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The date of your choice?

bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/11/2013 9:11:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

Of course it is not a choice. I do not "choose" to like tits and a female figure, I see these, and like them. It is drummed into us by evolution. Some people are naturally "wired" differently.

As long as we are discussing consenting adults, then there is nothing wrong with any type of sex that goes on.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2013 9:44:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I remember it well, it was a bright sunny day and the were birds sinning. After mulling around on the internet especially DDO, I saw a bright light. This light came closer and closer, and from in the light I saw the image of a likeness of a man. I said Jesus is that you ? a voice came from the light and it said, ya it is me. I asked what do you want Lord ?

Then Jesus said, choose this day which you serve, Satan and his homosexual desires or the righteousness of my father and heterosexuality. I said Lo for it be for me to go against the righteousness of a holy God. Then the Lord said, go forth, and pound some vag, and then I said thy will be done, and there was much rejoicing.

Hey you can't prove it didn't happen :)
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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6/11/2013 9:47:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:44:07 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I remember it well, it was a bright sunny day and the were birds sinning. After mulling around on the internet especially DDO, I saw a bright light. This light came closer and closer, and from in the light I saw the image of a likeness of a man. I said Jesus is that you ? a voice came from the light and it said, ya it is me. I asked what do you want Lord ?

Then Jesus said, choose this day which you serve, Satan and his homosexual desires or the righteousness of my father and heterosexuality. I said Lo for it be for me to go against the righteousness of a holy God. Then the Lord said, go forth, and pound some vag, and then I said thy will be done, and there was much rejoicing.

Hey you can't prove it didn't happen :)

lol!
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/11/2013 9:59:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
You've got to love special pleading. "I'm heterosexual, because that's how I was made, but he's homosexual cos he hates god" Wecome to 3000BC.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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6/11/2013 10:02:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice.
False. Heterosexuality is the evolutionary norm influenced by nature; true homosexuality is a deviance influenced by the environment and some epigenetic factors.

I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance.
Because I'm not gay, I have never made the decision: nature made it for me.

Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?
I've never had a sexual attraction to members of my gender but as far as I can remember I luv me some t1ts and arse! TnA always get a rise out of me...and Chuck Norris...oh wait that was just gas!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/11/2013 10:07:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:59:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
You've got to love special pleading. "I'm heterosexual, because that's how I was made, but he's homosexual cos he hates god" Wecome to 3000BC.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying "I'm heterosexual because that's how I was made, and he's homosexual because he chose to be." I'm saying that because it's possible that that's how things could be that it therefore doesn't follow that because heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality that homosexuals don't either.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2013 10:16:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 10:07:59 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:59:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
You've got to love special pleading. "I'm heterosexual, because that's how I was made, but he's homosexual cos he hates god" Wecome to 3000BC.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying "I'm heterosexual because that's how I was made, and he's homosexual because he chose to be." I'm saying that because it's possible that that's how things could be that it therefore doesn't follow that because heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality that homosexuals don't either.

But that's not exactly the argument. If we acknowledge that Godly Heterosexuals don't choose their heterosexuality, it's an unnecessary move to then say yeah but Satanic homosexuals do.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/11/2013 10:26:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 10:16:00 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:07:59 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:59:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
You've got to love special pleading. "I'm heterosexual, because that's how I was made, but he's homosexual cos he hates god" Wecome to 3000BC.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying "I'm heterosexual because that's how I was made, and he's homosexual because he chose to be." I'm saying that because it's possible that that's how things could be that it therefore doesn't follow that because heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality that homosexuals don't either.

But that's not exactly the argument. If we acknowledge that Godly Heterosexuals don't choose their heterosexuality, it's an unnecessary move to then say yeah but Satanic homosexuals do.

Maybe I missed bulproof's point, then. I got the impression he was trying to say: "If heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality, then neither do homosexuals." What I'm saying it that there's no inconsistency between saying one chooses their sexuality while the other doesn't because it's possible that one orientation is innate and the other isn't. I'm not saying homosexuality is chosen. I seriously doubt it is. I'm just saying that this particular argument (or what I thought was the argument) doesn't work.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/11/2013 10:31:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 10:26:44 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:16:00 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:07:59 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:59:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
You've got to love special pleading. "I'm heterosexual, because that's how I was made, but he's homosexual cos he hates god" Wecome to 3000BC.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying "I'm heterosexual because that's how I was made, and he's homosexual because he chose to be." I'm saying that because it's possible that that's how things could be that it therefore doesn't follow that because heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality that homosexuals don't either.

But that's not exactly the argument. If we acknowledge that Godly Heterosexuals don't choose their heterosexuality, it's an unnecessary move to then say yeah but Satanic homosexuals do.

