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Sincere Questions about Christianity

CanWeKnow
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7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
OK. If you've read any of my posts in other topics you already know that I am an agnostic or atheist. I don't want this to dissuade any informed Christian from answering my questions. I sincerely want to know the answers for my own sake. Like most atheists I have been down the Christian path before, so I have a basic knowledge of my religion's teachings.

If in fact my understandings of Christianity are wrong it would go a long way to reforming my world view. I don't want to know the answer to feel validated, I sincerely want to understand Christianity in it's entirety.

With that in mind here are some of my questions:

1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?
If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator? (In other words, is there Emotional Intelligence and how does that relate to Critical Thinking?)

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?

4)What exactly did we think we knew about before we came to this Earth? In other words, what knowledge did we have before we were sent to be educated?

5)What makes a person's soul less logical than another in the pre-existence? Were some souls given poor logic or poor information? For what purpose?

6) If we didn't ask for logic & reason out of our free will than isn't God exactly like Lucifer? He forced us to think rationally under the illusion that we chose to. Given the option between God's Plan and Lucifer's the choice to choose rationally was already made for us.

7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?
If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?

You may choose to answer any or all of these questions as you please.
I won't debate you on ethics or possibility. I just want logical explanations, rather than the typical "I don't know because I'm human. God knows why he did it because he is God."
If that's true than I don't want to worship an incomprehensible, unjustifiable, and irrational God. If I am going to worship it should be because he is worthy of it. It shouldn't be solely because he is powerful.

Thank You, and I look forward to receiving some answers.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/5/2013 2:32:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm also agnostic-atheist, so I know this wasn't directed at me, but:

At 7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:

7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?
If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?

The first question is a good one, but I'm curious about the grounds for asking the second. I mean, obviously the fundamentalists think they're right. But then, just as obviously, the non-fundamentalists think so, too.
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/5/2013 2:57:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
OK. If you've read any of my posts in other topics you already know that I am an agnostic or atheist. I don't want this to dissuade any informed Christian from answering my questions. I sincerely want to know the answers for my own sake. Like most atheists I have been down the Christian path before, so I have a basic knowledge of my religion's teachings.

If in fact my understandings of Christianity are wrong it would go a long way to reforming my world view. I don't want to know the answer to feel validated, I sincerely want to understand Christianity in it's entirety.

With that in mind here are some of my questions:

1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?

I'm not sure I get you. Are you asking is that what constitutes being a Christian? Or ar y ou asking do our reasons for being a Christians basically boil down to the feeling we get while doing various religious activites?

If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator? (In other words, is there Emotional Intelligence and how does that relate to Critical Thinking?)

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?


^ Pending answer number 1.

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?


A lot of research in the field of the cognitive science of religion has shown that we as humans, (generally speaking) are cognitively biased towards believing in God(s).

http://www.amazon.com...

4)What exactly did we think we knew about before we came to this Earth? In other words, what knowledge did we have before we were sent to be educated?


Again, that hinges on Christian belief in the pre-existence of souls and I'm not so sure it's that widespread.

5)What makes a person's soul less logical than another in the pre-existence? Were some souls given poor logic or poor information? For what purpose?


I don't know. I'm pretty sure most Christians don't believe in the pre-existence of souls in the first place. Or at least they're agnostic about it. Origen was condemened for such a belief over a thousand years ago.

6) If we didn't ask for logic & reason out of our free will than isn't God exactly like Lucifer? He forced us to think rationally under the illusion that we chose to. Given the option between God's Plan and Lucifer's the choice to choose rationally was already made for us.


I'd think that a being having the capacity for high level reasoning and free will is an intrinsic good.


7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?

No. As in one denomination that gets all their propositions about God correctly? No.

If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?

No. I could go on and on for days about this but suffice to say, the mere fact that fundamentalists have taken over the public face of certain subsets of Christanity and somehow tricked people (and I mean both Christians and non Christians) into believing that any deviations from such aren't "true" Christanity is a miracle in and of itself. Fundamentalism is a relatively new development (early 1900's) in christian history.

Good reading on this question (from an atheist philosophy professor) is this; I highly reccomend you read it:

http://www.patheos.com...




You may choose to answer any or all of these questions as you please.
I won't debate you on ethics or possibility. I just want logical explanations, rather than the typical "I don't know because I'm human. God knows why he did it because he is God."
If that's true than I don't want to worship an incomprehensible, unjustifiable, and irrational God. If I am going to worship it should be because he is worthy of it. It shouldn't be solely because he is powerful.

