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Teach the controversy !!!

Illegalcombatant
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6/11/2013 6:35:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://controversy.wearscience.com...

I particularly like the devil there planting fossils. Also I think time cube makes an appearance. LONG LIVE TIME CUBE !!!!
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Illegalcombatant
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6/11/2013 6:42:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

Yeah a just over 6000 year old earth is in there too.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 6:55:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:42:44 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

Yeah a just over 6000 year old earth is in there too.

There you go, I believe God and most believe in men.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2013 6:59:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:55:40 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:42:44 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

Yeah a just over 6000 year old earth is in there too.

There you go, I believe God and most believe in men.

You believe that God said or did something cause MEN claimed God said or did something. So take yourself off your I only believe what God says pedestal thanks.

Man claims that God said does not equal therefore God said...
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 7:02:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:59:32 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:55:40 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:42:44 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

Yeah a just over 6000 year old earth is in there too.

There you go, I believe God and most believe in men.

You believe that God said or did something cause MEN claimed God said or did something. So take yourself off your I only believe what God says pedestal thanks.

Man claims that God said does not equal therefore God said...

There you go, God told men what to say in the Bible. Therefore, God said.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2013 7:04:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:02:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:59:32 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:55:40 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:42:44 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

Yeah a just over 6000 year old earth is in there too.

There you go, I believe God and most believe in men.

You believe that God said or did something cause MEN claimed God said or did something. So take yourself off your I only believe what God says pedestal thanks.

Man claims that God said does not equal therefore God said...

There you go, God told men what to say in the Bible. Therefore, God said.

Men claim that God told men what to say in the bible, therefore Man said God said.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 7:05:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:04:08 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:02:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:59:32 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:55:40 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:42:44 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

Yeah a just over 6000 year old earth is in there too.

There you go, I believe God and most believe in men.

You believe that God said or did something cause MEN claimed God said or did something. So take yourself off your I only believe what God says pedestal thanks.

Man claims that God said does not equal therefore God said...

There you go, God told men what to say in the Bible. Therefore, God said.

Men claim that God told men what to say in the bible, therefore Man said God said.

Just like your saying now. You refute your own point.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2013 7:06:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:05:53 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:04:08 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:02:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:59:32 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:55:40 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:42:44 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

Yeah a just over 6000 year old earth is in there too.

There you go, I believe God and most believe in men.

You believe that God said or did something cause MEN claimed God said or did something. So take yourself off your I only believe what God says pedestal thanks.

Man claims that God said does not equal therefore God said...

There you go, God told men what to say in the Bible. Therefore, God said.

Men claim that God told men what to say in the bible, therefore Man said God said.

Just like your saying now. You refute your own point.

How so ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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6/11/2013 7:08:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

To postulate a 6000 year old universe requires the concomitant denial of an astounding range of scientific disciplines, not just the disciplines of geology, paleontology, archeology, radiometric dating, genetics, and zoology but also such fundamental disciplines as physics, astronomy, astrophysics, chemistry, biochemistry, geophysics, biology, botany, microbiology, and meteorology, and many others. Because of the interrelated aspect of the sciences you can"t really propose the universe is 6000 years old without being fundamentally anti-scientific. If you could in fact, establish a 6000 year old universe, it would, in effect, unravel the world of science.

And I just don"t see why anyone would want to do that. I simply do not see evolution challenging any of the basic tenets of Christianity; unfortunately, I can"t say the same thing about the young earth Creationist contention. In order to support the belief in a 6000 year old universe, you accordingly have to postulate a deceptive God. You would need to propose a God who would create Man with a rational mind, a sense of wonder, and seeking intellect, while creating a universe with the false appearance of tremendous age. This concept of a deceptive God is very hard to accept, it strikes me as a much greater challenge to Christianity than any damage the concept of evolution could ever hope to do.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Harbinger
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6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:08:57 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

To postulate a 6000 year old universe requires the concomitant denial of an astounding range of scientific disciplines, not just the disciplines of geology, paleontology, archeology, radiometric dating, genetics, and zoology but also such fundamental disciplines as physics, astronomy, astrophysics, chemistry, biochemistry, geophysics, biology, botany, microbiology, and meteorology, and many others. Because of the interrelated aspect of the sciences you can"t really propose the universe is 6000 years old without being fundamentally anti-scientific. If you could in fact, establish a 6000 year old universe, it would, in effect, unravel the world of science.

