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The Trinity

medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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6/20/2013 4:32:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm aware of the arguments for and against the Trinity, but I have to be honest here, I can't grasp the concept well enough to try and explain, defend, or argue against it. Many Christians seem to be able to understand it and that bugs me because I just can't wrap my head around it, and make it make sense to me. It's not that I'm disputing the Trinity, it's just that I'm at a loss for understanding the concept of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the same, yet separate.

Though I wish I had the understanding, I've come to believe that it's just a matter of faith. I believe that God knows that we can barely understand ourselves as mortal beings, so how can we understand such matters of spirit??

Christians, am I missing the answer in Scripture, or is this indeed understanding that we, as physical beings, cannot attain??
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/20/2013 4:57:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So you don't fully understand the trinity? Just like every Christian ever haha. But seriously, yeah the trinity is blurry to me as well.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/20/2013 4:58:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ok , I know you speak to Christians but I couldn't keep away.

I don't think God would reveal something none can understand. and more importantly, hide it form the generations before you guys?! why it was forbidden to associate partners with God before Christ, then suddenly, it became the trend ?! who did Jesus worship ? what does it mean that he is the Way, and the way to whom or to what ?

Well the verses where he says that he and the father are one, why do they need to be interpreted as if he claims he is God, why isn't it simply that he is with God?!

I'm under control don't worry.
stubs
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6/20/2013 5:04:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 4:58:48 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Ok , I know you speak to Christians but I couldn't keep away.

I don't think God would reveal something none can understand. and more importantly, hide it form the generations before you guys?! why it was forbidden to associate partners with God before Christ, then suddenly, it became the trend ?! who did Jesus worship ? what does it mean that he is the Way, and the way to whom or to what ?

Well the verses where he says that he and the father are one, why do they need to be interpreted as if he claims he is God, why isn't it simply that he is with God?!

I'm under control don't worry.

If possible, do you mind trying to pinpoint exactly what you're getting at? I don't seem to follow.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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6/20/2013 5:07:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 4:57:20 PM, stubs wrote:
So you don't fully understand the trinity? Just like every Christian ever haha. But seriously, yeah the trinity is blurry to me as well.

Glad I'm not the only one. Some people speak though as if they fully understand and can grasp it, and that confuses me. Could it be that understanding was given to them, and that I'm just not ready for that revelation yet, or is it just something that we, as humans, can never really understand in this lifetime?? I don't know.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/20/2013 5:10:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 5:04:22 PM, stubs wrote:
At 6/20/2013 4:58:48 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Ok , I know you speak to Christians but I couldn't keep away.

I don't think God would reveal something none can understand. and more importantly, hide it form the generations before you guys?! why it was forbidden to associate partners with God before Christ, then suddenly, it became the trend ?! who did Jesus worship ? what does it mean that he is the Way, and the way to whom or to what ?

Well the verses where he says that he and the father are one, why do they need to be interpreted as if he claims he is God, why isn't it simply that he is with God?!

I'm under control don't worry.

If possible, do you mind trying to pinpoint exactly what you're getting at? I don't seem to follow.

Well just trying to tell, Trinity isn't initially part of your creed, only misinterpretations lead to it.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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6/20/2013 5:15:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 4:58:48 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Ok , I know you speak to Christians but I couldn't keep away.

I don't think God would reveal something none can understand. and more importantly, hide it form the generations before you guys?! why it was forbidden to associate partners with God before Christ, then suddenly, it became the trend ?! who did Jesus worship ? what does it mean that he is the Way, and the way to whom or to what ?

Well the verses where he says that he and the father are one, why do they need to be interpreted as if he claims he is God, why isn't it simply that he is with God?!

I'm under control don't worry.

I understand your point, but I hope someone with more knowledge than me comes along and comments. Like I said, I just don't feel comfortable arguing either side, but I'm certainly interested in reading the discussion and learning from it.

Better save this thread, it's not often that I admit my own ignorance.
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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6/20/2013 5:40:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the most interesting explanation of the trinity I've heard was creating an analogy to the dimensions of a book.

A book as a height, a width, and a length. A book's height is not the same as its width or its length - it is a unique but necessary dimension of the book and although you can describe this dimension separately, all three dimensions are part of one thing. In a similar way, the unique and necessary aspects of God and although they are separate they are all one.

I don't know if that helps, but I liked it.
Enji
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6/20/2013 5:42:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 5:40:47 PM, Enji wrote:
I think the most interesting explanation of the trinity I've heard was creating an analogy to the dimensions of a book.

