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What is holy spirit?

MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 10:48:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
yes what really is holy spirit?

There is much controversy over what holy spirit really is and few scriptural clues.

Even The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296.

so how do we decide?

In Scripture holy spirit is often spoken of as a helper, a comforter or other similar terms are used. But does that mean holy spirit is a person?

In fact, it does not necessarily mean that. Wisdom is also personified, as are other non-scented attributes.

Nowhere in Scripture is holy spirit given a name.

Also, interestingly enough, blasphemy against holy spirit is classed as the one unforgivable sin. Scripture tells us that whilst blasphemy against the son of God may be forgiven, blasphemy against the holy spirit will not.

Mark 3:28, 29
28 Truly I say to YOU that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins and blasphemies they blasphemously commit. 29 However, whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting sin."

so, all blasphemy is will be forgiven to men except blasphemy against holy spirit.

That makes holy spirit a very special thing indeed, in that sense more special, even than God himself.

I believe that is because if you do not truly believe in what holy spirit is then your faith lacks a solid grounding. Since holy spirit appears to be the force God uses to carry out all his work, including the resurrection that is to come.

To me, that means that no matter how strong your faith, you are in effect proving faults to its power. Because you do not believe in the power that God and Christ used to carry out everything.

2 Timothy 3:1-5
3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion*+ but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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7/10/2013 11:26:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 10:48:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
yes what really is holy spirit?

There is much controversy over what holy spirit really is and few scriptural clues.

Even The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296.

If you're going to quote the New Catholic Encyclopedia, at least try to be honest with it.

Also from the New Catholic Encyclopedia:

'The statement in Acts 15.28, "the Holy Spirit and we have decided," alone seems to imply full personality. However, the Trinitarian formulas employed by St. Paul (e.g., 2 Cor 13.13), indicate a real personality.So clearly does St. John see in the Spirit a person who takes Christ's place in the Church, that he uses a masculine pronoun (Greek) in reference to the Spirit even though [spirit] is neuter in gender ( 16.8, 13-16). Consequently, it is evident that St. John thought of the Holy Spirit as a Person, who is distinct from the Father and the Son, and who, with the glorified Son and the Father, is present and active in the faithful.'
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/10/2013 11:28:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What about an Angel ? not any, but still an angel.

Holly spirit, is a translation of the arabic "Ruh al Qudus"
or Hebrew "Ruach HaKodesh" that literally would be: the spirit of the Holy, so the Holy is God (or YHWH if you prefer) and the Spirit is God property or attribute.

This Holy spirit, as translated in English (bible and Quran); is what God used to lead his chosen people.

A lot of Muslims believe the Holy spirit to be the Angel Gabriel, but let me search a little if there is a scripture in Islam that clearly says that it is he.
Naysayer
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7/10/2013 11:31:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Holy Spirit IS God, not more special than God.

The Holy Spirit is referenced as "He" on several occasions.

The Holy Spirit can be grieved. You can't grieve an object, only a person.

The Holy Spirit is the mind of Christ. It dwells within us. It also prays for us to God. Sounds very personish to me.

I understand the trinity is confusing, but it's existence is spoken about in no uncertain terms if you accept the Bible aat face value. How can three persons be one? I don't know. But they are. (I John 5:7)
MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 12:05:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 11:26:38 AM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
At 7/10/2013 10:48:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
yes what really is holy spirit?

There is much controversy over what holy spirit really is and few scriptural clues.

Even The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296.

If you're going to quote the New Catholic Encyclopedia, at least try to be honest with it.

Also from the New Catholic Encyclopedia:

'The statement in Acts 15.28, "the Holy Spirit and we have decided," alone seems to imply full personality. However, the Trinitarian formulas employed by St. Paul (e.g., 2 Cor 13.13), indicate a real personality.So clearly does St. John see in the Spirit a person who takes Christ's place in the Church, that he uses a masculine pronoun (Greek) in reference to the Spirit even though [spirit] is neuter in gender ( 16.8, 13-16). Consequently, it is evident that St. John thought of the Holy Spirit as a Person, who is distinct from the Father and the Son, and who, with the glorified Son and the Father, is present and active in the faithful.'

I have to admit I hadn't seen the part from the NCE that you quote, but that doesn't make my quote either dishonest, or incorrect.