Thank You, and I look forward to receiving some answers.
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PureX
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7/5/2013 3:09:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't know how to try and answer your questions. There is no one concept of Christ, nor one way of being a Christian. And I can't even answer your questions from a personal perspective because they appear to be based on assumptions that I have not personally adopted.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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7/5/2013 3:51:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
OK. If you've read any of my posts in other topics you already know that I am an agnostic or atheist. I don't want this to dissuade any informed Christian from answering my questions. I sincerely want to know the answers for my own sake. Like most atheists I have been down the Christian path before, so I have a basic knowledge of my religion's teachings.

If in fact my understandings of Christianity are wrong it would go a long way to reforming my world view. I don't want to know the answer to feel validated, I sincerely want to understand Christianity in it's entirety.

With that in mind here are some of my questions:

1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?
If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator? (In other words, is there Emotional Intelligence and how does that relate to Critical Thinking?)

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?

4)What exactly did we think we knew about before we came to this Earth? In other words, what knowledge did we have before we were sent to be educated?

5)What makes a person's soul less logical than another in the pre-existence? Were some souls given poor logic or poor information? For what purpose?

6) If we didn't ask for logic & reason out of our free will than isn't God exactly like Lucifer? He forced us to think rationally under the illusion that we chose to. Given the option between God's Plan and Lucifer's the choice to choose rationally was already made for us.


7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?
If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?



You may choose to answer any or all of these questions as you please.
I won't debate you on ethics or possibility. I just want logical explanations, rather than the typical "I don't know because I'm human. God knows why he did it because he is God."
If that's true than I don't want to worship an incomprehensible, unjustifiable, and irrational God. If I am going to worship it should be because he is worthy of it. It shouldn't be solely because he is powerful.

Thank You, and I look forward to receiving some answers.

1. Yes your relationship with God most certainly can contain feelings lol He created them and knows how we operate, however no, that is just a small aspect there are a number of aspects that confirm a Christian life. Just consider how often Jesus refers to seed, harvest and fruits of the Spirit, the Christian life should be full of God's promises and fruits without a doubt and if they are not it's time to look deep within and evaluate ourselves. Read John 12:24-26, John 10:4,5, John 14:13-21, John 15:1-11, Galatians 6:4-9 for a few examples.
As for worship in my opinion it is a two way thing, it is ones expression of love and admiration and should most certainly involve feelings in the same way you have great feelings toward anyone that means anything to you. God is a Person not a thing lol and He created us as persons and capable of feelings and expressions and they are just parts of God and pieces of Himself he imparted to us.
The feelings a person may have towards God are just a reflection of the relationship, some may have strong and others may have very little so I would not consider it to be a "reliable" indicator for another person, but it should definitely be an aspect, it would be bizarre to believe otherwise. Just take a look at a small example of some of the fruits of the Spirit- love, joy, peace, goodness, meekness, temperance, gentleness lol all involve feeling and expression Philippians 4:6,7 Psalm 37:4,5

2. We don't have to explain our feelings to an atheist.

3. Well I would say an intrinsic bias towards Himself which could lead to the plan of salvation, however faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word Romans 10:12-17

4. I don't think we knew anything before this earth and if we did I don't remember lol.

5. N/A ?

6. You have some really different views than me lol this would take me too long, sorry.

7. I actually am nondenominational because I believe that we as believers should move in one accord and in one spirit, however I know that is a dream lol. I do believe that we are created very different from one another and someone like myself may not want to go to a southern Baptist church on Sunday morning but maybe you would. I do have some objections to a few denominations but I expect with certainty that there will be differences and I believe that it is unavoidable and needed. BUT as believers we are to love one another and not judge and realize that there are many variations of people and personalities, if we just simply do are part and obey scripture we cannot go wrong, it is out of our hands.
matt.mcguire88
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7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/5/2013 4:22:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
OK. If you've read any of my posts in other topics you already know that I am an agnostic or atheist.
Not mutually exclusive: perhaps you are an agnostic-atheist; you don't believe in God(s) but don't know for sure.

I don't want this to dissuade any informed Christian from answering my questions. I sincerely want to know the answers for my own sake. Like most atheists I have been down the Christian path before, so I have a basic knowledge of my religion's teachings.

If in fact my understandings of Christianity are wrong it would go a long way to reforming my world view. I don't want to know the answer to feel validated, I sincerely want to understand Christianity in it's entirety.
Sounds honest enough.

With that in mind here are some of my questions:

1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?
No.

If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator? (In other words, is there Emotional Intelligence and how does that relate to Critical Thinking?)
See above.

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?
See above.