I have no problem with that. Esp. when there scientist how think that very same thing that are not even Christians. Again who has invented scientific measures? Men, right? Not God.

And I just don"t see why anyone would want to do that. I simply do not see evolution challenging any of the basic tenets of Christianity;

I will never say that your salvation depends on 6,000 years belief but it hurts you taking Gods Word for what it says. You must postulate going against exact wording and that is serious for me. I take God and His influence from the Word as 100% literal. If I did otherwise, Im coping out to men, and why not just not believe Gods Word at all.

unfortunately, I can"t say the same thing about the young earth Creationist contention. In order to support the belief in a 6000 year old universe, you accordingly have to postulate a deceptive God.

That is just nonsense. Man decieves himself and what he thinks is true. Im sure Gods Word says believe Him an not what man tell you and what men think up.

You would need to propose a God who would create Man with a rational mind, a sense of wonder, and seeking intellect, while creating a universe with the false appearance of tremendous age.

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

This concept of a deceptive God is very hard to accept, it strikes me as a much greater challenge to Christianity than any damage the concept of evolution could ever hope to do.

I disagree fully. You must place man as the smart one, God says He is foolish.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
v3nesl
Posts: 4,465
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6/11/2013 7:25:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:35:37 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
http://controversy.wearscience.com...

I particularly like the devil there planting fossils. Also I think time cube makes an appearance. LONG LIVE TIME CUBE !!!!

You do realize that fossils are just the remains of dead animals, right? (or plants, or a spark plug, or whatever gets trapped in the right conditions)

There are no calendars planted with the fossils. Somebody reconstructs a timeline based on certain assumptions, that's all. And the fossil record absolutely does not demonstrate any sort of evolution, that's really just a pure myth. It may be consistent with evolution, you understand, but does not demonstrate it.

And btw - I surely may be wrong, but I subscribe to some variant of the 'gap theory', where "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth" -pause- then "[and as our story opens] the earth was formless and void" So I think God created our current ecosystem in six literal days, but this week was not the beginning of everything. So, to my reading, the cosmos and earth could be of any age, and there could even have been life on earth before the age of humans. And I don't think I'm force fitting modern science into the text. For instance, how do you have "evening and morning" for 4 days before the sun is created on the fourth day? I think Genesis 1 is told from the frame of reference of someone on earth - so light reaches the surface of the earth on day one, and the creation of sun, moon, and stars is parenthetical, and so on. And then, btw, Satan is not just a talking snake, but an angel created some time before our story opens.
This space for rent.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2013 7:30:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:25:51 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:35:37 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
http://controversy.wearscience.com...

I particularly like the devil there planting fossils. Also I think time cube makes an appearance. LONG LIVE TIME CUBE !!!!

You do realize that fossils are just the remains of dead animals, right? (or plants, or a spark plug, or whatever gets trapped in the right conditions)

There are no calendars planted with the fossils. Somebody reconstructs a timeline based on certain assumptions, that's all. And the fossil record absolutely does not demonstrate any sort of evolution, that's really just a pure myth. It may be consistent with evolution, you understand, but does not demonstrate it.

It's not just assumptions, there are observations. You know like the observation of how fossils are found "layered". This has implications as to when what life form was around or not with other life forms.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/11/2013 7:47:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:25:51 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:35:37 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
http://controversy.wearscience.com...

I particularly like the devil there planting fossils. Also I think time cube makes an appearance. LONG LIVE TIME CUBE !!!!

You do realize that fossils are just the remains of dead animals, right? (or plants, or a spark plug, or whatever gets trapped in the right conditions)

There are no calendars planted with the fossils.

Actually, funny you should say, because there essentially are. "Consequently, palaeontologists rely on stratigraphy to date fossils. Stratigraphy is the science of deciphering the "layer-cake" that is the sedimentary record."

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Somebody reconstructs a timeline based on certain assumptions, that's all.