A book as a height, a width, and a length. A book's height is not the same as its width or its length - it is a unique but necessary dimension of the book and although you can describe this dimension separately, all three dimensions are part of one thing. In a similar way, the Trinity describes unique and necessary dimensions of God and although they are separate they compose one.

I don't know if that helps, but I liked it.

*fixed
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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6/20/2013 5:47:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
While I am by no means knowledgeable in this area, I'll say you shouldn't feel discouraged you don't really grasp trinity when all these people say they do. I don't think they "grasp" it in the way you mean as well, but rather accept it in some abstract manner and consider it as understanding of the concept. It would be the same with say, another spacial dimension. What would 4D world look like? While I certainly cannot get the image of it, I can somewhat grasp at what the concept is implying. And then there are probably Christians who are somewhat unsure of their beliefs so they claim them so adamantly to cover their insecurity.

Hope I made sense.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/20/2013 6:59:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 4:32:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I'm aware of the arguments for and against the Trinity, but I have to be honest here, I can't grasp the concept well enough to try and explain, defend, or argue against it. Many Christians seem to be able to understand it and that bugs me because I just can't wrap my head around it, and make it make sense to me. It's not that I'm disputing the Trinity, it's just that I'm at a loss for understanding the concept of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the same, yet separate.

Though I wish I had the understanding, I've come to believe that it's just a matter of faith. I believe that God knows that we can barely understand ourselves as mortal beings, so how can we understand such matters of spirit??

Christians, am I missing the answer in Scripture, or is this indeed understanding that we, as physical beings, cannot attain??

I think it's one thing know the definition of the Trinity and to know that it's Biblical. It's another thing to be able to conceptualize it. I don't see it as being much different than quantum physics in that regard.

As far as getting a clear understanding of what the doctrine of the Trinity is and what the Biblical support for it is, I'd recommend The Forgotten Trinity by James White.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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6/20/2013 7:12:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 5:40:47 PM, Enji wrote:
I think the most interesting explanation of the trinity I've heard was creating an analogy to the dimensions of a book.

A book as a height, a width, and a length. A book's height is not the same as its width or its length - it is a unique but necessary dimension of the book and although you can describe this dimension separately, all three dimensions are part of one thing. In a similar way, the unique and necessary aspects of God and although they are separate they are all one.

I don't know if that helps, but I liked it.

That seems like a very good way to explain it.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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6/20/2013 7:14:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 5:47:23 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
While I am by no means knowledgeable in this area, I'll say you shouldn't feel discouraged you don't really grasp trinity when all these people say they do. I don't think they "grasp" it in the way you mean as well, but rather accept it in some abstract manner and consider it as understanding of the concept. It would be the same with say, another spacial dimension. What would 4D world look like? While I certainly cannot get the image of it, I can somewhat grasp at what the concept is implying. And then there are probably Christians who are somewhat unsure of their beliefs so they claim them so adamantly to cover their insecurity.

Hope I made sense.

Makes perfect sense. You may be right, too, that some may have less understanding than what they pretend to have.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/20/2013 7:18:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I find the trinity fairly easy to grasp really. You have three personalities that are the same being. Three parts of the same "set" called God. The father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. However, the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the father, and the Holy Ghost is not the father. The trinity can be separated in a sense, (you can have Jesus on Earth, with the Father in Heaven for example), but no matter what, all three equate to God.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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6/20/2013 7:22:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 6:59:14 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/20/2013 4:32:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I'm aware of the arguments for and against the Trinity, but I have to be honest here, I can't grasp the concept well enough to try and explain, defend, or argue against it. Many Christians seem to be able to understand it and that bugs me because I just can't wrap my head around it, and make it make sense to me. It's not that I'm disputing the Trinity, it's just that I'm at a loss for understanding the concept of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the same, yet separate.

Though I wish I had the understanding, I've come to believe that it's just a matter of faith. I believe that God knows that we can barely understand ourselves as mortal beings, so how can we understand such matters of spirit??

Christians, am I missing the answer in Scripture, or is this indeed understanding that we, as physical beings, cannot attain??

I think it's one thing know the definition of the Trinity and to know that it's Biblical. It's another thing to be able to conceptualize it. I don't see it as being much different than quantum physics in that regard.

That's pretty much where I am. I believe that it's Biblical, from what I do understand of it. I think maybe the level of understanding that I wish to have just may not be possible.

As far as getting a clear understanding of what the doctrine of the Trinity is and what the Biblical support for it is, I'd recommend The Forgotten Trinity by James White.

