Total Posts:103|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

I am more of an Yahwist

question4u
Posts: 492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament
Harbinger
Posts: 778
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 7:36:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

Well Jesus most certainly existed and almost all historians would agree. Being God is not agreed but His existence is. Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 7:59:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 7:36:28 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

Well Jesus most certainly existed and almost all historians would agree. Being God is not agreed but His existence is. Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

I have a question. Do you believe in common descent (Evolution)? It is relevant to the discussion, and I will explain why after you respond.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 8:03:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What: At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

What for Islam ?My creed is like yours, I believe in one God,no partners, He is the only God, but believe in Jesus and Mohamed too as Messiah, and Prophet respectively!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 8:04:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 7:59:28 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/10/2013 7:36:28 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

Well Jesus most certainly existed and almost all historians would agree. Being God is not agreed but His existence is. Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

I have a question. Do you believe in common descent (Evolution)? It is relevant to the discussion, and I will explain why after you respond.

He shouldn't , he should be a creationist like me :D
question4u
Posts: 492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 9:17:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 7:36:28 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

Well Jesus most certainly existed and almost all historians would agree. Being God is not agreed but His existence is. Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

Well historian christan was or josephus , also which jesus? Jesus bar ananus, jesus barabbas or should I keep going, yes real false delievers came and even true delivers freeing there people such as joshua aka jesus of the old testament , but non were god men, which historian other then christans claim that the creator came to earth as a baby then died then rose again other those that believe in ra, apollo, and the list goes on many so called gods came as men or even men became gods and then resurrected , have their on historians but who else seen it or heard about it wrote about it but still refused
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 9:31:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 9:17:53 PM, question4u wrote:
At 6/10/2013 7:36:28 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

Well Jesus most certainly existed and almost all historians would agree. Being God is not agreed but His existence is. Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

Well historian christan was or josephus , also which jesus? Jesus bar ananus, jesus barabbas or should I keep going, yes real false delievers came and even true delivers freeing there people such as joshua aka jesus of the old testament , but non were god men, which historian other then christans claim that the creator came to earth as a baby then died then rose again other those that believe in ra, apollo, and the list goes on many so called gods came as men or even men became gods and then resurrected , have their on historians but who else seen it or heard about it wrote about it but still refused
How many historians witnessed A&E or Moses or the Exodus from Egypt?
question4u
Posts: 492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 10:26:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 8:03:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
What: At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

What for Islam ?My creed is like yours, I believe in one God,no partners, He is the only God, but believe in Jesus and Mohamed too as Messiah, and Prophet respectively!

my creed and yours is totally off, you believe in two godman or holy men, mohamed which quran is not ashame to tell his dirt and what he did, I believe mohamed followed the essene way or the nazarene way, which is not my way....more towards gnosticism.

rational thinker:Impossible for me to understand the life and creation around me, man will never understand that its true depths, starting with him or her very self, but evolution can be explained you said in another post in a lab, but please show me a video or live footage of evolution occuring, or do I have to take it by faith, or is evolution just another religion stolen from another to explain to unseen with science and say that you have facts, funny, a come back could be very simple with the normal eye we can not see how complex Yahweh creation is but with the science eye you can see some of his wonderful secrets and works another vision for those who dont believe...

bulproof: if you are a christian I will not answer this because your very Jesus believed in moses , and must of had a lot of proof, but if you are a gnostic that believed moses followed after a wrong god, then I can give you many historians and other religions veiw on moses and the exodus,
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2013 10:52:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 10:26:30 PM, question4u wrote:
At 6/10/2013 8:03:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
What: At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

What for Islam ?My creed is like yours, I believe in one God,no partners, He is the only God, but believe in Jesus and Mohamed too as Messiah, and Prophet respectively!

my creed and yours is totally off, you believe in two godman or holy men, mohamed which quran is not ashame to tell his dirt and what he did, I believe mohamed followed the essene way or the nazarene way, which is not my way....more towards gnosticism.

