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Whose on the throne?

question4u
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6/15/2013 9:46:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For Christians that believe that Jesus is on the throne or right hand of the father? Why does revelations speak differently, is right considered as in the midst? Greek Midst is not the right, also during this time of the vision of the throne which comes from Old testament, there is only One and no one in the midst also, greek according to strong concordance for Lamb, Is a Literally lamb, not a son or god man or person or human, but a Lamb, So jesus was transformed into a lamb and now the father rubs and strokes his back on the right side of him or is the Lamb sitting in his lap?

So whose on the throne in heaven?

Whose throne is the earth

Whose throne is Hell?

Who have the throne of Your life?

God the Father, Jesus or Trinity
also did the father give some of his dominion up for his victorious son or split it for the prince?
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/16/2013 12:19:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/15/2013 9:46:49 PM, question4u wrote:

For Christians that believe that Jesus is on the throne or right hand of the father? Why does revelations speak differently, is right considered as in the midst?

Hebrews 8:1
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Greek Midst is not the right, also during this time of the vision of the throne which comes from Old testament, there is only One and no one in the midst also, greek according to strong concordance for Lamb, Is a Literally lamb, not a son or god man or person or human, but a Lamb, So jesus was transformed into a lamb and now the father rubs and strokes his back on the right side of him or is the Lamb sitting in his lap?

Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of the Father. Throughout the Bible lambs are considered a pure unblemished animal, those saved by God are sheep, Jesus is the Shepherd of those sheep. Jesus Christ is pure the unblemished lamb who without one sin or breaking of the Law, laid down His life for all men(ALL MEN) who have broken the law so we may be forgiven.

So whose on the throne in heaven?

God the Father and Jesus in His right hand.

Whose throne is the earth

Satan rules over the flesh because man listened to him instead of the Law of God. The flesh is subject to pain and death.

Whose throne is Hell?

There is no throne in hell.

Who have the throne of Your life?

Men have no throne as well. There is only one throne and that's Gods.

God the Father, Jesus or Trinity
also did the father give some of his dominion up for his victorious son or split it for the prince?

God the Father never gives up His glory or throne. He shares His glory with all who accept Him by accepting His Son Jesus Christ.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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6/18/2013 10:30:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"So whose on the throne in heaven?"

God's throne (or the Throne of David) is in heaven - and there is no other throne. Jesus Christ now sits and reigns over His kingdom at the right hand of the Father on His throne.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/18/2013 11:54:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 10:30:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
"So whose on the throne in heaven?"

God's throne (or the Throne of David) is in heaven - and there is no other throne. Jesus Christ now sits and reigns over His kingdom at the right hand of the Father on His throne.

So, Anna, we are in Jesus Christ kingdom right now? Jesus is reigning over us?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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6/18/2013 11:58:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 11:54:11 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 10:30:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
"So whose on the throne in heaven?"

God's throne (or the Throne of David) is in heaven - and there is no other throne. Jesus Christ now sits and reigns over His kingdom at the right hand of the Father on His throne.

So, Anna, we are in Jesus Christ kingdom right now? Jesus is reigning over us?

Yep. Paul was in it. The Colossians were in it. John was in it. The readers of Hebrews were in it. Those to whom Revelation was written were in it. So am I.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
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6/19/2013 12:04:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 11:58:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/18/2013 11:54:11 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 10:30:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
"So whose on the throne in heaven?"

God's throne (or the Throne of David) is in heaven - and there is no other throne. Jesus Christ now sits and reigns over His kingdom at the right hand of the Father on His throne.

So, Anna, we are in Jesus Christ kingdom right now? Jesus is reigning over us?

Yep. Paul was in it. The Colossians were in it. John was in it. The readers of Hebrews were in it. Those to whom Revelation was written were in it. So am I.

So, Satan runs loose in Jesus Christ kingdom or is he bound?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/19/2013 12:13:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 11:58:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/18/2013 11:54:11 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 10:30:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
"So whose on the throne in heaven?"

