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The God of the Bible - Evil and hypocritical.

Picard
Posts: 54
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7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

Thou shall not kill - a fair rule, but broken by God on at least 2.3 million people in the Bible alone. If you go on the assumption that everything happens because God commands it so, then anyone who has ever died has died because of God. Meaning God has killed at least 2,238,000,000,000,000 people (Best estimate atm) and that is just humans!

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?

(Just FYI I am not going to go into the whole argument of God doesn't exist, I do not find it rational to believe that he does. Hypothetically, if he did exist, why worship him?)
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/19/2013 7:15:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hahaha, "thou" is you, not "I", God is the creator not the creature!

Why do you want this command to be pointing to God, He gives life and takes it back, He is in All his right, when you kill, you kill a person you have no right on, you would kill His property!! you work is then evil.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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7/19/2013 8:16:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is there some sort of sign up sheet somewhere for you guys to make these posts? I've seen this exact line of questioning about three times since I started here two weeks ago.

My responses are here:
http://www.debate.org...

and here:
http://www.debate.org...

Explaining the law, God, who He is, why He did what He did, who Jesus Christ is and why He had to die for our sins and what that means to us and how we have to accept him.

The question is, if God is such a terrible monster of a God, but He gave you a way out, why do you sit back and poke at him with sticks instead of getting away from his wrath.

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Jegory
Posts: 21
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7/19/2013 9:03:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM, Picard wrote:
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

When Jesus died, God created a new covenant with mankind. The old order was swept away, replaced with Jesus' sacrifice for us.

Thou shall not kill - a fair rule, but broken by God on at least 2.3 million people in the Bible alone. If you go on the assumption that everything happens because God commands it so, then anyone who has ever died has died because of God. Meaning God has killed at least 2,238,000,000,000,000 people (Best estimate atm) and that is just humans!

I'm referring to the bold portion here.

Nope! God gave us free will, meaning we could operate free of his control.

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

1) Again, God gave us free will.

2) Imagine you are a parent. (I don't know if you are or not, just imagine anyway.) Imagine you have two kids, you love them with all your heart; how would you feel if they didn't respect you? How would you feel if they didn't love you?

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?

Like what?

(Just FYI I am not going to go into the whole argument of God doesn't exist, I do not find it rational to believe that he does. Hypothetically, if he did exist, why worship him?)

This time, imagine you are a child. Your parents have given you life and have looked after you since you were born; the least you can do is to return that favour by loving and respecting them.
Jegory
Jegory
Posts: 21
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7/19/2013 9:05:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 9:03:00 AM, Jegory wrote:
At 7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM, Picard wrote:
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

When Jesus died, God created a new covenant with mankind. The old order was swept away, replaced with Jesus' sacrifice for us.

Thou shall not kill - a fair rule, but broken by God on at least 2.3 million people in the Bible alone. If you go on the assumption that everything happens because God commands it so, then anyone who has ever died has died because of God. Meaning God has killed at least 2,238,000,000,000,000 people (Best estimate atm) and that is just humans!

I'm referring to the bold portion here.

Nope! God gave us free will, meaning we could operate free of his control.

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

1) Again, God gave us free will.

2) Imagine you are a parent. (I don't know if you are or not, just imagine anyway.) Imagine you have two kids, you love them with all your heart; how would you feel if they didn't respect you? How would you feel if they didn't love you?

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?

Like what?

And, like Fruitytree pointed out, the Ten Commandments are rules for us, not God.

(Just FYI I am not going to go into the whole argument of God doesn't exist, I do not find it rational to believe that he does. Hypothetically, if he did exist, why worship him?)

This time, imagine you are a child. Your parents have given you life and have looked after you since you were born; the least you can do is to return that favour by loving and respecting them.
Jegory
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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7/19/2013 9:07:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 8:16:28 AM, Naysayer wrote:
Is there some sort of sign up sheet somewhere for you guys to make these posts? I've seen this exact line of questioning about three times since I started here two weeks ago.

My responses are here:
http://www.debate.org...

and here:
http://www.debate.org...

Explaining the law, God, who He is, why He did what He did, who Jesus Christ is and why He had to die for our sins and what that means to us and how we have to accept him.

