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to CHRISTIANS, why not keep the OT commands ?

Fruitytree
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7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination ?!

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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7/15/2013 4:08:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Most of the old testament commandments were commanded only to Jews, God NEVER commanded anyone else to keep them. Even today, Jews are not a proselytizing nation, as they do not believe that the Old Testament was commanded/binding on everyone, & thus there is no need for everyone to follow all of it.
There are a couple of exceptions like don't steal/kill, & don't worship idols.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/15/2013 5:01:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!
You are indeed confused. Why do you think that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!
And He also said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill."

A covenant, as established with the law and God's promises, ends with death. A modern example of a covenant, is marriage. A man is bound to his wife, and a woman her husband, until one of them dies and the living spouse is free to remarry, if they so choose.

Jesus's death represented the end of the old covenant; his resurrection marks the beginning of the new one. Christians still follow the commandments, but Christians also follow the other teachings of Jesus, and the day of worship is Sunday now instead of Saturday. Christians celebrate different holidays than Jews do.

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination?
Perhaps this will help:

What Jesus invalidated was human teachings construed by rabbi's which they passed off as teachings of religion: "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matt 15:9). Jesus did not abolish the commandments that God had promulgated of old, for He Himself was God who had established them.

Jesus also asserted that He came to fulfill the law and prophets, which He did by replacing the type with reality, as when He replaced the Paschal Lamb with the Holy Eucharist. The temple and synagogue would yield to St. Peter's Basilica and the parish churches. To make more perfect what was imperfect before is to keep the old in place and to build on it, as a church spire rests on the infrastructure.

Finally, the Christian religion would eventually break out of its Jewish cultural cocoon, and emerge as the Religion of the Nations: Catholic. It is in this manner that Jesus explained His true mission: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them."

In his Epistle to the Romans, Paul wrote: "We are not under the law but under grace." (6:15).


55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT
And keep He did, as we were all required to do until His death and resurrection.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/16/2013 8:34:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 4:08:54 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Most of the old testament commandments were commanded only to Jews, God NEVER commanded anyone else to keep them. Even today, Jews are not a proselytizing nation, as they do not believe that the Old Testament was commanded/binding on everyone, & thus there is no need for everyone to follow all of it.
There are a couple of exceptions like don't steal/kill, & don't worship idols.

Ok, but how one can know if he does believe but isn't an Israelite, what are the commands he ought to observe and the commands that aren't for everybody ?
Fruitytree
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7/16/2013 8:41:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 5:01:23 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!
You are indeed confused. Why do you think that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!
And He also said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill."

A covenant, as established with the law and God's promises, ends with death. A modern example of a covenant, is marriage. A man is bound to his wife, and a woman her husband, until one of them dies and the living spouse is free to remarry, if they so choose.

Jesus's death represented the end of the old covenant; his resurrection marks the beginning of the new one. Christians still follow the commandments, but Christians also follow the other teachings of Jesus, and the day of worship is Sunday now instead of Saturday. Christians celebrate different holidays than Jews do.

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination?
Perhaps this will help:

What Jesus invalidated was human teachings construed by rabbi's which they passed off as teachings of religion: "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matt 15:9). Jesus did not abolish the commandments that God had promulgated of old, for He Himself was God who had established them.

Jesus also asserted that He came to fulfill the law and prophets, which He did by replacing the type with reality, as when He replaced the Paschal Lamb with the Holy Eucharist. The temple and synagogue would yield to St. Peter's Basilica and the parish churches. To make more perfect what was imperfect before is to keep the old in place and to build on it, as a church spire rests on the infrastructure.

Finally, the Christian religion would eventually break out of its Jewish cultural cocoon, and emerge as the Religion of the Nations: Catholic. It is in this manner that Jesus explained His true mission: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them."

In his Epistle to the Romans, Paul wrote: "We are not under the law but under grace." (6:15).