I have already admitted that Scripture does anthropomorphise holy spirit in places, no one would deny that, but as I also said it anthropomorphises other things as well, so that neither proves nor disproves anything.

The fact that people are baptised with holy spirit, not just in the name of, but in the case of the anointed with the heavenly hope actually baptised with holy spirit, does rather point to holy spirit being something which can either be divided, or spread amongst other people.

I certainly don't get the impression that either John, Paul, or know who wrote acts, felt that the holy spirit was a sentience being.

Of course, those who believe in the fictional Trinity, have to believe holy spirit is a person, just as they have to deny the scriptural fact, as shown by John amongst others, that the one who became Christ was a created being.

One can only support that thought by using a Miss translated version of John 1:1, which comparison of the interlinear and English-only columns of the Emphatic Diaglott clearly shows.

http://archive.org...

Only those who are prepared to ignore the evidence in order to stick with the doctrine created by man can possibly try to deny. Even then, they will fail because the evidence is clear.
MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 12:10:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 11:28:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
What about an Angel ? not any, but still an angel.

Holly spirit, is a translation of the arabic "Ruh al Qudus"
or Hebrew "Ruach HaKodesh" that literally would be: the spirit of the Holy, so the Holy is God (or YHWH if you prefer) and the Spirit is God property or attribute.

This Holy spirit, as translated in English (bible and Quran); is what God used to lead his chosen people.

A lot of Muslims believe the Holy spirit to be the Angel Gabriel, but let me search a little if there is a scripture in Islam that clearly says that it is he.

Nothing about that translation points to holy spirit is being a person, it's merely says that it is the spirit of the holy which actually fits in better with the idea of it being God's active force.

The angel Gabriel was named and there is nothing to say that he was holy spirit. True, he was a spirit, and almost certainly still is, but then so is God as well as Christ and all the angels.

To be honest, what Muslims believe is of no import to me, because they do not believe the truth of God and Christ, and that is all I'm interested in.
MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 12:12:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 11:29:29 AM, drafterman wrote:
Fiction.

Well it is certainly evidence that you have say in spirit as opposed to holy spirit, since that is the exact opposite of the action of God's spirit.

It is also the exact opposite of how Christ taught us to be, since he taught that we should love our enemy, you cannot love someone if you're wishing harm.

Fiction it most certainly ain't.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/10/2013 12:14:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:12:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 11:29:29 AM, drafterman wrote:
Fiction.

Well it is certainly evidence that you have say in spirit as opposed to holy spirit, since that is the exact opposite of the action of God's spirit.

It is also the exact opposite of how Christ taught us to be, since he taught that we should love our enemy, you cannot love someone if you're wishing harm.

Fiction it most certainly ain't.

My spirit animal says otherwise.
MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 12:16:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 11:31:52 AM, Naysayer wrote:
The Holy Spirit IS God, not more special than God.

The Holy Spirit is referenced as "He" on several occasions.

The Holy Spirit can be grieved. You can't grieve an object, only a person.

The Holy Spirit is the mind of Christ. It dwells within us. It also prays for us to God. Sounds very personish to me.

I understand the trinity is confusing, but it's existence is spoken about in no uncertain terms if you accept the Bible aat face value. How can three persons be one? I don't know. But they are. (I John 5:7)

yes I agree holy spirit is frequently referenced as he, but wisdom is also treated as if he is a person at Proverbs 8.

Speaking of something as a he does not make them a literal person.

From what you say, I assume that you are a believer in that worst of all fictions, the Trinity. That being the case, how do you explain the scripture I mentioned in my original post which says that blasphemy against the Sun will be forgiven, whereas blasphemy against holy spirit will not. That makes for a very unequal equal part of the Trinity. Which in itself makes a nonsense of the Trinity.
MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 12:17:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:14:44 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:12:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 11:29:29 AM, drafterman wrote:
Fiction.

Well it is certainly evidence that you have say in spirit as opposed to holy spirit, since that is the exact opposite of the action of God's spirit.

It is also the exact opposite of how Christ taught us to be, since he taught that we should love our enemy, you cannot love someone if you're wishing harm.

Fiction it most certainly ain't.

My spirit animal says otherwise.