Yes, based on the assumption that there is not a magical being actively deceiving us.

And the fossil record absolutely does not demonstrate any sort of evolution, that's really just a pure myth.

I think you mean 'pure science'. Projecting much?

It may be consistent with evolution, you understand, but does not demonstrate it.

The people who study fossils for a living disagree. Are you saying they are lying?


And btw - I surely may be wrong, but I subscribe to some variant of the 'gap theory', where "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth" -pause- then "[and as our story opens] the earth was formless and void" So I think God created our current ecosystem in six literal days, but this week was not the beginning of everything. So, to my reading, the cosmos and earth could be of any age, and there could even have been life on earth before the age of humans. And I don't think I'm force fitting modern science into the text. For instance, how do you have "evening and morning" for 4 days before the sun is created on the fourth day? I think Genesis 1 is told from the frame of reference of someone on earth - so light reaches the surface of the earth on day one, and the creation of sun, moon, and stars is parenthetical, and so on. And then, btw, Satan is not just a talking snake, but an angel created some time before our story opens.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/11/2013 7:48:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

Are you saying that men, when influenced by god, are infallible?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 7:50:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:48:32 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

Are you saying that men, when influenced by god, are infallible?

When they are actually influenced by God to do something for God, absolutely.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/11/2013 7:51:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:50:06 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:48:32 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

Are you saying that men, when influenced by god, are infallible?

When they are actually influenced by God to do something for God, absolutely.

And how can one tell the difference between a man influenced in such a way, and a man not influenced in such a way?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 8:00:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:51:10 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:50:06 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:48:32 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

Are you saying that men, when influenced by god, are infallible?

When they are actually influenced by God to do something for God, absolutely.

And how can one tell the difference between a man influenced in such a way, and a man not influenced in such a way?

Back then miracles. Us today, by scripture an faith in it.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2013 8:02:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

I am making a point or 2.

1) A man claiming that God did or said something doesn't constitute a proof or any reason what so ever to believe that claim is true.

2) The irony of some one going around claiming that you can't trust mans word, when its man word that says what God said or did not say.

This is why your constant assertions about how God said or did something based on what some MAN said counts for jack.

You just can't get your head around the possibility that your religious text might be just as man made.

Now here is a question for ya, who told you that *insert religious text here* is a communication from "God"

1) Man
2) God
3) Other
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
drafterman
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6/11/2013 8:02:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 6:40:32 AM, Harbinger wrote:
Who ever says that is not thinking what so ever. The devil did not plant anything. Maybe dating techniques simply are not accurate at all and our understanding of the last 6,000 is not accurate.

If they weren't accurate then it is highly unlikely that they would agree with each other. If they agree with each other but are still inaccurate then that just means the world is such that God is deliberately deceiving us.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/11/2013 8:06:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:25:51 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 6/11/2013 6:35:37 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
http://controversy.wearscience.com...

I particularly like the devil there planting fossils. Also I think time cube makes an appearance. LONG LIVE TIME CUBE !!!!

You do realize that fossils are just the remains of dead animals, right? (or plants, or a spark plug, or whatever gets trapped in the right conditions)

There are no calendars planted with the fossils. Somebody reconstructs a timeline based on certain assumptions, that's all. And the fossil record absolutely does not demonstrate any sort of evolution, that's really just a pure myth. It may be consistent with evolution, you understand, but does not demonstrate it.

It doesn't need to. The fact that it is consistent is powerful enough. Evolution stands on its own merits.


And btw - I surely may be wrong, but I subscribe to some variant of the 'gap theory', where "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth" -pause- then "[and as our story opens] the earth was formless and void" So I think God created our current ecosystem in six literal days, but this week was not the beginning of everything. So, to my reading, the cosmos and earth could be of any age, and there could even have been life on earth before the age of humans. And I don't think I'm force fitting modern science into the text. For instance, how do you have "evening and morning" for 4 days before the sun is created on the fourth day? I think Genesis 1 is told from the frame of reference of someone on earth - so light reaches the surface of the earth on day one, and the creation of sun, moon, and stars is parenthetical, and so on. And then, btw, Satan is not just a talking snake, but an angel created some time before our story opens.