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT
And keep He did, as we were all required to do until His death and resurrection.

So you're basically saying , although Jesus observed the law, said he is the way, his death is the end of the old covenant.Did Jesus say anything to support that ? did his close disciples John, James and Peter say anything in that sense?! did they not observe the law themselves ? they who received Jesus good testimony of being on the right path and the rest of the 11 disciples. Paul is a late disciple, he did not receive Jesus testimony, and if he says something that conflicts with the way of the confirmed disciples , then it shouldn't be taken in consideration.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/16/2013 8:41:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 5:01:23 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!
You are indeed confused. Why do you think that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!
And He also said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill."

A covenant, as established with the law and God's promises, ends with death. A modern example of a covenant, is marriage. A man is bound to his wife, and a woman her husband, until one of them dies and the living spouse is free to remarry, if they so choose.

Jesus's death represented the end of the old covenant; his resurrection marks the beginning of the new one. Christians still follow the commandments, but Christians also follow the other teachings of Jesus, and the day of worship is Sunday now instead of Saturday. Christians celebrate different holidays than Jews do.

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination?
Perhaps this will help:

What Jesus invalidated was human teachings construed by rabbi's which they passed off as teachings of religion: "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matt 15:9). Jesus did not abolish the commandments that God had promulgated of old, for He Himself was God who had established them.

Jesus also asserted that He came to fulfill the law and prophets, which He did by replacing the type with reality, as when He replaced the Paschal Lamb with the Holy Eucharist. The temple and synagogue would yield to St. Peter's Basilica and the parish churches. To make more perfect what was imperfect before is to keep the old in place and to build on it, as a church spire rests on the infrastructure.

Finally, the Christian religion would eventually break out of its Jewish cultural cocoon, and emerge as the Religion of the Nations: Catholic. It is in this manner that Jesus explained His true mission: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them."

In his Epistle to the Romans, Paul wrote: "We are not under the law but under grace." (6:15).


55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT
And keep He did, as we were all required to do until His death and resurrection.

How many witches, homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children have you killed? Following the LAW? I don't think so. Explain why you WONT follow gods law.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/16/2013 8:45:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:41:51 AM, bulproof wrote:

How many witches, homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children have you killed? Following the LAW? I don't think so. Explain why you WONT follow gods law.

He is a citizen , he can not establish the law that is supposed to be established by the nation.

Killing witches is not for citizens but for governments, it isn't his responsibility.

I'm speaking about individual laws, like fasting praying, worshiping rituals that every person should be observing.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,470
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7/16/2013 8:48:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:34:04 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/15/2013 4:08:54 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Most of the old testament commandments were commanded only to Jews, God NEVER commanded anyone else to keep them. Even today, Jews are not a proselytizing nation, as they do not believe that the Old Testament was commanded/binding on everyone, & thus there is no need for everyone to follow all of it.
There are a couple of exceptions like don't steal/kill, & don't worship idols.

Ok, but how one can know if he does believe but isn't an Israelite, what are the commands he ought to observe and the commands that aren't for everybody ?

There's a definitive answer to this in the New Testament book of Acts, chapter 15: http://www.biblegateway.com...

The 'New Testament', that is, the "New Contract" is a whole new concept, not merely a retelling of the OT, the way Islam is. In the 'New Contract' God's Spirit is to live in believers and guide them from within, instead of having an external set of laws. Of course, we Christians generally haven't done any better listening to God than the Jews did, but that's the idea, anyway. But I will say, for those who do accept God and trust Him with their life, there are sometimes dramatic and very positive changes in a person, changes not based on following a written code.
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/16/2013 8:55:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:48:10 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:34:04 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/15/2013 4:08:54 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Most of the old testament commandments were commanded only to Jews, God NEVER commanded anyone else to keep them. Even today, Jews are not a proselytizing nation, as they do not believe that the Old Testament was commanded/binding on everyone, & thus there is no need for everyone to follow all of it.
There are a couple of exceptions like don't steal/kill, & don't worship idols.