The question is, if God is such a terrible monster of a God, but He gave you a way out, why do you sit back and poke at him with sticks instead of getting away from his wrath.

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Perhaps because we aren't the cowards who back down to a bully.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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7/19/2013 9:47:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 9:07:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
The question is, if God is such a terrible monster of a God, but He gave you a way out, why do you sit back and poke at him with sticks instead of getting away from his wrath.

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Perhaps because we aren't the cowards who back down to a bully.

Perhaps because you already serve a god a little less demanding.
Picard
Posts: 54
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7/22/2013 1:37:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 7:15:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hahaha, "thou" is you, not "I", God is the creator not the creature!

Why do you want this command to be pointing to God, He gives life and takes it back, He is in All his right, when you kill, you kill a person you have no right on, you would kill His property!! you work is then evil.

So God does not have to follow any rules, he can do what he likes because he is more powerful than us and we fear him?
Picard
Posts: 54
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7/22/2013 1:42:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 9:03:00 AM, Jegory wrote:
At 7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM, Picard wrote:
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

When Jesus died, God created a new covenant with mankind. The old order was swept away, replaced with Jesus' sacrifice for us.

Thou shall not kill - a fair rule, but broken by God on at least 2.3 million people in the Bible alone. If you go on the assumption that everything happens because God commands it so, then anyone who has ever died has died because of God. Meaning God has killed at least 2,238,000,000,000,000 people (Best estimate atm) and that is just humans!

I'm referring to the bold portion here.

Nope! God gave us free will, meaning we could operate free of his control.

GOD gave us free will? If we are all creations of his then he created us to kill, surely?

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

1) Again, God gave us free will.

2) Imagine you are a parent. (I don't know if you are or not, just imagine anyway.) Imagine you have two kids, you love them with all your heart; how would you feel if they didn't respect you? How would you feel if they didn't love you?

Yes, I would be hurt if my children didn't love or respect me, but I am not so petty that I would torture and kill them for this!

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?


Like what?


There is a whole collection of examples, it is commonly known as The Bible.

(Just FYI I am not going to go into the whole argument of God doesn't exist, I do not find it rational to believe that he does. Hypothetically, if he did exist, why worship him?)

This time, imagine you are a child. Your parents have given you life and have looked after you since you were born; the least you can do is to return that favour by loving and respecting them.

If my parents were evil, petty, murderers then I would have no respect for them, they gave me life but I do not have to respect them for that. If they are evil beings then I would not look up to them in any way.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/22/2013 8:00:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 1:37:02 PM, Picard wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:15:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hahaha, "thou" is you, not "I", God is the creator not the creature!

Why do you want this command to be pointing to God, He gives life and takes it back, He is in All his right, when you kill, you kill a person you have no right on, you would kill His property!! you work is then evil.

So God does not have to follow any rules, he can do what he likes because he is more powerful than us and we fear him?

There is nothing comparable to Him, He has his Morals, and He made us and our Morals. are we equal with Him?!! sure not, we don't own our lives, we were given all we have, and the One Who give us everything expect us to behave, it just makes a sense! you can also refuse and get the consequences; up to you.Not all of us fear God, only people who know God fear Him, they are called believers.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/22/2013 8:05:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 1:42:11 PM, Picard wrote:
At 7/19/2013 9:03:00 AM, Jegory wrote:
At 7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM, Picard wrote:
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

When Jesus died, God created a new covenant with mankind. The old order was swept away, replaced with Jesus' sacrifice for us.

Thou shall not kill - a fair rule, but broken by God on at least 2.3 million people in the Bible alone. If you go on the assumption that everything happens because God commands it so, then anyone who has ever died has died because of God. Meaning God has killed at least 2,238,000,000,000,000 people (Best estimate atm) and that is just humans!

I'm referring to the bold portion here.

Nope! God gave us free will, meaning we could operate free of his control.

GOD gave us free will? If we are all creations of his then he created us to kill, surely?

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

1) Again, God gave us free will.

