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How did you come to believe _______?

justin.graves
Posts: 220
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7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/6/2013 9:48:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

I know that it was probably more geared towards your fellow theists, but:

I was raised Catholic, with a sort of presumption that I would believe in God. Everything sort of fell apart for me when I actually asked at a young age why the presumption was that God (and specifically the Catholic God) existed.

I looked, and I read Aquinas under the impression that he was going to outline sound reasons for belief...and was disappointed. So my not-even-double-digit self said "If I don't know it's true, it seems dumb to assume it's true". Learned about agnostic and privately considered myself that for many years without really looking into it at all...made it easier to deal with my parents, since if they found out I claimed agnosticism, their grasp of the philosophical terms didn't mean it would be an issue ("Oh, so you question whether it's true...but you still believe of course" "Uhhh...sure?".).

When I got older I decided to look into even THAT, to decide my opinion and the philosophy of the matter. It took me awhile to get the distinction between what a/gnostic addressed and what a/theism addressed, and figure out where I fit on the spectrum as I understand it.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/6/2013 10:16:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

-Believe in God: Common sense.

-Islam, Although I was raised in a Muslim country anyway, still I don't consider myself a Muslim by inheritance but by conviction.

Teenage was the period of search and reading, I did leave some group of Islam till I found the right group.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
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7/6/2013 10:17:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 9:48:49 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

I know that it was probably more geared towards your fellow theists, but:

I was raised Catholic, with a sort of presumption that I would believe in God. Everything sort of fell apart for me when I actually asked at a young age why the presumption was that God (and specifically the Catholic God) existed.

I looked, and I read Aquinas under the impression that he was going to outline sound reasons for belief...and was disappointed. So my not-even-double-digit self said "If I don't know it's true, it seems dumb to assume it's true". Learned about agnostic and privately considered myself that for many years without really looking into it at all...made it easier to deal with my parents, since if they found out I claimed agnosticism, their grasp of the philosophical terms didn't mean it would be an issue ("Oh, so you question whether it's true...but you still believe of course" "Uhhh...sure?".).

When I got older I decided to look into even THAT, to decide my opinion and the philosophy of the matter. It took me awhile to get the distinction between what a/gnostic addressed and what a/theism addressed, and figure out where I fit on the spectrum as I understand it.

bladerunner060 Good to meet you..
I point out... God has only one son.. His name is Jesus!
You are NOT a child of God if you are not found in the body of Jesus!.. It is just this simple!
Jesus is in heaven, thus all of those IMMERSED into the body of Jesus, God' only Son, will also enter heaven!

Baptism immerses people into the Body of Jesus.. You were immersed into Jesus' holy Body as an Infant!!
bladerunner060 LOOK... Peter "ADDED" 3000 people to Jesus' body the first day of Pentecost!
Acts 2:40
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

I point you to.. John 6...
53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

bladerunner060 DO YOU SEE IT??? Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them

Baptism IMMERSES people into the Risen Body of Jesus.. Communion KEEPS YOU IN HIS BODY!!!
bladerunner060 You very well might have been ADDED to Jesus' risen body.. BUT..
bladerunner060 but you have long long ago STARVED TO DEATH!!!

If Moses did not eat the manna, he would have died in forty days, never mind living for forty YEARS eating manna from heaven! Moses' manna was NOT SYMBOLIC FOOD!!!

Jesus is the REAL MANNA come down so it CANNOT be symbolic but real food!
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/6/2013 10:18:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

Yes, I read bits of it, but if I were you I would be very wary. Satan is just as capable of doing good if it draws people away from God as he is of doing evil. Whatever works in other words.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
ASV(i) 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light. 15 It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

In my case it was a combination of logic, strange circumstances and and holy spirit.

I say holy spirit because there is no other way anyone can come to a knowledge the truth, that is what is used to sift us because of our reaction to scripture.

I was brought up in a CoE household and attended a Baptist Sunday School

As a child I used to read my mother's NT, at first more for something else than any other reason.

The more I read it, the more I realised that there really was something there, and I started praying to God that I would be allowed to find His people and serve Him the way He wanted to be served.