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?
Yes.

4)What exactly did we think we knew about before we came to this Earth? In other words, what knowledge did we have before we were sent to be educated?
We had knowledge prior to our life? I don't think that is a Christian teaching.

5)What makes a person's soul less logical than another in the pre-existence? Were some souls given poor logic or poor information? For what purpose?
See above.

6) If we didn't ask for logic & reason out of our free will than isn't God exactly like Lucifer?
Doesn't follow.

He forced us to think rationally under the illusion that we chose to.
Last I checked, the world is riddled with irrational people. Your average dog has more "reason" than your average person.

Given the option between God's Plan and Lucifer's the choice to choose rationally was already made for us.
Please explain how that is a rational concept? The choice to choose as opposed to what the choice not to choose?

7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?
Yes.

If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?
No. That's a modern deviation.

You may choose to answer any or all of these questions as you please.
I won't debate you on ethics or possibility. I just want logical explanations, rather than the typical "I don't know because I'm human. God knows why he did it because he is God."
Yes, but if you want answer's from God, you've come to the wrong place.

If that's true than I don't want to worship an incomprehensible, unjustifiable, and irrational God. If I am going to worship it should be because he is worthy of it. It shouldn't be solely because he is powerful.
That's your business, and just like everyone else: your choices will have consequences.

Thank You, and I look forward to receiving some answers.
You're quite welcome.
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CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/5/2013 5:25:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Thank you for all of your answers, here are my general replies/questions to the posts so far.

1) popculturepooka: Yes, I am asking if it boils down to your overall good feeling about your religion and what it stands for.

All: If it doesn't just boil down to feeling then what else makes you believe in the validity of your religion?

2) This is a question for those who place a strong emphasis on the validity of their religion based on their positive feeling. If it doesn't apply don't answer.

3) All: I guess my main question is: What makes each of our souls different from another soul at conception? Why are smart people smart and dumb people dumb? Did we have an identity already or is the character of our soul purely deterministic? I'm equivocating soul with self-identity.

4) All: I didn't know most Judeo-Christian faiths deny the possibility of a pre-existence. In fact it seems I don't know a lot at all.

6) tBoonePickens: This is basically the free will discussion. If God gave us all logic & reason he already ensured that we would follow him. God' didn't give us the free will to deny logic & reason. If one determines God to exist the only logical outcome would be to obey him.

7) tBoonePickens: What are your reasons for believing in your denomination as the sole true one?

I apologize if this is particular question is personal, but I feel like it's an essential part of any person's belief in their particular religion.
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/5/2013 5:28:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also,

Are we Peons created for God's purposes?

Or are we... something else????? I just feel like there is so much interpretation regarding our purpose on Earth that it's hard to know whether I should be happy to have been created or depressed to have been created.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?
matt.mcguire88
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7/6/2013 3:06:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 5:25:46 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
Thank you for all of your answers, here are my general replies/questions to the posts so far.

1) popculturepooka: Yes, I am asking if it boils down to your overall good feeling about your religion and what it stands for.

All: If it doesn't just boil down to feeling then what else makes you believe in the validity of your religion?

2) This is a question for those who place a strong emphasis on the validity of their religion based on their positive feeling. If it doesn't apply don't answer.

3) All: I guess my main question is: What makes each of our souls different from another soul at conception? Why are smart people smart and dumb people dumb? Did we have an identity already or is the character of our soul purely deterministic? I'm equivocating soul with self-identity.

4) All: I didn't know most Judeo-Christian faiths deny the possibility of a pre-existence. In fact it seems I don't know a lot at all.

6) tBoonePickens: This is basically the free will discussion. If God gave us all logic & reason he already ensured that we would follow him. God' didn't give us the free will to deny logic & reason. If one determines God to exist the only logical outcome would be to obey him.



7) tBoonePickens: What are your reasons for believing in your denomination as the sole true one?

I apologize if this is particular question is personal, but I feel like it's an essential part of any person's belief in their particular religion.

3. I believe that God does not interfere with natural processes of genealogy such as birth (aside from prayer or prophecy). What we as humans inherit in our physical genes is inherited from our lineage whatever that may bring about (intelligence, appearance ect).
However I also believe Psalm 139. It is my belief that God instills the spiritual nature within us at conception and our most inner desires, passions, abilities and of course our spiritual gifts and callings ect. And those are the sort of traits that God builds on and grows, it is our spirit man within us that God is interested in and it is our choice whether we pursue those things and build upon that which God has given us.
annanicole
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7/6/2013 3:17:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?
If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator?

"Feelings" are not a reliable indicator of facts.

