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Did God really sacrifice anything?

ldchris1
Posts: 5
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6/19/2013 4:09:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am finally going to ask something which has been bugging me from the day I was first scared into believing the Bible through the time I finally decided it was nonsense and all the way until right now.

In the Bible, God sends his only son to die for us on the cross. This was always put to me as being 'like a father sacrificing his son for the good of the nation'. But hold on a minute. When a father sacrifices his son for the nation, he loses a piece of his genetic legacy to the world, which God did not do. He also will never see his son again at least until he dies if you believe that, Jesus went straight from earth back to God, if anything, God brought him home after a 33 year absence (which in terms of infinite existence is a blink of the eye).

Lets turn to what Jesus actually sacrificed. The thing most people fear about death is its uncertainty. Christians never tire of reminding me that I don't know what happens after death. But if Jesus was god then he did know for certain what happens after death, so, nothing to fear. I admit it must have been a terrible, torturous way to die, but if he knew for absolute certain that after these few days of hell lay an eternity of paradise then I think most of us would be able to do the same thing (pre empting an argument here: NO, you do not KNOW that you are going to heaven either).

So really the Bible should read like so: 'For God so loved the world that he sent his only son for a total of 33 years and then brought him straight back, sacrificing nothing in the process'

Just to be clear, I'm not debating the whole scape goat thing here. Just the idea that either God or Jesus really sacrificed anything at all for the human race. For the life of me I cant understand why I've never heard anyone ask this question before
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/19/2013 6:37:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus for sure didn't die for anybody's sin, I believe his death and rising were just a preparation for him to ascend to get ready for his next mission on earth, for he isn't in paradise yet.

People still need to deserve God love, meaning to love God first and keep his commands by following the path of Jesus, so I don't see (even if we accept the death as sacrifice) what is the sacrifice for ?!

Also, and according to the Gospels , Jesus never said he is sacrificing his life for people or anything that the Christians went to believe, you find this only on the narrator mouth, not on Jesus mouth.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/19/2013 7:09:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 6:54:55 PM, drafterman wrote:
God sacrificed as much as a billionaire would if he lost a penny then found it again 3 days later.

Fair enough lol
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/19/2013 7:40:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 6:37:31 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Jesus for sure didn't die for anybody's sin,

That sure was not His message.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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6/20/2013 1:19:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/19/2013 6:54:55 PM, drafterman wrote:
God sacrificed as much as a billionaire would if he lost a penny then found it again 3 days later.

What if he's extremely stingy?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/20/2013 1:08:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 1:19:14 AM, phantom wrote:
At 6/19/2013 6:54:55 PM, drafterman wrote:
God sacrificed as much as a billionaire would if he lost a penny then found it again 3 days later.

What if he's extremely stingy?

Well, he's a billionaire that is claiming we should all worship him over a temporarily lost penny. His stinginess is a given!
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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6/20/2013 5:16:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 1:08:38 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/20/2013 1:19:14 AM, phantom wrote:
At 6/19/2013 6:54:55 PM, drafterman wrote:
God sacrificed as much as a billionaire would if he lost a penny then found it again 3 days later.

What if he's extremely stingy?

Well, he's a billionaire that is claiming we should all worship him over a temporarily lost penny. His stinginess is a given!

So he must have suffered terribly then.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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6/20/2013 5:34:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There are 2 main ways theologians interpret this;

1.) Jesus died, went to hell in order to offer the dead a chance to repent, and than returned to earn, and than ascended to heaven.
2.) Jesus needed to be stripped of his mortal flesh in order to ascend, thus Jesus was sacrificing his mortal body. (agnostic view)

I have 3 alternative theories. The first 2 theories deal the title "son of god". Either Jesus was one of the many sons of god mentioned in the old testament (Bene Elohim), or he was a member of the Essenes. This would completely change the context of the new testament.
The third theory is that because Jesus died before fulfilling the requirements of the savior, as specified in Daniel's prophecy, his followers had to devise a cover story. The cover story being, that he had to die for our sins than be reborn to fulfill the rest of the requirements.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/21/2013 12:27:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 5:34:03 PM, DanT wrote:
There are 2 main ways theologians interpret this;

1.) Jesus died, went to hell in order to offer the dead a chance to repent, and than returned to earn, and than ascended to heaven.
2.) Jesus needed to be stripped of his mortal flesh in order to ascend, thus Jesus was sacrificing his mortal body. (agnostic view)

I have 3 alternative theories. The first 2 theories deal the title "son of god". Either Jesus was one of the many sons of god mentioned in the old testament (Bene Elohim), or he was a member of the Essenes. This would completely change the context of the new testament.

This is not plausible from a biblical perspective based upon John 3:16

The third theory is that because Jesus died before fulfilling the requirements of the savior, as specified in Daniel's prophecy, his followers had to devise a cover story. The cover story being, that he had to die for our sins than be reborn to fulfill the rest of the requirements.