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Christian Universalism Part 3

rjohnson741
Posts: 215
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6/18/2013 2:32:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In my first two threads 'Christian Universalism' and 'Christian Universalism Part 2', I supported Christian Universalism based on the scriptures. In this thread, I will support Christian Universalism based on philosophical, and theological reasons.

Christian Universalism is the only theology that deals adequately with the theodicy of evil.

In orthodox christianity, sin, death and evil are never eradicated from the universe. Sin, death and evil are just contained in a central locality called eternal hell or the lake of fire where they will exist forever. Eternal sin, eternal death, eternal hate, eternal enemies, eternal rebellion, and eternal evil exists forever right along with goodness and love.

In Christian Universalism, sin death and evil are eradicated When God restores His creation. God restores His creation by vivifying and giving mankind immortality, and reconciling all things in heaven and on earth.

According to orthodox christianity, God creates evil(Calvinisn) or allowed evil(Armianism) into the universe where it will exist forever.

In Christian Universalism, God creates evil for a good purpose and as a backdrop to display the brightness of His glory, love and goodness. After that, God will eradicate evil at Consummation.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/18/2013 2:38:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:32:38 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
In my first two threads 'Christian Universalism' and 'Christian Universalism Part 2', I supported Christian Universalism based on the scriptures. In this thread, I will support Christian Universalism based on philosophical, and theological reasons.

Christian Universalism is the only theology that deals adequately with the theodicy of evil.

In orthodox christianity, sin, death and evil are never eradicated from the universe. Sin, death and evil are just contained in a central locality called eternal hell or the lake of fire where they will exist forever. Eternal sin, eternal death, eternal hate, eternal enemies, eternal rebellion, and eternal evil exists forever right along with goodness and love.

In Christian Universalism, sin death and evil are eradicated When God restores His creation. God restores His creation by vivifying and giving mankind immortality, and reconciling all things in heaven and on earth.

According to orthodox christianity, God creates evil(Calvinisn) or allowed evil(Armianism) into the universe where it will exist forever.

In Christian Universalism, God creates evil for a good purpose and as a backdrop to display the brightness of His glory, love and goodness. After that, God will eradicate evil at Consummation.

The trouble is that you cannot defend it from the scriptures without twisting the meanings of some and contradicting others. The scriptures are full of examples of God choosing between people, from Genesis to Revelation.

Scripturally Universal Salvation is a non starter, and since scripture is the only thing that counts, since it is all Christ and the Apostles had to teach from.........

Philosophy is a dangerous game since it is the words of men not of God, and God's viewpoint is the only one that counts in the end because it is His plan and no-one else's.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/18/2013 2:45:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:32:38 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:

In orthodox christianity, sin, death and evil are never eradicated from the universe. Sin, death and evil are just contained in a central locality called eternal hell or the lake of fire where they will exist forever. Eternal sin, eternal death, eternal hate, eternal enemies, eternal rebellion, and eternal evil exists forever right along with goodness and love.

That's because orthodox Christianity, which is not in fact Christianity as Christ and the Apostles taught it also ignore scripture, and they do so to their peril. Christianity moved away from the teachings of Christ at the end of the 1st century, and has continued to drift ever further away since.

The only thing that counts is scripture, the whole of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. Nothing else can give us God's own truth.

Don't stray into Philosophy, you will only get dragged away by Satan's influence.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/18/2013 2:46:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:45:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The only thing that counts is scripture, the whole of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. Nothing else can give us God's own truth.

Well. You know. Except God.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/18/2013 2:57:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:46:40 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/18/2013 2:45:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The only thing that counts is scripture, the whole of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. Nothing else can give us God's own truth.

Well. You know. Except God.

Yes, but scripture is His medium for doing it, that and the understanding He gives to those He chooses through holy spirit.
rjohnson741
Posts: 215
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6/18/2013 5:00:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:38:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/18/2013 2:32:38 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
In my first two threads 'Christian Universalism' and 'Christian Universalism Part 2', I supported Christian Universalism based on the scriptures. In this thread, I will support Christian Universalism based on philosophical, and theological reasons.

Christian Universalism is the only theology that deals adequately with the theodicy of evil.

In orthodox christianity, sin, death and evil are never eradicated from the universe. Sin, death and evil are just contained in a central locality called eternal hell or the lake of fire where they will exist forever. Eternal sin, eternal death, eternal hate, eternal enemies, eternal rebellion, and eternal evil exists forever right along with goodness and love.