Ok, but how one can know if he does believe but isn't an Israelite, what are the commands he ought to observe and the commands that aren't for everybody ?

There's a definitive answer to this in the New Testament book of Acts, chapter 15: http://www.biblegateway.com...

The 'New Testament', that is, the "New Contract" is a whole new concept, not merely a retelling of the OT, the way Islam is. In the 'New Contract' God's Spirit is to live in believers and guide them from within, instead of having an external set of laws. Of course, we Christians generally haven't done any better listening to God than the Jews did, but that's the idea, anyway. But I will say, for those who do accept God and trust Him with their life, there are sometimes dramatic and very positive changes in a person, changes not based on following a written code.
Yes just claim that you are good and god's rules don't apply to you as long as you think you are good. Oh but some of god's rules matter, like killing homosexuals, have I got that right? meds thinks I have
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fruitytree
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7/16/2013 9:07:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:48:10 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:34:04 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/15/2013 4:08:54 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Most of the old testament commandments were commanded only to Jews, God NEVER commanded anyone else to keep them. Even today, Jews are not a proselytizing nation, as they do not believe that the Old Testament was commanded/binding on everyone, & thus there is no need for everyone to follow all of it.
There are a couple of exceptions like don't steal/kill, & don't worship idols.

Ok, but how one can know if he does believe but isn't an Israelite, what are the commands he ought to observe and the commands that aren't for everybody ?

There's a definitive answer to this in the New Testament book of Acts, chapter 15: http://www.biblegateway.com...

The 'New Testament', that is, the "New Contract" is a whole new concept, not merely a retelling of the OT, the way Islam is. In the 'New Contract' God's Spirit is to live in believers and guide them from within, instead of having an external set of laws. Of course, we Christians generally haven't done any better listening to God than the Jews did, but that's the idea, anyway. But I will say, for those who do accept God and trust Him with their life, there are sometimes dramatic and very positive changes in a person, changes not based on following a written code.

Thank you, I understand basically that the apostles tried to make it easy for the gentiles. but should we take from this that the gentiles should not observe all the law? or to make it simple:What is better, keep the law like Jesus did, or keep the small part like the gentiles did?
Fruitytree
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7/16/2013 9:12:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes just claim that you are good and god's rules don't apply to you as long as you think you are good. Oh but some of god's rules matter, like killing homosexuals, have I got that right? meds thinks I have

All a believer can do regarding this ,is vote conservative.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/16/2013 9:12:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:45:01 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:41:51 AM, bulproof wrote:

How many witches, homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children have you killed? Following the LAW? I don't think so. Explain why you WONT follow gods law.



He is a citizen , he can not establish the law that is supposed to be established by the nation.

Killing witches is not for citizens but for governments, it isn't his responsibility.

I'm speaking about individual laws, like fasting praying, worshiping rituals that every person should be observing.

Read the book you're discussing. The LAW has nothing to do with government. It applies to all believers, that includes YOU. How many adulterers have you killed?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fruitytree
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7/16/2013 9:16:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 9:12:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:45:01 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:41:51 AM, bulproof wrote:

How many witches, homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children have you killed? Following the LAW? I don't think so. Explain why you WONT follow gods law.



He is a citizen , he can not establish the law that is supposed to be established by the nation.

Killing witches is not for citizens but for governments, it isn't his responsibility.

I'm speaking about individual laws, like fasting praying, worshiping rituals that every person should be observing.

Read the book you're discussing. The LAW has nothing to do with government. It applies to all believers, that includes YOU. How many adulterers have you killed?