God's throne (or the Throne of David) is in heaven - and there is no other throne. Jesus Christ now sits and reigns over His kingdom at the right hand of the Father on His throne.

So, Anna, we are in Jesus Christ kingdom right now? Jesus is reigning over us?

Yep. Paul was in it. The Colossians were in it. John was in it. The readers of Hebrews were in it. Those to whom Revelation was written were in it. So am I.

If we are in his kingdom as you say, then flesh and blood must inherit the kingdom of got because I am flesh and blood and I can bet you are flesh and blood. The whole world is flesh and blood. Not only are you claiming that everyone alive at this moment has inherited the kingdom of God but you refuse this:

1 Corinthians 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We are still flesh and blood.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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6/19/2013 12:17:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"We are still flesh and blood."

Our spirits aren't - and the kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom. Also, the kingdom of heaven/kingdom of God occasionally refers to the final abode of the saved. When I say that I am in the kingdom, I am referring to the same kingdom that Paul and John and the rest were in while they were here on earth.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
TULIP
Posts: 398
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6/19/2013 12:18:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 11:58:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/18/2013 11:54:11 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 10:30:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
"So whose on the throne in heaven?"

God's throne (or the Throne of David) is in heaven - and there is no other throne. Jesus Christ now sits and reigns over His kingdom at the right hand of the Father on His throne.

So, Anna, we are in Jesus Christ kingdom right now? Jesus is reigning over us?

Yep. Paul was in it. The Colossians were in it. John was in it. The readers of Hebrews were in it. Those to whom Revelation was written were in it. So am I.

Hi Anna,

I wanted to ask, if we're living in Gods kingdom then why do we die? Why did Jesus tell the Pharisees, His disciples and the romans that His kingdom is not of this world? (In any of the Gospels it'll show this).. If Christ's kingdom is this world and we live in it why all of these things then? I'm not understanding this very well? :/
"We conclude that our salvation is of The Lord. He is the One who regenerates us. Those whom He regenerates come to Christ. Without regeneration no one will ever come to Christ. With regeneration no one will ever reject Him. God's saving grace effects what He intends to effect by it. ~ R. C. Sproul
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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6/19/2013 12:21:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 12:18:00 AM, TULIP wrote:
At 6/18/2013 11:58:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/18/2013 11:54:11 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 10:30:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
"So whose on the throne in heaven?"

God's throne (or the Throne of David) is in heaven - and there is no other throne. Jesus Christ now sits and reigns over His kingdom at the right hand of the Father on His throne.

So, Anna, we are in Jesus Christ kingdom right now? Jesus is reigning over us?

Yep. Paul was in it. The Colossians were in it. John was in it. The readers of Hebrews were in it. Those to whom Revelation was written were in it. So am I.

Hi Anna,

I wanted to ask, if we're living in Gods kingdom then why do we die? Why did Jesus tell the Pharisees, His disciples and the romans that His kingdom is not of this world? (In any of the Gospels it'll show this).. If Christ's kingdom is this world and we live in it why all of these things then? I'm not understanding this very well? :/

It is a spiritual kingdom. It's not "of this world" at all. It is not like the earthly kingdoms to which men were accustomed. Those Jews to whom Jesus spoke expected a kingdom over there in Jerusalem, literally - with a literal throne. The kingdom of Jesus Christ is not of this world.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
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6/19/2013 12:28:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 12:17:51 AM, annanicole wrote:
"We are still flesh and blood."

Our spirits aren't - and the kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom.

Agreed. But, you say we are in it. We die, We bleed, we hurt, we cry.
Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The former has not passed away yet.

Revelation 21
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Same earth and same heaven.

Also, the kingdom of heaven/kingdom of God occasionally refers to the final abode of the saved.:

In the heart of the earth. The same place that Lazarus and the rich man where. Still, why are their lost everywhere, more than the elect? We are not going to lead most of them to Christ or will they accept Christ. This is not the kingdom of the God I know in the scriptures, sorry.

