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"God works in mysterious ways" is no answer

ATHOS
Posts: 123
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6/9/2013 8:40:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yesterday I was at a local park with some friends, and this guy walks up to us and starts preaching about Jesus, God and the devil. So, I asked him if God knows everything, and naturally he says "yes". Then I said well if God knows everything and if the devil is real then God is ultimately responsible for all of the terrible things that are attributed to the devil.Then I presented him with an analogy. What if there was a serial killer in the community and law enforcement knew where the killer was, in fact they knew exactly when, where and who this killer was about to strike. Who is responsible? And his answer was....."God works in mysterious ways" .
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/9/2013 9:13:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
God made/allows the devil to bring us away from God. God wants us to be with God.

Those two ideas are mutually exclusive. Either God doesn't want certain people (those who'd be led astray) to be with God, or there is no devil. Or no God.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/9/2013 9:13:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?
NO
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/9/2013 9:14:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 8:40:22 AM, ATHOS wrote:
Yesterday I was at a local park with some friends, and this guy walks up to us and starts preaching about Jesus, God and the devil. So, I asked him if God knows everything, and naturally he says "yes". Then I said well if God knows everything and if the devil is real then God is ultimately responsible for all of the terrible things that are attributed to the devil.Then I presented him with an analogy. What if there was a serial killer in the community and law enforcement knew where the killer was, in fact they knew exactly when, where and who this killer was about to strike. Who is responsible? And his answer was....."God works in mysterious ways" .

The killer is to blame obviously.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
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Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:19:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:13:06 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
God made/allows the devil to bring us away from God. God wants us to be with God.

Those two ideas are mutually exclusive. Either God doesn't want certain people (those who'd be led astray) to be with God, or there is no devil. Or no God.

Note that the devil can't force anyone to follow him!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:20:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.

Yes he's all knowing and we are not, He's Just and we would complain.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 9:21:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why do people not understand that their god is all-knowing, or do they just not understand the implications of such a thing?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 9:24:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:20:44 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.

Yes he's all knowing and we are not, He's Just and we would complain.

He'd know the result without the devil, why make us live our lives as a test? He could impart the knowledge to us. Since when was he just and we complain anyway, since when has God cared about that?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/9/2013 9:25:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:20:44 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.

Yes he's all knowing and we are not, He's Just and we would complain.
It actually says in the book you worship that your god deliberately creates people and jinn to go to hell. What an idiot.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:32:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:24:23 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:20:44 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.

Yes he's all knowing and we are not, He's Just and we would complain.

He'd know the result without the devil, why make us live our lives as a test? He could impart the knowledge to us. Since when was he just and we complain anyway, since when has God cared about that?

Since he does, Are you trying to understand him ? He just is as he is.Why wouldn't he after all he does what he wills But he just happens to be Just.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:33:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:21:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Why do people not understand that their god is all-knowing, or do they just not understand the implications of such a thing?

Are the implications : God shouldn't do anything because he knows the result ?!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:34:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:25:11 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:20:44 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.

Yes he's all knowing and we are not, He's Just and we would complain.
It actually says in the book you worship that your god deliberately creates people and jinn to go to hell. What an idiot.

Quotes please!! I don't worship the book, but the God!
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/9/2013 9:38:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:34:57 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:25:11 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:20:44 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.

Yes he's all knowing and we are not, He's Just and we would complain.
It actually says in the book you worship that your god deliberately creates people and jinn to go to hell. What an idiot.

Quotes please!! I don't worship the book, but the God!
That sounds very unmuslim like!
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/9/2013 9:39:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:19:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:13:06 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
God made/allows the devil to bring us away from God. God wants us to be with God.

Those two ideas are mutually exclusive. Either God doesn't want certain people (those who'd be led astray) to be with God, or there is no devil. Or no God.

Note that the devil can't force anyone to follow him!

I ail to see the relevance.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:43:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:39:38 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:19:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:13:06 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
God made/allows the devil to bring us away from God. God wants us to be with God.

Those two ideas are mutually exclusive. Either God doesn't want certain people (those who'd be led astray) to be with God, or there is no devil. Or no God.

Note that the devil can't force anyone to follow him!

I ail to see the relevance.

Just a note to keep in mind.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:45:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:38:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:34:57 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:25:11 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:20:44 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.

Yes he's all knowing and we are not, He's Just and we would complain.
It actually says in the book you worship that your god deliberately creates people and jinn to go to hell. What an idiot.

Quotes please!! I don't worship the book, but the God!
That sounds very unmuslim like!

I don't recall a verse saying what you suggest ,so you are welcome to support your claim or remove it.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 9:51:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:33:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:21:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Why do people not understand that their god is all-knowing, or do they just not understand the implications of such a thing?

Are the implications : God shouldn't do anything because he knows the result ?!

There's no reason to take the long way around to get a result.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 9:53:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:51:27 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:33:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:21:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Why do people not understand that their god is all-knowing, or do they just not understand the implications of such a thing?

Are the implications : God shouldn't do anything because he knows the result ?!

There's no reason to take the long way around to get a result.

There is no reason for rabbits, there is for God, and behold! He does what he wills!
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/9/2013 9:55:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:53:39 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:51:27 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:33:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:21:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Why do people not understand that their god is all-knowing, or do they just not understand the implications of such a thing?

Are the implications : God shouldn't do anything because he knows the result ?!

There's no reason to take the long way around to get a result.

There is no reason for rabbits, there is for God, and behold! He does what he wills!
What is the reason for god?
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 9:56:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:32:08 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:24:23 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:20:44 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:18:44 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:08:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
God doesn't only know about the devil my dear!!