Maybe I missed bulproof's point, then. I got the impression he was trying to say: "If heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality, then neither do homosexuals." What I'm saying it that there's no inconsistency between saying one chooses their sexuality while the other doesn't because it's possible that one orientation is innate and the other isn't. I'm not saying homosexuality is chosen. I seriously doubt it is. I'm just saying that this particular argument (or what I thought was the argument) doesn't work.
You are claiming that you didn't have a choice, that heterosexuality is the only possibility but homosexuals get a choice and choose homosexuality. So that anyone who has the choice will choose homosexuality therefore it was never a choice if the default is homosexuality.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/11/2013 10:41:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 10:31:40 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:26:44 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:16:00 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:07:59 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:59:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
You've got to love special pleading. "I'm heterosexual, because that's how I was made, but he's homosexual cos he hates god" Wecome to 3000BC.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying "I'm heterosexual because that's how I was made, and he's homosexual because he chose to be." I'm saying that because it's possible that that's how things could be that it therefore doesn't follow that because heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality that homosexuals don't either.

But that's not exactly the argument. If we acknowledge that Godly Heterosexuals don't choose their heterosexuality, it's an unnecessary move to then say yeah but Satanic homosexuals do.

Maybe I missed bulproof's point, then. I got the impression he was trying to say: "If heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality, then neither do homosexuals." What I'm saying it that there's no inconsistency between saying one chooses their sexuality while the other doesn't because it's possible that one orientation is innate and the other isn't. I'm not saying homosexuality is chosen. I seriously doubt it is. I'm just saying that this particular argument (or what I thought was the argument) doesn't work.
You are claiming that you didn't have a choice, that heterosexuality is the only possibility but homosexuals get a choice and choose homosexuality. So that anyone who has the choice will choose homosexuality therefore it was never a choice if the default is homosexuality.

I think there is a difference between saying, "I did not chose to be heterosexual" and saying, "I had no choice but to be heterosexual." It could be that heterosexuality naturally arises in people even though it's possible for them to choose otherwise. In that case, they didn't choose to be heterosexual, but they could have chosen not to be.

If it were the case that no heterosexual could choose to be homosexual, then I agree it would follow that homosexuality is not a choice. That only exception I can see is where a person starts off as asexual and then chooses to be homosexual.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/11/2013 10:59:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.

I agree. But, I also see that it is just a sinful act as like cursing is or stealing. All three are wrong and in need of repentance, that is the problem with it, the thought of it being just ok and not seeking repentance for it as you for stealing or cursing.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/11/2013 11:06:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 10:41:48 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:31:40 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:26:44 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:16:00 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:07:59 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:59:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
You've got to love special pleading. "I'm heterosexual, because that's how I was made, but he's homosexual cos he hates god" Wecome to 3000BC.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying "I'm heterosexual because that's how I was made, and he's homosexual because he chose to be." I'm saying that because it's possible that that's how things could be that it therefore doesn't follow that because heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality that homosexuals don't either.

But that's not exactly the argument. If we acknowledge that Godly Heterosexuals don't choose their heterosexuality, it's an unnecessary move to then say yeah but Satanic homosexuals do.

Maybe I missed bulproof's point, then. I got the impression he was trying to say: "If heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality, then neither do homosexuals." What I'm saying it that there's no inconsistency between saying one chooses their sexuality while the other doesn't because it's possible that one orientation is innate and the other isn't. I'm not saying homosexuality is chosen. I seriously doubt it is. I'm just saying that this particular argument (or what I thought was the argument) doesn't work.
You are claiming that you didn't have a choice, that heterosexuality is the only possibility but homosexuals get a choice and choose homosexuality. So that anyone who has the choice will choose homosexuality therefore it was never a choice if the default is homosexuality.

I think there is a difference between saying, "I did not chose to be heterosexual" and saying, "I had no choice but to be heterosexual." It could be that heterosexuality naturally arises in people even though it's possible for them to choose otherwise. In that case, they didn't choose to be heterosexual, but they could have chosen not to be.

If it were the case that no heterosexual could choose to be homosexual, then I agree it would follow that homosexuality is not a choice. That only exception I can see is where a person starts off as asexual and then chooses to be homosexual.
Begging the question and equivocating do not an argument make. You are saying that heterosexual is the default and so requires no choice how then does one choose an option that doesn't exist? If it's possible to choose an option then that option must exist for everyone or it isn't an option or a choice. If the default is that you can't choose homosexuality, as you claim, because your heterosexuality is innate then there are no homosexuals.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/11/2013 11:08:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 10:59:10 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.