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?

Answered above.

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?

Intrinsic bias negates free will.

Is there only one true Christian denomination?

There is no such thing as "Christian denomination". Such a concept is repeatedly condemned.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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7/6/2013 6:41:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
OK. If you've read any of my posts in other topics you already know that I am an agnostic or atheist. I don't want this to dissuade any informed Christian from answering my questions. I sincerely want to know the answers for my own sake. Like most atheists I have been down the Christian path before, so I have a basic knowledge of my religion's teachings.

If in fact my understandings of Christianity are wrong it would go a long way to reforming my world view. I don't want to know the answer to feel validated, I sincerely want to understand Christianity in it's entirety.

With that in mind here are some of my questions:

1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?
If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator? (In other words, is there Emotional Intelligence and how does that relate to Critical Thinking?)

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?

4)What exactly did we think we knew about before we came to this Earth? In other words, what knowledge did we have before we were sent to be educated?

5)What makes a person's soul less logical than another in the pre-existence? Were some souls given poor logic or poor information? For what purpose?

6) If we didn't ask for logic & reason out of our free will than isn't God exactly like Lucifer? He forced us to think rationally under the illusion that we chose to. Given the option between God's Plan and Lucifer's the choice to choose rationally was already made for us.


7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?
If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?



You may choose to answer any or all of these questions as you please.
I won't debate you on ethics or possibility. I just want logical explanations, rather than the typical "I don't know because I'm human. God knows why he did it because he is God."
If that's true than I don't want to worship an incomprehensible, unjustifiable, and irrational God. If I am going to worship it should be because he is worthy of it. It shouldn't be solely because he is powerful.

Thank You, and I look forward to receiving some answers.

Let me try to answer these questions. I'll provide Bible verses for reference too.

1). You do not believe in your feelings, emotions,etc. when you become a Christian. You base your entire belief on Jesus and nothing else.

Reference:
Acts 16:31
"They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." (This does not mean that if you are a Christian your family is too. Read in context for better understanding.)

Ephesians 2:8-9
"8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith"and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" 9 not by works, so that no one can boast."

2). Explained by #1. Just saying, there are a lot of times I don't "feel" like a Christian, but I know I am. Faith in Christ instead of myself.

3). Well, who's to say He didn't? The thing is, our fallen minds do not want to understand the truth. Our perfect minds, before the fall, would have.

Reference:
Romans 1:18
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,"

4). I don't get this "educated." We had no consciousness before our conception. No soul. We were created as humans on this earth. We do not have an eternal soul.

Reference:
1 Corinthians 15:46-47
"46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
47 The first man is afrom the earth; the second man is from heaven."

5). Explained above. Foundation is unfounded.

6). I don't quite grasp the question except in the context of the unfounded questions 4 and 5. God gave us logic and reason for everything. And if we ask Him and really want it, He will grant it.

Reference:
James 1:5
"If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you."

7). There is no one "true" denomination. Again, this is COMPLETELY about Jesus, not anything we do or feel. I go to a Baptist church, but I do not identify myself with non-Christians as a Baptist, Protestant, or even a Christian. I use the term Jesus Freak. This doesn't make me any less of a follower of Jesus. It's all about repentance and faith.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
MadCornishBiker
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7/6/2013 6:52:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
OK. If you've read any of my posts in other topics you already know that I am an agnostic or atheist. I don't want this to dissuade any informed Christian from answering my questions. I sincerely want to know the answers for my own sake. Like most atheists I have been down the Christian path before, so I have a basic knowledge of my religion's teachings.

If in fact my understandings of Christianity are wrong it would go a long way to reforming my world view. I don't want to know the answer to feel validated, I sincerely want to understand Christianity in it's entirety.

With that in mind here are some of my questions:

1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?
If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator? (In other words, is there Emotional Intelligence and how does that relate to Critical Thinking?)

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?

4)What exactly did we think we knew about before we came to this Earth? In other words, what knowledge did we have before we were sent to be educated?

5)What makes a person's soul less logical than another in the pre-existence? Were some souls given poor logic or poor information? For what purpose?

6) If we didn't ask for logic & reason out of our free will than isn't God exactly like Lucifer? He forced us to think rationally under the illusion that we chose to. Given the option between God's Plan and Lucifer's the choice to choose rationally was already made for us.


7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?
If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?



You may choose to answer any or all of these questions as you please.
I won't debate you on ethics or possibility. I just want logical explanations, rather than the typical "I don't know because I'm human. God knows why he did it because he is God."
If that's true than I don't want to worship an incomprehensible, unjustifiable, and irrational God. If I am going to worship it should be because he is worthy of it. It shouldn't be solely because he is powerful.

Thank You, and I look forward to receiving some answers.

1) no

3) God created us with spiritual need, I'm not sure that's the same thing.

4) we did not come to this earth. We were born on it. We have never been anywhere else.

5)as the Scripture assures this we do not have a soul. We are a soul. Due to inherited imperfection, we are only born as equals is that imperfection will allow.

6) God did not force is to think as anything,He created us with free will and trusted us to use it wisely.

7). There is and can be only one true Christianity. That is the one which teaches what Christ taught and the Apostles after him. Anything else is a lie. That does not mean taking the Bible absolutely literally word for word. It does however mean understanding what the Bible teaches, as well as what Christ and the Apostles taught from it.

It also means remembering that Christ lived and died the faithful Jew.

I hope that helps, if not, feel free to ask anything you want to.
MadCornishBiker
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7/6/2013 6:57:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

the simplest answer is that he gave us free will, which means we have a right to make up our own minds.

However, he has revealed himself to us in many ways, which prove his existence provided we are prepared to accept that evidence for what it is. If we wish to ignore it, or simply completely disregard it, that is up to us and God will not force us to do what we do not want to do.

God as Scripture tells us love a willing giver.
MadCornishBiker
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7/6/2013 6:58:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 3:51:16 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
OK. If you've read any of my posts in other topics you already know that I am an agnostic or atheist. I don't want this to dissuade any informed Christian from answering my questions. I sincerely want to know the answers for my own sake. Like most atheists I have been down the Christian path before, so I have a basic knowledge of my religion's teachings.

If in fact my understandings of Christianity are wrong it would go a long way to reforming my world view. I don't want to know the answer to feel validated, I sincerely want to understand Christianity in it's entirety.

With that in mind here are some of my questions:

1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?
If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator? (In other words, is there Emotional Intelligence and how does that relate to Critical Thinking?)

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?

4)What exactly did we think we knew about before we came to this Earth? In other words, what knowledge did we have before we were sent to be educated?

5)What makes a person's soul less logical than another in the pre-existence? Were some souls given poor logic or poor information? For what purpose?

6) If we didn't ask for logic & reason out of our free will than isn't God exactly like Lucifer? He forced us to think rationally under the illusion that we chose to. Given the option between God's Plan and Lucifer's the choice to choose rationally was already made for us.


7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?
If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?



You may choose to answer any or all of these questions as you please.
I won't debate you on ethics or possibility. I just want logical explanations, rather than the typical "I don't know because I'm human. God knows why he did it because he is God."
If that's true than I don't want to worship an incomprehensible, unjustifiable, and irrational God. If I am going to worship it should be because he is worthy of it. It shouldn't be solely because he is powerful.

Thank You, and I look forward to receiving some answers.

1. Yes your relationship with God most certainly can contain feelings lol He created them and knows how we operate, however no, that is just a small aspect there are a number of aspects that confirm a Christian life. Just consider how often Jesus refers to seed, harvest and fruits of the Spirit, the Christian life should be full of God's promises and fruits without a doubt and if they are not it's time to look deep within and evaluate ourselves. Read John 12:24-26, John 10:4,5, John 14:13-21, John 15:1-11, Galatians 6:4-9 for a few examples.
As for worship in my opinion it is a two way thing, it is ones expression of love and admiration and should most certainly involve feelings in the same way you have great feelings toward anyone that means anything to you. God is a Person not a thing lol and He created us as persons and capable of feelings and expressions and they are just parts of God and pieces of Himself he imparted to us.
The feelings a person may have towards God are just a reflection of the relationship, some may have strong and others may have very little so I would not consider it to be a "reliable" indicator for another person, but it should definitely be an aspect, it would be bizarre to believe otherwise. Just take a look at a small example of some of the fruits of the Spirit- love, joy, peace, goodness, meekness, temperance, gentleness lol all involve feeling and expression Philippians 4:6,7 Psalm 37:4,5

2. We don't have to explain our feelings to an atheist.

3. Well I would say an intrinsic bias towards Himself which could lead to the plan of salvation, however faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word Romans 10:12-17

4. I don't think we knew anything before this earth and if we did I don't remember lol.

5. N/A ?

6. You have some really different views than me lol this would take me too long, sorry.

7. I actually am nondenominational because I believe that we as believers should move in one accord and in one spirit, however I know that is a dream lol. I do believe that we are created very different from one another and someone like myself may not want to go to a southern Baptist church on Sunday morning but maybe you would. I do have some objections to a few denominations but I expect with certainty that there will be differences and I believe that it is unavoidable and needed. BUT as believers we are to love one another and not judge and realize that there are many variations of people and personalities, if we just simply do are part and obey scripture we cannot go wrong, it is out of our hands.

Surely Atheists are the very ones we should reveal the truth to? A healthy man does not need a Doctor.
matt.mcguire88
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7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?
matt.mcguire88
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7/6/2013 7:13:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 6:58:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:51:16 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 2:15:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
OK. If you've read any of my posts in other topics you already know that I am an agnostic or atheist. I don't want this to dissuade any informed Christian from answering my questions. I sincerely want to know the answers for my own sake. Like most atheists I have been down the Christian path before, so I have a basic knowledge of my religion's teachings.

If in fact my understandings of Christianity are wrong it would go a long way to reforming my world view. I don't want to know the answer to feel validated, I sincerely want to understand Christianity in it's entirety.

With that in mind here are some of my questions:

1)Does belief in Christianity boil down to belief in the feeling you receive whilst worshiping or reading about God & His Son?
If so, why is that feeling objectively a reliable or valuable indicator? (In other words, is there Emotional Intelligence and how does that relate to Critical Thinking?)

2)If so, how can we explain conflicting emotion over particular Christian beliefs by an atheist?

3)If God gave us Logic & Reason then didn't He create us with intrinsic bias towards the Plan of Salvation?

4)What exactly did we think we knew about before we came to this Earth? In other words, what knowledge did we have before we were sent to be educated?

5)What makes a person's soul less logical than another in the pre-existence? Were some souls given poor logic or poor information? For what purpose?

6) If we didn't ask for logic & reason out of our free will than isn't God exactly like Lucifer? He forced us to think rationally under the illusion that we chose to. Given the option between God's Plan and Lucifer's the choice to choose rationally was already made for us.


7)Is there only one true Christian denomination?
If so, wouldn't it be fundamentalist Christianity?



You may choose to answer any or all of these questions as you please.
I won't debate you on ethics or possibility. I just want logical explanations, rather than the typical "I don't know because I'm human. God knows why he did it because he is God."
If that's true than I don't want to worship an incomprehensible, unjustifiable, and irrational God. If I am going to worship it should be because he is worthy of it. It shouldn't be solely because he is powerful.

Thank You, and I look forward to receiving some answers.

1. Yes your relationship with God most certainly can contain feelings lol He created them and knows how we operate, however no, that is just a small aspect there are a number of aspects that confirm a Christian life. Just consider how often Jesus refers to seed, harvest and fruits of the Spirit, the Christian life should be full of God's promises and fruits without a doubt and if they are not it's time to look deep within and evaluate ourselves. Read John 12:24-26, John 10:4,5, John 14:13-21, John 15:1-11, Galatians 6:4-9 for a few examples.
As for worship in my opinion it is a two way thing, it is ones expression of love and admiration and should most certainly involve feelings in the same way you have great feelings toward anyone that means anything to you. God is a Person not a thing lol and He created us as persons and capable of feelings and expressions and they are just parts of God and pieces of Himself he imparted to us.
The feelings a person may have towards God are just a reflection of the relationship, some may have strong and others may have very little so I would not consider it to be a "reliable" indicator for another person, but it should definitely be an aspect, it would be bizarre to believe otherwise. Just take a look at a small example of some of the fruits of the Spirit- love, joy, peace, goodness, meekness, temperance, gentleness lol all involve feeling and expression Philippians 4:6,7 Psalm 37:4,5

2. We don't have to explain our feelings to an atheist.

3. Well I would say an intrinsic bias towards Himself which could lead to the plan of salvation, however faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word Romans 10:12-17

4. I don't think we knew anything before this earth and if we did I don't remember lol.

5. N/A ?

6. You have some really different views than me lol this would take me too long, sorry.

7. I actually am nondenominational because I believe that we as believers should move in one accord and in one spirit, however I know that is a dream lol. I do believe that we are created very different from one another and someone like myself may not want to go to a southern Baptist church on Sunday morning but maybe you would. I do have some objections to a few denominations but I expect with certainty that there will be differences and I believe that it is unavoidable and needed. BUT as believers we are to love one another and not judge and realize that there are many variations of people and personalities, if we just simply do are part and obey scripture we cannot go wrong, it is out of our hands.

Surely Atheists are the very ones we should reveal the truth to? A healthy man does not need a Doctor.

Yes you misunderstood what I meant, that's why I come on here in the first place lol.
Composer
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7/6/2013 9:00:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
. . . . I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?
Incorrect!

You do oppose scripture!

You ' falsely claim ' you are not those things, so start by legitimately explain why you continually Freely choose to remain a disobedient & malignant Sinner?

Your mentor moi!
tkubok
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7/7/2013 4:51:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?

No, i didnt reject the scripture. I didnt reject anything. The problem here is that you never answered my question to begin with. I already konw that God has not revealed himself to us in a way that we all know that he exists. Clearly that is the case. Your answer wasnt wrong because it came from scripture, it was wrong because it was essentially a "Its like that because its like that." Thats not an answer.
tkubok
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7/7/2013 4:54:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 6:57:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

the simplest answer is that he gave us free will, which means we have a right to make up our own minds.

However, he has revealed himself to us in many ways, which prove his existence provided we are prepared to accept that evidence for what it is. If we wish to ignore it, or simply completely disregard it, that is up to us and God will not force us to do what we do not want to do.

God as Scripture tells us love a willing giver.

No no, for example, the existance of an apple is clearly visible and undestood by all, yet its clear existance doesnt violate our free will. We know, and have clear evidence and examples of many things. What exactly does the existance and knowledge that an apple exists, violate, in regards to our free will and choice?
matt.mcguire88
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7/7/2013 6:35:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 4:51:34 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?

No, i didnt reject the scripture. I didnt reject anything. The problem here is that you never answered my question to begin with. I already konw that God has not revealed himself to us in a way that we all know that he exists. Clearly that is the case. Your answer wasnt wrong because it came from scripture, it was wrong because it was essentially a "Its like that because its like that." Thats not an answer.

Yeah but you never answered my question, what more could you ask for, did you read that scripture?
If you want an answer from a Christian then you already know our source. However I personally would never answer your question without knowing it to be true, I guess that's a downfall on here is that you do not know me personally. Would you like me to give you an explanation outside of what God has instructed?

I would be more than happy to engage with you as long as it takes but first I want you to read that passage and ACKNOWLEDGE it and we could go from there, there is a foundation that must be laid.
matt.mcguire88
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7/7/2013 6:41:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 4:51:34 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?

No, i didnt reject the scripture. I didnt reject anything. The problem here is that you never answered my question to begin with. I already konw that God has not revealed himself to us in a way that we all know that he exists. Clearly that is the case. Your answer wasnt wrong because it came from scripture, it was wrong because it was essentially a "Its like that because its like that." Thats not an answer.

And that was NOT my answer BTW, my point was that God has given us a foundation and a platform to stand on. Would you prefer a shaky foundation or one that is built upon a rock?
matt.mcguire88
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7/7/2013 9:32:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 4:51:34 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?

No, i didnt reject the scripture. I didnt reject anything. The problem here is that you never answered my question to begin with. I already konw that God has not revealed himself to us in a way that we all know that he exists. Clearly that is the case. Your answer wasnt wrong because it came from scripture, it was wrong because it was essentially a "Its like that because its like that." Thats not an answer.

My answer is this, I understand what you are asking, but what I wanted to get at is that God does want us to know lol and that has been provided for us, but you won't find it in a science book or the news channel. In my opinion I don't think that God is interested in being a public spectacle for everyone to examine like some sort of science project but rather reveals to those who would love Him in return. I just wanted to show you there is provision and there are answers to our questions within the scripture and it reveals the truth in all aspects.
God is not looking for a popularity vote or to please the masses. All that God provides is available at your finger tips and is within you.
leonardlewis4
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7/7/2013 10:40:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

God has revealed Himself to everyone in many ways... "Unbelievers" actively suppress their intrinsic knowledge of God and they ignore even His general revelation (through nature) because they love their sin. To acknowledge the One True Living God would be to acknowledge their sin and its penalty. There are varying degrees of this, of course... For instance, some people claim atheism, some agnosticism, and some simply create (imagine) a god of their own design.

Your question ultimately assumes that there is some certain, definitive kind of evidence that would convince all unbelievers without fail... However, it wouldn't matter what evidence He presented or in what form... God haters would jump through hoops to deny His existence anyway.
tkubok
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7/7/2013 11:15:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 6:41:21 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/7/2013 4:51:34 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?

No, i didnt reject the scripture. I didnt reject anything. The problem here is that you never answered my question to begin with. I already konw that God has not revealed himself to us in a way that we all know that he exists. Clearly that is the case. Your answer wasnt wrong because it came from scripture, it was wrong because it was essentially a "Its like that because its like that." Thats not an answer.