In my faith like in theirs, there are laws meant for individuals, and laws meant for government. establishing Justice is a government task, punishing immorality is a government task tooThis is why when one commits an immorality, he is taken to the ruler, not punished by the people who caught him !!
v3nesl
Posts: 4,470
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7/16/2013 9:30:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:55:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
...
Yes just claim that you are good and god's rules don't apply to you as long as you think you are good. Oh but some of god's rules matter, like killing homosexuals, have I got that right? meds thinks I have

Right, I'm all about killing homosexuals.

You know, what a person has to be constantly absurd and can't be real about a subject, it probably means you're running from something (or someone!)
This space for rent.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/16/2013 9:34:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:41:42 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/15/2013 5:01:23 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!
You are indeed confused. Why do you think that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!
And He also said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill."

A covenant, as established with the law and God's promises, ends with death. A modern example of a covenant, is marriage. A man is bound to his wife, and a woman her husband, until one of them dies and the living spouse is free to remarry, if they so choose.

Jesus's death represented the end of the old covenant; his resurrection marks the beginning of the new one. Christians still follow the commandments, but Christians also follow the other teachings of Jesus, and the day of worship is Sunday now instead of Saturday. Christians celebrate different holidays than Jews do.

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination?
Perhaps this will help:

What Jesus invalidated was human teachings construed by rabbi's which they passed off as teachings of religion: "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matt 15:9). Jesus did not abolish the commandments that God had promulgated of old, for He Himself was God who had established them.

Jesus also asserted that He came to fulfill the law and prophets, which He did by replacing the type with reality, as when He replaced the Paschal Lamb with the Holy Eucharist. The temple and synagogue would yield to St. Peter's Basilica and the parish churches. To make more perfect what was imperfect before is to keep the old in place and to build on it, as a church spire rests on the infrastructure.

Finally, the Christian religion would eventually break out of its Jewish cultural cocoon, and emerge as the Religion of the Nations: Catholic. It is in this manner that Jesus explained His true mission: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them."

In his Epistle to the Romans, Paul wrote: "We are not under the law but under grace." (6:15).

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT
And keep He did, as we were all required to do until His death and resurrection.

So you're basically saying , although Jesus observed the law, said he is the way, his death is the end of the old covenant.Did Jesus say anything to support that ? did his close disciples John, James and Peter say anything in that sense?! did they not observe the law themselves ? they who received Jesus good testimony of being on the right path and the rest of the 11 disciples.
If you read what I posted, you'd know the answer to the questions. If you are not sure, go back and read it again so that you can get the answers.

Paul is a late disciple, he did not receive Jesus testimony, and if he says something that conflicts with the way of the confirmed disciples , then it shouldn't be taken in consideration.
Being as how what he said doesn't conflict, it stands.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/16/2013 9:40:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 9:16:11 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/16/2013 9:12:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:45:01 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:41:51 AM, bulproof wrote:

How many witches, homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children have you killed? Following the LAW? I don't think so. Explain why you WONT follow gods law.



He is a citizen , he can not establish the law that is supposed to be established by the nation.

Killing witches is not for citizens but for governments, it isn't his responsibility.

I'm speaking about individual laws, like fasting praying, worshiping rituals that every person should be observing.

Read the book you're discussing. The LAW has nothing to do with government. It applies to all believers, that includes YOU. How many adulterers have you killed?

In my faith like in theirs, there are laws meant for individuals, and laws meant for government. establishing Justice is a government task, punishing immorality is a government task tooThis is why when one commits an immorality, he is taken to the ruler, not punished by the people who caught him !!
As I said fruity READ the book, cos you're wrong.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
v3nesl
Posts: 4,470
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7/16/2013 9:46:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 9:07:31 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:48:10 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/16/2013 8:34:04 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/15/2013 4:08:54 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Most of the old testament commandments were commanded only to Jews, God NEVER commanded anyone else to keep them. Even today, Jews are not a proselytizing nation, as they do not believe that the Old Testament was commanded/binding on everyone, & thus there is no need for everyone to follow all of it.
There are a couple of exceptions like don't steal/kill, & don't worship idols.