2) Imagine you are a parent. (I don't know if you are or not, just imagine anyway.) Imagine you have two kids, you love them with all your heart; how would you feel if they didn't respect you? How would you feel if they didn't love you?

Yes, I would be hurt if my children didn't love or respect me, but I am not so petty that I would torture and kill them for this!

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?


Like what?


There is a whole collection of examples, it is commonly known as The Bible.

(Just FYI I am not going to go into the whole argument of God doesn't exist, I do not find it rational to believe that he does. Hypothetically, if he did exist, why worship him?)

This time, imagine you are a child. Your parents have given you life and have looked after you since you were born; the least you can do is to return that favour by loving and respecting them.

If my parents were evil, petty, murderers then I would have no respect for them, they gave me life but I do not have to respect them for that. If they are evil beings then I would not look up to them in any way.

It's wrong to compare God to your parents, your parents don't own you they had you as a gift, God owns you and your parents and the oxygen you breath, He is not your Dad, He is your owner, only if you are a good servant you will be saved!
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/22/2013 8:32:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.

God sounds suspiciously like someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

He creates people to worship him and claims to be all knowing and all powerful. Narcissists also make extreme claims about their abilities and demand extreme admiration from others. Sometimes he gets into huge rages and does aweful things.

For example, he flooded the earth, killed a bunch of people after the Golden calf incident, had Israel kill the Canaanites who did not worship him, punished all of humanity because Adam and Eve disobeyed him, fired Moses after he said something smart, killed thousands of Egyptians and ruined many others because their king was stubborn to him, and he gave Israel a plague after David was haughty once.

This is something people with this disorder do.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/22/2013 8:34:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 8:05:14 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 1:42:11 PM, Picard wrote:
At 7/19/2013 9:03:00 AM, Jegory wrote:
At 7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM, Picard wrote:
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

When Jesus died, God created a new covenant with mankind. The old order was swept away, replaced with Jesus' sacrifice for us.

Thou shall not kill - a fair rule, but broken by God on at least 2.3 million people in the Bible alone. If you go on the assumption that everything happens because God commands it so, then anyone who has ever died has died because of God. Meaning God has killed at least 2,238,000,000,000,000 people (Best estimate atm) and that is just humans!

I'm referring to the bold portion here.

Nope! God gave us free will, meaning we could operate free of his control.

GOD gave us free will? If we are all creations of his then he created us to kill, surely?

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

1) Again, God gave us free will.

2) Imagine you are a parent. (I don't know if you are or not, just imagine anyway.) Imagine you have two kids, you love them with all your heart; how would you feel if they didn't respect you? How would you feel if they didn't love you?

Yes, I would be hurt if my children didn't love or respect me, but I am not so petty that I would torture and kill them for this!

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?


Like what?


There is a whole collection of examples, it is commonly known as The Bible.

(Just FYI I am not going to go into the whole argument of God doesn't exist, I do not find it rational to believe that he does. Hypothetically, if he did exist, why worship him?)

This time, imagine you are a child. Your parents have given you life and have looked after you since you were born; the least you can do is to return that favour by loving and respecting them.

If my parents were evil, petty, murderers then I would have no respect for them, they gave me life but I do not have to respect them for that. If they are evil beings then I would not look up to them in any way.

It's wrong to compare God to your parents, your parents don't own you they had you as a gift, God owns you and your parents and the oxygen you breath, He is not your Dad, He is your owner, only if you are a good servant you will be saved!

I would think that if your parents were evil, petty, and murderers then you should have no respect for them no matter how much of you they own.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/22/2013 8:35:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 8:32:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.

God sounds suspiciously like someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

He creates people to worship him and claims to be all knowing and all powerful. Narcissists also make extreme claims about their abilities and demand extreme admiration from others. Sometimes he gets into huge rages and does aweful things.

For example, he flooded the earth, killed a bunch of people after the Golden calf incident, had Israel kill the Canaanites who did not worship him, punished all of humanity because Adam and Eve disobeyed him, fired Moses after he said something smart, killed thousands of Egyptians and ruined many others because their king was stubborn to him, and he gave Israel a plague after David was haughty once.

This is something people with this disorder do.

