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How can it be? For Christs sake.

johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/4/2013 1:32:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

shhh shh sh, don't think about it too much. I'll make more sense that way
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
PureX
Posts: 1,518
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7/4/2013 3:08:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

The truth often appears to we limited humans as a paradox.

In the time, place, and culture in which it's said that Jesus lived, most people lived in family clans. And these clans were a kind of familial incorporation, ruled by the clan's patriarch. The sons of the patriarch were considered by the members of the other family clans to be living representations of their patriarch. If a son made a deal with another family, it was assumed that he did so as a representative of the patriarch. They were sort of 'mini-me's' of the boss.

So that when Jesus called himself the "son of God", he was in effect referring to himself as God's representative, which meant that people were to presume he was speaking and acting with knowledge of God's will and with God's blessing and authority. Because that's how people of that time viewed the sons of a family clan patriarch. It's not the same as claiming that he's God, but it's not the same as what we now would consider a "son", either. He's claiming himself to be an human extension of God, Himself. As that's what sons were seen to be in those days.

And he was doing this for a reason. He was trying to convey the idea to the rest of us, that we are human 'extensions' of, or expressions of our creator-God. That God's spirit is acting in and through us, if we will recognize this, and allow it to do so.

There is more to his message, of course, but this is why he referred to himself as he did.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/4/2013 3:32:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So you wanted Jesus to just get up there right away and say "I'm Yawhew" and get himself stoned right away which would have been counter intuitive to his mission in the first place?
Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
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7/4/2013 3:39:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

That's religion for you. Makes absolutely no sense but you cannot say that because you may offend someone's beliefs. So best keep quiet on this one.
Turn around, go back.
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/4/2013 3:47:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
o.O I want to know why it's necessary for us to know such detail about history in order to properly understand the Bible.

Why did God make it so hard for us to understand what he's really saying? Not to mention that the Bible was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Even people who are literate in these languages have a hard time understanding it's text. Can you imagine trying to translate something like that into English? I can only imagine how flawed the English translations of the Bible must be. I think God needs to give us some comprehend able text.
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/4/2013 3:48:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 3:39:48 PM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:

That's religion for you. Makes absolutely no sense but you cannot say that because you may offend someone's beliefs. So best keep quiet on this one.

That kind of attitude is what keeps Jihad around.
Drayson
Posts: 288
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7/4/2013 4:13:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd be kind of surprised if THAT was the part of the bible you had the biggest issue with.
"I'm not saying I don't trust you...and I'm not saying I do. But I don't"

-Topper Harley
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/5/2013 10:25:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 3:08:21 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

The truth often appears to we limited humans as a paradox.

In the time, place, and culture in which it's said that Jesus lived, most people lived in family clans. And these clans were a kind of familial incorporation, ruled by the clan's patriarch. The sons of the patriarch were considered by the members of the other family clans to be living representations of their patriarch. If a son made a deal with another family, it was assumed that he did so as a representative of the patriarch. They were sort of 'mini-me's' of the boss.

So that when Jesus called himself the "son of God", he was in effect referring to himself as God's representative, which meant that people were to presume he was speaking and acting with knowledge of God's will and with God's blessing and authority. Because that's how people of that time viewed the sons of a family clan patriarch. It's not the same as claiming that he's God, but it's not the same as what we now would consider a "son", either. He's claiming himself to be an human extension of God, Himself. As that's what sons were seen to be in those days.

And he was doing this for a reason. He was trying to convey the idea to the rest of us, that we are human 'extensions' of, or expressions of our creator-God. That God's spirit is acting in and through us, if we will recognize this, and allow it to do so.

There is more to his message, of course, but this is why he referred to himself as he did.

Well there is a new explanation I have never heard of, I appreciate you sharing your views, however it doesn't quite resolve the issue. I am still left wondering how?
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/5/2013 10:26:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 3:47:26 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
o.O I want to know why it's necessary for us to know such detail about history in order to properly understand the Bible.

Why did God make it so hard for us to understand what he's really saying? Not to mention that the Bible was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Even people who are literate in these languages have a hard time understanding it's text. Can you imagine trying to translate something like that into English? I can only imagine how flawed the English translations of the Bible must be. I think God needs to give us some comprehend able text.