I agree. But, I also see that it is just a sinful act as like cursing is or stealing. All three are wrong and in need of repentance, that is the problem with it, the thought of it being just ok and not seeking repentance for it as you for stealing or cursing.

YOU haven't answered the question.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/12/2013 12:03:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 11:06:42 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:41:48 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:31:40 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:26:44 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:16:00 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/11/2013 10:07:59 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:59:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.
You've got to love special pleading. "I'm heterosexual, because that's how I was made, but he's homosexual cos he hates god" Wecome to 3000BC.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying "I'm heterosexual because that's how I was made, and he's homosexual because he chose to be." I'm saying that because it's possible that that's how things could be that it therefore doesn't follow that because heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality that homosexuals don't either.

But that's not exactly the argument. If we acknowledge that Godly Heterosexuals don't choose their heterosexuality, it's an unnecessary move to then say yeah but Satanic homosexuals do.

Maybe I missed bulproof's point, then. I got the impression he was trying to say: "If heterosexuals don't choose their sexuality, then neither do homosexuals." What I'm saying it that there's no inconsistency between saying one chooses their sexuality while the other doesn't because it's possible that one orientation is innate and the other isn't. I'm not saying homosexuality is chosen. I seriously doubt it is. I'm just saying that this particular argument (or what I thought was the argument) doesn't work.
You are claiming that you didn't have a choice, that heterosexuality is the only possibility but homosexuals get a choice and choose homosexuality. So that anyone who has the choice will choose homosexuality therefore it was never a choice if the default is homosexuality.

I think there is a difference between saying, "I did not chose to be heterosexual" and saying, "I had no choice but to be heterosexual." It could be that heterosexuality naturally arises in people even though it's possible for them to choose otherwise. In that case, they didn't choose to be heterosexual, but they could have chosen not to be.

If it were the case that no heterosexual could choose to be homosexual, then I agree it would follow that homosexuality is not a choice. That only exception I can see is where a person starts off as asexual and then chooses to be homosexual.
Begging the question and equivocating do not an argument make.

Neither does straw-manning, but I haven't done any of those things. :-)

You are saying that heterosexual is the default and so requires no choice how then does one choose an option that doesn't exist?

I'm not saying that heterosexual is the default nor that one can choose an option that doesn't exist.

If it's possible to choose an option then that option must exist for everyone or it isn't an option or a choice.

I agree that an option must exist before it's possible to choose it, but I don't see why the option must exist for everyone, and I don't see what this has to do with anything I've said anyway.

If the default is that you can't choose homosexuality, as you claim, because your heterosexuality is innate then there are no homosexuals.

I do not say the default is that you can't choose homosexuality, whether heterosexuality is innate or not.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/13/2013 2:24:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In primary school I had a girl friend whom I used to love , we were like twins, we used to have a lot of fun together, so much that I used to think, I wish I was a boy so I'd marry her when we grow! , then when I grew, well she moved so we weren't in touch anymore, and even if we were in touch we diverged philosophically, so I don't think we would have stayed as close as we were.

And before I ever got married ,I used to think female body is more attractive than male! but after I married I changed my opinion!

The point Is I never thought of homosexuality as an option, and It just doesn't hurt !!

Love and sex can be confused, Love and sex are different.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/13/2013 2:28:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.

That's why the better argument has always been to ask them to try and choose to be attracted to a man.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/13/2013 10:50:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:28:12 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:37:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/11/2013 9:00:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
To those who claim that homosexuality is a choice, the corollary is that heterosexuality is a choice. I would like to know on what date you made this decision of such monumental import. You must remember this moment with great clarity given it's importance. Could you tell us of this experience, the moment when you decided to ignore your sexual attraction to members of your own gender and concentrate instead on your sexual attraction to members of the opposite gender. BTW do you still struggle to ignore those same sex attractions?

I used to think this was a good argument against the idea that people choose to be homosexual, but I changed my mind just today. Although I seriously doubt that people choose to be homosexual, I don't think this particular argument works.

It doesn't follow that because people don't choose to be heterosexuality that they therefore don't choose homosexuality either. It could be that heterosexuality is the default orientation that is innate and that homosexuality requires a choice to deny that innate sense of sexuality. In that case, homosexuality would be a choice, but heterosexuality wouldn't be.

That's why the better argument has always been to ask them to try and choose to be attracted to a man.
The interesting thing about the "choice" claim ie homosexuality is a choice, is that only homosexuals get that choice. All of these red blooded hetero's never chose to be hetero's they just are. I wonder has anyone of them ever asked this god they natter with incessantly "why wasn't I given a choice" to weak to resist perhaps? Is your god being fair in only offering the choice of sexuality to homosexuals and not heterosexuals?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin