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Islam in 30 years

gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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12/3/2009 7:30:01 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
well . . . guess what I just learned? In 30 years, Europe will be a primarily Islamic continent. Why? because European birthrates are declining, and Muslim birthrates are growing. In France, the average non-Muslim family has 2 kids where the average Muslim family has 8 kids. Similar statistics are evident in every European country, though perhaps not as drastic.

Again and again I am amazed at how brilliant Muslims are, I give props to you even though I am a born-again Christian. They are taking over an entire continent merely by having more children! I really think that Christianity as the world knows it is gonna be in for some rough times. . . .

For any Christians on this site, HAVE MORE BABIES . .. . and quick. . . .haha
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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12/3/2009 7:40:44 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
You're an idiot.

In the U.S, Hispanics and African-Americans have much higher birthrates. Will the U.S. be a nation of (what are now) minorities?

But that is not an apt comparison. You can't just say Muslims, because that is such a diverse cross section of the population it's not fair to lump them all together and paint their genetic disposition as some sort of evil, sinister global plot of world domination.

Maybe, just maybe, they've flocked to Europe en masse because Western imperialism has caused their homeland to become unstable and an unsuitable living environment. If Europe wanted to stop immigration, they would stop the causes and bring prosperity to the Middle East by means of constructive partnerships, not by backing destructive wars and IMF-backed economic imperialism.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/3/2009 7:49:03 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 7:40:44 AM, MistahKurtz wrote:
You're an idiot.

In the U.S, Hispanics and African-Americans have much higher birthrates. Will the U.S. be a nation of (what are now) minorities?

yes.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/3/2009 11:24:46 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
This fails on many levels.

One, Muslim integration in Europe is still a wavering process. Its slow and arduous, and isn't moving fast enough to overrun even the relatively slow birth rates in Europe.

Two, those Muslims that have been in Europe for a longer period of time and are integrated suffer from the same low birth rate. This is because the major threat against birth rates are education and contraception - both things fully available to Muslim families when they come there, and which they take full advantage of.

Three - you're a fearmongering a-hole with no clue about demographics or population characteristics.

Okay, the last one wasn't really a point, but its my opinion.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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12/3/2009 12:40:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
This obviously doesn't take into account that Islam is no different to Christianity, it's followers become apathetic with fringe fundamentalists. Plus, don't be expected to see a lot of these Muslims turn into Atheists.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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12/3/2009 1:23:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Not only that, but more people convert to Islam than any other religion. There are statistics that actually say that Islam will probably surpass Christianity as the world's largest religion.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/3/2009 2:43:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 1:23:36 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Not only that, but more people convert to Islam than any other religion. There are statistics that actually say that Islam will probably surpass Christianity as the world's largest religion.

That I can believe, though if it does indeed surpass Christianity as the largest religion, it won't be a tremendous gap.

But, what does it really matter? Everyone is so scared of having their religion or, lol, race, die out, and asks for people to procreate, or asks for immigrants to be deported, or people of other ethnicities killed... it is quite ridiculous.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/3/2009 2:57:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Okay, I am back.

Islam is spreading in Europe rapidly, and that is a good thing. Islam doesn't bring intolerance, rather it brings tolerance and peace. But it looks like many people are frightened, and even want to ban the Islamic dress code, mosques, and so forth. Do you want us to mention what you should ban that you like and wear?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/3/2009 2:57:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Muslims taking over Europe? Never. Richard Dawkins won't let that happen.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
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12/3/2009 3:02:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 2:57:02 PM, Mirza wrote:
Okay, I am back.

Islam is spreading in Europe rapidly, and that is a good thing. Islam doesn't bring intolerance, rather it brings tolerance and peace. But it looks like many people are frightened, and even want to ban the Islamic dress code, mosques, and so forth. Do you want us to mention what you should ban that you like and wear?

Doesn't Sharia Law do the same thing anyways? Hm? I know there is a dress code, and yes, I remember that little "Arabia for Muslims" bit you said a bit ago. Islam is no more enlightened than Christianity, in these instances.
Mirza
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12/3/2009 3:03:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 2:57:13 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Muslims taking over Europe? Never. Richard Dawkins won't let that happen.
Richard Dawkins can go to his backyard and cry, because he cannot prevent it. People like him, Geert Wilders, and some others are pure extremists.

By the way, if either Atheism or Islam should be the major religion/belief in Europe, then Atheism will ruin it. Atheists are the ones who go to extremes using whatever they can to have "freedom" and impose it on others. Muslims at least spread their message peacefully, and not like, "Oh my God put clothes on those women in the West...!", like most Atheists who say, "Gosh, look at that! Those women are prisoners! Oh my! We need to give them democracy!"

Democracy = catastrophe.
Mirza
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12/3/2009 3:05:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:02:29 PM, Volkov wrote:
Doesn't Sharia Law do the same thing anyways? Hm? I know there is a dress code, and yes, I remember that little "Arabia for Muslims" bit you said a bit ago. Islam is no more enlightened than Christianity, in these instances.
Arabian Peninsula for Muslims, yes. Why should there be other religions there? If Muslims can't be alone there, then they won't anywhere. Western leaders would pay uncountable amounts of money to those who travel there and propagate they religion freely to make Islam vanish. But Islam is not for sale.
Volkov
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12/3/2009 3:06:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:04:50 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
At 12/3/2009 3:03:03 PM, Mirza wrote:
Democracy = catastrophe.

So then what form of government would you prefer??

Islamophile, Arab-centric, mysogynocracy!
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/3/2009 3:06:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 2:57:02 PM, Mirza wrote:
Okay, I am back.

Islam is spreading in Europe rapidly, and that is a good thing. Islam doesn't bring intolerance, rather it brings tolerance and peace. But it looks like many people are frightened, and even want to ban the Islamic dress code, mosques, and so forth. Do you want us to mention what you should ban that you like and wear?

Sure, and Imams have a history of applying pressure to the politicians to ban Islam critical rhetoric, literature, art in general. When that fails, they rouse the local youths. See oh, The Netherlands, U.K., France, Scandanavian countries. No I'm not saying all X are Y, at all. However, Imams have a large and fruitful history of getting violence from 'normal' populations of Islamic areas in Europe.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/3/2009 3:07:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:04:50 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
At 12/3/2009 3:03:03 PM, Mirza wrote:
Democracy = catastrophe.

So then what form of government would you prefer??
Shari'a. It has laws protecting people, not letting them behave like monkeys and sell their bodies for sex.

Although I wouldn't just say, "Let's adopt Shari'a to France", I'd rather want some laws adopted, not all immediately of course. What I don't like about democracy is that millions of people die due to it, and that it makes people so sick about living "freely".
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/3/2009 3:08:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:06:35 PM, Puck wrote:
Sure, and Imams have a history of applying pressure to the politicians to ban Islam critical rhetoric, literature, art in general. When that fails, they rouse the local youths. See oh, The Netherlands, U.K., France, Scandanavian countries. No I'm not saying all X are Y, at all. However, Imams have a large and fruitful history of getting violence from 'normal' populations of Islamic areas in Europe.
Do you think any society can function properly when people are allowed to insult each other? Do you think drawing cartoons of our beloved prophet is acceptable?
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/3/2009 3:13:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:08:41 PM, Mirza wrote:

Do you think any society can function properly when people are allowed to insult each other? Do you think drawing cartoons of our beloved prophet is acceptable?

Let's be clear here. Islamic rules are for Muslims. Saying NO YOU CAN NOT DRAW THIS to a non Muslim is laughably absurd. Asking it to be enforced in the law outside Sharia, equally so. Plus that's just one small instance in others of overt politicising, threats and violence in Europe against dissenters.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/3/2009 3:17:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:03:03 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/3/2009 2:57:13 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Muslims taking over Europe? Never. Richard Dawkins won't let that happen.
Richard Dawkins can go to his backyard and cry, because he cannot prevent it. People like him, Geert Wilders, and some others are pure extremists.

Richard Dawkins spawned a global uprising of Atheism. He's not going anywhere.