My sentiments exactly.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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7/5/2013 1:49:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

It is the unity of the Father, Son and Spirit that make a single unit. Jesus did and does the perfect will of the Father as well as the Spirit of God, they alone do the absolute perfect will of the other which is why Jesus says when you see Him you see the Father, they are one and of one accord comparable to three cords but braid them together and you have a single cord made of three. A similar but small example would be in Mark 10:8 as well as Matthew 19:5 where two people in marriage become one flesh, it is not a contradiction it is the single purpose, mind and unity that they move as one, also Acts 2:1. We honor, please and obey God, we are saved by Jesus and we live by and are guided by the Spirit.

Jesus in Heaven was obedient to the point of death and God highly exalted Him and gave His name over all other names. He is the entry way and only mediator between God and man because of His actions, thereby God was pleased in His Son. Although Jesus may not be the Father's creator He is OUR God and our Savior, He humbled Himself and willingly was tortured on our behalf alone.
Read Philippians 2:5-11 when you get bored.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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7/5/2013 2:28:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

I touched on this Ina other thread. There is a category of belief - like birds regarding gravity, anatomy, and I would add evolution, climate change, and the psychology/physiology of sexual orientation, where ideas cannot and should not contradict themselves. Religious belief, and I would add truths in the humanities in general to this category, is different in that paradoxes like the trinity serve to enrich an idea rather tha weaken it. As long as you don't hurt people for not believing in the Trinity, then I see nothing wrong with having a paradoxical belief like this.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/6/2013 5:08:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 1:49:15 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

It is the unity of the Father, Son and Spirit that make a single unit. Jesus did and does the perfect will of the Father as well as the Spirit of God, they alone do the absolute perfect will of the other which is why Jesus says when you see Him you see the Father, they are one and of one accord comparable to three cords but braid them together and you have a single cord made of three. A similar but small example would be in Mark 10:8 as well as Matthew 19:5 where two people in marriage become one flesh, it is not a contradiction it is the single purpose, mind and unity that they move as one, also Acts 2:1. We honor, please and obey God, we are saved by Jesus and we live by and are guided by the Spirit.

Jesus in Heaven was obedient to the point of death and God highly exalted Him and gave His name over all other names. He is the entry way and only mediator between God and man because of His actions, thereby God was pleased in His Son. Although Jesus may not be the Father's creator He is OUR God and our Savior, He humbled Himself and willingly was tortured on our behalf alone.
Read Philippians 2:5-11 when you get bored.

I am sorry brother but I fail to make sense of the logic you present, it seems like you are making excuses, simply because you want to believe it is so......

You say two people become one flesh? Actually they don't, they remain as individuals, with their individuality in-tact.
I can not make you choose, and you can not make me choose, that is the meaning of individuality.....You say Jesus did the will of the father even up until death and this pleased the father, so Jesus had a choice, that means he was an individual.

It's like a maths sum, where 1=1=1 does not equal 1. it equals three.....Jesus is not God but an individual, in my eyes at least...

I mean no offence I am simply stating things as I see them.

Peace.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/6/2013 7:00:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

I have to admit I sympathise with you on that one, it was the first question that crossed my mind as a child.

The truth of the matter is, that he isn't, wasn't and never could be

John 1:14 makes that very clear indeed:

John 1:14
ASV(i) 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

If you are begotten you are either born or created

If you are the only-begotten son you are the only son created, by the one who created you, without assistance.

There is literally no other way to understand that which is why trinitarians try so hard to wriggle out of it or ignore it.

Was the one who became Jesus God's only son, either in heaven or in the flesh?

Job 2:1
ASV(i) 1 Again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah.

So that is a No to the first.

Luke 3:38
ASV(i) 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

So that's a No to that also.

Therefore the statement can only be taken as a whole and to mean that Christ was the only creation that God performed alone.

So in fact your question should not be, "How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time", instead it should be, "How can anyone be gullible enough to believe that Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time"
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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7/6/2013 7:03:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

First off, the "Son," in the context you speak of, in the original language means something different then "My son" as if a man was talking. It speaks of a part of the Trinity in a unique word with no direct English translation, so "Son" is what was translated.

Second, Jesus claims to be God several times in the Bible

1. In John 10 30-33:
"30 I and the Father are one."

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

33 "We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Now for I AM statements. I AM is the translation for the Hebrew special name for God. Very sacred. Jesus used it often.