In Christian Universalism, sin death and evil are eradicated When God restores His creation. God restores His creation by vivifying and giving mankind immortality, and reconciling all things in heaven and on earth.

According to orthodox christianity, God creates evil(Calvinisn) or allowed evil(Armianism) into the universe where it will exist forever.

In Christian Universalism, God creates evil for a good purpose and as a backdrop to display the brightness of His glory, love and goodness. After that, God will eradicate evil at Consummation.

The trouble is that you cannot defend it from the scriptures without twisting the meanings of some and contradicting others. The scriptures are full of examples of God choosing between people, from Genesis to Revelation.

Scripturally Universal Salvation is a non starter, and since scripture is the only thing that counts, since it is all Christ and the Apostles had to teach from.........

Philosophy is a dangerous game since it is the words of men not of God, and God's viewpoint is the only one that counts in the end because it is His plan and no-one else's.

You didn't even address the OP. Having said that, I can reverse your argument and say this---
The trouble is that you cannot defend annihilation or eternal torment from the scriptures without twisting the meanings of some and contradicting others. There in not one properly translated scripture in the Bible that support your unbiblical dogmas of annihilation and eternal torment.

The scriptures are full of examples of God reconciling everyone and God saving everyone from Genesis to Revelation.

Scripturally annihilation and eternal torment are non starters, and since scripture is the only thing that counts, since it is all Christ and the Apostles had to teach from.....

Philosophy is not dangerous to people who are open minded, and are sincerely searching for truth.
Philosophy is only dangerous to closed minded people who are afraid to use their God given conscience to question any doctrine of the church.
MadCornishBiker, philosophy is not dangerous. Jesus Christ was the greatest Philosopher of all time---'Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord' Isaiah 1:18. Philosophy is asking questions to provoke thought. Jesus Christ ask his disciples and the multitudes numerous questions to provoke them into thinking in line with their God given consciences:

Parable of the lost sheep---'What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he finds it?' Luke 15:4.
This is just one of the many times through out Jesus ministry where he asked questions. And His disciples asked questions of Him as well:

'Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, until seventy times seven' Matthew 18:21-22.

So not only does God want us to ask Him questions, he invites us to ask Him questions. This is one way and of course through scripture we learn about God and His purpose for us.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/18/2013 5:19:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:45:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Don't stray into Philosophy, you will only get dragged away by Satan's influence.

(-_-)
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/18/2013 5:46:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:32:38 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
In my first two threads 'Christian Universalism' and 'Christian Universalism Part 2', I supported Christian Universalism based on the scriptures.

When? Where was this? IDK must have been a delusion.

In this thread, I will support Christian Universalism based on philosophical, and theological reasons.

This is what was done in the other two threads.

Christian Universalism is the only theology that deals adequately with the theodicy of evil.

No, it deals with self comfort. It deals with, if I do not like it or am comfortable with it, lets distort the Word of God to make is nice and pretty.

In orthodox christianity, sin, death and evil are never eradicated from the universe. Sin, death and evil are just contained in a central locality called eternal hell or the lake of fire where they will exist forever. Eternal sin, eternal death, eternal hate, eternal enemies, eternal rebellion, and eternal evil exists forever right along with goodness and love.

False. Just false. Here comes the unBiblical opinion again. This is an on occuring theme for you.

In Christian Universalism, sin death and evil are eradicated When God restores His creation. God restores His creation by vivifying and giving mankind immortality, and reconciling all things in heaven and on earth.

I know it, Jesus Christ is a useless concept for you. In you view Jesus Christ is useless, we do not need salavtion through Him because we will all go to heaven anyway.

According to orthodox christianity, God creates evil(Calvinisn) or allowed evil(Armianism) into the universe where it will exist forever.

God did not create evil, creations did.

In Christian Universalism, God creates evil for a good purpose and as a backdrop to display the brightness of His glory, love and goodness. After that, God will eradicate evil at Consummation.

God did not create evil, creations did through free-will.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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6/18/2013 6:23:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 5:00:24 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:

You didn't even address the OP. Having said that, I can reverse your argument and say this---
The trouble is that you cannot defend annihilation or eternal torment from the scriptures without twisting the meanings of some and contradicting others. There in not one properly translated scripture in the Bible that support your unbiblical dogmas of annihilation and eternal torment.

The scriptures are full of examples of God reconciling everyone and God saving everyone from Genesis to Revelation.

Scripturally annihilation and eternal torment are non starters, and since scripture is the only thing that counts, since it is all Christ and the Apostles had to teach from.....

Philosophy is not dangerous to people who are open minded, and are sincerely searching for truth.
Philosophy is only dangerous to closed minded people who are afraid to use their God given conscience to question any doctrine of the church.
MadCornishBiker, philosophy is not dangerous. Jesus Christ was the greatest Philosopher of all time---'Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord' Isaiah 1:18. Philosophy is asking questions to provoke thought. Jesus Christ ask his disciples and the multitudes numerous questions to provoke them into thinking in line with their God given consciences:

Parable of the lost sheep---'What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he finds it?' Luke 15:4.
This is just one of the many times through out Jesus ministry where he asked questions. And His disciples asked questions of Him as well:

'Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, until seventy times seven' Matthew 18:21-22.

Yes and you notice Christ still didnt say "as often as he likes" he still put a limit on it, and God has been sinned against by many millions of times over the centuries. How much longer will He put up with it? Not much longer.

So not only does God want us to ask Him questions, he invites us to ask Him questions. This is one way and of course through scripture we learn about God and His purpose for us.

That is true. God does ant us to ask questions, just as Jesus did when on earth. The trouble is most people, you for instance, fell they already know better., and that is precisely why Jesus said that people like you would perish if they continue on the same course.

You have a very strange view of scripture. How can one take anything you say seriously when you use such spurious and self-evidently false argumentation.

One only has to pick up a bible and read it to now how obviously foolish your viewpoint is.

Universal Salvation is the cowards way out. It is people like you telling God what He thinks and what He should do.

He tells us, not the other way round.

Well learn from the Pharisees. They thought they could do that and Jesus told them there was no way they could escape Gehenna - eternal destruction.

Sorry, but there it is. Scripture completely denies what you teach.
rjohnson741
Posts: 215
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6/18/2013 7:16:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 6:23:23 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:00:24 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:

You didn't even address the OP. Having said that, I can reverse your argument and say this---
The trouble is that you cannot defend annihilation or eternal torment from the scriptures without twisting the meanings of some and contradicting others. There in not one properly translated scripture in the Bible that support your unbiblical dogmas of annihilation and eternal torment.

The scriptures are full of examples of God reconciling everyone and God saving everyone from Genesis to Revelation.

Scripturally annihilation and eternal torment are non starters, and since scripture is the only thing that counts, since it is all Christ and the Apostles had to teach from.....

Philosophy is not dangerous to people who are open minded, and are sincerely searching for truth.
Philosophy is only dangerous to closed minded people who are afraid to use their God given conscience to question any doctrine of the church.
MadCornishBiker, philosophy is not dangerous. Jesus Christ was the greatest Philosopher of all time---'Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord' Isaiah 1:18. Philosophy is asking questions to provoke thought. Jesus Christ ask his disciples and the multitudes numerous questions to provoke them into thinking in line with their God given consciences:

Parable of the lost sheep---'What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he finds it?' Luke 15:4.
This is just one of the many times through out Jesus ministry where he asked questions. And His disciples asked questions of Him as well:

'Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, until seventy times seven' Matthew 18:21-22.

Yes and you notice Christ still didnt say "as often as he likes" he still put a limit on it, and God has been sinned against by many millions of times over the centuries. How much longer will He put up with it? Not much longer.

So not only does God want us to ask Him questions, he invites us to ask Him questions. This is one way and of course through scripture we learn about God and His purpose for us.

That is true. God does ant us to ask questions, just as Jesus did when on earth. The trouble is most people, you for instance, fell they already know better., and that is precisely why Jesus said that people like you would perish if they continue on the same course.

You have a very strange view of scripture. How can one take anything you say seriously when you use such spurious and self-evidently false argumentation.

One only has to pick up a bible and read it to now how obviously foolish your viewpoint is.

Universal Salvation is the cowards way out. It is people like you telling God what He thinks and what He should do.

He tells us, not the other way round.

Well learn from the Pharisees. They thought they could do that and Jesus told them there was no way they could escape Gehenna - eternal destruction.

Sorry, but there it is. Scripture completely denies what you teach.

Forgiving seventy times seven is Jesus telling His disciples that they should always forgive their brother. God's mercy is abundant, overflowing and lasts always.

You are arguing from silence without scripturally refuting anything I have said. That's called fallicious argumentation. I can use your own words and use your own fallicious argument against you:

You have a strange view of scripture. How can one take anything you say seriously when you use such spurious and self-evidently false argumentation.

One only has to pick up a bible and read it to know how obviously foolish your viewpoint is.

Annihilation and eternal torment are the cowards way out. It is people like you telling God what He thinks and what He should do.