By the way, if either Atheism or Islam should be the major religion/belief in Europe, then Atheism will ruin it. Atheists are the ones who go to extremes using whatever they can to have "freedom" and impose it on others. Muslims at least spread their message peacefully,

That's laughable. Muslims fly planes into buildings. Dawkins writes books. Which is more peaceful?

and not like, "Oh my God put clothes on those women in the West...!",

Yes they do. A Muslim actually yelled at Richard Dawkins for dressing every woman in a America like a wh*re. He replied, "I don't dress them, they dress themselves."

like most Atheists who say, "Gosh, look at that! Those women are prisoners! Oh my! We need to give them democracy!"

WTF does atheism have to do with Democracy? And wasn't it our Christian administration that tried bringing them democracy?

Democracy = catastrophe.

I agree. However your alternative is just as bad.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/3/2009 3:17:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:13:15 PM, Puck wrote:
Let's be clear here. Islamic rules are for Muslims. Saying NO YOU CAN NOT DRAW THIS to a non Muslim is laughably absurd. Asking it to be enforced in the law outside Sharia, equally so. Plus that's just one small instance in others of overt politicising, threats and violence in Europe against dissenters.
A Muslim is not allowed to insult a Muslim. And a Muslim is not allowed to insult any other religion. Shari'a law is not only for Muslims at all. It is for all people, to prevent discrimination, and so forth.

And you know what? If you want your kids to be raised properly, then raise the, under Shari'a law. They will learn not to steal, not to insult, and many other things. Under democratic ruling, most of them behave like monkeys.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/3/2009 3:18:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:08:41 PM, Mirza wrote:

Do you think any society can function properly when people are allowed to insult

And yes, it's called a freedom of speech - and let's be clear about this one too, it is not 'insults' that is consistently being targeted, it's criticism. What Jyllands-Posten, was firstly was a criticism of Islam; that some Muslims got offended is given, given the violent reaction, equally hypocritical given their publication in the Islamic majority Egypt to no offense or furore, and with the addition of faked images designed purely to incite.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/3/2009 3:22:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:17:40 PM, Mirza wrote:
A Muslim is not allowed to insult a Muslim. And a Muslim is not allowed to insult any other religion. Shari'a law is not only for Muslims at all. It is for all people, to prevent discrimination, and so forth.

No, Sharia law if enforced upon non Muslims is tyranny - it is a set guide for Muslims, based upon religious texts (depending what version as to how any texts) for those of the Islamic faith.

And you know what? If you want your kids to be raised properly, then raise the, under Shari'a law. They will learn not to steal, not to insult, and many other things. Under democratic ruling, most of them behave like monkeys.

Are you saying, right here, that crime does not exist under Sharia law? lol Good to see you wish to raise everyones children for them though.
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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12/3/2009 3:22:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:07:11 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/3/2009 3:04:50 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
At 12/3/2009 3:03:03 PM, Mirza wrote:
Democracy = catastrophe.

So then what form of government would you prefer??
Shari'a. It has laws protecting people, not letting them behave like monkeys and sell their bodies for sex.

Right, because if they do, then they're executed (or handed some other severe punishment). That doesn't exactly seem like a protective legal system to me.

Although I wouldn't just say, "Let's adopt Shari'a to France", I'd rather want some laws adopted, not all immediately of course. What I don't like about democracy is that millions of people die due to it, and that it makes people so sick about living "freely".

Could you explain this further? How exactly has democracy caused the deaths of millions of people, and how would any other form of government differ?? In my opinion, democracy is as close to true freedom as you can possibly get while still having a single government control the state. Maybe the foreign policy of some "democratic" countries is a bit skewed but at least I don't have to worry about being imprisoned for criticizing the government or publicly talking about sex.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/3/2009 3:26:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:17:22 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Richard Dawkins spawned a global uprising of Atheism. He's not going anywhere.
He uses whatever he can to spread Atheism. He wouldn't dare to live under any other law besides democracy. He is a narrow-minded person who wants to eradicate religion, which he will never succeed in.

That's laughable. Muslims fly planes into buildings. Dawkins writes books. Which is more peaceful?
No they don't. Ignorant Western leaders fly planes into buildings, plant bombs and make it look like suicide bombings, and invade innocent countries and want to impose democracy.