"I AM the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." John 10:9

"I AM the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser." John 15:1

This is the idea of the Trinity. It is a concept that, physically speaking, requires a fourth dimension of space. Our minds or three dimensional. Don't bother trying to understand.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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7/6/2013 2:46:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 5:08:22 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 7/5/2013 1:49:15 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

It is the unity of the Father, Son and Spirit that make a single unit. Jesus did and does the perfect will of the Father as well as the Spirit of God, they alone do the absolute perfect will of the other which is why Jesus says when you see Him you see the Father, they are one and of one accord comparable to three cords but braid them together and you have a single cord made of three. A similar but small example would be in Mark 10:8 as well as Matthew 19:5 where two people in marriage become one flesh, it is not a contradiction it is the single purpose, mind and unity that they move as one, also Acts 2:1. We honor, please and obey God, we are saved by Jesus and we live by and are guided by the Spirit.

Jesus in Heaven was obedient to the point of death and God highly exalted Him and gave His name over all other names. He is the entry way and only mediator between God and man because of His actions, thereby God was pleased in His Son. Although Jesus may not be the Father's creator He is OUR God and our Savior, He humbled Himself and willingly was tortured on our behalf alone.
Read Philippians 2:5-11 when you get bored.


I am sorry brother but I fail to make sense of the logic you present, it seems like you are making excuses, simply because you want to believe it is so......

You say two people become one flesh? Actually they don't, they remain as individuals, with their individuality in-tact.
I can not make you choose, and you can not make me choose, that is the meaning of individuality.....You say Jesus did the will of the father even up until death and this pleased the father, so Jesus had a choice, that means he was an individual.


It's like a maths sum, where 1=1=1 does not equal 1. it equals three.....Jesus is not God but an individual, in my eyes at least...


I mean no offence I am simply stating things as I see them.


Peace.

Okay that's cool if it is dumb to you then I won't waste your time, but first I don't make excuses I'm telling you what I believe and have learned so take it or leave it.

Second you missed my point. I said it is their UNITY that makes them one, that is why I left a couple of passages to show you how the scripture shows unity in spirit creates a single unit or purpose. And I never said they were not individuals, I said they were. I clearly stated that in my silly "braid" cord example, this is not a math problem sorry. If you don't understand the things of the Spirit you will probably not get what I'm saying here.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,040
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7/6/2013 3:15:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

johnlubba good to meet you...
I reply: It started with ADAM the perfect man!!
God creates everything PERFECTLY .. he created the first man PERFECT.. Adam was without sin!!
So far so good??

The perfect man sinned... Adam became corrupted and he alone brought sin into the world because; ONLY men can sin! The perfect creation was corrupted by Adams sin.. Creation was corrupted so DEATH entered the world.. The wages of sin is death! There was NO death until Adams sin.. Death is now in the world so ALL MUST DIE!!
Got it??

Here is where Jesus comes in: Man needed to be perfect to destroy death..... BUT...
johnlubba but because all men are born corrupted being born into a corrupted world all are born UN-Perfect!
johnlubba We needed a perfect man and no man could ever be found perfect! Man was stuck.. Stuck between a rock and hard spot! THAT IS..

johnlubba that is until Jesus the PERFECT Uncorrupted man was born! God sent his one and only son to pay the price for the sin of Adam.. Jesus the God/Man came to the earth to DIE to destroy death and to restore life!

THINK... No man can die if first the man is not first born.. Logic alone tells you so!!
Jesus was BORN a MAN so he could DIE MAN!!
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Jesus is "the SON of Man"!
Matthew 8:20
Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."

Jesus is "the SON of God"!
Matthew 8:29
"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

Jesus is the God Man!
100% man and 100% God!

LOOK... But first know there are TWO, TWO trees in Paradise.. The "Tree Of KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil"
&
"The Tree of LIFE"!! Adam was allowed to eat all he wanted from the "Tree Of Life" but not to eat of "The Tree Of KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil"!!!
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Adam became LIKE one of the three.. He became like the Holy Spirit. He was stopped from becoming like Jesus.. "The LIFE"!

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

johnlubba Adam DIED because he lost access to "The Tree Of LIFE" he could not eat of the tree so Adam DIED!! Death was in the world!