That to indicates a form of satanic influence.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/10/2013 12:20:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:17:10 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:14:44 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:12:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 11:29:29 AM, drafterman wrote:
Fiction.

Well it is certainly evidence that you have say in spirit as opposed to holy spirit, since that is the exact opposite of the action of God's spirit.

It is also the exact opposite of how Christ taught us to be, since he taught that we should love our enemy, you cannot love someone if you're wishing harm.

Fiction it most certainly ain't.

My spirit animal says otherwise.

That to indicates a form of satanic influence.

I just asked him if he was Satan. He said no.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/10/2013 12:21:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I will put some verses that use the word "Holy spirit", or just "spirit" , for I didn't find a plain scripture that says Gabriel is the Holy spirit, although Gabriel is called spirit in some verses.

O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender. (171) Quran 4

Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the holy Spirit. And if Allah had so wiled it, those who followed after them would not have fought one with another after the clear proofs had come unto them. But they differed, some of them believing and some disbelieving. And if Allah had so willed it, they would not have fought one with another; but Allah doeth what He will. (253) Quran/2

Say: The holy Spirit hath revealed it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah). (102) Quran/16

On the day when the angels and the Spirit stand arrayed, they speak not, saving him whom the Beneficent alloweth and who speaketh right. (38) That is the True Day. So whoso will should seek recourse unto his Lord. (39) Quran/ 78

Well from the verses it seems the spirit, or Holy spirit can be Gabriel, but not necessarily.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/10/2013 12:23:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:20:28 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:17:10 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:14:44 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:12:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 11:29:29 AM, drafterman wrote:
Fiction.

Well it is certainly evidence that you have say in spirit as opposed to holy spirit, since that is the exact opposite of the action of God's spirit.

It is also the exact opposite of how Christ taught us to be, since he taught that we should love our enemy, you cannot love someone if you're wishing harm.

Fiction it most certainly ain't.

My spirit animal says otherwise.

That to indicates a form of satanic influence.

I just asked him if he was Satan. He said no.

Lo, he would.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/10/2013 12:25:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:21:41 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
I will put some verses that use the word "Holy spirit", or just "spirit" , for I didn't find a plain scripture that says Gabriel is the Holy spirit, although Gabriel is called spirit in some verses.

O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender. (171) Quran 4

Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the holy Spirit. And if Allah had so wiled it, those who followed after them would not have fought one with another after the clear proofs had come unto them. But they differed, some of them believing and some disbelieving. And if Allah had so willed it, they would not have fought one with another; but Allah doeth what He will. (253) Quran/2

Say: The holy Spirit hath revealed it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah). (102) Quran/16

On the day when the angels and the Spirit stand arrayed, they speak not, saving him whom the Beneficent alloweth and who speaketh right. (38) That is the True Day. So whoso will should seek recourse unto his Lord. (39) Quran/ 78

Well from the verses it seems the spirit, or Holy spirit can be Gabriel, but not necessarily.

Sorry, it simply doesn't work.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/10/2013 12:29:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:10:00 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
W
Nothing about that translation points to holy spirit is being a person, it's merely says that it is the spirit of the holy which actually fits in better with the idea of it being God's active force.

The angel Gabriel was named and there is nothing to say that he was holy spirit. True, he was a spirit, and almost certainly still is, but then so is God as well as Christ and all the angels.

To be honest, what Muslims believe is of no import to me, because they do not believe the truth of God and Christ, and that is all I'm interested in.

Whether the Holy spirit is Gabriel or not, he till is a person (like all spirits.What do you mean by truth of God and Christ ?!
Fruitytree
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7/10/2013 12:31:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:25:49 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Sorry, it simply doesn't work.

What doesn't work and why ?
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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7/10/2013 12:46:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:16:10 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
From what you say, I assume that you are a believer in that worst of all fictions, the Trinity. That being the case, how do you explain the scripture I mentioned in my original post which says that blasphemy against the Sun will be forgiven, whereas blasphemy against holy spirit will not. That makes for a very unequal equal part of the Trinity. Which in itself makes a nonsense of the Trinity.

If you can explain I John 5:7 without a trinity, I'd like to hear it.