rational thinker:Impossible for me to understand the life and creation around me, man will never understand that its true depths, starting with him or her very self, but evolution can be explained you said in another post in a lab, but please show me a video or live footage of evolution occuring, or do I have to take it by faith, or is evolution just another religion stolen from another to explain to unseen with science and say that you have facts, funny, a come back could be very simple with the normal eye we can not see how complex Yahweh creation is but with the science eye you can see some of his wonderful secrets and works another vision for those who dont believe...

bulproof: if you are a christian I will not answer this because your very Jesus believed in moses , and must of had a lot of proof, but if you are a gnostic that believed moses followed after a wrong god, then I can give you many historians and other religions veiw on moses and the exodus,
D: none of the above.
Please give me a credible historian's view on the Exodus.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 1:21:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 7:59:28 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/10/2013 7:36:28 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

Well Jesus most certainly existed and almost all historians would agree. Being God is not agreed but His existence is. Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

I have a question. Do you believe in common descent (Evolution)? It is relevant to the discussion, and I will explain why after you respond.

I'll bite. Yes.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 3:04:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 7:59:28 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

I have a question. Do you believe in common descent (Evolution)? It is relevant to the discussion, and I will explain why after you respond.

Of course we descend from God, thats common.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 10:26:30 PM, question4u wrote:
At 6/10/2013 8:03:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
What: At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

What for Islam ?My creed is like yours, I believe in one God,no partners, He is the only God, but believe in Jesus and Mohamed too as Messiah, and Prophet respectively!

my creed and yours is totally off, you believe in two godman or holy men, mohamed which quran is not ashame to tell his dirt and what he did, I believe mohamed followed the essene way or the nazarene way, which is not my way....more towards gnosticism.

Do you speak out of knowledge or your heard rumours ?! If you want to seek knowledge the first tool shall be avoid judgement ..Did you read these:Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him... from verse 144/ chapter 3/ Quran

Narrated Abu
Huraira:

"A man from the
Muslims and a man from the Jews quarrelled, and the Muslim said, "By Him
Who gave superiority to Muhammad over all the people!" The Jew said,
"By Him Who gave superiority to Moses over all the people!' On that the
Muslim lifted his hand and slapped the Jew. The Jew went to Allah's Messenger () and
informed him of all that had happened between him and the Muslim. The Prophet () said,
"Do not give me superiority over Moses, for the people will fall
unconscious on the Day of Resurrection, I will be the first to regain
consciousness and behold, Moses will be standing there, holding the side of the
Throne. I will not know whether he has been one of those who have fallen
unconscious and then regained consciousness before me, or if he has been one of
those exempted by Allah (from falling unconscious)." (See Hadith No. 524,
Vol. 8)

Whoever takes our prophet for a deity has gone astray according to Quran.

look here if you ever read it:

"In a response, Maimonides discusses the relationship between Judaism and Islam:

The Ishmaelites are not at all idolaters; [idolatry] has long been severed from
their mouths and hearts; and they attribute to God a proper unity, a unity
concerning which there is no doubt. And because they lie about us, and falsely
attribute to us the statement that God has a son, is no reason for us to lie
about them and say that they are idolaters ... And should anyone say that the
house that they honor [the Kaaba] is a house of idolatry and an idol is hidden
within it, which their ancestors used to worship, then what of it? The hearts
of those who bow down toward it today are [directed] only toward Heaven ...
[Regarding] the Ishmaelites today " idolatry has been severed from the mouths
of all of them [including] women and children. Their error and foolishness is
in other things which cannot be put into writing because of the renegades and
wicked among Israel [i.e., apostates]. But as regards the unity of God they
have no error at all.[63]"

Don't ruin yourself for what you hear from twisted sources..
Harbinger
Posts: 778
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 4:17:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Fruity, you need to really research for faith.