It very quickly became obvious to me that:

A) there was no way that the major faiths could be the true one, there were simply to many of them, and Christ made it very clear that his true followers would be very much in the minority.

and

B) the trinity simply didn't fit in with the tenor of the NT at all.

So I set about my search, and looked at faith after faith, but rejected them all. Not hard in most cases.

Eventually I gave up my search in despair, I guess that was partly because I was carefully avoiding one particular group. JWs

One day, in what was, I'll warrant, the most unlikely circumstances you could imagine, someone gave a JW tract and challenged me to read ti. So I took it home, lay down on the floor,(just as well as it turned out) and read it.

By this time I didn't even have a bible, but when I read that tract with the JW beliefs in one column and the scriptures they came from, only one thought went through my mind "Oh no! Not them! Please!"

I knew instantly what I had found. As Paul said in different circumstances, holy spirit bore witness with my spirit, and there was no room for doubt in my mind.

I say absolutely no room for doubt, but that simply wouldn't have been me. As convinced as I was I simply didn't want it to be them. Well, after all, who does?

I agonised over it for about 4 years before I eventually decided that I really did need to find out for myself, so I walked into a Kingdom Hall, and despite it being Saturday found some Brothers and Sisters there cleaning it. I asked for a Bible Study, and when the young sister I asked recovered from the shock she fetched an elder and it was arranged.

My first meeting was a combination Theocratic Ministry school / Service Meeting and as chance would have it I chose to go on the evening they held, in the school, what was then known as the "Written Review" where we were all given a list of questions to answer based on what had been taught through the previous month.

My study conductor was apologetic about the timing, but also shocked when I said I wanted to have a go. I did, and got all but one question "right". More in fact than he did, lol.

However despite being sure I was getting holy spirit I was not unaware of 1 John 4:1 which in the NWT reads, appropriately, "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world."

That meant that I had to be 100% sure that I really was not just getting spiritual help, but the right spiritual help, from, the right source.

I bought Hebrew/English bibles and checked to see teh tetragrammaton really was where the NWT said. I bought interlinears to ensure that John 1:1 really was as the NWT rendered it, I even bought a Hebrew / English New Testament (Matthew was originally written in Hebrew) to see if it appeared in his writing, and it did. Proof at least that Christ really did make his Father's name known to Matthew. I scoured the second hand bookshops for different translations to compare. There was absolutely no way I could fault what they were teaching me. Though admittedly I already believed much of it, but my research just sounded that even further into my heart.

I was out of work at the time so I had plenty of free time in which to do my research.

I got baptised and thus began an happy, but turbulent time. I mad e my mistakes, plenty of them and am currently disfellowshipped. My problem not theirs, they did everything literally by the book.

Despite everything I have never once lost my faith, if anything it has grown even stronger and I am now looking at the possibility of being re-instated in time.

Sorry I can't tell you what those unusual circumstances I got the tract in were, suffice it to say I doubt you could imagine them, I couldn't have, ever.

So that's my story.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
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7/6/2013 10:32:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
MadCornishBiker
Your words.. I say holy spirit because there is no other way anyone can come to a knowledge the truth, that is what is used to sift us because of our reaction to scripture.

1 John 4:1
[ On Denying the Incarnation ] Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

MadCornishBiker I simple TEST would be, DO YOU REJECT THE SCRIPTURES!!?
Clearly the SPIRIT leading you is NOT "HOLY"!

Do you REJECT the words of the EARLY CHURCH CHRISTIANS?! More proof, you are NOT lead by the HOLY spirit!

Do you accept the TEACHINGS of MEN overriding rejecting the words of GOD??
Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Clearly the spirit you place the salvation of your soul in, IS NOT the HOLY Spirit!
You reject the truth for LIES!

Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY CHURCH he formed.. You say; "NOPE Jesus lied"! You say.."Satan somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan took Jesus' body from Jesus"!