By the way:

Mark 3:28-29
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

There's nothing in there that says you can blaspheme against the Son. If the two are one, you obviously cannot.
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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7/10/2013 12:47:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:05:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have to admit I hadn't seen the part from the NCE that you quote, but that doesn't make my quote either dishonest, or incorrect.

No, it is misleading but not necessarily intentionally. It was somewhat hasty of me to accuse you of dishonesty and for that I apologize.

I have already admitted that Scripture does anthropomorphise holy spirit in places, no one would deny that, but as I also said it anthropomorphises other things as well, so that neither proves nor disproves anything.

The fact that people are baptised with holy spirit, not just in the name of, but in the case of the anointed with the heavenly hope actually baptised with holy spirit, does rather point to holy spirit being something which can either be divided, or spread amongst other people.

I certainly don't get the impression that either John, Paul, or know who wrote acts, felt that the holy spirit was a sentience being.

I do. I also get the impression that Jesus considered the Holy Spirit a person.

Of course, those who believe in the fictional Trinity, have to believe holy spirit is a person, just as they have to deny the scriptural fact, as shown by John amongst others, that the one who became Christ was a created being.

One can only support that thought by using a Miss translated version of John 1:1, which comparison of the interlinear and English-only columns of the Emphatic Diaglott clearly shows.

http://archive.org...

Only those who are prepared to ignore the evidence in order to stick with the doctrine created by man can possibly try to deny. Even then, they will fail because the evidence is clear.

I fail to see the evidence you're claiming.
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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7/10/2013 12:49:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:46:21 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:16:10 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
From what you say, I assume that you are a believer in that worst of all fictions, the Trinity. That being the case, how do you explain the scripture I mentioned in my original post which says that blasphemy against the Sun will be forgiven, whereas blasphemy against holy spirit will not. That makes for a very unequal equal part of the Trinity. Which in itself makes a nonsense of the Trinity.

If you can explain I John 5:7 without a trinity, I'd like to hear it.

By the way:

Mark 3:28-29
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

There's nothing in there that says you can blaspheme against the Son. If the two are one, you obviously cannot.

Matthew 12?

'Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.'

Obviously blaspheming against the Son is wrong, but it seems forgivable.
Naysayer
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7/10/2013 12:56:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:49:48 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Matthew 12?

'Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.'

Obviously blaspheming against the Son is wrong, but it seems forgivable.

Yeah, I was thinking in the back of my mind, why did I think that was in there? I was thinking there might be another passage.

I do think there's significance in the phrase Son of man versus Son of God not that I want to sidetrack.
drafterman
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7/10/2013 1:02:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:23:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:20:28 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:17:10 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:14:44 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:12:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 11:29:29 AM, drafterman wrote:
Fiction.

Well it is certainly evidence that you have say in spirit as opposed to holy spirit, since that is the exact opposite of the action of God's spirit.

It is also the exact opposite of how Christ taught us to be, since he taught that we should love our enemy, you cannot love someone if you're wishing harm.

Fiction it most certainly ain't.

My spirit animal says otherwise.

That to indicates a form of satanic influence.

I just asked him if he was Satan. He said no.

Lo, he would.

Yeah, but I'd know if he was lying.
johnlubba
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7/10/2013 1:25:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Proving Spirit exists is one thing, Proving a Holy Spirit exists is way out there....Oh that's right it's written down in a book, so it must be true.
MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 1:55:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:29:52 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:10:00 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
W
Nothing about that translation points to holy spirit is being a person, it's merely says that it is the spirit of the holy which actually fits in better with the idea of it being God's active force.

The angel Gabriel was named and there is nothing to say that he was holy spirit. True, he was a spirit, and almost certainly still is, but then so is God as well as Christ and all the angels.

To be honest, what Muslims believe is of no import to me, because they do not believe the truth of God and Christ, and that is all I'm interested in.

Whether the Holy spirit is Gabriel or not, he till is a person (like all spirits.What do you mean by truth of God and Christ ?!

The truth as taught by God and by Christ, as found in the scriptures. There is only one God, with one name whihc He shares with none.

I can see no way in which, despite having personified it, holy spirit is a person. I now beyond any room for doubt, that I am guided by holy spirit.