Except that God is not one of us, and narcissism wouldn't be a disorder for Him. it would be for you cause you have no right over people, He has all rights reserved!
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/22/2013 8:39:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 8:00:08 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 1:37:02 PM, Picard wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:15:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hahaha, "thou" is you, not "I", God is the creator not the creature!

Why do you want this command to be pointing to God, He gives life and takes it back, He is in All his right, when you kill, you kill a person you have no right on, you would kill His property!! you work is then evil.

So God does not have to follow any rules, he can do what he likes because he is more powerful than us and we fear him?

There is nothing comparable to Him, He has his Morals, and He made us and our Morals. are we equal with Him?!! sure not, we don't own our lives, we were given all we have, and the One Who give us everything expect us to behave, it just makes a sense! you can also refuse and get the consequences; up to you.Not all of us fear God, only people who know God fear Him, they are called believers.

I can't believe that. Thou shalt not commit adultery is not a moral that is only true for some people, it is something universal that is true for everything including God. That is what objective morality is all about. Loving your enemies is not a moral that is there for only some people to follow. It is a universal truth that should be followed by everyone including God.

For God to follow these wonderful truths does not debase him. Maybe it would debase a selfish evil God. For a God who is good, following these truths only demonstrates his greatness.

So this horrible idea that the morals we know doesn't apply to everyone, and doesn't apply to God is a terrible lie.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/22/2013 8:49:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 8:35:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:32:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.

God sounds suspiciously like someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

He creates people to worship him and claims to be all knowing and all powerful. Narcissists also make extreme claims about their abilities and demand extreme admiration from others. Sometimes he gets into huge rages and does aweful things.

For example, he flooded the earth, killed a bunch of people after the Golden calf incident, had Israel kill the Canaanites who did not worship him, punished all of humanity because Adam and Eve disobeyed him, fired Moses after he said something smart, killed thousands of Egyptians and ruined many others because their king was stubborn to him, and he gave Israel a plague after David was haughty once.

This is something people with this disorder do.

Except that God is not one of us, and narcissism wouldn't be a disorder for Him. it would be for you cause you have no right over people, He has all rights reserved!

I can't agree with you. Nobody has the right to right to rape other people. Not even God. Nobody has the right to torture others for pleasure not even God. I know a family in which the husband has the disorder. It is tearing that family apart.

This disorder is no joke. The horrible things that this disorder encourages some people to do cannot be condoned for anyone. Not even God. In fact the more powerful the person, the more harm this disorder will cause to the people around them.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/22/2013 8:54:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 9:03:00 AM, Jegory wrote:
At 7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM, Picard wrote:
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

When Jesus died, God created a new covenant with mankind. The old order was swept away, replaced with Jesus' sacrifice for us.

So something can be right at some time, and then wrong at another. In my view, either it is an eye for an eye, or it is turn the other cheek. It doesn't matter if it is 1000 BC, or 1000 AD.

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

1) Again, God gave us free will.

2) Imagine you are a parent. (I don't know if you are or not, just imagine anyway.) Imagine you have two kids, you love them with all your heart; how would you feel if they didn't respect you? How would you feel if they didn't love you?

Agreed. We should respect God. But should we worship him? Would you demand worship from your children for all you have done for them?

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?

Like what?

What about killing the firstborn because of what Pharaoh did?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/22/2013 8:59:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 8:49:40 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:35:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:32:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.

God sounds suspiciously like someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

He creates people to worship him and claims to be all knowing and all powerful. Narcissists also make extreme claims about their abilities and demand extreme admiration from others. Sometimes he gets into huge rages and does aweful things.

For example, he flooded the earth, killed a bunch of people after the Golden calf incident, had Israel kill the Canaanites who did not worship him, punished all of humanity because Adam and Eve disobeyed him, fired Moses after he said something smart, killed thousands of Egyptians and ruined many others because their king was stubborn to him, and he gave Israel a plague after David was haughty once.

This is something people with this disorder do.

Except that God is not one of us, and narcissism wouldn't be a disorder for Him. it would be for you cause you have no right over people, He has all rights reserved!

I can't agree with you. Nobody has the right to right to rape other people. Not even God. Nobody has the right to torture others for pleasure not even God. I know a family in which the husband has the disorder. It is tearing that family apart.