Matthew 28 "...And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY CHURCH He established!!! LOGIC ALONE SAYS: Thus he is cannot be with yours!!
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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7/6/2013 10:38:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hey mad and others, do you know that satan wrote the moste widely distributed book in the history of humanity? It's called the bible. He's a very cunning devil as you apparently profess, don't be fooled.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
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7/6/2013 10:45:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 10:38:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey mad and others, do you know that satan wrote the moste widely distributed book in the history of humanity? It's called the bible. He's a very cunning devil as you apparently profess, don't be fooled.
YUP the NWT you are correct!
Chase200mph
Posts: 332
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7/6/2013 10:50:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

Like every other religious person on the planet, I was lied to by those that would never conceive of lying to me on purpose. Like child abuse, it is passed down from one generation to the next. Ironically no god ever appears to a non believer who has never heard of this god and says follow me. This is the shame and story of all gods....
While an otherwise educated intelligent person may still believe in the bible, that person would have no educated or intellectual reason to do so.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/6/2013 11:05:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 10:32:49 AM, Dogknox wrote:
MadCornishBiker
Your words.. I say holy spirit because there is no other way anyone can come to a knowledge the truth, that is what is used to sift us because of our reaction to scripture.

1 John 4:1
[ On Denying the Incarnation ] Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

MadCornishBiker I simple TEST would be, DO YOU REJECT THE SCRIPTURES!!?
Clearly the SPIRIT leading you is NOT "HOLY"!

Do you REJECT the words of the EARLY CHURCH CHRISTIANS?! More proof, you are NOT lead by the HOLY spirit!

Do you accept the TEACHINGS of MEN overriding rejecting the words of GOD??
Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Clearly the spirit you place the salvation of your soul in, IS NOT the HOLY Spirit!
You reject the truth for LIES!

Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY CHURCH he formed.. You say; "NOPE Jesus lied"! You say.."Satan somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan took Jesus' body from Jesus"!

Matthew 28 "...And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY CHURCH He established!!! LOGIC ALONE SAYS: Thus he is cannot be with yours!!

On the contrary, it is most definitely.

Since Jesus didn't establish your church, there is no way he is with you.

In fact the JWs were indeed established by Jesus on his Heavenly throne pulling the few who wished to be faithful out of Apostate Christianity, of which Catholicism is the primary part. He did so in basically the same way he pulled the few faithful Jews out into a new organisation.

If I were you I would test the spirit that may be with you a little more carefully. It obviously is not the right one, if you have any at all.

You don't even know the true history of your own church, lol, and all your bluster will not change one single fact.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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7/6/2013 11:10:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 10:45:31 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 7/6/2013 10:38:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey mad and others, do you know that satan wrote the moste widely distributed book in the history of humanity? It's called the bible. He's a very cunning devil as you apparently profess, don't be fooled.
YUP the NWT you are correct!
What? The nwt is more widely distributed than any other version? I think you bear false witness as do your opponents.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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7/6/2013 11:34:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 9:48:49 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

I know that it was probably more geared towards your fellow theists, but:

I was raised Catholic, with a sort of presumption that I would believe in God. Everything sort of fell apart for me when I actually asked at a young age why the presumption was that God (and specifically the Catholic God) existed.

I looked, and I read Aquinas under the impression that he was going to outline sound reasons for belief...and was disappointed. So my not-even-double-digit self said "If I don't know it's true, it seems dumb to assume it's true". Learned about agnostic and privately considered myself that for many years without really looking into it at all...made it easier to deal with my parents, since if they found out I claimed agnosticism, their grasp of the philosophical terms didn't mean it would be an issue ("Oh, so you question whether it's true...but you still believe of course" "Uhhh...sure?".).

When I got older I decided to look into even THAT, to decide my opinion and the philosophy of the matter. It took me awhile to get the distinction between what a/gnostic addressed and what a/theism addressed, and figure out where I fit on the spectrum as I understand it.

Cool story, bro.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
PureX
Posts: 1,515
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7/6/2013 12:21:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

Trauma, basically.

It was the trauma of hitting bottom with an addiction. Of suddenly having everything I thought I knew to be true exposed as being nothing more than my own addictive bullshif. And then having to face all the damage I'd done as a result of years of living a self-generated pack of lies.

I and my ego were finally broken. And I was made humble whether I liked it or not. And believe me, I didn't like it. It really, really sucked. And it really, really hurt. For a long time.