He created him in the first place!! and he actually is God tool to test the belief of people.

Satan is our enemy, he is a creature like us, but he doesn't accept that God made us superior to his kind, God warned us about this enemy , who can't actually force us to sin but can attract us to sins.

Does this makes more sense to you ?

Why does he need a creature to test us? He's all-knowing.

Yes he's all knowing and we are not, He's Just and we would complain.

He'd know the result without the devil, why make us live our lives as a test? He could impart the knowledge to us. Since when was he just and we complain anyway, since when has God cared about that?

Since he does, Are you trying to understand him ? He just is as he is.Why wouldn't he after all he does what he wills But he just happens to be Just.

Lmfao. He does things, because, and he is just, because. Classic non-answer.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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6/9/2013 10:18:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:14:46 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/9/2013 8:40:22 AM, ATHOS wrote:
Yesterday I was at a local park with some friends, and this guy walks up to us and starts preaching about Jesus, God and the devil. So, I asked him if God knows everything, and naturally he says "yes". Then I said well if God knows everything and if the devil is real then God is ultimately responsible for all of the terrible things that are attributed to the devil.Then I presented him with an analogy. What if there was a serial killer in the community and law enforcement knew where the killer was, in fact they knew exactly when, where and who this killer was about to strike. Who is responsible? And his answer was....."God works in mysterious ways" .

The killer is to blame obviously.

I think you just made his head explode...lol
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 10:21:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 10:18:34 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:14:46 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/9/2013 8:40:22 AM, ATHOS wrote:
Yesterday I was at a local park with some friends, and this guy walks up to us and starts preaching about Jesus, God and the devil. So, I asked him if God knows everything, and naturally he says "yes". Then I said well if God knows everything and if the devil is real then God is ultimately responsible for all of the terrible things that are attributed to the devil.Then I presented him with an analogy. What if there was a serial killer in the community and law enforcement knew where the killer was, in fact they knew exactly when, where and who this killer was about to strike. Who is responsible? And his answer was....."God works in mysterious ways" .

The killer is to blame obviously.

I think you just made his head explode...lol

And the police have no blame at all?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/9/2013 10:22:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:55:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:53:39 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:51:27 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:33:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:21:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Why do people not understand that their god is all-knowing, or do they just not understand the implications of such a thing?

Are the implications : God shouldn't do anything because he knows the result ?!

There's no reason to take the long way around to get a result.

There is no reason for rabbits, there is for God, and behold! He does what he wills!
What is the reason for god?

If you know the reason, would that make you believe, or you're asking to kill time ?!Does it depend on his purpose ? He created us to worship him but knows a good part of us are evil, so he intends to throw them in Hell, but before he does, he proves to us that his decision is Just. So on the day of judgement the people who go to Hell would know they deserve it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/9/2013 10:28:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 10:22:47 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:55:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:53:39 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:51:27 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:33:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:21:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Why do people not understand that their god is all-knowing, or do they just not understand the implications of such a thing?

Are the implications : God shouldn't do anything because he knows the result ?!

There's no reason to take the long way around to get a result.

There is no reason for rabbits, there is for God, and behold! He does what he wills!
What is the reason for god?

If you know the reason, would that make you believe, or you're asking to kill time ?!Does it depend on his purpose ? He created us to worship him but knows a good part of us are evil, so he intends to throw them in Hell, but before he does, he proves to us that his decision is Just. So on the day of judgement the people who go to Hell would know they deserve it.

Are you claiming that that is your gods reason to exist?
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 10:30:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 10:22:47 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:55:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:53:39 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:51:27 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:33:28 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/9/2013 9:21:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Why do people not understand that their god is all-knowing, or do they just not understand the implications of such a thing?

Are the implications : God shouldn't do anything because he knows the result ?!

There's no reason to take the long way around to get a result.

There is no reason for rabbits, there is for God, and behold! He does what he wills!
What is the reason for god?

If you know the reason, would that make you believe, or you're asking to kill time ?!Does it depend on his purpose ? He created us to worship him but knows a good part of us are evil, so he intends to throw them in Hell, but before he does, he proves to us that his decision is Just. So on the day of judgement the people who go to Hell would know they deserve it.

He created the good part of us who are "evil" and nobody deserves to go to Hell. So he wants active worship of him from us ey? Why's that then?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/9/2013 10:38:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"God works in mysterious ways is no answer".........Agreed.
Ya know I've never said that, but you're right I have heard it. However just because some religious human doesn't have all answers does it mean there isn't one? Maybe the person saying it is just not sure and thinks that somehow God may do things in a different way in a way that we may not see or comprehend, cop out?...could be IDK but I think every believer has the freedom to ask and pray and to question things, especially to God.

You have to remember that being a genius is not a requirement for salvation lol, some people are simply content with what they have with their beliefs......the Bible, church, being saved ect. they have no desire to expand their potential. All believers are at different levels of understanding and learning but all share the same desire to reach out or express their beliefs, unfortunately for the secular that includes ALL types of people not just brilliant ones lol so don't be discouraged by the ignorant, ALL are welcome to salvation.
Talib.ul-Ilm
Posts: 203
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6/9/2013 10:45:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
God knew from the moment He created the universe all that would occur, however this doesn't mean that He is making you do anything. He simply created the potential for you to have free will. You make the decisions to do such and such, He allowed you to have the potential to do such and such.

You're still doing what you're willing yourself to do, God just knows what will happen and observes it as it happens.

Imagine if you will, that you're a farmer. You plant the seeds for your crop. You know that some will grow big and strong, some will die out before reaching maturity, and some will produce less yield than others, etc. Just because you know what's going to happen with your crop doesn't mean you're not going to plant the seeds.