When I say that I am in the kingdom, I am referring to the same kingdom that Paul and John and the rest were in while they were here on earth.

They seen it, no doubt. Jesus rose on the third day with power an glory. He fellowshipped 40 days with them. They did see the kingdom but they were not in it. They were flesh and blood still.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
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6/19/2013 12:39:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Agreed. But, you say we are in it. We die, We bleed, we hurt, we cry. Revelation 21:4"

Rev 21: 4 refers to heaven, the final state of our spirits. And remember, we even have a body there - just not a body of flesh and blood, but rather a changed body.

"They seen it, no doubt. Jesus rose on the third day with power an glory. He fellowshipped 40 days with them. They did see the kingdom but they were not in it. They were flesh and blood still."

No, they were I-N it:

Col 1: 12-14, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins."

and Rev 1: 9, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom, and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

John had heralded it as "at hand." Jesus had announced its approach as "at hand" and "nigh". Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea patiently waited for it. Some would not taste death until they saw it come. The disciples were taught to pray, "They kingdom come." And on and on - all the way back to the OT prophets.

Then after Pentecost, Paul says he's in it. He says the Colossians are in it. John was in it. The readers of Hebrews were it. To say that it never came as prophesied, heralded, and announced - it seems to me - makes all the prophecies and announcements a failure.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,267
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6/19/2013 12:54:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 12:13:01 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 11:58:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/18/2013 11:54:11 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 10:30:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
"So whose on the throne in heaven?"

God's throne (or the Throne of David) is in heaven - and there is no other throne. Jesus Christ now sits and reigns over His kingdom at the right hand of the Father on His throne.

So, Anna, we are in Jesus Christ kingdom right now? Jesus is reigning over us?

Yep. Paul was in it. The Colossians were in it. John was in it. The readers of Hebrews were in it. Those to whom Revelation was written were in it. So am I.

If we are in his kingdom as you say, then flesh and blood must inherit the kingdom of got because I am flesh and blood and I can bet you are flesh and blood. The whole world is flesh and blood. Not only are you claiming that everyone alive at this moment has inherited the kingdom of God but you refuse this:

1 Corinthians 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We are still flesh and blood.

Well I guess that Anna just proved old Paulo wrong. Good for her.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
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6/19/2013 12:58:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 12:39:24 AM, annanicole wrote:
"Agreed. But, you say we are in it. We die, We bleed, we hurt, we cry. Revelation 21:4"

Rev 21: 4 refers to heaven, the final state of our spirits. And remember, we even have a body there - just not a body of flesh and blood, but rather a changed body.

"They seen it, no doubt. Jesus rose on the third day with power an glory. He fellowshipped 40 days with them. They did see the kingdom but they were not in it. They were flesh and blood still."

No, they were I-N it:

Where does it say they were in it? It simply states they will be partakers of it. I will underline below.

Col 1: 12-14, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins."

This is a future tense and a present tense. Once we receive salvation and have the Holy Spirit, yes, we are partakers and we are translated. Though it is quite silly to state that it happens here on this earth while confined and in bondage of the flesh. We cannot be in the Holy Kingdom of God and also be in bondage of sin and flesh. You cannot serve two masters at the same time nor be in two kingdoms at the same time.

and Rev 1: 9, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom, and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

First, you must show how John is not one of the two witnesses in revelations in the last days of tribulation. You cannot. But we can skip that, the tribulations did begin in his day but it is still going on. Daniels prophecies are still occuring as well. John would be a companion and brother to all the elect. You are playing more here then is actually there. This can be future and present tense.

John had heralded it as "at hand." Jesus had announced its approach as "at hand" and "nigh".

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

They were not ignorant of this verse and meaning here. It would have been at hand then as well as today. The message has always been repent for you know not when Christ cometh. If Jesus comes in 3016 it would still be at hand. You are looking at it from a earthly perspective and this verse just said do not do that.

Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea patiently waited for it. Some would not taste death until they saw it come. The disciples were taught to pray, "They kingdom come." And on and on - all the way back to the OT prophets.

I just said they did see the kingdom during the 40 days Jesus was with them and when He went to glory with His father. Of course they seen it.

Then after Pentecost, Paul says he's in it. He says the Colossians are in it. John was in it. The readers of Hebrews were it. To say that it never came as prophesied, heralded, and announced - it seems to me - makes all the prophecies and announcements a failure.

How? Because you play into it more than is there then it fails. That is garbage, excuse me. To be filled with they Holy Ghost does put in the kingdom, salvation puts you in the kingdom, you are not physically there but your spirit experiences those gifts by the way of the Holy Ghost. Why would Jesus Christ need to give us the Comforter if we were just going to His kingdom anyway? That does not make any sense.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
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6/19/2013 1:00:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Nope, just pointed out that rarely the phrase "kingdom of God" refers to the final abode of the saved. That's no problem at all.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/19/2013 1:05:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 1:00:35 AM, annanicole wrote:
Nope, just pointed out that rarely the phrase "kingdom of God" refers to the final abode of the saved. That's no problem at all.

IDK my Bible does not even state final abode once. Please provide this verse or verses.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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6/19/2013 1:14:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 12:38:13 AM, Wnope wrote:
Am I the only one whose immediate answer upon seeing the threat title was:

"The f*cking Lannisters."

lol, my thoughts precisely
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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6/19/2013 1:22:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Harbinger: "Col 1: 12-14, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins." This is a future tense and a present tense. Once we receive salvation and have the Holy Spirit, yes, we are partakers and we are translated."

"Hath delivered us" and "translated us into the kingdom" are both past tense. Thus Paul was in it. Not only that, those to whom the letter was written - the "us" were in it as well.

*****

Anna: "and Rev 1: 9, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom, and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Harbinger: First, you must show how John is not one of the two witnesses in revelations in the last days of tribulation.

Anna: I do not have to "show" anything: Rev 1: 1-9 are the prologue to the vision, setting the state, before a sign or figure was ever introduced. Plus, John was simply their brother ... and companion in tribulation ...and companion in the kingdom .. and companion in patience - so the original readers of the Apocalypse were also in the kingdom. They were also in tribulation.

*****

Harbinger: "Daniels prophecies are still occuring as well."

Anna: I bet this one's not: "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." (Dan 2: 44)

*****

Anna: John had heralded it as "at hand." Jesus had announced its approach as "at hand" and "nigh".

Harbinger: 2 Peter 3:8, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

They were not ignorant of this verse and meaning here.

Anna: Sure they were! John's and Jesus's announcement of the kingdom's approach, its "come nigh unto you", its "near", its "at hand" was SPOKEN thirty years before II Peter was written. And tis an odd way of handling scripture to make the dozens of references to the impending coming of the kingdom all figurative! Just write 'em off! Just excuse it by saying, "Oh, time means nothing to God." Yeah, it does.

*****

Harbinger: "You are looking at it from a earthly perspective and this verse just said do not do that."

Anna: I do just the opposite.

*****

Harbinger: "I just said they did see the kingdom during the 40 days Jesus was with them and when He went to glory with His father. Of course they seen it."

Anna: No, they didn't - the kingdom didn't exist at that point, and Christ was not on His throne at that point - nor was He reigning at that point. The kingdom came when the power came. And the power came when the Spirit came. And all of the above came on Pentecost.

*****

Harbinger: "How? Because you play into it more than is there then it fails. That is garbage, excuse me."

Anna: Read it again:

"John had heralded it as "at hand." Jesus had announced its approach as "at hand" and "nigh". Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea patiently waited for it. Some would not taste death until they saw it come. The disciples were taught to pray, "They kingdom come." And on and on - all the way back to the OT prophets."