But there was a group of people who had been through what I was going through, and even though they were complete strangers, they helped me in every way they could. And so I was eventually able to rebuild myself, and my life, with their help.

It was in this way that I came to understand what the term "Christ" means: God's love acting in and through us to heal us and save us from ourselves, and to help us heal and save each other.

I am also a philosophical taoist, in that I no longer seek to make life conform to my own will/desire, but instead, surrender to the tao: to the flow of being that forms and nourishes all things.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/6/2013 12:28:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 11:10:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/6/2013 10:45:31 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 7/6/2013 10:38:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey mad and others, do you know that satan wrote the moste widely distributed book in the history of humanity? It's called the bible. He's a very cunning devil as you apparently profess, don't be fooled.
YUP the NWT you are correct!
What? The nwt is more widely distributed than any other version? I think you bear false witness as do your opponents.

I wouldn't know if it is more widely distributed than any other, but it is certainly widely distributed. You only have to think about how it is distributed, free of cost, and by an active evangelising oprganisation, plus it is available online to study online in both "standard" and Reference Editions, and also for free download download in .epub, .pdf, .mp3 and .aac format,and an awful lot of languages.

Geographically it is definitely the most widely distributed if not in volume. There is not country you can't get it in, including the ones in which it is banned.
SovereignDream
Posts: 1,119
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7/6/2013 12:47:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 9:48:49 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

I know that it was probably more geared towards your fellow theists, but:

I was raised Catholic, with a sort of presumption that I would believe in God. Everything sort of fell apart for me when I actually asked at a young age why the presumption was that God (and specifically the Catholic God) existed.

I looked, and I read Aquinas under the impression that he was going to outline sound reasons for belief...and was disappointed. So my not-even-double-digit self said "If I don't know it's true, it seems dumb to assume it's true". Learned about agnostic and privately considered myself that for many years without really looking into it at all...made it easier to deal with my parents, since if they found out I claimed agnosticism, their grasp of the philosophical terms didn't mean it would be an issue ("Oh, so you question whether it's true...but you still believe of course" "Uhhh...sure?".).

No offense, but methinks that reading Aquinas under the age of 10 is generally not a good idea. His philosophical thought requires careful conceptual distinctions which I doubt those under 10 are equipped to grasp. Aquinas is a veritable philosophical giant. If you were to fully grasp his thought, I doubt you'd remain an atheist/agnostic.


When I got older I decided to look into even THAT, to decide my opinion and the philosophy of the matter. It took me awhile to get the distinction between what a/gnostic addressed and what a/theism addressed, and figure out where I fit on the spectrum as I understand it.
SovereignDream
Posts: 1,119
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7/6/2013 12:49:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 11:20:37 AM, drafterman wrote:
I was born an atheist and have yet to be exposed to a convincing argument for any kind of theism.

What about the Argument from the Drafting of Men?
Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
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7/6/2013 12:53:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The circumstance was this. I was forced into believing Christianity at a very early age, and punished for daring to say anything against it. After a few years of being force fed religion I began to realise how much I hated it and thus became an atheist, I also lived a very solitary existence and experienced a lot of loss, causing nihilism to take its place with my beliefs. I then developed my full depressing philosophy as you know it now.
Turn around, go back.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/6/2013 12:57:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 10:38:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey mad and others, do you know that satan wrote the moste widely distributed book in the history of humanity? It's called the bible. He's a very cunning devil as you apparently profess, don't be fooled.

Oh I have no intention of being fooled, though apparently you have if you believe that Satan wrote the bible. influenced it's translation, yes, wrote it, no.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/6/2013 12:59:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 12:47:58 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 7/6/2013 9:48:49 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

I know that it was probably more geared towards your fellow theists, but:

I was raised Catholic, with a sort of presumption that I would believe in God. Everything sort of fell apart for me when I actually asked at a young age why the presumption was that God (and specifically the Catholic God) existed.