Jesus HAS ACCESS.. He is "The LIFE" come down from heaven!!!

John 6:32
Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
34 "Sir," they said, "always give us this bread."
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life.


DO YOU SEE IT???
Do you understand??!

Dogknox
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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7/6/2013 5:35:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If any person here can take three strands of cord and braid them and they become "one" strand made of three, then the concept of unity within a trinity can be possible.
For us in our physical limitations spiritual truths and principles are mainly conceptualized, they are not physically tangible, that is why Jesus uses parables and physical comparisons to explain spiritual truths.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/7/2013 3:27:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 3:11:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
What did you think of the Philippians verse I left?

Interesting verse, Only it seems more like another riddle and it doesn't make sense, of course I understand it, but it just doesn't ring true......You say they are individuals, Yet you say they are unified as one, This again doesn't make sense,

You used an example of two people becoming one flesh, which in simpler terms could mean unified. But this doesn't actually mean they lose their individuality, indeed many people could unify and yet they remain individuals.

You said that Jesus and God are individuals, I fail how to see they are yet the same person. How can a son be the father, it is ridiculous, there is no need for me to say I am my own son, I apologize again, but I just do not get it.

The assumption that Jesus is God is an insult to God.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/7/2013 3:57:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hello Dognox, Nice to meet you, and thank you for your respnonse.

I have to disagree with your post, firstly the story of Adam and Eve, is not a factual event, everything you say is based on the desire to believe it was, and that eve let sin enter the world by eating of the forbidden fruit. this is not factual but based upon a subjective desire to believe it as fact......

Secondly, even if it was true, why does God have to kill his own son, ( Which isn't his son), but is actually supposed to be himself...Confused yet, I am ....

What power has sin over God, it's an absurd idea to believe, that God who is almighty, has no power over sin until he offers his own son to be sacrificed, and then and only then can God overpower sin.....LOL

I AM SORRY BUT IT'S JUST ABSURD.

What happened to all the souls before Jesus came and died, Your story implies that man and God parted due to sin, that God could not save man or that man could not save himself, due to Gods pride in an rule he created, so he then has no choice but to banish souls to hell......

I can not understand why God waited so long and why so many souls were left to suffer until God decided,

I have an idea, I will manifest myself in the flesh, and call myself my son, I will be pure, because I am God and sin has no power over me anyway, even in the form of a man, I am still God, but then I will sacrifice myself and let them kill me, so I can defeat sin and free the whole of mankind......Which only a fraction will make it to heaven and I will cast the majority of the population to hell.....

I am sorry but this sounds so out there that it actually makes me afraid to think that there are some who buy into this.

Again I mean no offence, but think it will be more offensive if I never told those who do believe what I truly think.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/7/2013 4:24:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:00:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/4/2013 1:30:12 PM, johnlubba wrote:
How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time, that's the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my whole entire life.....

Seriously, if Jesus is God then why does he claim to be the son of God, why not just say I am God? Instead of saying, "I am God and also I am the son of God"....

This baffles me to bits.

I have to admit I sympathise with you on that one, it was the first question that crossed my mind as a child.

The truth of the matter is, that he isn't, wasn't and never could be

John 1:14 makes that very clear indeed:

John 1:14
ASV(i) 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

If you are begotten you are either born or created

If you are the only-begotten son you are the only son created, by the one who created you, without assistance.

There is literally no other way to understand that which is why trinitarians try so hard to wriggle out of it or ignore it.

Was the one who became Jesus God's only son, either in heaven or in the flesh?

Job 2:1
ASV(i) 1 Again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah.

So that is a No to the first.

Luke 3:38
ASV(i) 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

So that's a No to that also.

Therefore the statement can only be taken as a whole and to mean that Christ was the only creation that God performed alone.

So in fact your question should not be, "How can Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time", instead it should be, "How can anyone be gullible enough to believe that Jesus be Gods son, and be God at the same time"

That's a bit harsh, but you have a point and I agree.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,040
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7/7/2013 11:28:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 3:57:30 AM, johnlubba wrote:
Hello Dognox, Nice to meet you, and thank you for your respnonse.


I have to disagree with your post, firstly the story of Adam and Eve, is not a factual event, everything you say is based on the desire to believe it was, and that eve let sin enter the world by eating of the forbidden fruit. this is not factual but based upon a subjective desire to believe it as fact......


Secondly, even if it was true, why does God have to kill his own son, ( Which isn't his son), but is actually supposed to be himself...Confused yet, I am ....

What power has sin over God, it's an absurd idea to believe, that God who is almighty, has no power over sin until he offers his own son to be sacrificed, and then and only then can God overpower sin.....LOL

I AM SORRY BUT IT'S JUST ABSURD.

What happened to all the souls before Jesus came and died, Your story implies that man and God parted due to sin, that God could not save man or that man could not save himself, due to Gods pride in an rule he created, so he then has no choice but to banish souls to hell......

I can not understand why God waited so long and why so many souls were left to suffer until God decided,

I have an idea, I will manifest myself in the flesh, and call myself my son, I will be pure, because I am God and sin has no power over me anyway, even in the form of a man, I am still God, but then I will sacrifice myself and let them kill me, so I can defeat sin and free the whole of mankind......Which only a fraction will make it to heaven and I will cast the majority of the population to hell.....


I am sorry but this sounds so out there that it actually makes me afraid to think that there are some who buy into this.

Again I mean no offence, but think it will be more offensive if I never told those who do believe what I truly think.

johnlubba Hello again... So the Adam and Eve story is not true!!! AND..... You lack all faith!!! Not having faith is okay... BUT read on...
First... Sin is to DISOBEY God!!
They disobeyed God. Adam disobeyed God, Eve Disobeyed Adam!
The story does not matter except.. Creation was corrupted!
God does not make corruption man does because he is corrupted!

FACT: Only men can sin...Dogs, cows, monkeys, snails etc, cannot sin!! God became MAN... The perfect man was born and the perfect man did not sin! Adam sinned.. Jesus did not!

johnlubba All religions require a degree of FAITH!!!!
Even YOU.. >>YOU << have >>FAITH<< the story of Adam and Eve is not true! You have NO PROOF just your >>FAITH<< tells you it is not true!!

Christians have >>FAITH<< in eternal life!!!
You lack >>FAITH<< It clear you are NOT Christian... Not being Christian is okay... I will continue with the FAITH Christians have in Jesus and his resurrection!!

As the story of Jesus progressed... Jesus died >>SINLESS<< because "Sin brings DEATH".. Jesus could not die..
johnlubba Jesus POPPED UP, out of the grave as a Cork would POP up released from the bottom of a pool of water!

Soooo (here is the kicker) if you can be IMMERSED into the body of the risen Jesus you will not die!!! NO ONE...
johnlubba no one can die more then one time.. YOU..
johnlubba you can't even kill a no good for nut-in stinking dog twice!!! Even dogs can die only one time!!

Jesus died and RESURRECTED he was without sin.. so if you could get yourself "ADDED" to Jesus' resurrected body you also would rise!!! Being ADDED to Jesus' resurrected body you also can't die, Jesus has been there and done that!!

LOOK...
1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also"not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Baptism that now saves you...
DO YOU SEE IT... ?!? The word Baptism means IMMERSED!!

Acts 2:40
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.


johnlubba Peter "ADDED 3000" to the body of Jesus in one day>> By IMMERSING them into the body of Jesus, by baptizing them into Jesus resurrected Body they were saved!!!

johnlubba So there it is in a nut shell!! Christians have >>FAITH<< in Jesus, in Jesus resurrection!!
Dogknox
Posts: 5,040
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7/7/2013 11:32:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
johnlubba
You are a Hindu - Vaishnavism!!

I have to scratch my head??? You have FAITH the "Adam & Eve" story is NOT true... BUT...

johnlubba but you have FAITH.. there is a God... VISHNU??!!! Whack-OH to say the least!!!!??
Rational_Thinker9119
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7/7/2013 11:50:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 3:32:29 PM, stubs wrote:
So you wanted Jesus to just get up there right away and say "I'm Yawhew" and get himself stoned right away which would have been counter intuitive to his mission in the first place?

Lol The entire story of Jesus is counter-intuitive (virgin birth, Really?!).I mean, you believe enough nonsense already, there is no real harm in adding some more crap on the pile!
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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7/7/2013 12:05:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 3:27:17 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:11:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
What did you think of the Philippians verse I left?


