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Happy 2nd day of Ramadan everyone

1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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7/11/2013 12:33:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 5:58:38 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Thanks.

Ramadhan, a full month of worship, that elevates spirits to a higher level.



Very nice.
Is that Mecca?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What's the big black thing in the middle?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/11/2013 12:40:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
What's the big black thing in the middle?

It's the Kaaba.

An utterly ridiculous part of the Muslim faith.

#justsaying
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/11/2013 9:32:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
What's the big black thing in the middle?

Yes it's the Kaabah in Makkah, the first house of God, that was built for the worshipper of God, then was taken by pagans over time, and finally was taken Back by monotheists in Mohamed Era.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/11/2013 9:38:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 12:40:45 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
What's the big black thing in the middle?

It's the Kaaba.

An utterly ridiculous part of the Muslim faith.

#justsaying

Usually it's the opposite that happens, after people receive light from God through the prophets, they mix it with superstition and become pagans after few generations.So it's the pagans taking from the monotheist way, never the opposite.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/11/2013 9:48:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 3:07:47 AM, Composer wrote:
Ramadan was a non-Muslim pagan Arab festival Categories:
Atheism
by Taslima Nasreen
(Source: http://freethoughtblogs.com...)

"The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice. Ramadan fasting came later from Sabian tradition. Sabians are mentioned in several verses of the Quran [al-Baqarah 2:62], [al-Hajj 22:17] , [al-Maa"idah 5:69] along with Christians and Jewish. Sabians, a non-Muslim Iraqi tribe, believed in monotheism, observed fasting 30 days a year, and prayed 5 times a day."

As you can read and from your own source, it comes from a monotheist practice!

http://en.wikipedia.org...
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2013 10:00:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 3:07:47 AM, Composer wrote:
Ramadan was a non-Muslim pagan Arab festival Categories:
Atheism
by Taslima Nasreen
(Source: http://freethoughtblogs.com...)
Yep.

At 7/11/2013 9:32:32 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
What's the big black thing in the middle?

Yes it's the Kaabah in Makkah, the first house of God, that was built for the worshipper of God, then was taken by pagans over time, and finally was taken Back by monotheists in Mohamed Era.
Sure, if you believe in "reverse causality". But if we allow that to be the case, then an effect can come before the cause.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,751
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7/11/2013 10:04:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 11:15:03 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
In response I have this great video, enjoy.



In response: I have this great video:
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/11/2013 10:19:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 10:00:30 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/11/2013 3:07:47 AM, Composer wrote:
Ramadan was a non-Muslim pagan Arab festival Categories:
Atheism
by Taslima Nasreen
(Source: http://freethoughtblogs.com...)
Yep.

At 7/11/2013 9:32:32 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
What's the big black thing in the middle?

Yes it's the Kaabah in Makkah, the first house of God, that was built for the worshipper of God, then was taken by pagans over time, and finally was taken Back by monotheists in Mohamed Era.
Sure, if you believe in "reverse causality". But if we allow that to be the case, then an effect can come before the cause.

"The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice. Ramadan fasting came later from Sabian tradition. Sabians are mentioned in several verses of the Quran [al-Baqarah 2:62], [al-Hajj 22:17] , [al-Maa"idah 5:69] along with Christians and Jewish. Sabians, a non-Muslim Iraqi tribe, believed in monotheism, observed fasting 30 days a year, and prayed 5 times a day."

From the source you quote without reading! interesting indeed.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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7/11/2013 3:28:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 12:07:22 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Lol, even a comedic video posted with a simple message turns in to a debate. xD

Seeing as how you associated a holiday practiced by millions of Muslims to a violent Salaafist radical, are you that surprised?

Would you have been shocked if there was a response when on Christmas someone posted a video of the KKK giving speeches about how this is a Christian nation?
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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7/11/2013 3:29:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 12:40:45 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
What's the big black thing in the middle?

It's the Kaaba.

An utterly ridiculous part of the Muslim faith.

#justsaying

As opposed to wearing a medieval torture device around your neck to symbolize your love of God?
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2013 5:40:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 10:19:42 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/11/2013 10:00:30 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/11/2013 3:07:47 AM, Composer wrote:
Ramadan was a non-Muslim pagan Arab festival Categories:
Atheism
by Taslima Nasreen
(Source: http://freethoughtblogs.com...)
Yep.

At 7/11/2013 9:32:32 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
What's the big black thing in the middle?