I looked, and I read Aquinas under the impression that he was going to outline sound reasons for belief...and was disappointed. So my not-even-double-digit self said "If I don't know it's true, it seems dumb to assume it's true". Learned about agnostic and privately considered myself that for many years without really looking into it at all...made it easier to deal with my parents, since if they found out I claimed agnosticism, their grasp of the philosophical terms didn't mean it would be an issue ("Oh, so you question whether it's true...but you still believe of course" "Uhhh...sure?".).

No offense, but methinks that reading Aquinas under the age of 10 is generally not a good idea. His philosophical thought requires careful conceptual distinctions which I doubt those under 10 are equipped to grasp. Aquinas is a veritable philosophical giant. If you were to fully grasp his thought, I doubt you'd remain an atheist/agnostic.


When I got older I decided to look into even THAT, to decide my opinion and the philosophy of the matter. It took me awhile to get the distinction between what a/gnostic addressed and what a/theism addressed, and figure out where I fit on the spectrum as I understand it.

I am not convinced it is a good idea at any age. He is after all a teacher of Apostasys.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/6/2013 1:00:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 10:16:06 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

-Believe in God: Common sense.

Common sense supports Atheism.


-Islam, Although I was raised in a Muslim country anyway, still I don't consider myself a Muslim by inheritance but by conviction.

Teenage was the period of search and reading, I did leave some group of Islam till I found the right group.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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7/6/2013 1:03:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't believe in leprechauns, I've felt similarly about gods for most of my life.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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7/6/2013 1:04:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 10:16:06 AM, Fruitytree wrote:

-Believe in God: Common sense.

Common sense may or may not lead to gods, but why would it lead to the Islamic god?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
SovereignDream
Posts: 1,119
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7/6/2013 1:14:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 1:03:36 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
I don't believe in leprechauns, I've felt similarly about gods for most of my life.

Yes, because the existence of smaller-than-average, red-haired humans is analogous to the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being who created the universe.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/6/2013 1:20:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 1:00:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 10:16:06 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

-Believe in God: Common sense.

Common sense supports Atheism.


-Islam, Although I was raised in a Muslim country anyway, still I don't consider myself a Muslim by inheritance but by conviction.

Teenage was the period of search and reading, I did leave some group of Islam till I found the right group.

On the contrary, Atheism denies the abundance of evidence in the design of creation all around us.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/6/2013 1:25:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 1:14:39 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 7/6/2013 1:03:36 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
I don't believe in leprechauns, I've felt similarly about gods for most of my life.

Yes, because the existence of smaller-than-average, red-haired humans is analogous to the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being who created the universe.

You are right. Leprechauns are much more likely.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/6/2013 1:26:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 1:20:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/6/2013 1:00:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 10:16:06 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/6/2013 9:31:57 AM, justin.graves wrote:
I recently posted my testimony of how I became a Christian on this forum. I got curious then... how did all you come to your beliefs? Was it

Loss?
Science?
Pain?
Logic?
Something else?

What circumstances led you to believes in philosophy/religion X?

-Believe in God: Common sense.

Common sense supports Atheism.


-Islam, Although I was raised in a Muslim country anyway, still I don't consider myself a Muslim by inheritance but by conviction.

Teenage was the period of search and reading, I did leave some group of Islam till I found the right group.

On the contrary, Atheism denies the abundance of evidence in the design of creation all around us.

There is no evidence of design, just theists connecting dots where there are none.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/6/2013 1:46:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 1:27:49 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists are like 911 truthers, they think they have evidence but it can all easily be explained and debunked.

The evidence of design in the creation around us can't. Simple as. It can be ignored, and often is, but it cannot be disproved.

Nor can the fact that the bible is prophetically and historically accurate, for whihc there is much, tangible, evidence in places like the British Museum. That too is often denied and ignored but cannot be disproved.

Deny or ignore it all at your peril.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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7/6/2013 2:04:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 1:14:39 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 7/6/2013 1:03:36 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
I don't believe in leprechauns, I've felt similarly about gods for most of my life.

Yes, because the existence of smaller-than-average, red-haired humans is analogous to the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being who created the universe.

For most of my life I've held the same regard for god(s) and leprechauns. The god(s) I don't believe in vary far more dramatically than an "omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being who created the universe". Especially if you're referring to one which has its nature elaborated on by religious scriptures.
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