Islam and Muhammad came from Kabaa. It is a Arabic version of the Kaballah. This is the same thing as Catholicism. Both came from Jewish Mysticism which is sorcery and witchcraft. Feel free to research this.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 4:19:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Let me ask you Fruity, Islam is waiting on a Messiah type figure right?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 4:44:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 9:17:53 PM, question4u wrote:
At 6/10/2013 7:36:28 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

Well Jesus most certainly existed and almost all historians would agree. Being God is not agreed but His existence is. Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

Well historian christan was or josephus , also which jesus? Jesus bar ananus, jesus barabbas or should I keep going, yes real false delievers came and even true delivers freeing there people such as joshua aka jesus of the old testament , but non were god men, which historian other then christans claim that the creator came to earth as a baby then died then rose again other those that believe in ra, apollo, and the list goes on many so called gods came as men or even men became gods and then resurrected , have their on historians but who else seen it or heard about it wrote about it but still refused

Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 6:04:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 4:17:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Fruity, you need to really research for faith.

Islam and Muhammad came from Kabaa. It is a Arabic version of the Kaballah. This is the same thing as Catholicism. Both came from Jewish Mysticism which is sorcery and witchcraft. Feel free to research this.

Sorcery is forbidden in Islam dude, I don't say there are no "muslims" who practice it, but the practice is condemned by Islam.I shall send you an interesting book for you to read about all this.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 6:12:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:04:47 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:17:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Fruity, you need to really research for faith.

Islam and Muhammad came from Kabaa. It is a Arabic version of the Kaballah. This is the same thing as Catholicism. Both came from Jewish Mysticism which is sorcery and witchcraft. Feel free to research this.

Sorcery is forbidden in Islam dude, I don't say there are no "muslims" who practice it, but the practice is condemned by Islam.I shall send you an interesting book for you to read about all this.

Well fruity, Kabaa is from Jewish mysticism and that is sorcery. Of course it will tell you not to practice sorcery other than the one it teaches.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 7:01:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:12:27 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:04:47 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:17:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Fruity, you need to really research for faith.

Islam and Muhammad came from Kabaa. It is a Arabic version of the Kaballah. This is the same thing as Catholicism. Both came from Jewish Mysticism which is sorcery and witchcraft. Feel free to research this.

Sorcery is forbidden in Islam dude, I don't say there are no "muslims" who practice it, but the practice is condemned by Islam.I shall send you an interesting book for you to read about all this.

Well fruity, Kabaa is from Jewish mysticism and that is sorcery. Of course it will tell you not to practice sorcery other than the one it teaches.

Look Quran is open in front of the world, and authentic hadeeths are open, there are no secret doctrines in Islam, if any Islamic group hides some knowledge, just avoid them and know they are astray from the true Islamic call .

According to Quran, here where sorcery came from (not sure if originally or partly):

Verily We have revealed unto thee clear tokens, and only miscreants will disbelieve in them. (99) Is it ever so that when they make a covenant a party of them set it aside? The truth is, most of them believe not. (100) And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not, (101) And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon. Solomon disbelieved not; but the devils disbelieved, teaching mankind magic and that which was revealed to the two angels in Babel, Harut and Marut. Nor did they (the two angels) teach it to anyone till they had said: We are only a temptation, therefore disbelieve not (in the guidance of Allah). And from these two (angles) people learn that by which they cause division between man and wife; but they injure thereby no-one save by Allah's leave. And they learn that which harmeth them and profiteth them not. And surely they do know that he who trafficketh therein will have no (happy) portion in the Hereafter; and surely evil is the price for which they sell their souls, if they but knew. (102) And if they had believed and kept from evil, a recompense from Allah would be better, if they only knew. (103) Quran/ Chapter 2
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 7:03:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:12:27 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:04:47 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:17:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Fruity, you need to really research for faith.

Islam and Muhammad came from Kabaa. It is a Arabic version of the Kaballah. This is the same thing as Catholicism. Both came from Jewish Mysticism which is sorcery and witchcraft. Feel free to research this.