This disorder is no joke. The horrible things that this disorder encourages some people to do cannot be condoned for anyone. Not even God. In fact the more powerful the person, the more harm this disorder will cause to the people around them.

Well for God, we are not "other" people. we are His people , His very thing that He made, He is giving us what He wants to give us, and We can give Him nothing back, we merely can thank Him!
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/22/2013 9:47:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 8:59:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:49:40 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:35:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:32:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.

God sounds suspiciously like someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

He creates people to worship him and claims to be all knowing and all powerful. Narcissists also make extreme claims about their abilities and demand extreme admiration from others. Sometimes he gets into huge rages and does aweful things.

For example, he flooded the earth, killed a bunch of people after the Golden calf incident, had Israel kill the Canaanites who did not worship him, punished all of humanity because Adam and Eve disobeyed him, fired Moses after he said something smart, killed thousands of Egyptians and ruined many others because their king was stubborn to him, and he gave Israel a plague after David was haughty once.

This is something people with this disorder do.

Except that God is not one of us, and narcissism wouldn't be a disorder for Him. it would be for you cause you have no right over people, He has all rights reserved!

I can't agree with you. Nobody has the right to right to rape other people. Not even God. Nobody has the right to torture others for pleasure not even God. I know a family in which the husband has the disorder. It is tearing that family apart.

This disorder is no joke. The horrible things that this disorder encourages some people to do cannot be condoned for anyone. Not even God. In fact the more powerful the person, the more harm this disorder will cause to the people around them.

Well for God, we are not "other" people. we are His people , His very thing that He made, He is giving us what He wants to give us, and We can give Him nothing back, we merely can thank Him!

According to God we are his people, but that doesn't mean that God can do any evil he desires to us. He is too good for that. A good God would follow the same objective morals that everyone else tries to follow. Thats the kind of God I would look up to. I wouldn't worship him because a good God wouldn't like that, but I would greatly respect him.
Picard
Posts: 54
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7/23/2013 1:55:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 8:00:08 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 1:37:02 PM, Picard wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:15:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hahaha, "thou" is you, not "I", God is the creator not the creature!

Why do you want this command to be pointing to God, He gives life and takes it back, He is in All his right, when you kill, you kill a person you have no right on, you would kill His property!! you work is then evil.

So God does not have to follow any rules, he can do what he likes because he is more powerful than us and we fear him?

There is nothing comparable to Him, He has his Morals, and He made us and our Morals. are we equal with Him?!! sure not, we don't own our lives, we were given all we have, and the One Who give us everything expect us to behave, it just makes a sense! you can also refuse and get the consequences; up to you.Not all of us fear God, only people who know God fear Him, they are called believers.

You fear God? Why? If he is all-knowing, all-loving as the Bible claims then surely there is nothing to fear from him.

What you are referring to, by talking of ownership of people, is slavery, divine 'rights' or not, it is slavery. If you had any logic or reason, or even morals in you, then you would not worship this being, he has done many horrible atrocities, killed people you love, condemned countless souls to eternal damnation because they weren't the mindless sheep that he expected.

If the God of the Bible does exist, then I would rather face eternal damnation than worship him.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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7/23/2013 3:06:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 1:55:40 AM, Picard wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:00:08 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 1:37:02 PM, Picard wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:15:35 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Hahaha, "thou" is you, not "I", God is the creator not the creature!

Why do you want this command to be pointing to God, He gives life and takes it back, He is in All his right, when you kill, you kill a person you have no right on, you would kill His property!! you work is then evil.

So God does not have to follow any rules, he can do what he likes because he is more powerful than us and we fear him?

There is nothing comparable to Him, He has his Morals, and He made us and our Morals. are we equal with Him?!! sure not, we don't own our lives, we were given all we have, and the One Who give us everything expect us to behave, it just makes a sense! you can also refuse and get the consequences; up to you.Not all of us fear God, only people who know God fear Him, they are called believers.

You fear God? Why? If he is all-knowing, all-loving as the Bible claims then surely there is nothing to fear from him.