Thanks, I'll give that a look.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/20/2013 7:26:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ironically, I agree with the Trinity.

Not the Father, Son, Holy Ghost nonsense, rather Abusive Father, Sadistic Jokester, and Malicious Warlord.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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6/20/2013 7:37:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 7:26:52 PM, drafterman wrote:
Ironically, I agree with the Trinity.

Not the Father, Son, Holy Ghost nonsense, rather Abusive Father, Sadistic Jokester, and Malicious Warlord.

God still loves you anyway.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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6/20/2013 8:02:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I started typing a response to this, but I found something else which was better by S. Michael Houdmann:

The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God"three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. The following is what God"s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God" (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity"the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God"s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God"but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. "Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34).

http://www.gotquestions.org...

I hope that helps.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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6/20/2013 8:10:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 4:32:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I'm aware of the arguments for and against the Trinity, but I have to be honest here, I can't grasp the concept well enough to try and explain, defend, or argue against it. Many Christians seem to be able to understand it and that bugs me because I just can't wrap my head around it, and make it make sense to me. It's not that I'm disputing the Trinity, it's just that I'm at a loss for understanding the concept of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the same, yet separate.

Though I wish I had the understanding, I've come to believe that it's just a matter of faith. I believe that God knows that we can barely understand ourselves as mortal beings, so how can we understand such matters of spirit??

Christians, am I missing the answer in Scripture, or is this indeed understanding that we, as physical beings, cannot attain??

I think the trinity can be described as:

God = The creator of everything.
Jesus = The example humans are supposed to follow.
Holy Spirit = The way humans communicate with God and the way God expresses himself to/through humans.

Some people may or may not agree. This is my own interpretation.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/20/2013 8:18:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Colossians 1:12, "..Thanks unto the Father, which hath made us..to be partakers...13 Who hath delivered..and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have the forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth... all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning...19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;20 And...by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

To explain here so we can fully understand, these verses are clearly describing Jesus Christ as the first born of all creation. Jesus Christ is the living Word of God and the fulfilling action of the spoken Word of God. We see that Jesus Christ the Son created all things in earth and in heaven for His own pleasure with the power of God the Father, Jesus Christ is that spoken Word.

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

It is stating that Jesus Christ is the Word, the Word is with God the Father, and that makes the Word also God. That the Word created all things and made all things.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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6/20/2013 9:22:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 8:18:38 PM, Harbinger wrote:
Colossians 1:12, "..Thanks unto the Father, which hath made us..to be partakers...13 Who hath delivered..and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have the forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth... all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning...19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;20 And...by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

To explain here so we can fully understand, these verses are clearly describing Jesus Christ as the first born of all creation. Jesus Christ is the living Word of God and the fulfilling action of the spoken Word of God. We see that Jesus Christ the Son created all things in earth and in heaven for His own pleasure with the power of God the Father, Jesus Christ is that spoken Word.

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

It is stating that Jesus Christ is the Word, the Word is with God the Father, and that makes the Word also God. That the Word created all things and made all things.
If the trinity is the true word of god and you don't believe it, are you bound for hell?
If the trinity is not the true word of god but you believe it is, are you bound for hell?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/20/2013 9:40:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 7:37:39 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 6/20/2013 7:26:52 PM, drafterman wrote:
Ironically, I agree with the Trinity.

Not the Father, Son, Holy Ghost nonsense, rather Abusive Father, Sadistic Jokester, and Malicious Warlord.

God still loves you anyway.

Not by any definition of the word I'm familiar with.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/20/2013 9:49:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 4:32:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I'm aware of the arguments for and against the Trinity, but I have to be honest here, I can't grasp the concept well enough to try and explain, defend, or argue against it. Many Christians seem to be able to understand it and that bugs me because I just can't wrap my head around it, and make it make sense to me. It's not that I'm disputing the Trinity, it's just that I'm at a loss for understanding the concept of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the same, yet separate.

Though I wish I had the understanding, I've come to believe that it's just a matter of faith. I believe that God knows that we can barely understand ourselves as mortal beings, so how can we understand such matters of spirit??

Christians, am I missing the answer in Scripture, or is this indeed understanding that we, as physical beings, cannot attain??

I understand it like this Medic.
God the Father like us is spirit and soul.
His spirit is the Holy Ghost.
His soul is His personal being like we have.
Jesus Christ is the spoken Word which was made flesh.
We must do physical actions to cause things. God simply must speak it into action and Jesus Christ(The Word) is that action when spoken.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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6/20/2013 10:31:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 9:49:35 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/20/2013 4:32:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I'm aware of the arguments for and against the Trinity, but I have to be honest here, I can't grasp the concept well enough to try and explain, defend, or argue against it. Many Christians seem to be able to understand it and that bugs me because I just can't wrap my head around it, and make it make sense to me. It's not that I'm disputing the Trinity, it's just that I'm at a loss for understanding the concept of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the same, yet separate.

Though I wish I had the understanding, I've come to believe that it's just a matter of faith. I believe that God knows that we can barely understand ourselves as mortal beings, so how can we understand such matters of spirit??

Christians, am I missing the answer in Scripture, or is this indeed understanding that we, as physical beings, cannot attain??

I understand it like this Medic.
God the Father like us is spirit and soul.
His spirit is the Holy Ghost.
His soul is His personal being like we have.
Jesus Christ is the spoken Word which was made flesh.
We must do physical actions to cause things. God simply must speak it into action and Jesus Christ(The Word) is that action when spoken.

You realize your understanding pretty much makes Jesus an idol? Nobody can worship God and Jesus equally nor should they be, one will always be favored over the other. Only a blind faith would deny this.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/21/2013 12:41:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/20/2013 10:31:18 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 6/20/2013 9:49:35 PM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/20/2013 4:32:46 PM, medic0506 wrote:
I'm aware of the arguments for and against the Trinity, but I have to be honest here, I can't grasp the concept well enough to try and explain, defend, or argue against it. Many Christians seem to be able to understand it and that bugs me because I just can't wrap my head around it, and make it make sense to me. It's not that I'm disputing the Trinity, it's just that I'm at a loss for understanding the concept of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the same, yet separate.

Though I wish I had the understanding, I've come to believe that it's just a matter of faith. I believe that God knows that we can barely understand ourselves as mortal beings, so how can we understand such matters of spirit??

Christians, am I missing the answer in Scripture, or is this indeed understanding that we, as physical beings, cannot attain??

I understand it like this Medic.
God the Father like us is spirit and soul.
His spirit is the Holy Ghost.
His soul is His personal being like we have.
Jesus Christ is the spoken Word which was made flesh.
We must do physical actions to cause things. God simply must speak it into action and Jesus Christ(The Word) is that action when spoken.

You realize your understanding pretty much makes Jesus an idol?

Umm...No.
Nobody can worship God and Jesus equally nor should they be,

We do worship in Jesus' name. He is our savior and no one comes into the Father but through Him.

one will always be favored over the other. Only a blind faith would deny this.

You may favor one over the other, but I do not. All three are God.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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6/21/2013 4:42:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
THINGS THAT GO BUMP.

At 6/20/2013 9:22:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/20/2013 8:18:38 PM, Harbinger wrote:
Colossians 1:12, "..Thanks unto the Father, which hath made us..to be partakers...13 Who hath delivered..and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have the forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth... all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning...19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;20 And...by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

To explain here so we can fully understand, these verses are clearly describing Jesus Christ as the first born of all creation. Jesus Christ is the living Word of God and the fulfilling action of the spoken Word of God. We see that Jesus Christ the Son created all things in earth and in heaven for His own pleasure with the power of God the Father, Jesus Christ is that spoken Word.

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

It is stating that Jesus Christ is the Word, the Word is with God the Father, and that makes the Word also God. That the Word created all things and made all things.
If the trinity is the true word of god and you don't believe it, are you bound for hell?
If the trinity is not the true word of god but you believe it is, are you bound for hell?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
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6/21/2013 4:49:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:42:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
THINGS THAT GO BUMP.

If the trinity is the true word of god and you don't believe it, are you bound for hell?

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If the trinity is not the true word of god but you believe it is, are you bound for hell?

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord(Jesus) shall be saved.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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6/21/2013 4:54:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:49:34 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:42:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
THINGS THAT GO BUMP.

If the trinity is the true word of god and you don't believe it, are you bound for hell?

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If the trinity is not the true word of god but you believe it is, are you bound for hell?

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord(Jesus) shall be saved.
So you're telling me you can't answer those questions?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/21/2013 4:57:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 4:54:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:49:34 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 4:42:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
THINGS THAT GO BUMP.

If the trinity is the true word of god and you don't believe it, are you bound for hell?

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If the trinity is not the true word of god but you believe it is, are you bound for hell?

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord(Jesus) shall be saved.
So you're telling me you can't answer those questions?

No, your saying yourself you cannot comprehend nor do you want too.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."