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Should I stay Catholic?

rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/28/2013 1:58:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I find it harder and harder every day to remain a Roman Catholic. I was baptized Catholic as a baby but was not raised Catholic. I went through RCIA, first communion, and confirmation in college.

First, let me say that I do not expect a real answer to my problems from this forum. I talk to priests, family, friends, therapists, etc., for all that, and I pray. I just want to have a discussion here.

Second, please do not try to convince me to become an Evangelical Protestant. It ain't gonna happen. I like my statues and icons and kneeling in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament and praying to Mary and the Saints for the Souls in Purgatory, thank you very much. I also think the Pope on certain matters at certain times does have a hotline to the Holy Spirit to teach the infallible truth - I just do not think the Holy Spirit uses that hotline very often, and I do not think that the Pope necessarily knows when he is teaching something infallibly (when he is teaching ex cathedra on faith and morals) and when he is not.

That said, the reason I have trouble remaining Roman Catholic is that I am gay and married to another man (we married in a Lutheran church - because they were willing to marry us - and my husband goes there now). My conscience thinks it is extremely unfair that women cannot have the teaching and judicial authority of priests and bishops in matters of faith and morals. Frankly, there isn't very much at all of Roman Caatholic teaching on sex that my conscience can accept. I don't even believe that relationships need to be monogamous.

Furthermore, I do not think that people of other faiths are necessarily wrong in anything they believe, or that it is necessarily any better for them to convert to Catholicism than to stay where they are. I believe in purgatory and hell, but I think that even people in hell can learn that they are wrong, come to repentance, and eventually reach heaven (although it might take a long and difficult time).

So why don't I become an Anglo-Catholic (where there are women and gay priests) or a Unitarian Universalist (where all forms of belief are celebrated as equally true and people generally do not believe in eternal inescapable damnation)? I guess it is because I believe that if you are going to be a (small-c) catholic Christian, which I am, you may as well all belong to the same Church and have the same Pope as leader (unity of the Body of Christ, etc, etc - but I'm not sure how I fit my belief that non-Catholics do not need to convert in there). I also think that the Roman Catholic Church will never develop a mire just understanding of the role if women or human sexuality if all dissenters merely left it. Even if I have been excommunicated for getting gay-married, an excommunicated Catholic is still a Catholic (even the Catechism says that).

That said, reform of the kind I am praying for will probably not happen in my lifetime, and why should I have to live my whole life without ever feeling accepted by my faith community (not by an individual priest or parish, but by the Church as a whole)? Why should I have to feel like I am lying and cheating the system every time I receive communion or absolution, especially if it is from a priest I do not know? The list could go on and on.
Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/28/2013 2:15:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 1:58:44 PM, rockwater wrote:
I find it harder and harder every day to remain a Roman Catholic. I was baptized Catholic as a baby but was not raised Catholic. I went through RCIA, first communion, and confirmation in college.

First, let me say that I do not expect a real answer to my problems from this forum. I talk to priests, family, friends, therapists, etc., for all that, and I pray. I just want to have a discussion here.

Second, please do not try to convince me to become an Evangelical Protestant. It ain't gonna happen. I like my statues and icons and kneeling in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament and praying to Mary and the Saints for the Souls in Purgatory, thank you very much. I also think the Pope on certain matters at certain times does have a hotline to the Holy Spirit to teach the infallible truth - I just do not think the Holy Spirit uses that hotline very often, and I do not think that the Pope necessarily knows when he is teaching something infallibly (when he is teaching ex cathedra on faith and morals) and when he is not.

That said, the reason I have trouble remaining Roman Catholic is that I am gay and married to another man (we married in a Lutheran church - because they were willing to marry us - and my husband goes there now). My conscience thinks it is extremely unfair that women cannot have the teaching and judicial authority of priests and bishops in matters of faith and morals. Frankly, there isn't very much at all of Roman Caatholic teaching on sex that my conscience can accept. I don't even believe that relationships need to be monogamous.

Furthermore, I do not think that people of other faiths are necessarily wrong in anything they believe, or that it is necessarily any better for them to convert to Catholicism than to stay where they are. I believe in purgatory and hell, but I think that even people in hell can learn that they are wrong, come to repentance, and eventually reach heaven (although it might take a long and difficult time).

So why don't I become an Anglo-Catholic (where there are women and gay priests) or a Unitarian Universalist (where all forms of belief are celebrated as equally true and people generally do not believe in eternal inescapable damnation)? I guess it is because I believe that if you are going to be a (small-c) catholic Christian, which I am, you may as well all belong to the same Church and have the same Pope as leader (unity of the Body of Christ, etc, etc - but I'm not sure how I fit my belief that non-Catholics do not need to convert in there). I also think that the Roman Catholic Church will never develop a mire just understanding of the role if women or human sexuality if all dissenters merely left it. Even if I have been excommunicated for getting gay-married, an excommunicated Catholic is still a Catholic (even the Catechism says that).

That said, reform of the kind I am praying for will probably not happen in my lifetime, and why should I have to live my whole life without ever feeling accepted by my faith community (not by an individual priest or parish, but by the Church as a whole)? Why should I have to feel like I am lying and cheating the system every time I receive communion or absolution, especially if it is from a priest I do not know? The list could go on and on.

A very simple answer would be No, in fact if you have faith Christ preached against organized religion, in fact he meant his teachings to be a faith, not religion. And the Roman Catholics are the very perpetrators of twisting Christs teachings for their greed. Before they became Catholics, their religion was being diminished by Christ and "his god" so they crucified him, then turned his teachings into a religion to maintain control over the masses, now you may think I am just giving a conspiracy theory's but think about it, the roman Catholics have used the bible and their faith to commit some of the worst acts in human history, all combined would make the holocaust look like a small skirmish. If you do not do what they dictate, you are cast out, but yet they protect child molesters? the hypocrisy within the church is so vast they are losing their congregation in droves.

I would say that if you feel you need to attend church because you feel that is the best way you can express your love for God, then find a small congregation, there are many out there, but understand that going to a building does not bring you closer to god, he/she will not look at what church you are part of or what denomination you choose to be part of, he looks at the deeds you do, (and while most religious people think so, he doesn't care about what you do behind closed doors, he/she has more important things to do) And please do not pay any attention to those who would try and use the bible to say you are wrong for being who you are, anyone who has too just has nothing else to stand on, and they are not worth your time.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/28/2013 3:22:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Can you please tell what you believe exactly about God , Jesus, the Old and new testament? because you don't necessarily have to embrace a new faith you just have to know what you believe already to know what you are.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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6/28/2013 3:32:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ask yourself why you believe what you believe. I mean, you obviously can't be Catholic in your principles, and a married homosexual. You can be "mostly" Catholic, I suppose, but if you have such a fundamental disagreement with the church, you can't be a Catholic. It's not a "no true Scotsman", it's a "X entails Y and Z, you don't agree with Z, therefore not-X".

As an atheist, obviously, I think there is no good reason to believe in a god. Obviously, you at least think you think there is, and I'm not trying to be argumentative on that point. But Fruitytree has a point, you have to know what you believe, and I think you should also extend that to looking at why you believe it. Perhaps some of your beliefs don't rest as solidly as you thought (such as, for example, the infallibility of the Papal Seat). Explore that, figure out why you think it, and what that means.

You're right; excommunication is similar to exile; it doesn't stop you from being your nationality or faith, it just stops you from being in it. At the same time, religion is about faith and beliefs. If you strongly disagree with major tenets, why would you believe in the rest? If you're excommunicated for, say, murder, but you realize it's wrong, and show them,a nd they let you back in, that's totally fine. But here, you don't agree with their assessment of what is wrong. That's a problem.

You wrote that you don't think the church will change if dissenters simply leave. I think that's not true; I believe the rise of Protestantism was a major contributing factor to subsequent changes in the church. Think of it like in the corporate world. So long as you stay a customer, some businesses just won't listen. Good businesses will, sure, but bad businesses won't. At least, they won't until they start losing chunks of their customers.
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rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/28/2013 3:41:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

Um...where to start? I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I don't want to debate homosexuality here. Rather, I would like to discuss whether or not a person in my situation should stay in it leave the Roman Catholic Church.

As for your earlier question, I believe in God and believe that Jesus is God, human, and the Son of God. I don't want to debate the incarnation or the trinity here. However, I am open to the idea that God may have communicated with people in ways other than those mentioned in Scripture, Tradition, or in the apparitions recognized by the Church. This means that maybe there is some divine revelation behind the beliefs of other religions, even if I do not agree with the entirety of other religions. Yeah, I know that's pretty first-class heresy, but with such a big universe it seems strange that God would limit His (Her?) Revelation to Palestine 2000 years ago. Ok, let me put it this way. The entirety of Revelation is in the person of Jesus Christ. His gospel message and saving power are not limited by boundaries of time, space, or religion in their ability to reach people.

Ok. Back to the topic. Should I remain Catholic?
Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/28/2013 3:44:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

have you every had sex outside of marriage? if so you are a sinner and god will punish you, and you will go to hell and burn forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever....

your idea of why god destroyed anything is because of sex? it was because of lust, not just because it was sex. and that is if you believe in the story's and if you do then I also have written a few things god inspired me to write, a cooking recipe for roasted duck....

These are the types of people you shouldn't listen too OP, they choose to think that they can judge others or tell others what they are doing wrong.... they are not worth your time.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/28/2013 3:47:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 3:41:26 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

Um...where to start? I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I don't want to debate homosexuality here. Rather, I would like to discuss whether or not a person in my situation should stay in it leave the Roman Catholic Church.

As for your earlier question, I believe in God and believe that Jesus is God, human, and the Son of God. I don't want to debate the incarnation or the trinity here. However, I am open to the idea that God may have communicated with people in ways other than those mentioned in Scripture, Tradition, or in the apparitions recognized by the Church. This means that maybe there is some divine revelation behind the beliefs of other religions, even if I do not agree with the entirety of other religions. Yeah, I know that's pretty first-class heresy, but with such a big universe it seems strange that God would limit His (Her?) Revelation to Palestine 2000 years ago. Ok, let me put it this way. The entirety of Revelation is in the person of Jesus Christ. His gospel message and saving power are not limited by boundaries of time, space, or religion in their ability to reach people.

Ok. Back to the topic. Should I remain Catholic?

did you read my post?
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/28/2013 3:54:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
IF you feel you can't remain Catholic but also are still drawn to a lot Catholic ceremony you should try an LGBT friendly Anglican church. A lot of Anglicans are (perhaps perjoratively) called just liberal catholics.

http://www.guardian.co.uk...
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rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/28/2013 3:57:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why do I believe in God? Maybe because my parents taught me to - but they always said I could believe whatever I wanted. I have always felt that someone loves me even if I am completely alone and rejected by everyone else. I have also always felt that good is stronger than evil and that no matter how often history repeats itself, it moves inexorably towards peace justice and unity. I don't have proof for these beliefs. I acknowledge that they are irrational beliefs unless you base your rational thoughts on premises like those of St. Thomas Aquinas that many modern thinkers would disagree with. I don't think laws or scientific inquiry should be limited by religious teachings, but I do believe that there is some kind of universal morality (love your neighbor, the golden rule, do not murder, be honest, do not steal, respect and take care of nature, etc) that is true even if there is no way to scientifically (or purely rationally) prove it.

I wasn't raised Catholic so I have never felt at home in the Catholic Church. Being actively gay, even if some priests accept me for who I am, makes me feel alienated from an institution that is inherently hierarchical (as much as you may want to argue that the "real" Church is in its grass roots).

That said, I think if I am going to bother being a Christian I should work towards Christian unity, and despite all its problems I think that no other organization can make Christian unity a reality other than the Rlman Catholic Church. Mainline Protestants think of unity and ecumenism in a different way - we can all be in full communion if we agree on a few essentials while vastly differing in othe things that we do and believe. But I think unity needs to be visible. It needs to rest in common institutions with common leaders and common budgets. That doesn't sound very spiritual but it is for me. We're all in this together and I guess I'm a statist (ideally at the global federal level) politically and so my political beliefs are similar. That's why I feel bad about leaving the Roman Catholic Church.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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6/28/2013 4:08:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 3:41:26 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

Um...where to start? I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I don't want to debate homosexuality here. Rather, I would like to discuss whether or not a person in my situation should stay in it leave the Roman Catholic Church.

As for your earlier question, I believe in God and believe that Jesus is God, human, and the Son of God. I don't want to debate the incarnation or the trinity here. However, I am open to the idea that God may have communicated with people in ways other than those mentioned in Scripture, Tradition, or in the apparitions recognized by the Church. This means that maybe there is some divine revelation behind the beliefs of other religions, even if I do not agree with the entirety of other religions. Yeah, I know that's pretty first-class heresy, but with such a big universe it seems strange that God would limit His (Her?) Revelation to Palestine 2000 years ago. Ok, let me put it this way. The entirety of Revelation is in the person of Jesus Christ. His gospel message and saving power are not limited by boundaries of time, space, or religion in their ability to reach people.

Ok. Back to the topic. Should I remain Catholic?
What a ridiculous question? Just do what you want to do! It's already what you're doing now, why stop?
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: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/28/2013 4:09:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 3:47:10 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:41:26 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

Um...where to start? I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I don't want to debate homosexuality here. Rather, I would like to discuss whether or not a person in my situation should stay in it leave the Roman Catholic Church.

As for your earlier question, I believe in God and believe that Jesus is God, human, and the Son of God. I don't want to debate the incarnation or the trinity here. However, I am open to the idea that God may have communicated with people in ways other than those mentioned in Scripture, Tradition, or in the apparitions recognized by the Church. This means that maybe there is some divine revelation behind the beliefs of other religions, even if I do not agree with the entirety of other religions. Yeah, I know that's pretty first-class heresy, but with such a big universe it seems strange that God would limit His (Her?) Revelation to Palestine 2000 years ago. Ok, let me put it this way. The entirety of Revelation is in the person of Jesus Christ. His gospel message and saving power are not limited by boundaries of time, space, or religion in their ability to reach people.

Ok. Back to the topic. Should I remain Catholic?

did you read my post?

Yes I did. My parents tell me similar things to what you say. They don't trust organized religion (but my dad wanted me baptized Catholic just because it was what his culture expects).
Izayah003
Posts: 369
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6/28/2013 4:16:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 4:09:12 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:47:10 PM, Izayah003 wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:41:26 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

Um...where to start? I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I don't want to debate homosexuality here. Rather, I would like to discuss whether or not a person in my situation should stay in it leave the Roman Catholic Church.

As for your earlier question, I believe in God and believe that Jesus is God, human, and the Son of God. I don't want to debate the incarnation or the trinity here. However, I am open to the idea that God may have communicated with people in ways other than those mentioned in Scripture, Tradition, or in the apparitions recognized by the Church. This means that maybe there is some divine revelation behind the beliefs of other religions, even if I do not agree with the entirety of other religions. Yeah, I know that's pretty first-class heresy, but with such a big universe it seems strange that God would limit His (Her?) Revelation to Palestine 2000 years ago. Ok, let me put it this way. The entirety of Revelation is in the person of Jesus Christ. His gospel message and saving power are not limited by boundaries of time, space, or religion in their ability to reach people.

Ok. Back to the topic. Should I remain Catholic?

did you read my post?

Yes I did. My parents tell me similar things to what you say. They don't trust organized religion (but my dad wanted me baptized Catholic just because it was what his culture expects).

lol i have been baptized 12 times, but for me it's more like an annual checkup, like a prostate exam, my family had made me doing for years, they always called me a sinner...
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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6/28/2013 4:17:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Pray for truth and guidance from God. 'Seek the Lord where he may be found, call out and come near to him.' (Isaiah 55:6), 'Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face always' (Psalm 105:4), 'Seek & you shall find' (Matthew 7:7).

For the time being, go with general Christianity ((or deism)), 'Love thy neighbor' (Leviticus 19:18), ('Don't do unto others that which you would not want done to you', (Babylonian Talmud, Shabbos 31a)), 'Do unto others as you would want done to you' (Matthew 7:12), & finally 'act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with your God.' (Micah 6:8).

'Seek the Lord where he may be found, call out and come near to him.' (Isaiah 55:6),
'Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face always' (Psalm 105:4),
'Seek & you shall find' (Matthew 7:7).
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/28/2013 4:23:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 3:54:55 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
IF you feel you can't remain Catholic but also are still drawn to a lot Catholic ceremony you should try an LGBT friendly Anglican church. A lot of Anglicans are (perhaps perjoratively) called just liberal catholics.

http://www.guardian.co.uk...

My Catholic parish is pretty LGBT friendly but that could change one day if we get a different pastor or if the bishop cracks down. I have been to many liberal and LGBT friendly Anglo-Catholic parishes but as I wrote I don't quite feel comfortable giving up having a Pope and being in full communion with people who have vastly different beliefs about the Eucharist, the priesthood, and even women's ordination and homosexuality. I would be going from a liberal parish that is breaking the rules of a bigger church to a liberal parish in a church with very few rules (although some people think even the Anglican Church has too many rules). I like the rule of law.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/28/2013 4:26:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 4:08:20 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:41:26 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

Um...where to start? I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I don't want to debate homosexuality here. Rather, I would like to discuss whether or not a person in my situation should stay in it leave the Roman Catholic Church.

As for your earlier question, I believe in God and believe that Jesus is God, human, and the Son of God. I don't want to debate the incarnation or the trinity here. However, I am open to the idea that God may have communicated with people in ways other than those mentioned in Scripture, Tradition, or in the apparitions recognized by the Church. This means that maybe there is some divine revelation behind the beliefs of other religions, even if I do not agree with the entirety of other religions. Yeah, I know that's pretty first-class heresy, but with such a big universe it seems strange that God would limit His (Her?) Revelation to Palestine 2000 years ago. Ok, let me put it this way. The entirety of Revelation is in the person of Jesus Christ. His gospel message and saving power are not limited by boundaries of time, space, or religion in their ability to reach people.

Ok. Back to the topic. Should I remain Catholic?
What a ridiculous question? Just do what you want to do! It's already what you're doing now, why stop?

Because I am miserable where I am now in terms of religion. I feel like I am living a lie every time I receive communion or assist in any way at Mass.
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/28/2013 4:27:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hi, YHWH our God of Scripture says no. There is no such thing as the Catholic Church in Scripture. The Universal Catholic Church can be found no where in the verses from Genesis to Revelation in Fact the word Church is not there either, it is a misinterpretation, the word church is actually, in the original text, Ekklesia, (Greek) for the English Word, Assembly and more specifically Assembly of Israelites for Israel is God's people, this is According to Scripture, the same book known as the Bible and located in just about every house hold in the world.

YHWH is God's name, covered wrongly by the title Lord nearly 7,000 times in your Bible. This name was the name God gave Moses on M.t Sinai and told Moses to Tell His people, Israel this name and use it. God is a word, yes also used and in Hebrew is Elohim, Hebrew is very good to learn, but English, obviously is a language many of us in the world, are currently constrained too. Grace, YHWH's grace, is evident here as well. The name of His Son in Hebrew is Yahushua haMaschiach is His name in Hebrew, the land of Israel. Jesus Christ is not accurate and not His name. God Saves the Messiah is English for Yahushua haMashiach. Jesus translates roughly to the Hebrew name Yahushua, but is the combination of three languages. The choice is clear..Yahushua the Messiah. For there is only one name by which men shall be saved. It does not say the re is one language why which we shall be saved, grace has it that if we have to speak another language for a while fine. But to avoid frustration with the meaning of languages, for language is very complex,it is advisable to start trying to learn the original language of Hebrew. The Renewed Covenant is written in Greek, But Spoken originally and primarily in Hebrew, some Aramaic and a little Latin, very little, in fact Latin was never used directly in the translation of the languages of the Scriptures nor was Aramaic, Just Hebrew and then Greek for the Renewed covenant only in the purpose of reaching the Israelites that had been dispersed, scattered and assimilated in to the Gentile Nations.

Hope this Helps you in making a Godly and Scriptural decision, why would any one who believes in the (Bible and) God and His Son want to do otherwise? Yet Most do, they do not consult the entire body of the Scriptures first but take the council of men instead and first, unaware men at that. Christianity is full of men who decide to change the truths of God to make it easier for people to digest, when in fact, through obedience to God's laws that the Messiah commands us to obey, the ability to obey is not hard, maybe a little at first as with any law, but soon the abundant blessings reveal much ease in the walk with Messiah. His yolk is easy and burden light and we can obey all of His laws/Torah/commands, except the ones that require a temple as one has not been rebuilt yet, and the one getting ready to be built, will not be controlled by true followers of YHHWH until after much deception acures. Shalom. There are few here that support the Truth of Scripture so there is a possibility, that you will see much opposition to these truths.
Sower4GS
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6/28/2013 4:27:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hi, YHWH our God of Scripture says no. There is no such thing as the Catholic Church in Scripture. The Universal Catholic Church can be found no where in the verses from Genesis to Revelation in Fact the word Church is not there either, it is a misinterpretation, the word church is actually, in the original text, Ekklesia, (Greek) for the English Word, Assembly and more specifically Assembly of Israelites for Israel is God's people, this is According to Scripture, the same book known as the Bible and located in just about every house hold in the world.

YHWH is God's name, covered wrongly by the title Lord nearly 7,000 times in your Bible. This name was the name God gave Moses on M.t Sinai and told Moses to Tell His people, Israel this name and use it. God is a word, yes also used and in Hebrew is Elohim, Hebrew is very good to learn, but English, obviously is a language many of us in the world, are currently constrained too. Grace, YHWH's grace, is evident here as well. The name of His Son in Hebrew is Yahushua haMaschiach is His name in Hebrew, the land of Israel. Jesus Christ is not accurate and not His name. God Saves the Messiah is English for Yahushua haMashiach. Jesus translates roughly to the Hebrew name Yahushua, but is the combination of three languages. The choice is clear..Yahushua the Messiah. For there is only one name by which men shall be saved. It does not say the re is one language why which we shall be saved, grace has it that if we have to speak another language for a while fine. But to avoid frustration with the meaning of languages, for language is very complex,it is advisable to start trying to learn the original language of Hebrew. The Renewed Covenant is written in Greek, But Spoken originally and primarily in Hebrew, some Aramaic and a little Latin, very little, in fact Latin was never used directly in the translation of the languages of the Scriptures nor was Aramaic, Just Hebrew and then Greek for the Renewed covenant only in the purpose of reaching the Israelites that had been dispersed, scattered and assimilated in to the Gentile Nations.

Hope this Helps you in making a Godly and Scriptural decision, why would any one who believes in the (Bible and) God and His Son want to do otherwise? Yet Most do, they do not consult the entire body of the Scriptures first but take the council of men instead and first, unaware men at that. Christianity is full of men who decide to change the truths of God to make it easier for people to digest, when in fact, through obedience to God's laws that the Messiah commands us to obey, the ability to obey is not hard, maybe a little at first as with any law, but soon the abundant blessings reveal much ease in the walk with Messiah. His yolk is easy and burden light and we can obey all of His laws/Torah/commands, except the ones that require a temple as one has not been rebuilt yet, and the one getting ready to be built, will not be controlled by true followers of YHHWH until after much deception acures. Shalom. There are few here that support the Truth of Scripture so there is a possibility, that you will see much opposition to these truths.
tBoonePickens
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6/28/2013 4:29:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 4:26:17 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 4:08:20 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:41:26 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

Um...where to start? I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I don't want to debate homosexuality here. Rather, I would like to discuss whether or not a person in my situation should stay in it leave the Roman Catholic Church.

As for your earlier question, I believe in God and believe that Jesus is God, human, and the Son of God. I don't want to debate the incarnation or the trinity here. However, I am open to the idea that God may have communicated with people in ways other than those mentioned in Scripture, Tradition, or in the apparitions recognized by the Church. This means that maybe there is some divine revelation behind the beliefs of other religions, even if I do not agree with the entirety of other religions. Yeah, I know that's pretty first-class heresy, but with such a big universe it seems strange that God would limit His (Her?) Revelation to Palestine 2000 years ago. Ok, let me put it this way. The entirety of Revelation is in the person of Jesus Christ. His gospel message and saving power are not limited by boundaries of time, space, or religion in their ability to reach people.

Ok. Back to the topic. Should I remain Catholic?
What a ridiculous question? Just do what you want to do! It's already what you're doing now, why stop?

Because I am miserable where I am now in terms of religion. I feel like I am living a lie every time I receive communion or assist in any way at Mass.
Why? What lie are you living?

From what I can see, you are living with many lies: some bother you and some you could care less about. The way I see it, you either make so that they all bother you or none bother you; at least that way you'll have the virtue of being consistent.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Sower4GS
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6/28/2013 4:45:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Can I tell you where to go? YHWH should be further consulted after making a Scriptural decision to not attend the Catholic Denomination. After prayer and reading, He will put it on your heart who to consult and talk to. Christianity is not obedient to YHWH though many there in have made a decision to be redeemed or saved by the Messiah, good, now all they have to do is obey and strive to obey all of the commands, but 95% + in Christendom teach that YHWH's laws/commands are done away with and then turn around and obey a portion of them. Yes it is odd and even hypocritical, just plain wrong.
Hope this helps. Many never get to embracing the Torah/Law and will die saved as babes in Messiah. So the old add-age you cannot lose what you don't have sticks.

Although many try to refute these Scriptural posts, you will rarely, if ever see any word studies in the rebuke of these. I have put out many word studies in My posting of these writings, but many just hurl insults at them and never stick it out with kindness and good Scriptural word studies and honest discussion.

Yes, you will see much rebuke from me to others, because I am commanded not to argue, and avoid foolish conversation with them, The Messiah rebuked many in the same way as we are supposed to imitate Him, I do. An honest examination of my posts will show this, I am direct, here, and joke around, there, be always with the intent to be serious about the Love of YHWH. Giving Him Glory and always pointing to Him.

Praying for you in your decision! :)
The ones who attempt to follow Torah/Law and then continually break and outwardly become disobedient are in the most real danger, and this is uncommon in general. This is called grieving the Holy Spirit and at death, as unrepentant for this, is not pardonable in Judgement. Yes, permanent punishment awaits these people, but remember, YHWH is the true and rightful Judge along with His Son, They are One.
Sower4GS
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6/28/2013 4:52:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In response to a previous member of DDO, please read 1 Cor. 6:9
It says:

(KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

(The Scriptures 1998+) Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the reign of Elohim? Do not be deceived. Neither those who whore, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

And so All Scripture is Profitable, for Reproof and instruction....
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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6/28/2013 4:58:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 4:26:17 PM, rockwater wrote:

Because I am miserable where I am now in terms of religion. I feel like I am living a lie every time I receive communion or assist in any way at Mass.

That's because, to a certain extent, you are. And that's a terrible thing to say, of course, and I don't mean it hurtfully. But does your priest condone your marriage and allow you to take communion? Does his bishop? Does Rome? There is a chain of command here, and even if your local one is okay with it, if the higher-ups heard they'd likely be pretty upset, and I think that's part of what's bothering you.

Unfortunately, the unity you're going after just won't work right now. There are too many people who think too many different things. You seem to want a faith that everyone will believe as you do...the only real way to achieve that is to be the head of your own. I'm not finding fault, of course; we all want to be part of something we can support. But I think you're chasing a theological pipe dream. Someday, maybe, and it's a goal you christians can work towards, I suppose. But will you ever convince a JW or a Mormon that their thoughts on the matter are wrong? Or will they ever convince you?
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/28/2013 5:28:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 3:41:26 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 6/28/2013 3:27:59 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Also about sexuality, do changing your faith make your sexual life less sinful ?!

God destroyed a people for this, if all the people on earth agree that it is ok, it won't make it any Moral.

I think if you want to find peace , you need first to know who you want to please ? yourself ? or your God ?

Um...where to start? I don't believe homosexual acts are sinful. I don't want to debate homosexuality here. Rather, I would like to discuss whether or not a person in my situation should stay in it leave the Roman Catholic Church.

But scriptures say it is a sin and even a major sin ? why you think it isn't a sin?

As for your earlier question, I believe in God and believe that Jesus is God, human, and the Son of God. I don't want to debate the incarnation or the trinity here. However, I am open to the idea that God may have communicated with people in ways other than those mentioned in Scripture, Tradition, or in the apparitions recognized by the Church. This means that maybe there is some divine revelation behind the beliefs of other religions, even if I do not agree with the entirety of other religions. Yeah, I know that's pretty first-class heresy, but with such a big universe it seems strange that God would limit His (Her?) Revelation to Palestine 2000 years ago. Ok, let me put it this way. The entirety of Revelation is in the person of Jesus Christ. His gospel message and saving power are not limited by boundaries of time, space, or religion in their ability to reach people.

Ok. Back to the topic. Should I remain Catholic?

I think that if your faith is catholic you can remain catholic, you would be a sinner catholic, and sins do weaken the faith, but not because you are a sinner would that make you a non catholic!
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/28/2013 5:45:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Catholic Communion is like cannibalism. Eating Flesh and Drinking blood. Imagining or as the priests say actually believing those that bread and juice turn into flesh and blood in your mouth. This is cannibalism. A Dictionary can confirm this.

Okay, What did Jesus really mean?

First of all Cannibalism is not permitted in Scripture.

Jesus was speaking Metaphorically as He was known to do as with the Bide of Messiah, not literally, He was using a comparison. and analogy.

With what?

The mana from Heaven (Bread is English for the Hebrew Mana).

This verse can be found referred to particularly in the first five books of Scripture. Moses was the key figure in this reference.

Mana came from Heaven and this Mana is what the Israelites were eating in the desert to stay alive.

Now, it is really not to involved, but It would take some time, but basically Jesus was weeding out The followers Rock water.

He wants true followers. so He used a Metaphor relating to the story of Moses and the Mana and then knowing that the followers would see it as cfannibilism, then they got discouraged. CANNABILISM, no way and rightly so. They misinterpreted His Metaphor and bailed on Him

The point is True followers will follow Yahushua no matter what. It is called Trust.

Even though I don't know every thing (How could I ) I will still follow God.

I must trust Him, have too, In this massive and evil world? Yes, we have too.

Peter responded to Yahshua after Hegave them the Metaphor "You must eat my flesh and drink my blood and later ....What say you?"

Peter responded with sorrow at the Jesus's statement:

"Where would we go? You have the words of eternal life?" Excellent Peter.

Upset Peter was by the idea of Cannabilism, but He trusted the Messiah enough to respond correctly with "You have the words of eternal life"

All of this is a "weeding out" process and very important to know Rock water.

Only a remnant of Israel will be saved, in those Israelites (Jews and a large throng of Ephramites, a minority will be believing gentiles for the population of the world is mostly Ephramites from the lost and exiled Northern Kingdom of Israel around 731 BCE).

We are every where assimilated into the Nation's, we look gentile, act gentile and drive gentile cars lol) but we are all over the place and vast, very) Most have no idea who they are and right now Messiah is using His True Servants to find them by the Preaching of the Besorah (Gospel), not the partial Gospel you here from Christendom, no.

Look in Matthew, it says by Jesus :I have come but to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel, yes the minotity of Gentiles in the world that here the message will be saved to..HalleluYAH, but the Message is aimed primarily at the Fullness of the Gentiles which is Israel! House of Judah and House of Ephraim 2 divided Houses.

This is all in Scripture, but can only be understood, if you are obedient, filled by the Spirit, humble,set apart, saved, etc.

So Jesus (I only use that name to help you see) never wanted us to eat his flesh,

No.

He was weeding out the tares. This happens all the time.

Shalom.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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6/28/2013 5:49:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 5:45:26 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Catholic Communion is like cannibalism. Eating Flesh and Drinking blood. Imagining or as the priests say actually believing those that bread and juice turn into flesh and blood in your mouth. This is cannibalism. A Dictionary can confirm this.

Okay, What did Jesus really mean?

First of all Cannibalism is not permitted in Scripture.

Jesus was speaking Metaphorically as He was known to do as with the Bide of Messiah, not literally, He was using a comparison. and analogy.

With what?

The mana from Heaven (Bread is English for the Hebrew Mana).

This verse can be found referred to particularly in the first five books of Scripture. Moses was the key figure in this reference.

Mana came from Heaven and this Mana is what the Israelites were eating in the desert to stay alive.

Now, it is really not to involved, but It would take some time, but basically Jesus was weeding out The followers Rock water.

He wants true followers. so He used a Metaphor relating to the story of Moses and the Mana and then knowing that the followers would see it as cfannibilism, then they got discouraged. CANNABILISM, no way and rightly so. They misinterpreted His Metaphor and bailed on Him

The point is True followers will follow Yahushua no matter what. It is called Trust.

Even though I don't know every thing (How could I ) I will still follow God.

I must trust Him, have too, In this massive and evil world? Yes, we have too.

Peter responded to Yahshua after Hegave them the Metaphor "You must eat my flesh and drink my blood and later ....What say you?"

Peter responded with sorrow at the Jesus's statement:

"Where would we go? You have the words of eternal life?" Excellent Peter.

Upset Peter was by the idea of Cannabilism, but He trusted the Messiah enough to respond correctly with "You have the words of eternal life"

All of this is a "weeding out" process and very important to know Rock water.

Only a remnant of Israel will be saved, in those Israelites (Jews and a large throng of Ephramites, a minority will be believing gentiles for the population of the world is mostly Ephramites from the lost and exiled Northern Kingdom of Israel around 731 BCE).

We are every where assimilated into the Nation's, we look gentile, act gentile and drive gentile cars lol) but we are all over the place and vast, very) Most have no idea who they are and right now Messiah is using His True Servants to find them by the Preaching of the Besorah (Gospel), not the partial Gospel you here from Christendom, no.

Look in Matthew, it says by Jesus :I have come but to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel, yes the minotity of Gentiles in the world that here the message will be saved to..HalleluYAH, but the Message is aimed primarily at the Fullness of the Gentiles which is Israel! House of Judah and House of Ephraim 2 divided Houses.

This is all in Scripture, but can only be understood, if you are obedient, filled by the Spirit, humble,set apart, saved, etc.

So Jesus (I only use that name to help you see) never wanted us to eat his flesh,

No.

He was weeding out the tares. This happens all the time.

Shalom.

Sower, I think Jesus meant something else by comparing himself with the bread, I think he meant Knowledge, He is the word of God, the Word of God is knowledge, and only through knowledge can you have eternal life, we have to take that knowledge form him, does that not make a sense ?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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6/28/2013 6:33:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Rockwater, try getting a copy of the Campbell-Purcell Debate (probably available on eBay), a meeting of two of the greatest minds of the early 19th century: Alexander Campbell and Archbishop John Purcell of Cincinnati. It is indeed startling to see a Catholic bishop (later an archbishop) admit that he knows of no Catholic who believes the pope to be infallible. He didn't - and he didn't know any who did.

The discussion, held in 1837 I believe, will not answer all of your questions at all, but perhaps you should read it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
question4u
Posts: 492
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6/28/2013 7:37:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 1:58:44 PM, rockwater wrote:
I find it harder and harder every day to remain a Roman Catholic. I was baptized Catholic as a baby but was not raised Catholic. I went through RCIA, first communion, and confirmation in college.

First, let me say jthat I do not expect a real answer to my problems from this forum. I talk to priests, family, friends, therapists, etc., for all that, and I pray. I just want to have a discussion here.

Second, please do not try to convince me to become an Evangelical Protestant. It ain't gonna happen. I like my statues and icons and kneeling in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament and praying to Mary and the Saints for the Souls in Purgatory, thank you very much. I also think the Pope on certain matters at certain times does have a hotline to the Holy Spirit to teach the infallible truth - I just do not think the Holy Spirit uses that hotline very often, and I do not think that the Pope necessarily knows when he is teaching something infallibly (when he is teaching ex cathedra on faith and morals) and when he is not.

That said, the reason I have trouble remaining Roman Catholic is that I am gay and married to another man (we married in a Lutheran church - because they were willing to marry us - and my husband goes there now). My conscience thinks it is extremely unfair that women cannot have the teaching and judicial authority of priests and bishops in matters of faith and morals. Frankly, there isn't very much at all of Roman Caatholic teaching on sex that my conscience can accept. I don't even believe that relationships need to be monogamous.

Furthermore, I do not think that people of other faiths are necessarily wrong in anything they believe, or that it is necessarily any better for them to convert to Catholicism than to stay where they are. I believe in purgatory and hell, but I think that even people in hell can learn that they are wrong, come to repentance, and eventually reach heaven (although it might take a long and difficult time).

So why don't I become an Anglo-Catholic (where there are women and gay priests) or a Unitarian Universalist (where all forms of belief are celebrated as equally true and people generally do not believe in eternal inescapable damnation)? I guess it is because I believe that if you are going to be a (small-c) catholic Christian, which I am, you may as well all belong to the same Church and have the same Pope as leader (unity of the Body of Christ, etc, etc - but I'm not sure how I fit my belief that non-Catholics do not need to convert in there). I also think that the Roman Catholic Church will never develop a mire just understanding of the role if women or human sexuality if all dissenters merely left it. Even if I have been excommunicated for getting gay-married, an excommunicated Catholic is still a Catholic (even the Catechism says that).

That said, reform of the kind I am praying for will probably not happen in my lifetime, and why should I have to live my whole life without ever feeling accepted by my faith community (not by an individual priest or parish, but by the Church as a whole)? Why should I have to feel like I am lying and cheating the system every time I receive communion or absolution, especially if it is from a priest I do not know? The list could go on and on.

What I will say is if you are going go to another denomination of christianity it is best to stay with the mother church but if you plan on giving up christianity then that is different leave quickly
Sower4GS
Posts: 1,718
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6/28/2013 7:53:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 5:49:43 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 6/28/2013 5:45:26 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Catholic Communion is like cannibalism. Eating Flesh and Drinking blood. Imagining or as the priests say actually believing those that bread and juice turn into flesh and blood in your mouth. This is cannibalism. A Dictionary can confirm this.

Okay, What did Jesus really mean?

First of all Cannibalism is not permitted in Scripture.

Jesus was speaking Metaphorically as He was known to do as with the Bide of Messiah, not literally, He was using a comparison. and analogy.

With what?

The mana from Heaven (Bread is English for the Hebrew Mana).

This verse can be found referred to particularly in the first five books of Scripture. Moses was the key figure in this reference.

Mana came from Heaven and this Mana is what the Israelites were eating in the desert to stay alive.

Now, it is really not to involved, but It would take some time, but basically Jesus was weeding out The followers Rock water.

He wants true followers. so He used a Metaphor relating to the story of Moses and the Mana and then knowing that the followers would see it as cfannibilism, then they got discouraged. CANNABILISM, no way and rightly so. They misinterpreted His Metaphor and bailed on Him

The point is True followers will follow Yahushua no matter what. It is called Trust.

Even though I don't know every thing (How could I ) I will still follow God.

I must trust Him, have too, In this massive and evil world? Yes, we have too.

Peter responded to Yahshua after Hegave them the Metaphor "You must eat my flesh and drink my blood and later ....What say you?"

Peter responded with sorrow at the Jesus's statement:

"Where would we go? You have the words of eternal life?" Excellent Peter.

Upset Peter was by the idea of Cannabilism, but He trusted the Messiah enough to respond correctly with "You have the words of eternal life"

All of this is a "weeding out" process and very important to know Rock water.

Only a remnant of Israel will be saved, in those Israelites (Jews and a large throng of Ephramites, a minority will be believing gentiles for the population of the world is mostly Ephramites from the lost and exiled Northern Kingdom of Israel around 731 BCE).

We are every where assimilated into the Nation's, we look gentile, act gentile and drive gentile cars lol) but we are all over the place and vast, very) Most have no idea who they are and right now Messiah is using His True Servants to find them by the Preaching of the Besorah (Gospel), not the partial Gospel you here from Christendom, no.

Look in Matthew, it says by Jesus :I have come but to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel, yes the minotity of Gentiles in the world that here the message will be saved to..HalleluYAH, but the Message is aimed primarily at the Fullness of the Gentiles which is Israel! House of Judah and House of Ephraim 2 divided Houses.

This is all in Scripture, but can only be understood, if you are obedient, filled by the Spirit, humble,set apart, saved, etc.

So Jesus (I only use that name to help you see) never wanted us to eat his flesh,

No.

He was weeding out the tares. This happens all the time.

Shalom.

Sower, I think Jesus meant something else by comparing himself with the bread, I think he meant Knowledge, He is the word of God, the Word of God is knowledge, and only through knowledge can you have eternal life, we have to take that knowledge form him,

And so all of those things are inclusive. From Sower.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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6/28/2013 9:25:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 5:45:26 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
Catholic Communion is like cannibalism. Eating Flesh and Drinking blood. Imagining or as the priests say actually believing those that bread and juice turn into flesh and blood in your mouth. This is cannibalism. A Dictionary can confirm this.

Okay, What did Jesus really mean?

First of all Cannibalism is not permitted in Scripture.

Jesus was speaking Metaphorically as He was known to do as with the Bide of Messiah, not literally, He was using a comparison. and analogy.

With what?

The mana from Heaven (Bread is English for the Hebrew Mana).

This verse can be found referred to particularly in the first five books of Scripture. Moses was the key figure in this reference.

Mana came from Heaven and this Mana is what the Israelites were eating in the desert to stay alive.

Now, it is really not to involved, but It would take some time, but basically Jesus was weeding out The followers Rock water.

He wants true followers. so He used a Metaphor relating to the story of Moses and the Mana and then knowing that the followers would see it as cfannibilism, then they got discouraged. CANNABILISM, no way and rightly so. They misinterpreted His Metaphor and bailed on Him

The point is True followers will follow Yahushua no matter what. It is called Trust.

Even though I don't know every thing (How could I ) I will still follow God.

I must trust Him, have too, In this massive and evil world? Yes, we have too.

Peter responded to Yahshua after Hegave them the Metaphor "You must eat my flesh and drink my blood and later ....What say you?"

Peter responded with sorrow at the Jesus's statement:

"Where would we go? You have the words of eternal life?" Excellent Peter.

Upset Peter was by the idea of Cannabilism, but He trusted the Messiah enough to respond correctly with "You have the words of eternal life"

All of this is a "weeding out" process and very important to know Rock water.

Only a remnant of Israel will be saved, in those Israelites (Jews and a large throng of Ephramites, a minority will be believing gentiles for the population of the world is mostly Ephramites from the lost and exiled Northern Kingdom of Israel around 731 BCE).

We are every where assimilated into the Nation's, we look gentile, act gentile and drive gentile cars lol) but we are all over the place and vast, very) Most have no idea who they are and right now Messiah is using His True Servants to find them by the Preaching of the Besorah (Gospel), not the partial Gospel you here from Christendom, no.

Look in Matthew, it says by Jesus :I have come but to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel, yes the minotity of Gentiles in the world that here the message will be saved to..HalleluYAH, but the Message is aimed primarily at the Fullness of the Gentiles which is Israel! House of Judah and House of Ephraim 2 divided Houses.

This is all in Scripture, but can only be understood, if you are obedient, filled by the Spirit, humble,set apart, saved, etc.

So Jesus (I only use that name to help you see) never wanted us to eat his flesh,

No.

He was weeding out the tares. This happens all the time.

Shalom.

I love the fact that I get to eat human flesh and drink human blood every Sunday. The Mass is a human sacrifice offered to God the Father for the reconciliation of all. And then we eat the sacrifice! I love it. It's so pagan and so Christian at the same time. Just like God wanted. Of course God had to become human for all of this to be possible.

Sower4GS and Fruitytree, I do not believe Scripture should be interpreted literally, nor do I think that any interpretation other than the Church's, no matter how scholarly, is to be accepted as accurate. I also do not believe that Scripture contains all of divine Revelation.

Sower4GS, I appreciate your concern for my spiritual welfare. However, I just do not agree with Messianic Judaism or whatever you call your set of beliefs. I have said what I believe and thus thread is not about changing what I believe so much as figuring out where I belong. Thanks again for the advice but we just need to agree to disagree.