Ok, but how one can know if he does believe but isn't an Israelite, what are the commands he ought to observe and the commands that aren't for everybody ?

There's a definitive answer to this in the New Testament book of Acts, chapter 15: http://www.biblegateway.com...

The 'New Testament', that is, the "New Contract" is a whole new concept, not merely a retelling of the OT, the way Islam is. In the 'New Contract' God's Spirit is to live in believers and guide them from within, instead of having an external set of laws. Of course, we Christians generally haven't done any better listening to God than the Jews did, but that's the idea, anyway. But I will say, for those who do accept God and trust Him with their life, there are sometimes dramatic and very positive changes in a person, changes not based on following a written code.

Thank you, I understand basically that the apostles tried to make it easy for the gentiles. but should we take from this that the gentiles should not observe all the law? or to make it simple:What is better, keep the law like Jesus did, or keep the small part like the gentiles did?

Well, this might be the actual answer: In Christianity you can't become a better Christian. Christ is our savior, our rescuer, and he gets all the credit. The NT teaches us that good living is a gift from God, not our gift to him. The book of Galatians shows how goodness is the fruit, the natural result of God's Spirit in us, it does not come from a Christian trying harder or obeying more rules.

When evil men flew planes into the WTC, they were showing that their religion produced no fruit in them. They were still living by the natural human tendency to hate, even though they were very religious. This is the difference between law, any law, and God's Spirit - the Spirit changes a person's heart, he doesn't just regulate their outward actions.
This space for rent.
tBoonePickens
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7/16/2013 9:58:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:41:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
How many witches, homosexuals, adulterers and disobedient children have you killed?
Me personally, none.

Following the LAW? I don't think so. Explain why you WONT follow gods law.
Once you sharpen your reading comprehension skills, you will have the answers.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
TN05
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7/16/2013 10:11:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination ?!

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT

Because we believe those laws were handed down specifically for the Jewish people. In fact, in many regards the Jewish people would agree on this; rather than trying to convert people and get them to follow Jewish law, they instead encourage everyone to follow the Seven Laws of Noah. In Jewish theology, the laws of Noah were given to all of mankind, while the laws of Israel were given to only Israel. Jewish theology asserts that any gentile who follows the laws of Noah will have a place in the 'world to come'.

Now, we Christians believe that Jesus came to fulfill the Jewish laws. We do not follow the ritualistic laws, because we believe these to have been abolished and replaced. We do not follow the judicial laws, because those applied specifically (and only) to Israel. We do follow the moral laws, because the principle of those laws is eternal. To give an example, let's look at the 10 commandments. We aim to follow almost all of them, with the exception of the law relating to the Sabbath, because that law is a ritualistic law. The other 9 laws are moral laws, and we are obligated to try and follow them.

Additionally, we look at the judicial laws not to create current law, but to see what was made illegal and the reasoning for it. If the reasoning is not exclusive to Israel, we tend to believe it is immoral. For example, witchcraft is banned in the Old Testament. While we aren't going to execute witches, because the judicial portion is abrogated, we do believe the command to not practice witchcraft is eternal.

I hope that helps a little bit.
bulproof
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7/16/2013 11:46:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 10:11:50 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination ?!

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT

Because we believe those laws were handed down specifically for the Jewish people. In fact, in many regards the Jewish people would agree on this; rather than trying to convert people and get them to follow Jewish law, they instead encourage everyone to follow the Seven Laws of Noah. In Jewish theology, the laws of Noah were given to all of mankind, while the laws of Israel were given to only Israel. Jewish theology asserts that any gentile who follows the laws of Noah will have a place in the 'world to come'.

Now, we Christians believe that Jesus came to fulfill the Jewish laws. We do not follow the ritualistic laws, because we believe these to have been abolished and replaced. We do not follow the judicial laws, because those applied specifically (and only) to Israel. We do follow the moral laws, because the principle of those laws is eternal. To give an example, let's look at the 10 commandments. We aim to follow almost all of them, with the exception of the law relating to the Sabbath, because that law is a ritualistic law. The other 9 laws are moral laws, and we are obligated to try and follow them.