He tells us, not the other way around.

Well learn from the Pharisees. They thought they could do that and Jesus told them there was no way they could escape Gehenna - eonian destruction.

Sorry, but there it is. Scripture completely denies what you teach.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/18/2013 8:16:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 6:23:23 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:00:24 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
'Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, until seventy times seven' Matthew 18:21-22.

Yes and you notice Christ still didnt say "as often as he likes" he still put a limit on it, and God has been sinned against by many millions of times over the centuries. How much longer will He put up with it? Not much longer.

So you really think God wants us to count how many times we forgive somebody and at the 491st time not forgive them? Clearly the idea behind this is unlimited.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/18/2013 8:19:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 7:16:58 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
Universal Salvation is the cowards way out. It is people like you telling God what He thinks and what He should do.

He tells us, not the other way round.

How is that the cowards way out? I've never met any Christian who believes in an eternal hell and actually wishes that was case. To clarify, I have not met a Christian that says, "Man I really hope God punishes these people for eternity."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/18/2013 8:32:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 8:19:09 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 7:16:58 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
Universal Salvation is the cowards way out. It is people like you telling God what He thinks and what He should do.

He tells us, not the other way round.

How is that the cowards way out? I've never met any Christian who believes in an eternal hell and actually wishes that was case. To clarify, I have not met a Christian that says, "Man I really hope God punishes these people for eternity."

Correct. I believe in eternal but I surely hate it and wish they did not receive it but I understand that is their choice for rejecting the Word of God.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/18/2013 8:51:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:32:38 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
In my first two threads 'Christian Universalism' and 'Christian Universalism Part 2', I supported Christian Universalism based on the scriptures. In this thread, I will support Christian Universalism based on philosophical, and theological reasons.

Christian Universalism is the only theology that deals adequately with the theodicy of evil.

In orthodox christianity, sin, death and evil are never eradicated from the universe. Sin, death and evil are just contained in a central locality called eternal hell or the lake of fire where they will exist forever. Eternal sin, eternal death, eternal hate, eternal enemies, eternal rebellion, and eternal evil exists forever right along with goodness and love.

In Christian Universalism, sin death and evil are eradicated When God restores His creation. God restores His creation by vivifying and giving mankind immortality, and reconciling all things in heaven and on earth.

According to orthodox christianity, God creates evil(Calvinisn) or allowed evil(Armianism) into the universe where it will exist forever.

In Christian Universalism, God creates evil for a good purpose and as a backdrop to display the brightness of His glory, love and goodness. After that, God will eradicate evil at Consummation.

You are teaching another Jesus and another gospel from the true Word inspired and held together by the Spirit and that is clear.

2 Corinthians 11:1, "Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

You are playing the harlot.

Genesis 38:24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first.

You make war with the truth Word of God by looking for false meanings and changing the inspired Word of the Spirit.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/18/2013 9:01:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 8:32:57 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 8:19:09 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 7:16:58 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
Universal Salvation is the cowards way out. It is people like you telling God what He thinks and what He should do.

He tells us, not the other way round.

How is that the cowards way out? I've never met any Christian who believes in an eternal hell and actually wishes that was case. To clarify, I have not met a Christian that says, "Man I really hope God punishes these people for eternity."

Correct. I believe in eternal but I surely hate it and wish they did not receive it but I understand that is their choice for rejecting the Word of God.

"There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of Our Lord's own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason."

C.S Lewis
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/18/2013 9:03:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 9:01:05 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 8:32:57 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 8:19:09 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 7:16:58 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
Universal Salvation is the cowards way out. It is people like you telling God what He thinks and what He should do.

He tells us, not the other way round.

How is that the cowards way out? I've never met any Christian who believes in an eternal hell and actually wishes that was case. To clarify, I have not met a Christian that says, "Man I really hope God punishes these people for eternity."

Correct. I believe in eternal but I surely hate it and wish they did not receive it but I understand that is their choice for rejecting the Word of God.

"There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of Our Lord's own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason."

C.S Lewis

I would not remove it but I understand what he is saying and agree. Good quote and all, I just use the scriptures to quote from. They have power.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/18/2013 9:10:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 9:03:50 PM, Harbinger wrote:
I would not remove it but I understand what he is saying and agree. Good quote and all, I just use the scriptures to quote from. They have power.

You said you hate it. Why would you not remove it if you could?
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/18/2013 9:14:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 9:10:16 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:03:50 PM, Harbinger wrote:
I would not remove it but I understand what he is saying and agree. Good quote and all, I just use the scriptures to quote from. They have power.

