse to even ask questions why this is so, I feel it would help the Earth towards a brighter, more educated future if I gave you some starting points.

I am here because I want you all to start asking QUESTIONS, and start THINKING.

I'm not here to be rude. I'm not here to play a "militant atheist" -role. But that title is something you could perhaps easily give someone who is challenging you to start asking questions.
But it doesn't matter what you are. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, a follower of the Norse pantheon or the great and magnificent Teapot orbiting our sun. Questions should always exist in your life. You can never have enough questions. So let us start asking questions.
Any questions?

1. You're what they call a troll....... and you admit it here. I've read a handful of your posts and comments. You are not here to share and to reason or find truth, you have an agenda, go badger someone else.

2. To say that I or any believer does not like to ask questions is a flat out assertion. That has to be one of the most immature things I have heard, and I have heard it many times. What a real shame you have such preconceived ideas.
Harbinger
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6/8/2013 12:19:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 12:12:09 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 12:10:13 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 12:06:57 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I also get tired of people equating "Telling someone they're wrong in strong terms" with "Sounding bitter".

He did not tell me I am wrong and neither have you. Saying it is not proving, sorry.

Telling = saying. I didn't say "proving", did I?

I typed that wrong, sorry.

He is bitter as you were earlier. Calling people names and such is a bitter move.

Seriously, and not to "sound bitter", but is English not your first language? You are having trouble with the basics of what words mean.

There you go. Instead of discussing you insult and attack, no english is not my first language matter of fact(Spanish is) but is that important? You know what I am saying. You show that I made a mistake by being nice and talking back to after I said I wouldnt. Wont happen again.

He also did not deny it one bit, So much assuming was spot on there. There are many here who are bitter. It is depressing really.

He doesn't have to deny it. It's a derailing tactic that doesn't address the substance of someone's arguments. It's a form of ad hominem, this idea that "I'm going to assert that you're bitter, therefore your points are invalid".

I never claimed his points were invalid and it does not follow of such. I was making an observation. I even stated he was right in some areas but people do not see that. They are wolves looking to attack. Good day and do not address me again because I will not talk back.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
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6/8/2013 12:22:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 12:17:10 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

Right when The Bible said water existed before stars, I laughed. What a joke of a book. When I read about talking serpents, I laughed. I honestly have gotten more laughs from The Bible than an Archie comic it is so false and outrageous.

Can you honestly sit there and say the physical experience is all there is to life and creation? Science cannot even say that, at least they are honest about that. Even science has good evidence there maybe our dimensions. Have you ever thought that maybe that may play a role in those stories that you laugh at?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/8/2013 12:26:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
IMO the bible was written by a few dudes looking around the room, thinking about whatever they could that might appeal to man: women can't be slutty, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, no mocking bald men, no licking each others genitals like dogs do (homophobia - actually linked to higher sexual arousal around homosexuality), and then there's just not one single thing in there from a woman's point of view, and I know they wrote women off as beneath men pretty much, but they're only trying to cover up failing the Bechdel test like everyone else. You'd think God at least would pass the Bechdel test.
Rational_Thinker9119
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6/8/2013 12:27:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 12:22:31 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 12:17:10 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

Right when The Bible said water existed before stars, I laughed. What a joke of a book. When I read about talking serpents, I laughed. I honestly have gotten more laughs from The Bible than an Archie comic it is so false and outrageous.

Can you honestly sit there and say the physical experience is all there is to life and creation?

I did not say that, did I?

Science cannot even say that, at least they are honest about that.

I never said there couldn't be anything more to physical reality. I am just saying I believe science. Oxygen molecules can only come from the nuclear reactions within stars. This means stars had to exist before water because water has oxygen (H20). The people of The Bible did not know that, which is why there made up stories were believed for so long. However, I cannot believe in science and believe in The Bible at the same time, because The Bible says way too many things were are scientifically false.

Even science has good evidence there maybe our dimensions. Have you ever thought that maybe that may play a role in those stories that you laugh at?

No. They probably play no role with regards to The Bible. This is because The Bible is a scientific abomination, and the extra-dimension prediction is based on science.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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6/8/2013 12:27:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 12:19:14 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 12:12:09 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 12:10:13 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/8/2013 12:06:57 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I also get tired of people equating "Telling someone they're wrong in strong terms" with "Sounding bitter".

He did not tell me I am wrong and neither have you. Saying it is not proving, sorry.

Telling = saying. I didn't say "proving", did I?

I typed that wrong, sorry.

He is bitter as you were earlier. Calling people names and such is a bitter move.

Seriously, and not to "sound bitter", but is English not your first language? You are having trouble with the basics of what words mean.

There you go. Instead of discussing you insult and attack, no english is not my first language matter of fact(Spanish is) but is that important? You know what I am saying. You show that I made a mistake by being nice and talking back to after I said I wouldnt. Wont happen again.

Oversensitive much?

