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Why doesn't GOD show himself?

bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 6:50:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
He is testing us, will take only the good amongst us for fulltime job. the rest are cast to fire.

If he show himself ,the test wouldn't mean anything anymore.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/21/2013 6:52:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!

God does not hide Himself. You hide from Him. God reveals Himself to those willing to humble themselves to Him.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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6/21/2013 6:54:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 6:52:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!

God does not hide Himself. You hide from Him. God reveals Himself to those willing to humble themselves to Him.
What does he look like harbi? Since you claim to have seen him.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 6:57:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
well you guys are talking about 2 different things, seeing the image of God, which none has done. and seeing his truth, which is the very goal of the test.
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/21/2013 7:00:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 6:54:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:52:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!

God does not hide Himself. You hide from Him. God reveals Himself to those willing to humble themselves to Him.
What does he look like harbi? Since you claim to have seen him.

Is seeing and knowing the same thing? No. I am talking to you and I know you exist but I have never seen you in person.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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6/21/2013 7:14:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 6:50:37 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is testing us, will take only the good amongst us for fulltime job. the rest are cast to fire.

If he show himself ,the test wouldn't mean anything anymore.

So he has the capacity to ensure we all go to heaven and knows which ones of us will be and which ones won't? Why bother with the intrim bit then? Why not just not create people who would otherwise be destined for hell and get everyone else straight into heaven? Why not do the compassionate thing and prove himself to those who doubt, thus saving them from eternal torment?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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6/21/2013 8:30:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 7:00:06 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:54:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:52:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!

God does not hide Himself. You hide from Him. God reveals Himself to those willing to humble themselves to Him.
What does he look like harbi? Since you claim to have seen him.

Is seeing and knowing the same thing? No. I am talking to you and I know you exist but I have never seen you in person.
The question was regarding SHOWING and you answered that he had. Knowing is therefore irrelevant to the question. Seeing is relevant to SHOWING.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 8:35:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 7:14:32 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:50:37 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is testing us, will take only the good amongst us for fulltime job. the rest are cast to fire.

If he show himself ,the test wouldn't mean anything anymore.

So he has the capacity to ensure we all go to heaven and knows which ones of us will be and which ones won't? Why bother with the intrim bit then? Why not just not create people who would otherwise be destined for hell and get everyone else straight into heaven? Why not do the compassionate thing and prove himself to those who doubt, thus saving them from eternal torment?

That's for us to know his is Just. why not create them ? not sure but once created why not punish them?!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 8:40:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 7:14:32 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
Why not just not create people who would otherwise be destined for hell and get everyone else straight into heaven? Why not do the compassionate thing and prove himself to those who doubt, thus saving them from eternal torment?Look he already has creatures who obey him without fail called angels. there is something different about us, we are given love for good and for evil, and thus we are tested. those who prefer evil over good will be cast to fire, and the rest will be saved.Evil and good being defined by God not by people.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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6/21/2013 8:55:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!

God may just be our conscious thoughts, in which case He would need no image because He would be our entire perception.
Books have no necessity in faith. If someone relies on a book to define their faith it can't truly be ones own faith can it? He doesn't require faith in him. Faith just makes things easier to cope with at times and it gives a reason to hope that their is something more to life than what we have created.
Maybe God wants to reveal himself in such an obvious way that he is genuinely easy to overlook?
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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6/21/2013 9:03:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 8:40:33 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Look he already has creatures who obey him without fail called angels. there is something different about us, we are given love for good and for evil, and thus we are tested. those who prefer evil over good will be cast to fire, and the rest will be saved.Evil and good being defined by God not by people.

So he set up a scenario - according to his own rules - that requires countless billions to suffer eternal torment? And you like this guy? You think he deserves glorifying? Because to me he sounds like the greatest tyrant imaginable, a cold, callous sociopath who knows nothing of compassion, love, forgiveness or anything else of true value. Even if I knew such a being existed, why on Earth would I ever even consider following him?
Harbinger
Posts: 778
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6/21/2013 9:05:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 8:30:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 7:00:06 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:54:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:52:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!

God does not hide Himself. You hide from Him. God reveals Himself to those willing to humble themselves to Him.
What does he look like harbi? Since you claim to have seen him.

Is seeing and knowing the same thing? No. I am talking to you and I know you exist but I have never seen you in person.
The question was regarding SHOWING and you answered that he had. Knowing is therefore irrelevant to the question. Seeing is relevant to SHOWING.

No, you show me you exist though I have not actually seen you.
Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 9:13:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 9:03:53 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 6/21/2013 8:40:33 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Look he already has creatures who obey him without fail called angels. there is something different about us, we are given love for good and for evil, and thus we are tested. those who prefer evil over good will be cast to fire, and the rest will be saved.Evil and good being defined by God not by people.

So he set up a scenario - according to his own rules - that requires countless billions to suffer eternal torment? And you like this guy? You think he deserves glorifying? Because to me he sounds like the greatest tyrant imaginable, a cold, callous sociopath who knows nothing of compassion, love, forgiveness or anything else of true value. Even if I knew such a being existed, why on Earth would I ever even consider following him?

Well he isn't any guy, he is the owner of all that exists, it is legitimate that he rules what he wills, and do what he wills, and all his actions are wisdom. He has love, forgiveness and compassion. But part od his creature deny him, and the part of them that deny him out of arrogance are the ones that will get the worst punishment.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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6/21/2013 9:16:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 9:05:29 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 8:30:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 7:00:06 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:54:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:52:00 AM, Harbinger wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!

God does not hide Himself. You hide from Him. God reveals Himself to those willing to humble themselves to Him.
What does he look like harbi? Since you claim to have seen him.

Is seeing and knowing the same thing? No. I am talking to you and I know you exist but I have never seen you in person.
The question was regarding SHOWING and you answered that he had. Knowing is therefore irrelevant to the question. Seeing is relevant to SHOWING.

No, you show me you exist though I have not actually seen you.
Gees, I didn't even set this TRAP, it was one of your own making.
WHO AM I?
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/21/2013 9:39:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 6:50:37 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is testing us, will take only the good amongst us for fulltime job. the rest are cast to fire.

If he show himself ,the test wouldn't mean anything anymore.

he showed himself to adam, eve, noah, moses, abraham...
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
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6/21/2013 9:55:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 9:39:33 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:50:37 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is testing us, will take only the good amongst us for fulltime job. the rest are cast to fire.

If he show himself ,the test wouldn't mean anything anymore.

he showed himself to adam, eve, noah, moses, abraham...

Well that's because he loved them more XD
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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6/21/2013 9:56:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does this god need us to believe in him without him actually showing himself? Does he require BELIEF?
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
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6/21/2013 9:59:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 9:56:03 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does this god need us to believe in him without him actually showing himself? Does he require BELIEF?

Yes, belief and faith are two interchangeable terms in this context, and god requires that we have faith in his existence
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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6/21/2013 10:01:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hiddenness for a time could be conducive towards a better relationship with God.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 10:08:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 9:39:33 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:50:37 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is testing us, will take only the good amongst us for fulltime job. the rest are cast to fire.

If he show himself ,the test wouldn't mean anything anymore.

he showed himself to adam, eve, noah, moses, abraham...

Not in person, I don not know that Adam saw him, not even Moses or Jesus. But he spoke to them, and inspired them.So they did not see his image, and there is not evidence about that in scriptures.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 10:09:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 9:56:03 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does this god need us to believe in him without him actually showing himself? Does he require BELIEF?

He requires more than blind faith, He requires knowledge, for you need to prove your faith, not just claim it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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6/21/2013 10:10:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 9:59:34 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 6/21/2013 9:56:03 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does this god need us to believe in him without him actually showing himself? Does he require BELIEF?

Yes, belief and faith are two interchangeable terms in this context, and god requires that we have faith in his existence

Is "faith" so very important? If so why?
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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6/21/2013 10:14:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!

God is defined as an infinite being, we are simply finite beings with finite senses, meaning we can not perceive everything. It is not possible for a finite being to comprehend an infinite being.....

"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."

- William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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6/21/2013 10:36:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 10:14:40 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!


God is defined as an infinite being, we are simply finite beings with finite senses, meaning we can not perceive everything. It is not possible for a finite being to comprehend an infinite being.....




"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."

- William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

In para one you claim that it just the way we are, "finite"
In para two old blakey claims that we created that situation.
Do you think you could perhaps at least make your responses less contradictory than your holy book? Thanks.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 10:58:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 10:26:11 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
I tried to make it manifest itself once, and that did not work.

He doesn't manifest himself to the dead or to the disbelievers, the prophets Believed in him before they receive anything. and there will be no more prophets ;)
bulproof
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6/21/2013 11:08:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 10:58:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/21/2013 10:26:11 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
I tried to make it manifest itself once, and that did not work.

He doesn't manifest himself to the dead or to the disbelievers, the prophets Believed in him before they receive anything. and there will be no more prophets ;)

Of course there won't be any more profits. For (allegedly) 4000yrs god was talking away, 14 to the dozen, to profits and donkeys and all sorts and then he just stopped. Apparently he got laryngitis, poor old bugger.
My theory is that the consumption of mind altering substances started to become frowned upon. Well except for the Islamic invasions and the subsequent crusades. I reckon that some of them were on the beserker juice.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/21/2013 11:12:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 11:08:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 10:58:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/21/2013 10:26:11 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
I tried to make it manifest itself once, and that did not work.

He doesn't manifest himself to the dead or to the disbelievers, the prophets Believed in him before they receive anything. and there will be no more prophets ;)

Of course there won't be any more profits. For (allegedly) 4000yrs god was talking away, 14 to the dozen, to profits and donkeys and all sorts and then he just stopped. Apparently he got laryngitis, poor old bugger.
My theory is that the consumption of mind altering substances started to become frowned upon. Well except for the Islamic invasions and the subsequent crusades. I reckon that some of them were on the beserker juice.

We he gave us what we need, now it's preparation for the judgement day, see you there.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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6/21/2013 11:15:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/21/2013 10:36:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2013 10:14:40 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 6/21/2013 6:44:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
Why does god hide himself and rely on old books to declare his existence? Is it to engender FAITH in him? Why would he require FAITH in him?
Why doesn't god demonstrate unequivocally his existence. Show himself and prove his existence to every living person. Everybody would then know that he exists, no questions asked!


God is defined as an infinite being, we are simply finite beings with finite senses, meaning we can not perceive everything. It is not possible for a finite being to comprehend an infinite being.....




"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."

- William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

In para one you claim that it just the way we are, "finite"
In para two old blakey claims that we created that situation.
Do you think you could perhaps at least make your responses less contradictory than your holy book? Thanks.

In fact I do not quote any Holy book, and yes I do believe the William blake quote is contradictory in that he states we created the situation, my bad, I refer you back to para 1, as it is simply the way we are.

It doesn't take away from the fact we can not perceive things as they are, infinite.