And what do you say? You say, "IT NEVER CAME!"

Paul said he was in it. John said he was in it. Same for the Colossians. Same for the readers of Revelation and the book of Hebrews.

And what do you say? You say, "THEY WEREN'T IN IT"

Why? Why deny - and try to write off - every statement by John and Jesus regarding the impending coming of the kingdom? Here's why:

You deny EVERY plain, literal statement of John and Jesus - and further plain, literal statements by John and Paul .... in order to LITERALIZE highly figurative language in Revelation! That's why! I'd bet the bank on it: you actually think Jesus is gonna camp out for 1,000 years over in Palestine here on this footstool. I'll ask:

DID Jesus come to set up His kingdom? And if He did, did He fail for some reason?

IS Jesus Christ reigning NOW on God's Throne - the Throne of David - as KING? Is He or not? If not, exactly what is He?

Answer those, and it should be interesting.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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6/19/2013 1:33:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 1:05:04 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/19/2013 1:00:35 AM, annanicole wrote:
Nope, just pointed out that rarely the phrase "kingdom of God" refers to the final abode of the saved. That's no problem at all.

IDK my Bible does not even state final abode once. Please provide this verse or verses.

"then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know." (John 14)

Those two verses speak of the final - the "ever be" - abode - the "there".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harbinger
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6/19/2013 4:07:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Hath delivered us" and "translated us into the kingdom" are both past tense. Thus Paul was in it. Not only that, those to whom the letter was written - the "us" were in it as well.

It is not past tense at all. It is a present tense. Hath means a present have. We are not going to disagree that Jesus has overcome death and the grave and in Him we do also. What we will disagree on is that we are still flesh and blood, we still are under the curse of sin, we are in bondage of death and the grave in the physical body.

*****

Anna: I do not have to "show" anything: Rev 1: 1-9 are the prologue to the vision, setting the state, before a sign or figure was ever introduced. Plus, John was simply their brother ... and companion in tribulation ...and companion in the kingdom .. and companion in patience - so the original readers of the Apocalypse were also in the kingdom. They were also in tribulation.

To make a claim you very well must show something or we can just ignore Anna and everything she says. Jesus Christ has overcome death and the grave and the Holy Ghost is conquering and spreading the gospel throughout the world.

*****

Anna: I bet this one's not: "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." (Dan 2: 44)

Physically or Spiritually? Is satan still ruling spiritually in earthly kingdoms?

*****

Anna: John had heralded it as "at hand." Jesus had announced its approach as "at hand" and "nigh".

Harbinger: 2 Peter 3:8, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

They were not ignorant of this verse and meaning here.

Anna: Sure they were! John's and Jesus's announcement of the kingdom's approach, its "come nigh unto you", its "near", its "at hand" was SPOKEN thirty years before II Peter was written. And tis an odd way of handling scripture to make the dozens of references to the impending coming of the kingdom all figurative! Just write 'em off! Just excuse it by saying, "Oh, time means nothing to God." Yeah, it does.

Who said it means nothing? You did. No one over here had said no such thing. What was said is that time is not what Anna wants it to be. The verse above very well tells you that times are not just earthly but heavenly. One thousand years is but one day. They were not ignorant and they told us not to be as well.

*****

Harbinger: "You are looking at it from a earthly perspective and this verse just said do not do that."

Anna: I do just the opposite.

So, you look at things earthly? IDK I cannot tell.

*****

Harbinger: "I just said they did see the kingdom during the 40 days Jesus was with them and when He went to glory with His father. Of course they seen it."

Anna: No, they didn't - the kingdom didn't exist at that point, and Christ was not on His throne at that point - nor was He reigning at that point. The kingdom came when the power came. And the power came when the Spirit came. And all of the above came on Pentecost.

So, the Holy Ghost brought the kingdom with Him? While we are flesh and blood?

*****

And what do you say? You say, "IT NEVER CAME!"And what do you say? You say, "THEY WEREN'T IN IT"Paul said he was in it. John said he was in it. Same for the Colossians. Same for the readers of Revelation and the book of Hebrews.

I have stated that to be in that kingdom, no flesh and blood will be in it. But you suggest we are in it while being also flesh and blood. You still have not offered an explanation for this.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Why? Why deny - and try to write off

Im not, you are looking right past the verses above. You have yet to make sense of it with scripture. All we got is an Anna interpretation with not one scripture to verify it.

You deny EVERY plain, literal statement of John and Jesus - and further plain, literal statements by John and Paul .... in order to LITERALIZE highly figurative language in Revelation! That's why! I'd bet the bank on it: you actually think Jesus is gonna camp out for 1,000 years over in Palestine here on this footstool. I'll ask:

Oh.. I see know Anna, it is literal only when Anna wants it to be literal. Ohh..no..Revelations is not literal unless it fits Anna's beliefs. So, Anna believes that Revelations is not talking about a literal 1,000 year reign, ohh...no.

Revelation 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4, And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5, But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7, And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Ohh... no this is not literal.

DID Jesus come to set up His kingdom?

Jesus came to save all from their sins. The Holy Ghost came and is conquering the earth. He is establishing the kingdom of God on earth for the thousand year reign of Christ. The physical earth will pass away and a spiritual kingdom will remain.

And if He did, did He fail for some reason?

Your saying it is in rule as we speak with death, hunger, pain, and satan bound. IDK what your saying really. You have truth mixed with confusion. You say Christ kingdom is spiritual, which I agree, you say it is now reigning on earth, even the Bible says no blood and flesh can be in it, we are blood and flesh. You claim it is reigning on earth now, while death is still prevailent. Explain Anna.

IS Jesus Christ reigning NOW on God's Throne

Of course, does that mean His Kingdom has come down to men? Or does that mean His kingdom is in heaven in whcih He is preparing for us and it will come down to earth and all things physical will pass away?
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
annanicole
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6/19/2013 11:53:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Harbinger: It is not past tense at all. It is a present tense. Hath means a present have.

Anna: Oh, c'mon. "Hath delivered" and "hath translated" are present perfect tense, the combination of has/have/hath with a PAST PARTICIPLE. Is that true or false?

If true, a present perfect verb is "a grammatical combination of the present tense and the perfect aspect, used to express a past event that has present consequences." Is that true or false?

If that's true, then the present perfect tense in Col 1: 13 expresses a PAST EVENT. Paul and the Colossians were IN the kingdom - not anticipating it.

*****

Harbinger: "What we will disagree on is that we are still flesh and blood, we still are under the curse of sin, we are in bondage of death and the grave in the physical body."

Anna: Disagree on whether we are still flesh and blood? Of course we are. We also possess a spirit. Certainly we are still under the curse of sin - we die physically. That has nothing to do with whether the kingdom came into existence on Pentecost or not. You seem to be trying to refer to a heavenly state.

*****

Harbinger: "To make a claim you very well must show something or we can just ignore Anna and everything she says."

Anna: Oh, I did:

"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom, and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

That should be enough. John was the companion of readers of Revelation in the kingdom. Hence, the first-century readers were in the kingdom, too - along with John.

You need to substantiate any relevancy pertaining to "you must show how John is not one of the two witnesses in revelations in the last days of tribulation." I sure can't see any. If John was in the kingdom (and he said he was) and the first-century readers of the Apocalypse were his companions in the kingdom (and he said they were) -- what difference does it make?

*****

Harbinger: "the tribulations did begin in his day but it is still going on."

Anna: You'll have to prove that THE tribulation to which John referred is still occurring - not that "tribulations" are still occurring. And whether they are or not is irrelevant: John was still in the kingdom.

*****

Harbinger: "John would be a companion and brother to all the elect."

Anna: So? Regardless, he was a companion in the kingdom to all the elect in the first century; hence, the kingdom existed in the first century.

*****

Anna: I bet this one's not: "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." (Dan 2: 44)

Harbinger: Physically or Spiritually? Is satan still ruling spiritually in earthly kingdoms?

Anna: Satan is by no means ruling over the church, the kingdom of Jesus Christ. He might very well rule over other "kingdoms", but Christ reigns on His throne as the head of the church, the King of His kingdom.

*****

Harbinger: "What was said is that time is not what Anna wants it to be. The verse above very well tells you that times are not just earthly but heavenly. One thousand years is but one day."

Anna: LOL How many days was Jesus in the borrowed tomb?

When Jesus told his disciples, "For John truly baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence" - how long was that?

You get the point: there's not a single instance of "at hand" ... "nigh unto you" ... etc. meaning thousands of years. In fact, John and Jesus said, "The time is fulfilled."

Your whole deal is: Daniel prophesied it, John announced it, Jesus heralded it, Jesus commissioned the twelve to go preach 'the kingdom is at hand', Jesus taught His disciples to pray for it - and on and on and on, and you sit right there and say, "Everybody missed it. It wasn't 'at hand'. They all forgot that time means nothing to God."

Harbinger: "I have stated that to be in that kingdom, no flesh and blood will be in it."

Anna: Of course not - not in heaven. Do you think that's the only reference to the kingdom? It's the LEAST common reference. I know full well that flesh and blood will not be in HEAVEN.

*****

Anna: You deny EVERY plain, literal statement of John and Jesus - and further plain, literal statements by John and Paul .... in order to LITERALIZE highly figurative language in Revelation! That's why! I'd bet the bank on it: you actually think Jesus is gonna camp out for 1,000 years over in Palestine here on this footstool. I'll ask:

Harbinger: Oh.. I see know Anna, it is literal only when Anna wants it to be literal. Ohh..no..Revelations is not literal unless it fits Anna's beliefs. So, Anna believes that Revelations is not talking about a literal 1,000 year reign, ohh...no.

Anna: And of course, the only reason anyone would flat-out deny that the kingdom of Jesus Christ present right now is ..... just exactly what I said.

*****

Anna: DID Jesus come to set up His kingdom?

Harbinger: Jesus came to save all from their sins. The Holy Ghost came and is conquering the earth. He is establishing the kingdom of God on earth for the thousand year reign of Christ. The physical earth will pass away and a spiritual kingdom will remain.

Anna: Answer the question. Even the Jews knew the answer to that one. He either came to set up His kingdom, or He didn't. Which is it?

*****

Harbinger: " You say Christ kingdom is spiritual, which I agree, you say it is now reigning on earth, even the Bible says no blood and flesh can be in it, we are blood and flesh."

Anna: Sir, you are continually confuting and confusing HEAVEN, which is occasionally called the "kingdom of heaven" with the far more common use of the phrase. When Jesus said, "Repent for the kingdom is at hand", he wasn't referring to HEAVEN.

*****

Anna: IS Jesus Christ reigning NOW on God's Throne

Harbinger: Of course, does that mean His Kingdom has come down to men? Or does that mean His kingdom is in heaven in whcih He is preparing for us and it will come down to earth and all things physical will pass away?

Anna: So Jesus Christ is reigning. He is King. He is sitting on His throne. Well, there's no such thing as a King without a kingdom. Who's He reigning over? Who are His subjects?

I have a strange feeling that you are confusing the heavenly state - that place that Jesus is preparing for us - with His kingdom here on earth. That's why you can't figure out how Paul was in the kingdom - yet he was still flesh and blood. And the whole Colossian church was in the kingdom - yet they were still flesh and blood.

When Jesus said commissioned the twelve, saying, "And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand", He wasn't referring to heaven. Jesus Christ did not erroneously believe that the end of time was near. He was talking about the kingdom that He came here to establish.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."