Additionally, we look at the judicial laws not to create current law, but to see what was made illegal and the reasoning for it. If the reasoning is not exclusive to Israel, we tend to believe it is immoral. For example, witchcraft is banned in the Old Testament. While we aren't going to execute witches, because the judicial portion is abrogated, we do believe the command to not practice witchcraft is eternal.

I hope that helps a little bit.

PERFECTLY clear.
You get to pick and choose what you want to believe.
We all get it, why don't you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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7/16/2013 12:15:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 11:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 10:11:50 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination ?!

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT

Because we believe those laws were handed down specifically for the Jewish people. In fact, in many regards the Jewish people would agree on this; rather than trying to convert people and get them to follow Jewish law, they instead encourage everyone to follow the Seven Laws of Noah. In Jewish theology, the laws of Noah were given to all of mankind, while the laws of Israel were given to only Israel. Jewish theology asserts that any gentile who follows the laws of Noah will have a place in the 'world to come'.

Now, we Christians believe that Jesus came to fulfill the Jewish laws. We do not follow the ritualistic laws, because we believe these to have been abolished and replaced. We do not follow the judicial laws, because those applied specifically (and only) to Israel. We do follow the moral laws, because the principle of those laws is eternal. To give an example, let's look at the 10 commandments. We aim to follow almost all of them, with the exception of the law relating to the Sabbath, because that law is a ritualistic law. The other 9 laws are moral laws, and we are obligated to try and follow them.

Additionally, we look at the judicial laws not to create current law, but to see what was made illegal and the reasoning for it. If the reasoning is not exclusive to Israel, we tend to believe it is immoral. For example, witchcraft is banned in the Old Testament. While we aren't going to execute witches, because the judicial portion is abrogated, we do believe the command to not practice witchcraft is eternal.

I hope that helps a little bit.

PERFECTLY clear.
You get to pick and choose what you want to believe.
We all get it, why don't you?

We aren't picking and choosing. We are following the traditional precedent set in Jewish law, that Jewish law applies only to those who are Jewish - it does not apply to Gentiles. We don't 'choose' to flat-out reject the ritualistic aspect of Judaism, we are simply following the command of Jesus on that matter.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 12:15:48 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2013 11:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 10:11:50 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination ?!

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT

Because we believe those laws were handed down specifically for the Jewish people. In fact, in many regards the Jewish people would agree on this; rather than trying to convert people and get them to follow Jewish law, they instead encourage everyone to follow the Seven Laws of Noah. In Jewish theology, the laws of Noah were given to all of mankind, while the laws of Israel were given to only Israel. Jewish theology asserts that any gentile who follows the laws of Noah will have a place in the 'world to come'.

Now, we Christians believe that Jesus came to fulfill the Jewish laws. We do not follow the ritualistic laws, because we believe these to have been abolished and replaced. We do not follow the judicial laws, because those applied specifically (and only) to Israel. We do follow the moral laws, because the principle of those laws is eternal. To give an example, let's look at the 10 commandments. We aim to follow almost all of them, with the exception of the law relating to the Sabbath, because that law is a ritualistic law. The other 9 laws are moral laws, and we are obligated to try and follow them.

Additionally, we look at the judicial laws not to create current law, but to see what was made illegal and the reasoning for it. If the reasoning is not exclusive to Israel, we tend to believe it is immoral. For example, witchcraft is banned in the Old Testament. While we aren't going to execute witches, because the judicial portion is abrogated, we do believe the command to not practice witchcraft is eternal.

I hope that helps a little bit.

PERFECTLY clear.
You get to pick and choose what you want to believe.
We all get it, why don't you?