Sorcery is forbidden in Islam dude, I don't say there are no "muslims" who practice it, but the practice is condemned by Islam.I shall send you an interesting book for you to read about all this.

Well fruity, Kabaa is from Jewish mysticism and that is sorcery. Of course it will tell you not to practice sorcery other than the one it teaches.

Also the word Kaaba is from the word Kaab (cube). it isn't related to the Kabaala, but it's true that some "islam" sects maybe related to what you say.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 7:05:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:01:06 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:12:27 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:04:47 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:17:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Fruity, you need to really research for faith.

Islam and Muhammad came from Kabaa. It is a Arabic version of the Kaballah. This is the same thing as Catholicism. Both came from Jewish Mysticism which is sorcery and witchcraft. Feel free to research this.

Sorcery is forbidden in Islam dude, I don't say there are no "muslims" who practice it, but the practice is condemned by Islam.I shall send you an interesting book for you to read about all this.

Well fruity, Kabaa is from Jewish mysticism and that is sorcery. Of course it will tell you not to practice sorcery other than the one it teaches.

Look Quran is open in front of the world, and authentic hadeeths are open, there are no secret doctrines in Islam, if any Islamic group hides some knowledge, just avoid them and know they are astray from the true Islamic call .

According to Quran, here where sorcery came from (not sure if originally or partly):

Verily We have revealed unto thee clear tokens, and only miscreants will disbelieve in them. (99) Is it ever so that when they make a covenant a party of them set it aside? The truth is, most of them believe not. (100) And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not, (101) And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon. Solomon disbelieved not; but the devils disbelieved, teaching mankind magic and that which was revealed to the two angels in Babel, Harut and Marut. Nor did they (the two angels) teach it to anyone till they had said: We are only a temptation, therefore disbelieve not (in the guidance of Allah). And from these two (angles) people learn that by which they cause division between man and wife; but they injure thereby no-one save by Allah's leave. And they learn that which harmeth them and profiteth them not. And surely they do know that he who trafficketh therein will have no (happy) portion in the Hereafter; and surely evil is the price for which they sell their souls, if they but knew. (102) And if they had believed and kept from evil, a recompense from Allah would be better, if they only knew. (103) Quran/ Chapter 2

Sorcery includes dealing with devils. Remind us the story of how Muhammad was revealed the Koran!?!?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 7:34:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:05:07 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Sorcery includes dealing with devils. Remind us the story of how Muhammad was revealed the Koran!?!?

The full story authentically reported from Aishah:

Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Messenger () was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright daylight, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food likewise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet () replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet () added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists), created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Messenger () returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Messenger () described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Messenger () asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

Reference":"Sahih al-Bukhari 3
In-book reference":"Book 1, Hadith 3
Harbinger
Posts: 778
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 7:41:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:34:11 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:05:07 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Sorcery includes dealing with devils. Remind us the story of how Muhammad was revealed the Koran!?!?

The full story authentically reported from Aishah:

Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Messenger () was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright daylight, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food likewise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet () replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet () added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists), created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Messenger () returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Messenger () described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Messenger () asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

Reference":"Sahih al-Bukhari 3
In-book reference":"Book 1, Hadith 3

Indeed. I have problems that Muhammad himself said for Christians and Jews to stay with their faith. I also have trouble with him then saying to kill everyone who does become followers of the Koran. The above I have problems with because not once in the Bible does it described such things for the prophets of them. Also I have problem with muslims saying acceptin the scriptures and Christ as a prophet and then say they are tainted, that is a contradiction of terms. Look at my underlined points above. Why torture a prophet? God never does no such things. Gabriel never did not such thing in the Bible, and we can count on people could not read then as well.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
question4u
Posts: 492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 12:16:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/10/2013 10:26:30 PM, question4u wrote:
At 6/10/2013 8:03:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
What: At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

What for Islam ?My creed is like yours, I believe in one God,no partners, He is the only God, but believe in Jesus and Mohamed too as Messiah, and Prophet respectively!

my creed and yours is totally off, you believe in two godman or holy men, mohamed which quran is not ashame to tell his dirt and what he did, I believe mohamed followed the essene way or the nazarene way, which is not my way....more towards gnosticism.