Interesting verse, Only it seems more like another riddle and it doesn't make sense, of course I understand it, but it just doesn't ring true......You say they are individuals, Yet you say they are unified as one, This again doesn't make sense,

You used an example of two people becoming one flesh, which in simpler terms could mean unified. But this doesn't actually mean they lose their individuality, indeed many people could unify and yet they remain individuals.

You said that Jesus and God are individuals, I fail how to see they are yet the same person. How can a son be the father, it is ridiculous, there is no need for me to say I am my own son, I apologize again, but I just do not get it.

The assumption that Jesus is God is an insult to God.

Okay at this point I'll just drop it but I wanted you to know again that I said more than once that they were INDIVIDUALS, yet you keep saying that I said otherwise, but okay whatever.

Actually that verse is anything but confusing lol, I have a hard time believing that it is not clear to you.
Dogknox
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7/7/2013 1:22:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 11:50:45 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/4/2013 3:32:29 PM, stubs wrote:
So you wanted Jesus to just get up there right away and say "I'm Yawhew" and get himself stoned right away which would have been counter intuitive to his mission in the first place?

Lol The entire story of Jesus is counter-intuitive (virgin birth, Really?!).I mean, you believe enough nonsense already, there is no real harm in adding some more crap on the pile!

Rational_Thinker9119 Good to meet you... Question.. So you BELIEVE there was NO virgin birth?? Do I have it right!?
You have >>FAITH<< there wasn't a Virgin birth??!

Old Testament... Written long before Jesus arrived!
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Rational_Thinker9119 I have based my >>FAITH<< in the words of God!! Your faith is based on yourself... A "WISH" is all you have to go on!

Dogknox
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/7/2013 11:23:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 1:22:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 7/7/2013 11:50:45 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/4/2013 3:32:29 PM, stubs wrote:
So you wanted Jesus to just get up there right away and say "I'm Yawhew" and get himself stoned right away which would have been counter intuitive to his mission in the first place?

Lol The entire story of Jesus is counter-intuitive (virgin birth, Really?!).I mean, you believe enough nonsense already, there is no real harm in adding some more crap on the pile!

Rational_Thinker9119 Good to meet you... Question.. So you BELIEVE there was NO virgin birth?? Do I have it right!?
You have >>FAITH<< there wasn't a Virgin birth??!

Old Testament... Written long before Jesus arrived!
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").


Rational_Thinker9119 I have based my >>FAITH<< in the words of God!! Your faith is based on yourself... A "WISH" is all you have to go on!

Dogknox

No, I base it on science; not faith. A virgin birth in context is impossible biologically.
johnlubba
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7/8/2013 11:27:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 11:32:17 AM, Dogknox wrote:
johnlubba
You are a Hindu - Vaishnavism!!

I have to scratch my head??? You have FAITH the "Adam & Eve" story is NOT true... BUT...

johnlubba but you have FAITH.. there is a God... VISHNU??!!! Whack-OH to say the least!!!!??

actually I am not a hindu, I also am not a believer in Visnu, I do enjoy reading the Vedas, they have a wealth of knowledge concerning God's attributes,

But just to be clear I am not religious, I do not believe in religion, I believe in God.

I do not believe the Bible or any so called holy scritpures, my choice of preference however is Vedic philosophy.
johnlubba
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7/8/2013 11:56:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 12:05:40 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/7/2013 3:27:17 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:11:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
What did you think of the Philippians verse I left?


Interesting verse, Only it seems more like another riddle and it doesn't make sense, of course I understand it, but it just doesn't ring true......You say they are individuals, Yet you say they are unified as one, This again doesn't make sense,

You used an example of two people becoming one flesh, which in simpler terms could mean unified. But this doesn't actually mean they lose their individuality, indeed many people could unify and yet they remain individuals.

You said that Jesus and God are individuals, I fail how to see they are yet the same person. How can a son be the father, it is ridiculous, there is no need for me to say I am my own son, I apologize again, but I just do not get it.

The assumption that Jesus is God is an insult to God.

Okay at this point I'll just drop it but I wanted you to know again that I said more than once that they were INDIVIDUALS, yet you keep saying that I said otherwise, but okay whatever.

Actually that verse is anything but confusing lol, I have a hard time believing that it is not clear to you.

I never said you said they were not individuals, I said if they are individuals then how can they be the same person, just because two people can unify it doesn't make them the same person, they are still individuals.