Qur'an vs The God Delusion? Please don't compare them. No book on any shelf is more advanced than the Qur'an. By the way, books like "The God Delusion" are about making people Atheists, and then the entire world becomes against religion.

Yes they do. A Muslim actually yelled at Richard Dawkins for dressing every woman in a America like a wh*re. He replied, "I don't dress them, they dress themselves."
I'm talking about the average Muslim. The average Muslim does not yell at people about Western women in any way like an average Westerner yells at Muslim women and calls for freedom to them.

WTF does atheism have to do with Democracy? And wasn't it our Christian administration that tried bringing them democracy?
Democracy and Atheism are like twins. It's about freedom, nothing else. And Christians can do whatever they want, it's not my business.

I agree. However your alternative is just as bad.
No, it's not.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/3/2009 3:34:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Alright, too many of you are writing the same stuff, so I'll reply at once.

Shari'a law does have a strict punishment, but it is used to warn other people of why they should not act upon criminal actions. Also, Shari'a law for non-Muslims is not bad at all. They won't be allowed to drink alcohol, be prostitutes, fornicators, but they will be allowed to do things that are not a waste of time, and not ruining their life.

And I didn't say that crime does not exist under Shari'a law. I am saying that it is very rare compared to the crime in Western states.
Volkov
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12/3/2009 3:35:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Mirza, it seems to me you are inflicting a double standard here.

You claim that the average Westerner essentially wants to launch a campaign against Islam; yet when an average Muslim man yells at Richard Dawkins for "dressing women like whores," you claim that he isn't average, and that everyone else is not like that.

It would be nice to see this double standard disappear before you continue your "argument."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/3/2009 3:42:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:35:33 PM, Volkov wrote:
Mirza, it seems to me you are inflicting a double standard here.

You claim that the average Westerner essentially wants to launch a campaign against Islam; yet when an average Muslim man yells at Richard Dawkins for "dressing women like whores," you claim that he isn't average, and that everyone else is not like that.

It would be nice to see this double standard disappear before you continue your "argument."
I have to go to bed now, but I'll respond tomorrow.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/3/2009 3:55:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 3:34:45 PM, Mirza wrote:
Alright, too many of you are writing the same stuff, so I'll reply at once.

Shari'a law does have a strict punishment, but it is used to warn other people of why they should not act upon criminal actions. Also, Shari'a law for non-Muslims is not bad at all. They won't be allowed to drink alcohol, be prostitutes, fornicators, but they will be allowed to do things that are not a waste of time, and not ruining their life.

Ya really don't get it. Sharia is for Muslims. That's what it is. It is religious code made law. A religious legal code for Muslims. To assert another must follow it is to force that person into a pseudo Islamic state of existence. If someone is Muslim, fine, they can choose to follow archaic law - that however does not translate into non believers, especially not as beneficial, as you want to make it. Freedoms are prohibited, even you agree to that, the question then becomes, if not a Muslim, what source do you claim as viable to enforce these same restrictions where they are as such, meaningless being not one of the faithful. Policing another's mind and body is not a 'better' state or law.
InsertNameHere
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12/3/2009 4:31:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 2:43:25 PM, Volkov wrote:
But, what does it really matter? Everyone is so scared of having their religion or, lol, race, die out, and asks for people to procreate, or asks for immigrants to be deported, or people of other ethnicities killed... it is quite ridiculous.

Yea, Alot of it is fear tactics like with the whole Switzerland banning Minarets thing. Will that stop people from converting to Islam? I highly doubt it. To me, this just displays yet another form of intolerance. If the noise coming from minarets is an issue(not sure if it was, just using it as an example) then why not ban church bells as well?
MikeLoviN
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12/3/2009 4:45:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/3/2009 4:31:52 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Yea, Alot of it is fear tactics like with the whole Switzerland banning Minarets thing. Will that stop people from converting to Islam? I highly doubt it. To me, this just displays yet another form of intolerance. If the noise coming from minarets is an issue(not sure if it was, just using it as an example) then why not ban church bells as well?

You're a convert to Islam right? Out of curiosity, do you support Sharia law? And would you still have converted had you thought that you would have been forced to abide by it?