Do you speak out of knowledge or your heard rumours ?! If you want to seek knowledge the first tool shall be avoid judgement ..Did you read these:Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him... from verse 144/ chapter 3/ Quran



Narrated Abu
Huraira:

"A man from the
Muslims and a man from the Jews quarrelled, and the Muslim said, "By Him
Who gave superiority to Muhammad over all the people!" The Jew said,
"By Him Who gave superiority to Moses over all the people!' On that the
Muslim lifted his hand and slapped the Jew. The Jew went to Allah's Messenger () and
informed him of all that had happened between him and the Muslim. The Prophet () said,
"Do not give me superiority over Moses, for the people will fall
unconscious on the Day of Resurrection, I will be the first to regain
consciousness and behold, Moses will be standing there, holding the side of the
Throne. I will not know whether he has been one of those who have fallen
unconscious and then regained consciousness before me, or if he has been one of
those exempted by Allah (from falling unconscious)." (See Hadith No. 524,
Vol. 8)

Whoever takes our prophet for a deity has gone astray according to Quran.

look here if you ever read it:



"In a response, Maimonides discusses the relationship between Judaism and Islam:

The Ishmaelites are not at all idolaters; [idolatry] has long been severed from
their mouths and hearts; and they attribute to God a proper unity, a unity
concerning which there is no doubt. And because they lie about us, and falsely
attribute to us the statement that God has a son, is no reason for us to lie
about them and say that they are idolaters ... And should anyone say that the
house that they honor [the Kaaba] is a house of idolatry and an idol is hidden
within it, which their ancestors used to worship, then what of it? The hearts
of those who bow down toward it today are [directed] only toward Heaven ...
[Regarding] the Ishmaelites today " idolatry has been severed from the mouths
of all of them [including] women and children. Their error and foolishness is
in other things which cannot be put into writing because of the renegades and
wicked among Israel [i.e., apostates]. But as regards the unity of God they
have no error at all.[63]"

Don't ruin yourself for what you hear from twisted sources..

sorry to let you know but I used to be a christian that worked in the gift of prophecy, and I was revealed something else after fasting and prayer but before it get into that.....so I first started to view different christianity views on how they view christology, some are trinitarian, some are unitarian, some jehova witness, some gnostic, some muslim, some catholic view, and others view that he was just a good moral man just like the most, so I prayed about this confusing, because remember the creator is not the author of confusion, I then moved towards that Jesus is the only true God, just manifested himself in a earthly body like a puppet master and was speaking about himself but only to get the glory from man kind, but that did not make no sense, but as I investigated more, I thought I fit in with the unitarians but after hearing there core beliefs it is the same as trinitarians, one says three persons same God, the other say in substance or essence or only in purpose...equals the same to me... such confusion, then I researched this view and early christians had this view, that jesus was the only true in living god and also killed others who did not believe in this... so I was even more confused, so I then prayed, to the one who spoke to me a long time ago , and was keeping through out my life, I asked "who are you really and who is Jesus and are you Jesus", I said a lot more after but this was the main part to speak on. I then had a dream that same night, a voice saying "that I am the only true and living God there is none else, I am the God of Abraham, serve me" now as a christian I was lost for words, because I still did not get an answer about Jesus, until a couple a nights after I then was shown this ancient place, roads full of dirts, I started seeing man and women, writing down words on, old looking paper, passing messages around, I then heard different views speaking about jesus, then It start changing from the old times until present... so after all that I started reading my bible more to understand, so I read Isaiah, then I read the new testament, I then notice that someone was trying to take focus off the true God and replace it with Lord or baal as the children of old did, I started then having dreams about demons attacking me and my family, I first tried to us name of Jesus but the demons laughed at me, I then used the name of the God of Abraham and the demon fleed, I was then looking for his real name, so most christians and scholars and historians and ancient writing no him as Yahweh, until the jews that worship another and others used the LORD, Jehova, Jesus , and other names, but according to Hosea 2:16 which Yahweh plainly said not to call him by the LORD or Lord or Baal in Hebrew or Baali which means the Lord which the children of old was also worshiping at the time and majority of the world,
question4u
Posts: 492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 12:45:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 4:17:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Fruity, you need to really research for faith.