You said you hate it. Why would you not remove it if you could?

I may have said that wrong. I hate the decision by those who refuse God. I do not hate them, I hate the sin and refusal they make. I sure do not think they deserve paradise.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/18/2013 9:42:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 9:01:05 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 8:32:57 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 8:19:09 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 7:16:58 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
Universal Salvation is the cowards way out. It is people like you telling God what He thinks and what He should do.

He tells us, not the other way round.

How is that the cowards way out? I've never met any Christian who believes in an eternal hell and actually wishes that was case. To clarify, I have not met a Christian that says, "Man I really hope God punishes these people for eternity."

Correct. I believe in eternal but I surely hate it and wish they did not receive it but I understand that is their choice for rejecting the Word of God.

"There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of Our Lord's own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason."

C.S Lewis

C.S. Lewis was brilliant and he offers the most plausible account there is (imo) of how there could be an eternal hell (that Jerry Walls builds on admirably) but I'm going to be bold here and say he was utterly wrong from the second sentence on. It actually amazes me he made such a statement because George Macdonald was his spiritual mentor and had a huge influence on his theology yet Macdonald was an avowed universalist through and through. As far as I know, Lewis didn't think universalism was heretical, so it puzzles me that he would make such a strong statement.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/18/2013 9:44:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 9:14:23 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:10:16 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:03:50 PM, Harbinger wrote:
I would not remove it but I understand what he is saying and agree. Good quote and all, I just use the scriptures to quote from. They have power.

You said you hate it. Why would you not remove it if you could?

I may have said that wrong. I hate the decision by those who refuse God. I do not hate them, I hate the sin and refusal they make. I sure do not think they deserve paradise.

None of us "deserve" paradise; what does that have to do with the main contention at hand?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/18/2013 9:54:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 9:44:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:14:23 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:10:16 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:03:50 PM, Harbinger wrote:
I would not remove it but I understand what he is saying and agree. Good quote and all, I just use the scriptures to quote from. They have power.

You said you hate it. Why would you not remove it if you could?

I may have said that wrong. I hate the decision by those who refuse God. I do not hate them, I hate the sin and refusal they make. I sure do not think they deserve paradise.

None of us "deserve" paradise; what does that have to do with the main contention :
I accept the Son of God, Jesus Christ and His gospel given in His life, sacrifice, and through the Comforter the Holy Ghost, they seem to think those who do accept them and the Word of God are redeemed and blameless and worthy of glory in Christ. They seem to think the elect do deserve paradise and those who reject it are not worthy and never will be. Maybe we have a different God, savior, an gospel. It appears so.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/18/2013 10:36:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 9:44:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:14:23 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:10:16 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/18/2013 9:03:50 PM, Harbinger wrote:
I would not remove it but I understand what he is saying and agree. Good quote and all, I just use the scriptures to quote from. They have power.

You said you hate it. Why would you not remove it if you could?

I may have said that wrong. I hate the decision by those who refuse God. I do not hate them, I hate the sin and refusal they make. I sure do not think they deserve paradise.

None of us "deserve" paradise; what does that have to do with the main contention at hand?

agree completly
rjohnson741
Posts: 215
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7/7/2013 9:35:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:32:38 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
In my first two threads 'Christian Universalism' and 'Christian Universalism Part 2', I supported Christian Universalism based on the scriptures. In this thread, I will support Christian Universalism based on philosophical, and theological reasons.

Christian Universalism is the only theology that deals adequately with the theodicy of evil.

In orthodox christianity, sin, death and evil are never eradicated from the universe. Sin, death and evil are just contained in a central locality called eternal hell or the lake of fire where they will exist forever. Eternal sin, eternal death, eternal hate, eternal enemies, eternal rebellion, and eternal evil exists forever right along with goodness and love.

In Christian Universalism, sin death and evil are eradicated When God restores His creation. God restores His creation by vivifying and giving mankind immortality, and reconciling all things in heaven and on earth.

According to orthodox christianity, God creates evil(Calvinisn) or allowed evil(Armianism) into the universe where it will exist forever.

In Christian Universalism, God creates evil for a good purpose and as a backdrop to display the brightness of His glory, love and goodness. After that, God will eradicate evil at Consummation.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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7/7/2013 10:13:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 5:19:39 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2013 2:45:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Don't stray into Philosophy, you will only get dragged away by Satan's influence.

(-_-)

I can't even imagine how frustrating most Christians must be to you ;)
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.