We aren't picking and choosing. We are following the traditional precedent set in Jewish law, that Jewish law applies only to those who are Jewish - it does not apply to Gentiles. We don't 'choose' to flat-out reject the ritualistic aspect of Judaism, we are simply following the command of Jesus on that matter.
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/16/2013 12:34:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.
No one's in anyone's bedroom. Do you have any more "original" thoughts?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
bulproof
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7/16/2013 12:47:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 12:34:46 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.
No one's in anyone's bedroom. Do you have any more "original" thoughts?
You are all so very afraid aren't you. Afraid of hell, afraid of sin, afraid of homosexuals, afraid of other religions but most of all afraid of your GOD.
What a life.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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7/16/2013 12:57:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 12:15:48 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2013 11:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 10:11:50 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination ?!

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT

Because we believe those laws were handed down specifically for the Jewish people. In fact, in many regards the Jewish people would agree on this; rather than trying to convert people and get them to follow Jewish law, they instead encourage everyone to follow the Seven Laws of Noah. In Jewish theology, the laws of Noah were given to all of mankind, while the laws of Israel were given to only Israel. Jewish theology asserts that any gentile who follows the laws of Noah will have a place in the 'world to come'.

Now, we Christians believe that Jesus came to fulfill the Jewish laws. We do not follow the ritualistic laws, because we believe these to have been abolished and replaced. We do not follow the judicial laws, because those applied specifically (and only) to Israel. We do follow the moral laws, because the principle of those laws is eternal. To give an example, let's look at the 10 commandments. We aim to follow almost all of them, with the exception of the law relating to the Sabbath, because that law is a ritualistic law. The other 9 laws are moral laws, and we are obligated to try and follow them.

Additionally, we look at the judicial laws not to create current law, but to see what was made illegal and the reasoning for it. If the reasoning is not exclusive to Israel, we tend to believe it is immoral. For example, witchcraft is banned in the Old Testament. While we aren't going to execute witches, because the judicial portion is abrogated, we do believe the command to not practice witchcraft is eternal.

I hope that helps a little bit.

PERFECTLY clear.
You get to pick and choose what you want to believe.
We all get it, why don't you?

We aren't picking and choosing. We are following the traditional precedent set in Jewish law, that Jewish law applies only to those who are Jewish - it does not apply to Gentiles. We don't 'choose' to flat-out reject the ritualistic aspect of Judaism, we are simply following the command of Jesus on that matter.
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.

The ban on adultery - any sexual relations outside a one-man, one-woman marriage - is a moral law, reiterated by Jesus as well as being one of the Seven Laws of Noah.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/16/2013 1:20:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 12:47:15 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 12:34:46 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.
No one's in anyone's bedroom. Do you have any more "original" thoughts?
You are all so very afraid aren't you.
So I guess you don't have any original thoughts.

Afraid of hell...
And how!

afraid of sin...
Some sins more than others...

afraid of homosexuals...
Why would anyone we afraid of a poof?

afraid of other religions...
Well, we can't both be afraid of our God and of other religions...

but most of all afraid of your GOD.
For shizzle!

What a life.
I know! It's great, it has meaning!

*********************************************

At 7/16/2013 12:57:02 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.
The ban on adultery - any sexual relations outside a one-man, one-woman marriage - is a moral law, reiterated by Jesus as well as being one of the Seven Laws of Noah.
How dare you respond reasonably and with civility? /*end sarcasm/
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/16/2013 1:31:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 12:57:02 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 12:15:48 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2013 11:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/16/2013 10:11:50 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/15/2013 8:26:46 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hi all,

I am confused, I see most Christians believe they are saved, and they seem to understand they do not need to keep the commands in the OT!

But Jesus stresses on the importance of keeping the commands, for he who doesn't keep the commands doesn't love Jesus, nor does he love God!

He himself kept the commands of God so much that God loved him, and he happens to be the way, so how can you leave the way and hope to get to the destination ?!