Islam and Muhammad came from Kabaa. It is a Arabic version of the Kaballah. This is the same thing as Catholicism. Both came from Jewish Mysticism which is sorcery and witchcraft. Feel free to research this.

You are true about Islam in a way that I will agree, but also Christianity would not be if it was not for Catholicisim, they created trinity, the created birth place of jesus and birth day, they created a creed that many go by today, they came up with the gospels from others views during the days of antiquity and before and way after, they also came up with communion, they came up with the greek, latin and english version of the bible, they came up with taking tithes from the church folks when even the new testament does not talk about taking about mandatory offering that will make you curse if you do not, which they stole from levitical priest(if you read tithes in new testament where does it talk about money, even until this very day we still have land, food clothes, portion to give, but know the church does not want to be like the old testament but have there on way of living, you must give, offering, benevolent, first fruit, peace, love, church fund, heads salary, and then tithes, just to name a few) they are the first christians to build a church building/business for Jesus, first to come up with Jesus as a godman, at first he was someone that no one really didnt know what he was, but christian/catholics argued and killed until we get what we get today, I can keep going and going and going, but all people that believe in Jesus have to pay homage to the catholics because without them this myth would not be here....they have the most christians they are the largest denomination, and they have been ruling with an iron fist for more than 1000 years what other jesus religion have been doing it better....none of course, it is the mother church and all others are their little bastard children, they will use universalism to cause all to flock to them once again and try to do it all over again.... but I do thank the creator for those who did not fall to their plan all the way such as Islam, otherwise they would have had everything they wanted, islam is only killing christians because the news dont let you know this but christians have been warring and killing muslims and islamic people for a long time, and that war have not stopped, also jews that work with the catholics undercover have been doing the same thing, all comes back in a big triangle...with the Church in the middle created its purpose with the UN at its feet and America as its fighting tool or force..should be tired of lies but we like it...we can not see that after america blow up something and people are killed who are first on the seen the so called missionaries or christians also the UN tring to make peace, all in the name of democracy...not really all in the name of the Church, who control the rockefellers and the rothchild family and the Illuminati...it which was founded out of the church Jesuit Order of course....I am done for right now but keep the hope alive Jesus should come at anytime.............................................................................................. in about another 1000 years...:)
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 6:12:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 12:16:42 PM, question4u wrote:

sorry to let you know but I used to be a christian that worked in the gift of prophecy, and I was revealed something else after fasting and prayer but before it get into that.....so I first started to view different christianity views on how they view christology, some are trinitarian, some are unitarian, some jehova witness, some gnostic, some muslim, some catholic view, and others view that he was just a good moral man just like the most, so I prayed about this confusing, because remember the creator is not the author of confusion, I then moved towards that Jesus is the only true God, just manifested himself in a earthly body like a puppet master and was speaking about himself but only to get the glory from man kind, but that did not make no sense, but as I investigated more, I thought I fit in with the unitarians but after hearing there core beliefs it is the same as trinitarians, one says three persons same God, the other say in substance or essence or only in purpose...equals the same to me... such confusion, then I researched this view and early christians had this view, that jesus was the only true in living god and also killed others who did not believe in this... so I was even more confused, so I then prayed, to the one who spoke to me a long time ago , and was keeping through out my life, I asked "who are you really and who is Jesus and are you Jesus", I said a lot more after but this was the main part to speak on. I then had a dream that same night, a voice saying "that I am the only true and living God there is none else, I am the God of Abraham, serve me" now as a christian I was lost for words, because I still did not get an answer about Jesus, until a couple a nights after I then was shown this ancient place, roads full of dirts, I started seeing man and women, writing down words on, old looking paper, passing messages around, I then heard different views speaking about jesus, then It start changing from the old times until present... so after all that I started reading my bible more to understand, so I read Isaiah, then I read the new testament, I then notice that someone was trying to take focus off the true God and replace it with Lord or baal as the children of old did, I started then having dreams about demons attacking me and my family, I first tried to us name of Jesus but the demons laughed at me, I then used the name of the God of Abraham and the demon fleed, I was then looking for his real name, so most christians and scholars and historians and ancient writing no him as Yahweh, until the jews that worship another and others used the LORD, Jehova, Jesus , and other names, but according to Hosea 2:16 which Yahweh plainly said not to call him by the LORD or Lord or Baal in Hebrew or Baali which means the Lord which the children of old was also worshiping at the time and majority of the world,

Well I'm glad for you actually, and I ask the only true God YHWH,the Creator of the heavens and the earth, to guide you and strengthen your faith.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 6:41:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:41:59 AM, Harbinger wrote:

Indeed. I have problems that Muhammad himself said for Christians and Jews to stay with their faith.

Ok, in Muslim lands the jews and Christians have the right to be judjed according to their scriptures, it is not asking them to keep their faithm but just encouraging them to establish their own scriptures. They are invited to embrace Islam but aren't forced.

I also have trouble with him then saying to kill everyone who does NOT become followers of the Koran.

This is in the situation of battles. when there is a battle between Muslims and disbeleivers, than Muslims can Kill any soldiers except those who embrace Islam.

when the Battle is done and the Muslims win, they can take the rest of them as slaves or there are other options.so it really depends on the context of each verse. every verse treats a specific situation.

The above I have problems with because not once in the Bible does it described such things for the prophets of them.

Well even if Gabriel- peace be upon him- never did this to any prophet before it won't mean it shouldn't happen this way.

The wait of revelation may have been much heavier this time or something.

Also I have problem with muslims saying acceptin the scriptures and Christ as a prophet and then say they are tainted, that is a contradiction of terms.

Well we have to beleive in Torah and Gospel as revealed to Moses and Jesus, not as they are interpreted now. we actually don't know how accurate your scriptures are with the original revelation.and it doesn't bother us cause the Quran contains a whole set of clear commands independently from previous scriptures.

Look at my underlined points above. Why torture a prophet? God never does no such things. Gabriel never did not such thing in the Bible, and we can count on people could not read then as well.

It isn't torture my dear, it's true that as a result the Prophet was shocked and thought so;ething bad was about to happen to him, but the result is a completed mission.

we're not in paradise here, we got to suffer to accomplish the best things.

And Gabriel does whatever he is Commanded.

A I said before , not because something never happened should it never happen.

Before jesus and after him noone performed the Miracles he did. but he still did it.

and the most important Miracle of Mohamed is the Quran itself, it is a heavy book. so maybe Gabriel was getting him ready to receive the first part of it .
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 6:55:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 1:21:34 AM, stubs wrote:
At 6/10/2013 7:59:28 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/10/2013 7:36:28 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/10/2013 6:53:53 PM, question4u wrote:
True Yahwism, I believe Yahweh is the only true in living creator of all, he shares his glory with none other, I worsjip him and him only, I am here to see if any christian or jesus/yahshua believing jew can prove otherwise... so far they can't even prove jesus existed, so I would rather have jew that believe in jesus teach me that yahweh sHared his glory and throne with another godman or person according to old testament

Well Jesus most certainly existed and almost all historians would agree. Being God is not agreed but His existence is. Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

I have a question. Do you believe in common descent (Evolution)? It is relevant to the discussion, and I will explain why after you respond.