What you are referring to, by talking of ownership of people, is slavery, divine 'rights' or not, it is slavery. If you had any logic or reason, or even morals in you, then you would not worship this being, he has done many horrible atrocities, killed people you love, condemned countless souls to eternal damnation because they weren't the mindless sheep that he expected.

If the God of the Bible does exist, then I would rather face eternal damnation than worship him.

HUZZAH!!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/23/2013 4:40:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 9:47:58 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:59:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:49:40 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:35:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:32:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.

God sounds suspiciously like someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

He creates people to worship him and claims to be all knowing and all powerful. Narcissists also make extreme claims about their abilities and demand extreme admiration from others. Sometimes he gets into huge rages and does aweful things.

For example, he flooded the earth, killed a bunch of people after the Golden calf incident, had Israel kill the Canaanites who did not worship him, punished all of humanity because Adam and Eve disobeyed him, fired Moses after he said something smart, killed thousands of Egyptians and ruined many others because their king was stubborn to him, and he gave Israel a plague after David was haughty once.

This is something people with this disorder do.

Except that God is not one of us, and narcissism wouldn't be a disorder for Him. it would be for you cause you have no right over people, He has all rights reserved!

I can't agree with you. Nobody has the right to right to rape other people. Not even God. Nobody has the right to torture others for pleasure not even God. I know a family in which the husband has the disorder. It is tearing that family apart.

This disorder is no joke. The horrible things that this disorder encourages some people to do cannot be condoned for anyone. Not even God. In fact the more powerful the person, the more harm this disorder will cause to the people around them.

Well for God, we are not "other" people. we are His people , His very thing that He made, He is giving us what He wants to give us, and We can give Him nothing back, we merely can thank Him!

According to God we are his people, but that doesn't mean that God can do any evil he desires to us. He is too good for that. A good God would follow the same objective morals that everyone else tries to follow. Thats the kind of God I would look up to. I wouldn't worship him because a good God wouldn't like that, but I would greatly respect him.

The truth is He can, and whatever He does is not "evil" for we're His property, and He does not oppress, He made this life for test, and next life for true Justice.

I need to show you that God Morals cannot be like ours, God is infinite, immortal, it is immoral that He mates or begets progeny. and He doesn't.

You are Mortal, it is Moral that you beget Progeny.

God is the owner of life, it is moral that He takes it away, or test his people whether with good or evil.

You don't own anything , you don't have the right to take any life, not even your own (the life you're renting).
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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7/23/2013 5:25:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 4:40:31 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 9:47:58 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:59:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:49:40 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:35:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:32:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.

God sounds suspiciously like someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

He creates people to worship him and claims to be all knowing and all powerful. Narcissists also make extreme claims about their abilities and demand extreme admiration from others. Sometimes he gets into huge rages and does aweful things.

For example, he flooded the earth, killed a bunch of people after the Golden calf incident, had Israel kill the Canaanites who did not worship him, punished all of humanity because Adam and Eve disobeyed him, fired Moses after he said something smart, killed thousands of Egyptians and ruined many others because their king was stubborn to him, and he gave Israel a plague after David was haughty once.

This is something people with this disorder do.

Except that God is not one of us, and narcissism wouldn't be a disorder for Him. it would be for you cause you have no right over people, He has all rights reserved!

I can't agree with you. Nobody has the right to right to rape other people. Not even God. Nobody has the right to torture others for pleasure not even God. I know a family in which the husband has the disorder. It is tearing that family apart.

This disorder is no joke. The horrible things that this disorder encourages some people to do cannot be condoned for anyone. Not even God. In fact the more powerful the person, the more harm this disorder will cause to the people around them.

Well for God, we are not "other" people. we are His people , His very thing that He made, He is giving us what He wants to give us, and We can give Him nothing back, we merely can thank Him!

According to God we are his people, but that doesn't mean that God can do any evil he desires to us. He is too good for that. A good God would follow the same objective morals that everyone else tries to follow. Thats the kind of God I would look up to. I wouldn't worship him because a good God wouldn't like that, but I would greatly respect him.