55 and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep;John 8 YLT

Because we believe those laws were handed down specifically for the Jewish people. In fact, in many regards the Jewish people would agree on this; rather than trying to convert people and get them to follow Jewish law, they instead encourage everyone to follow the Seven Laws of Noah. In Jewish theology, the laws of Noah were given to all of mankind, while the laws of Israel were given to only Israel. Jewish theology asserts that any gentile who follows the laws of Noah will have a place in the 'world to come'.

Now, we Christians believe that Jesus came to fulfill the Jewish laws. We do not follow the ritualistic laws, because we believe these to have been abolished and replaced. We do not follow the judicial laws, because those applied specifically (and only) to Israel. We do follow the moral laws, because the principle of those laws is eternal. To give an example, let's look at the 10 commandments. We aim to follow almost all of them, with the exception of the law relating to the Sabbath, because that law is a ritualistic law. The other 9 laws are moral laws, and we are obligated to try and follow them.

Additionally, we look at the judicial laws not to create current law, but to see what was made illegal and the reasoning for it. If the reasoning is not exclusive to Israel, we tend to believe it is immoral. For example, witchcraft is banned in the Old Testament. While we aren't going to execute witches, because the judicial portion is abrogated, we do believe the command to not practice witchcraft is eternal.

I hope that helps a little bit.

PERFECTLY clear.
You get to pick and choose what you want to believe.
We all get it, why don't you?

We aren't picking and choosing. We are following the traditional precedent set in Jewish law, that Jewish law applies only to those who are Jewish - it does not apply to Gentiles. We don't 'choose' to flat-out reject the ritualistic aspect of Judaism, we are simply following the command of Jesus on that matter.
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.

The ban on adultery - any sexual relations outside a one-man, one-woman marriage - is a moral law, reiterated by Jesus as well as being one of the Seven Laws of Noah.

Where did jesus say that? 7 laws of noah, are you picking and choosing again. What are those seven laws?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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7/16/2013 1:33:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.

No. It's still sin. Anyone that doesn't accept Christ will be judged according to the law. That's not something Christians just made up. That's Bible.

Also, there is a distinct difference between calling something an abomination and saying if someone does this sin, do this to them.

The first is an opinion, specifically of God. The second is a judgement. Just because the judgement changes, does not mean God's opinion of sin changes. He just has different ways of doing things at different times. The law was not meant to be the end. The law was meant to show us how inadequate we are to fulfill God's law and why we need Christ.

God will forgive anyone that confesses and repents of their sin, but you have to agree with him first about what He determines to be sin.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/16/2013 2:04:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 1:33:32 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 7/16/2013 12:18:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
That makes adultery and homosexuality quite OK then. So just get out of peoples bedrooms.

No. It's still sin. Anyone that doesn't accept Christ will be judged according to the law. That's not something Christians just made up. That's Bible.

Also, there is a distinct difference between calling something an abomination and saying if someone does this sin, do this to them.

The first is an opinion, specifically of God. The second is a judgement. Just because the judgement changes, does not mean God's opinion of sin changes. He just has different ways of doing things at different times. The law was not meant to be the end. The law was meant to show us how inadequate we are to fulfill God's law and why we need Christ.

God will forgive anyone that confesses and repents of their sin, but you have to agree with him first about what He determines to be sin.

The judgement is the word of god, you surely don't get to change that and Jesus sure as hell didn't. You are bearing false witness, as heinous a sin as homosexuality.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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7/16/2013 2:09:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 2:04:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
The judgement is the word of god, you surely don't get to change that and Jesus sure as hell didn't. You are bearing false witness, as heinous a sin as homosexuality.

You're actually correct about the false witness. I agree with that statement.

But Jesus is the Son of God and his record of himself was true as well as the Father's record of him. Also, his duty was the will of his Father, so if He fulfilled the law and did away with it, and established a new covenant, He did so at the command of his Father. So...yes. He did.