I'll bite. Yes.

Of course you do, because you are not an ignorant Young Earth Creationist and you understand the importance of science. The only reason I mentioned it is because the argument was made by Harbinger that most historians believe Jesus existed, therefore we should believe it. However, most scientists believe evolution occurs (virtually all of them), but Harbinger does not believe it. Thus, this seems like special pleading.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 7:00:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 3:04:18 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/10/2013 7:59:28 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

I have a question. Do you believe in common descent (Evolution)? It is relevant to the discussion, and I will explain why after you respond.

Of course we descend from God, thats common.

There is almost no way that was a sincere response.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2013 7:04:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 12:45:44 PM, question4u wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:17:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 4:10:38 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

Fruity, you need to really research for faith.

Islam and Muhammad came from Kabaa. It is a Arabic version of the Kaballah. This is the same thing as Catholicism. Both came from Jewish Mysticism which is sorcery and witchcraft. Feel free to research this.


You are true about Islam in a way that I will agree, but also Christianity would not be if it was not for Catholicisim, they created trinity, the created birth place of jesus and birth day, they created a creed that many go by today, they came up with the gospels from others views during the days of antiquity and before and way after, they also came up with communion, they came up with the greek, latin and english version of the bible, they came up with taking tithes from the church folks when even the new testament does not talk about taking about mandatory offering that will make you curse if you do not, which they stole from levitical priest(if you read tithes in new testament where does it talk about money, even until this very day we still have land, food clothes, portion to give, but know the church does not want to be like the old testament but have there on way of living, you must give, offering, benevolent, first fruit, peace, love, church fund, heads salary, and then tithes, just to name a few) they are the first christians to build a church building/business for Jesus, first to come up with Jesus as a godman, at first he was someone that no one really didnt know what he was, but christian/catholics argued and killed until we get what we get today, I can keep going and going and going, but all people that believe in Jesus have to pay homage to the catholics because without them this myth would not be here....they have the most christians they are the largest denomination, and they have been ruling with an iron fist for more than 1000 years what other jesus religion have been doing it better....none of course, it is the mother church and all others are their little bastard children, they will use universalism to cause all to flock to them once again and try to do it all over again.... but I do thank the creator for those who did not fall to their plan all the way such as Islam, otherwise they would have had everything they wanted, islam is only killing christians because the news dont let you know this but christians have been warring and killing muslims and islamic people for a long time, and that war have not stopped, also jews that work with the catholics undercover have been doing the same thing, all comes back in a big triangle...with the Church in the middle created its purpose with the UN at its feet and America as its fighting tool or force..should be tired of lies but we like it...we can not see that after america blow up something and people are killed who are first on the seen the so called missionaries or christians also the UN tring to make peace, all in the name of democracy...not really all in the name of the Church, who control the rockefellers and the rothchild family and the Illuminati...it which was founded out of the church Jesuit Order of course....I am done for right now but keep the hope alive Jesus should come at anytime.............................................................................................. in about another 1000 years...:)

yes, until then, please read this Quranic verse about Baal:

And lo! Elias was of those sent (to warn), (123)
When he said unto his folk: Will ye not ward off (evil)? (124)
Will ye cry unto Baal and forsake the best of creators, (125)
Allah, your Lord and Lord of your forefathers? (126)
But they denied him, so they surely will be haled forth (to the doom) (127)
Save single-minded slaves of Allah. (128)
And we left for him among the later folk (the salutation): (129)
Peace be unto Elias! (130) Lo! thus do We reward the good. (131)
Lo! he is one of our believing slaves. (132) Chapter 37 / Quran.

I'm really lost, you guys say Quran is based on sorcelry and the Quran denies it, and it clearly invites mankind to worship the only true god! and so far you didn't present an evidence for your claim, and there is none.

Sure there are sects that claim to be Muslim that do things that are forbiden in Islam and look more like idolatery than anything else, but those sects don't have the support of Qurqn nor hadith.