And no, I dont' know what you're saying, because you're misusing the word "bitter". And now you're simply tone trolling. I was pretty nice; I could have just pointed out you're misusing the word and called you an idiot, but your frequent misuse of words (see above...I'm really unclear how you "mistyped" that) indicated, to me, that English wasn't your first language. That's not a dig, and you admit it's a correct assessment.

Now I know that you're simply not as likely to understand the definitions and/or contextual meanings of words, sot hat rather than simply telling you you're wrong, as you are in equating calling someone a name with being bitter, I can try to ask you what you actually mean.

Threatening not to talk to me, because (to the best I can determine) it annoys you that I'm right, is petty and childish. Which you're free to be, but don't expect anyone to see that as anything but what it is: a petulant and childish move by someone who seems to think that any disagreement is rudeness.

He also did not deny it one bit, So much assuming was spot on there. There are many here who are bitter. It is depressing really.

He doesn't have to deny it. It's a derailing tactic that doesn't address the substance of someone's arguments. It's a form of ad hominem, this idea that "I'm going to assert that you're bitter, therefore your points are invalid".

I never claimed his points were invalid and it does not follow of such.

Really? It seems to be your "go-to" insult, particularly when you aren't addressing an argument.

I was making an observation. I even stated he was right in some areas but people do not see that. They are wolves looking to attack. Good day and do not address me again because I will not talk back.

You don't own this place; it's a public forum. Post in a public forum, the public responds. Perhaps if you weren't being a petulant child (and yes, now I AM mildly insulting you), you would address the merits of the things people say to you, rather than trying to pretend you've been wounded. Put the fainting couch away.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Curaodo
Posts: 54
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6/8/2013 12:28:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Harbinger, your last post asks for a lot of sources that I don't have the time to provide you with at this time.
What we're getting into here is a VAST subject, with a vast number of sources. We could go on for months here. But I've already been on here for some hours now, got to do laundry and stuff too ha ha ha.

And I don't know if I can dig them all up. Theologians and historians have worked on the Bible for centuries. And they have found truth mixed with fiction mixed with political agenda after political agenda weaved into that book. The scrolls of the Bible was gathered into that book in order to create a system of controlling the masses of the late Roman empire.

Naturally, as you say, and I agree with you. This is nothing but personal "claims" unless I back it up with a source. But as I said, I lack the time to provide those. You "could" google it on your own tho :)

It is well known history that Constantine the Great was the first roman emperor to convert to christianity. And under his rule, a the roman empire adopted the christian ways. Before his time, christians were severely oppressed, but he made the empire adopt their ways in order to CREATE order. Religion makes masses of people easier to control. So in Constantinople they did a lot of things like "agreeing on the holy trinity by a show of hands" (Yeah....I'm not kidding you. *Show of hands*. We have historical texts explaining the political movements recorded in detail)

Your Bible was written by humans Harbinger. Sorry to bring it to you. They handpicked a few scrolls that told a story that they preferred. A story that would make people docile and resistant to thoughts of violent rebellion. The church was established, and has since proven to become the greatest and most successful propaganda campaign in human history.
The success of the church was so great because they assimilated the cultures they came over, instead of overrunning them. Instead of denying people their cultural spring feasts, midwinter feasts, rites and rituals, they just assimilated the old rites and rituals into the new ones. Slowly, through generation over generation of indoctrination, the people forgot "why" they celebrated Easter/Eostre/Ostara

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://upload.wikimedia.org...

"In her various forms, she is a "Spring-like fertility goddess" associated with dawn, and is connected to numerous traditions and deities indigenous to Northern Europe" -Wikipedia

Easter also have roots to Ishtar.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"The East Semitic Akkadian, Assyrian and Babylonian goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex" -Wiki

Ever wondered what on earth rabbits and eggs and the color yellow has to do with Jesus? We are celebrating a multitude of customs handed down through our culture possibly as far back as the stone ages.

What about X-mas/Christmas/Jul/Yule/Yuletide?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Terms with an etymological equivalent to Yule are used in the Nordic countries for Christmas with its religious rites, but also for the holidays of this season. Yule is also used to a lesser extent in English-speaking countries to refer to Christmas. Customs such as the Yule log, Yule goat, Yule boar, Yule singing, and others stem from Yule. A number of Neopagans have introduced their own rites." -Wiki

Don't get me started on all the "so called" christian celebrations we have. If you start looking into them, you'll find EXTREMELY little "Jesus" in there. And yet we don't think of them as anything "but" Jesus-celebrations. Why? The church was good at what it was made to do, indoctrinating entire continents by using their own cultural habbits against them. Ever wondered why we have more than 41 THOUSAND, I repeat 41,000 christian denominations in the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

As good as the church was to assimilating cultures, they couldn't avoid the massive gap of inconsistencies that would create.

I'll leave it there for now. Got do go do some other stuff. Talk to you later.

PS: Didn't have time to give you anything but Wiki today. Wikipedia should not be trusted as 100% fact. But as a guidebook. Anyone could write an article in Wiki. But that "anyone" is often a learned professor/historian/biologist/physicist/botanic/theologian you name it. Check the sources on wikipedia to know more about how accurate it is. Still 95% accuracy is still acceptable right?