Yes it's the Kaabah in Makkah, the first house of God, that was built for the worshipper of God, then was taken by pagans over time, and finally was taken Back by monotheists in Mohamed Era.
Sure, if you believe in "reverse causality". But if we allow that to be the case, then an effect can come before the cause.

"The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice. Ramadan fasting came later from Sabian tradition. Sabians are mentioned in several verses of the Quran [al-Baqarah 2:62], [al-Hajj 22:17] , [al-Maa"idah 5:69] along with Christians and Jewish. Sabians, a non-Muslim Iraqi tribe, believed in monotheism, observed fasting 30 days a year, and prayed 5 times a day."

From the source you quote without reading! interesting indeed.
1) I quoted? Where?

2) You quoted "The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice."

Fasting originated from pagan practices which preceded the mono-theistic ones.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/11/2013 5:58:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 5:40:06 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
From the source you quote without reading! interesting indeed.
1) I quoted? Where?

2) You quoted "The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice."

Fasting originated from pagan practices which preceded the mono-theistic ones.

1) you quoted the quoting of the person who quoted the link :p2) Ashura is the day when the people of Moses were miraculously saved, the Jews are the ones who used to fast it, so the Pagans basically took it from the jews but with the time ignored where it came from!. so the fasting of the Ashura is originally from a monotheistic religion, and Islam confirmed it. It was narrated that Ibn "Abbas said:"The Prophet (saw) came to Al- Madinah, and he found the Jews observing a fast. He said: "What is this?" They said: "This is the day when Allah saved Musa and drowned Pharaoh, so Musa fasted this day in gratitude." The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: "We have more right to Musa than you do." So he fasted (that day) and enjoined (others) to fast it also.""http://sunnah.com... author basically gave half the info, which makes all the difference.There is no one command in Islam that is from the pagans inovations.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/12/2013 11:41:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 12:40:45 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/11/2013 12:39:09 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
What's the big black thing in the middle?

It's the Kaaba.

An utterly ridiculous part of the Muslim faith.

#justsaying
Not sure what your point is -- we don't use the Kaaba as an object of worship. The reason we pray in its direction is for unity. None of it is part of idol worship.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/12/2013 12:42:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/11/2013 5:58:11 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/11/2013 5:40:06 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
From the source you quote without reading! interesting indeed.
1) I quoted? Where?

2) You quoted "The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice."

Fasting originated from pagan practices which preceded the mono-theistic ones.

1) you quoted the quoting of the person who quoted the link
Yeah, I quoted the whole thing in response to him, not you but ok, I'll bite...

...p2) Ashura is the day when the people of Moses were miraculously saved, the Jews are the ones who used to fast it, so the Pagans basically took it from the jews but with the time ignored where it came from!. so the fasting of the Ashura is originally from a monotheistic religion, and Islam confirmed it.
Jews and Christians don't go pagan temples to fast and worship 360 idols. Where is your source that the pagans "took it" from the Jews? I wouldn't say that Islam "confirmed", I'd say copied.

2) No where on that page (http://freethoughtblogs.com...) does the following text appear "Ashura is the day when the people of Moses..." Instead what does appear: "It is a well-known fact that Islam adapted the Pagan practice of fasting." It also says "Not only Ramadan fasting, other Pagan rituals were also Islamized. The Ka"aba in Mecca was a center of idol-worship. 360 idols were kept in the Ka"aba...The Black-stone or al-M16;ajar al-Aswad of the Ka"aba became the central shrine object in Islam. It was one of the many stones and idols venerated by pre-Islamic Pagans. The Black Stone was kissed by people during pre-Islamic pagan worship. Muhammad did not completely abolish Idol worship, he made the Black Stone stay and allowed people to continue the practice of kissing the stone. It is the same pre-Islamic Pagan stone that Muslims kiss today during Hajj and Umrah. The Islamic historians believe that the black stone was a pagan deity called "Al-Lat", one of the three daughters of Allah, the Pagan moon-god. She was once venerated as a cubic rock at Ta"if in Arabia."

It was narrated that Ibn "Abbas said:"The Prophet (saw) came to Al- Madinah, and he found the Jews observing a fast. He said: "What is this?" They said: "This is the day when Allah saved Musa and drowned Pharaoh, so Musa fasted this day in gratitude." The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: "We have more right to Musa than you do." So he fasted (that day) and enjoined (others) to fast it also.""http://sunnah.com... author basically gave half the info, which makes all the difference.There is no one command in Islam that is from the pagans inovations.
All written AFTER the fact. You missed a spot: "...'I have a greater right on Moses than what they do. Therefore, my people will fast on Ashura in the same way they are fasting on Ashura.' One of the companions exclaimed: 'O Messenger of Allah, but we are going to be copying the Jews' and the prophet then replied: 'You are right, from now on we will fast on the 9th and 10th'."
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/12/2013 1:48:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/12/2013 12:42:34 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/11/2013 5:58:11 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/11/2013 5:40:06 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
From the source you quote without reading! interesting indeed.
1) I quoted? Where?