In response to the bolded, many people would, like you, try and twist around an interpretation that attempts to resolve this with logic and reality.

Many others would simply say it's a fictional account.

To each their own, I suppose.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/11/2013 8:16:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 8:00:33 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:51:10 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:50:06 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:48:32 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

Are you saying that men, when influenced by god, are infallible?

When they are actually influenced by God to do something for God, absolutely.

And how can one tell the difference between a man influenced in such a way, and a man not influenced in such a way?

Back then miracles. Us today, by scripture an faith in it.

So, if someone has faith in the scripture, they are infallible?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 8:18:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 8:16:22 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 8:00:33 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:51:10 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:50:06 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:48:32 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

Are you saying that men, when influenced by god, are infallible?

When they are actually influenced by God to do something for God, absolutely.

And how can one tell the difference between a man influenced in such a way, and a man not influenced in such a way?

Back then miracles. Us today, by scripture an faith in it.

So, if someone has faith in the scripture, they are infallible?

Absolutely. Having faith and being directly influenced by God is not the same thing.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 8:19:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 8:02:31 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

I am making a point or 2.

1) A man claiming that God did or said something doesn't constitute a proof or any reason what so ever to believe that claim is true.

2) The irony of some one going around claiming that you can't trust mans word, when its man word that says what God said or did not say.

This is why your constant assertions about how God said or did something based on what some MAN said counts for jack.

You just can't get your head around the possibility that your religious text might be just as man made.

Now here is a question for ya, who told you that *insert religious text here* is a communication from "God"

1) Man
2) God
3) Other

I really do not care about what you think. I only care what God thinks.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 8:20:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 8:18:07 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 8:16:22 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 8:00:33 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:51:10 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:50:06 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:48:32 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

Are you saying that men, when influenced by god, are infallible?

When they are actually influenced by God to do something for God, absolutely.

And how can one tell the difference between a man influenced in such a way, and a man not influenced in such a way?

Back then miracles. Us today, by scripture an faith in it.

So, if someone has faith in the scripture, they are infallible?

Absolutely. Having faith and being directly influenced by God is not the same thing.

I meant they are falliable, sorry.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/11/2013 8:25:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 8:19:40 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 8:02:31 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

I am making a point or 2.

1) A man claiming that God did or said something doesn't constitute a proof or any reason what so ever to believe that claim is true.

2) The irony of some one going around claiming that you can't trust mans word, when its man word that says what God said or did not say.

This is why your constant assertions about how God said or did something based on what some MAN said counts for jack.

You just can't get your head around the possibility that your religious text might be just as man made.

Now here is a question for ya, who told you that *insert religious text here* is a communication from "God"

1) Man
2) God
3) Other

I really do not care about what you think. I only care what God thinks.

How do you determine what God thinks? What does God think about the latest season of Game of Thrones?
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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6/11/2013 8:30:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 7:02:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
There you go, God told men what to say in the Bible. Therefore, God said.

Who was it that personally told you the Bible is the word of god?
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 8:40:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 8:25:00 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/11/2013 8:19:40 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 8:02:31 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:47:15 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:23:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 7:17:51 AM, Harbinger wrote:

No, I postulate God gave man all those things and he has used to deceive himself. Trust in God and his Word and not what mens crafts tell you.

So your telling us not to trust man, when man is the one claiming what God said and did ?

No, you again are saying man did this and God influenced to do this. Not the same thing by any means. Your suggestion is that man just invented the story and we will not ever agree on that.

I am making a point or 2.

1) A man claiming that God did or said something doesn't constitute a proof or any reason what so ever to believe that claim is true.

2) The irony of some one going around claiming that you can't trust mans word, when its man word that says what God said or did not say.

This is why your constant assertions about how God said or did something based on what some MAN said counts for jack.

You just can't get your head around the possibility that your religious text might be just as man made.

Now here is a question for ya, who told you that *insert religious text here* is a communication from "God"

1) Man
2) God
3) Other

I really do not care about what you think. I only care what God thinks.

How do you determine what God thinks?

The Holy Ghost.

What does God think about the latest season of Game of Thrones?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."