However I am still interested in hearing why people think I am wrong.
MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 1:56:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 1:55:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:29:52 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:10:00 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
W
Nothing about that translation points to holy spirit is being a person, it's merely says that it is the spirit of the holy which actually fits in better with the idea of it being God's active force.

The angel Gabriel was named and there is nothing to say that he was holy spirit. True, he was a spirit, and almost certainly still is, but then so is God as well as Christ and all the angels.

To be honest, what Muslims believe is of no import to me, because they do not believe the truth of God and Christ, and that is all I'm interested in.

Whether the Holy spirit is Gabriel or not, he till is a person (like all spirits.What do you mean by truth of God and Christ ?!

The truth as taught by God and by Christ, as found in the scriptures. There is only one God, with one name whihc He shares with none.

I can see no way in which, despite having personified it, holy spirit is a person. I now beyond any room for doubt, that I am guided by holy spirit.

However I am still interested in hearing why people think I am wrong.
MadCornishBiker
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7/10/2013 1:57:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:31:39 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:25:49 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Sorry, it simply doesn't work.

What doesn't work and why ?

The thought that Gabriel is holy spirit. specifically, and anything that makes holy spirit a person generally.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/10/2013 2:18:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 1:55:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:29:52 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:10:00 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
W
Nothing about that translation points to holy spirit is being a person, it's merely says that it is the spirit of the holy which actually fits in better with the idea of it being God's active force.

The angel Gabriel was named and there is nothing to say that he was holy spirit. True, he was a spirit, and almost certainly still is, but then so is God as well as Christ and all the angels.

To be honest, what Muslims believe is of no import to me, because they do not believe the truth of God and Christ, and that is all I'm interested in.

Whether the Holy spirit is Gabriel or not, he till is a person (like all spirits.What do you mean by truth of God and Christ ?!

The truth as taught by God and by Christ, as found in the scriptures. There is only one God, with one name whihc He shares with none.

I can see no way in which, despite having personified it, holy spirit is a person. I now beyond any room for doubt, that I am guided by holy spirit.

However I am still interested in hearing why people think I am wrong.

I already told you, my spirit animal told me you were wrong.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/10/2013 3:04:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 2:18:07 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/10/2013 1:55:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:29:52 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:10:00 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
W
Nothing about that translation points to holy spirit is being a person, it's merely says that it is the spirit of the holy which actually fits in better with the idea of it being God's active force.

The angel Gabriel was named and there is nothing to say that he was holy spirit. True, he was a spirit, and almost certainly still is, but then so is God as well as Christ and all the angels.

To be honest, what Muslims believe is of no import to me, because they do not believe the truth of God and Christ, and that is all I'm interested in.

Whether the Holy spirit is Gabriel or not, he till is a person (like all spirits.What do you mean by truth of God and Christ ?!

The truth as taught by God and by Christ, as found in the scriptures. There is only one God, with one name whihc He shares with none.

I can see no way in which, despite having personified it, holy spirit is a person. I now beyond any room for doubt, that I am guided by holy spirit.

However I am still interested in hearing why people think I am wrong.

I already told you, my spirit animal told me you were wrong.

yes, you did, I didn't realise that you were actually being serious, LOL.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/10/2013 3:14:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 3:04:37 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 2:18:07 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/10/2013 1:55:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:29:52 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:10:00 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
W
Nothing about that translation points to holy spirit is being a person, it's merely says that it is the spirit of the holy which actually fits in better with the idea of it being God's active force.

The angel Gabriel was named and there is nothing to say that he was holy spirit. True, he was a spirit, and almost certainly still is, but then so is God as well as Christ and all the angels.

To be honest, what Muslims believe is of no import to me, because they do not believe the truth of God and Christ, and that is all I'm interested in.

Whether the Holy spirit is Gabriel or not, he till is a person (like all spirits.What do you mean by truth of God and Christ ?!

The truth as taught by God and by Christ, as found in the scriptures. There is only one God, with one name whihc He shares with none.

I can see no way in which, despite having personified it, holy spirit is a person. I now beyond any room for doubt, that I am guided by holy spirit.

However I am still interested in hearing why people think I am wrong.

I already told you, my spirit animal told me you were wrong.

yes, you did, I didn't realise that you were actually being serious, LOL.

Explain how communication from some holy spirit is any more/less serious than my spirit animal?