2) You quoted "The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice."

Fasting originated from pagan practices which preceded the mono-theistic ones.

1) you quoted the quoting of the person who quoted the link
Yeah, I quoted the whole thing in response to him, not you but ok, I'll bite...

...p2) Ashura is the day when the people of Moses were miraculously saved, the Jews are the ones who used to fast it, so the Pagans basically took it from the jews but with the time ignored where it came from!. so the fasting of the Ashura is originally from a monotheistic religion, and Islam confirmed it.
Jews and Christians don't go pagan temples to fast and worship 360 idols. Where is your source that the pagans "took it" from the Jews? I wouldn't say that Islam "confirmed", I'd say copied.

2) No where on that page (http://freethoughtblogs.com...) does the following text appear "Ashura is the day when the people of Moses..." Instead what does appear: "It is a well-known fact that Islam adapted the Pagan practice of fasting." It also says "Not only Ramadan fasting, other Pagan rituals were also Islamized. The Ka"aba in Mecca was a center of idol-worship. 360 idols were kept in the Ka"aba...The Black-stone or al-M16;ajar al-Aswad of the Ka"aba became the central shrine object in Islam. It was one of the many stones and idols venerated by pre-Islamic Pagans. The Black Stone was kissed by people during pre-Islamic pagan worship. Muhammad did not completely abolish Idol worship, he made the Black Stone stay and allowed people to continue the practice of kissing the stone. It is the same pre-Islamic Pagan stone that Muslims kiss today during Hajj and Umrah. The Islamic historians believe that the black stone was a pagan deity called "Al-Lat", one of the three daughters of Allah, the Pagan moon-god. She was once venerated as a cubic rock at Ta"if in Arabia."

It was narrated that Ibn "Abbas said:"The Prophet (saw) came to Al- Madinah, and he found the Jews observing a fast. He said: "What is this?" They said: "This is the day when Allah saved Musa and drowned Pharaoh, so Musa fasted this day in gratitude." The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: "We have more right to Musa than you do." So he fasted (that day) and enjoined (others) to fast it also.""http://sunnah.com... author basically gave half the info, which makes all the difference.There is no one command in Islam that is from the pagans inovations.
All written AFTER the fact. You missed a spot: "...'I have a greater right on Moses than what they do. Therefore, my people will fast on Ashura in the same way they are fasting on Ashura.' One of the companions exclaimed: 'O Messenger of Allah, but we are going to be copying the Jews' and the prophet then replied: 'You are right, from now on we will fast on the 9th and 10th'."

You are purposely avoiding to go enough far in the History.Arabs didn't get Prophets for a very long time, so from Ismael , nothing until Mohamed, they Had the time to follow superstitions and falsehood. The Children of Israel on the other Hand, kept receiving light on light from God through his messengers to them, until God judged he will give the light to another nation (like in the parable Jesus made.Yes there were Idols in the first church , that was put there by ignorant for pilgrims used to come, and the pilgrimage rituals date from the arrival of Hagar and her son Ismael to Arabia, and Abraham Who built the Kaaba with Ismael, that was the first church on earth, did circle it in the same fashion Muslims do today. The Arabs added beside the true God until they were in complete darkness. Then God poured his light unto them by sending His messenger. Mohamed is not anti-Jesus, or Anti-Moses, in the opposite, he is a prophet like they were prophets before him, he did not come to invent a religion!But one of the commands he left to Muslims is to not copy Jews and Christian ways (not the Jews and Christians not Moses and Jesus) for both the Jews and the Christians deviated from the straight path.So he fasted the Ashura because Moses fasted, but when he knew Jews too fast, he said that if he lives to next year he would fast the 9th as well to be different from them. and just so you know, he didn't live to the next year, but we do follow the command as said.And copying the prophets is following the light.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/12/2013 10:57:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ashura (Arabic) = Eser (Hebrew) that is the Yom Kippur, the Jews do fast on that day that is the 10th day of the 7th month in their calendar (Hebrew year), and is the 10th day in the first month of the Islamic calendar (lunar year).

Please to note that although the Hebrew calendar is Luni-solar today, it was originally Lunar.

https://en.wikipedia.org...