And that was NOT my answer BTW, my point was that God has given us a foundation and a platform to stand on. Would you prefer a shaky foundation or one that is built upon a rock?

So youre admitting that you didnt answer me. So why did you find it funny that i asked you a question and wasnt satisfied with a non-answer from scripture? Dont you think i am justified in not being satisfied with my question going unanswered?
tkubok
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7/7/2013 11:26:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 9:32:12 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/7/2013 4:51:34 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?

No, i didnt reject the scripture. I didnt reject anything. The problem here is that you never answered my question to begin with. I already konw that God has not revealed himself to us in a way that we all know that he exists. Clearly that is the case. Your answer wasnt wrong because it came from scripture, it was wrong because it was essentially a "Its like that because its like that." Thats not an answer.

My answer is this, I understand what you are asking, but what I wanted to get at is that God does want us to know lol and that has been provided for us, but you won't find it in a science book or the news channel. In my opinion I don't think that God is interested in being a public spectacle for everyone to examine like some sort of science project but rather reveals to those who would love Him in return. I just wanted to show you there is provision and there are answers to our questions within the scripture and it reveals the truth in all aspects.
God is not looking for a popularity vote or to please the masses. All that God provides is available at your finger tips and is within you.

But how can you love something that you do not believe exists? I cannot love, hate or follow something that i dont believe exists.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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7/7/2013 11:42:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 11:15:00 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/7/2013 6:41:21 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/7/2013 4:51:34 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?

No, i didnt reject the scripture. I didnt reject anything. The problem here is that you never answered my question to begin with. I already konw that God has not revealed himself to us in a way that we all know that he exists. Clearly that is the case. Your answer wasnt wrong because it came from scripture, it was wrong because it was essentially a "Its like that because its like that." Thats not an answer.

And that was NOT my answer BTW, my point was that God has given us a foundation and a platform to stand on. Would you prefer a shaky foundation or one that is built upon a rock?

So youre admitting that you didnt answer me. So why did you find it funny that i asked you a question and wasnt satisfied with a non-answer from scripture? Dont you think i am justified in not being satisfied with my question going unanswered?

No, what I meant is that is was not my intention to say "that's just the way it is" as you say. I wanted to clearly answer you.
matt.mcguire88
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7/7/2013 11:55:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 11:26:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/7/2013 9:32:12 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/7/2013 4:51:34 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:03:29 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 3:00:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/5/2013 4:03:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/5/2013 3:37:25 PM, tkubok wrote:
Can any christian answer why God wouldnt want to reveal himself to everyone in a way that is understand and acknolwedged by all that he exists?

We HAVE to go to what is made available to us, that is just how God works and is something that we have to learn and accept, and when you do you will see that God knows what He's doing. When we go through the doors and openings God instructs then He reveals. It IS a way that you may understand and acknowledge, the question is, is WILL you acknowledge and WILL you understand and be taught? The Word of God may be applied and understood
1 Corinthians 2:10-12, 14

So your answer is "Thats just how it is". Thats not really an explanation. I didnt ask for what the status quo is, thats something i already know. I asked why, what possible reason could there be. Or are you just blindly following God like a robot?

Well that is quite funny, you ask a Christian a question and reject the scripture lol, that's what I'm talking about. I do not blindly follow anyone, God has earned His place in my life I do not have time or reason to be a robot. What reason could I give that is contrary to scripture? I do not just quote plain verses from scripture that mean nothing to me, rather I quote scripture which I have learned and experienced, what else could you ask for?

No, i didnt reject the scripture. I didnt reject anything. The problem here is that you never answered my question to begin with. I already konw that God has not revealed himself to us in a way that we all know that he exists. Clearly that is the case. Your answer wasnt wrong because it came from scripture, it was wrong because it was essentially a "Its like that because its like that." Thats not an answer.

My answer is this, I understand what you are asking, but what I wanted to get at is that God does want us to know lol and that has been provided for us, but you won't find it in a science book or the news channel. In my opinion I don't think that God is interested in being a public spectacle for everyone to examine like some sort of science project but rather reveals to those who would love Him in return. I just wanted to show you there is provision and there are answers to our questions within the scripture and it reveals the truth in all aspects.
God is not looking for a popularity vote or to please the masses. All that God provides is available at your finger tips and is within you.

But how can you love something that you do not believe exists? I cannot love, hate or follow something that i dont believe exists.

First things first, of course you cannot love something you don't believe in. I'm not trying to get you to love God, I'm trying to get you to come to God and understand how the relationship works. If it is not something that you are interested in I guess I can't change that, but I'm just trying to answer you question.