The truth is He can, and whatever He does is not "evil" for we're His property, and He does not oppress, He made this life for test, and next life for true Justice.
There is no testing going on here. Your god wrote your story before creation, you are only acting out what he has written.If your god wrote before creation that you would finish in hell, then there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. You will make the exact decisions your god wrote you will make and that will result in you going to hell. The converse is also true, but the simple fact of your religion's teachings is that the results of this so called test were in before creation.
I need to show you that God Morals cannot be like ours, God is infinite, immortal, it is immoral that He mates or begets progeny. and He doesn't.
Why would that be immoral for a mass murdering rapist?
You are Mortal, it is Moral that you beget Progeny.
So therefore immoral if your god made you sterile?
God is the owner of life, it is moral that He takes it away, or test his people whether with good or evil.
There is no test, you can't change what your god knows. He doesn't own my life.
You don't own anything , you don't have the right to take any life, not even your own (the life you're renting).
I'll take my life when and if I desire too, as I said your god doesn't own it. But if he wrote, before creation, that you will take your life then you have no say in it anyway, you will.
Picard
Posts: 54
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7/23/2013 7:24:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 4:40:31 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 9:47:58 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:59:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:49:40 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:35:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/22/2013 8:32:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:20:27 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
About the jealousy part, this has to do with the purpose of creation, if He created us so we worship him, and we worship the creation instead, then we're not serving the purpose.

God sounds suspiciously like someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

He creates people to worship him and claims to be all knowing and all powerful. Narcissists also make extreme claims about their abilities and demand extreme admiration from others. Sometimes he gets into huge rages and does aweful things.

For example, he flooded the earth, killed a bunch of people after the Golden calf incident, had Israel kill the Canaanites who did not worship him, punished all of humanity because Adam and Eve disobeyed him, fired Moses after he said something smart, killed thousands of Egyptians and ruined many others because their king was stubborn to him, and he gave Israel a plague after David was haughty once.

This is something people with this disorder do.

Except that God is not one of us, and narcissism wouldn't be a disorder for Him. it would be for you cause you have no right over people, He has all rights reserved!

I can't agree with you. Nobody has the right to right to rape other people. Not even God. Nobody has the right to torture others for pleasure not even God. I know a family in which the husband has the disorder. It is tearing that family apart.

This disorder is no joke. The horrible things that this disorder encourages some people to do cannot be condoned for anyone. Not even God. In fact the more powerful the person, the more harm this disorder will cause to the people around them.

Well for God, we are not "other" people. we are His people , His very thing that He made, He is giving us what He wants to give us, and We can give Him nothing back, we merely can thank Him!

According to God we are his people, but that doesn't mean that God can do any evil he desires to us. He is too good for that. A good God would follow the same objective morals that everyone else tries to follow. Thats the kind of God I would look up to. I wouldn't worship him because a good God wouldn't like that, but I would greatly respect him.

The truth is He can, and whatever He does is not "evil" for we're His property, and He does not oppress, He made this life for test, and next life for true Justice.

I need to show you that God Morals cannot be like ours, God is infinite, immortal, it is immoral that He mates or begets progeny. and He doesn't.

You are Mortal, it is Moral that you beget Progeny.

God is the owner of life, it is moral that He takes it away, or test his people whether with good or evil.

You don't own anything , you don't have the right to take any life, not even your own (the life you're renting).

You remind me of something I once heard -

Arguing with a religious person is like playing chess with a pigeon.

You can be the best player in the world but they will knock over all the pieces, take a sh*t in the middle of the board and stand there triumphantly.

--- You cannot be reasoned with. If everything you are saying is true then why do you worship God? Out of Fear? Out of Admiration for his evil deeds? Please tell me.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,505
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7/23/2013 7:47:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM, Picard wrote:
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

Thou shall not kill - a fair rule, but broken by God on at least 2.3 million people in the Bible alone. If you go on the assumption that everything happens because God commands it so, then anyone who has ever died has died because of God. Meaning God has killed at least 2,238,000,000,000,000 people (Best estimate atm) and that is just humans!

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?

(Just FYI I am not going to go into the whole argument of God doesn't exist, I do not find it rational to believe that he does. Hypothetically, if he did exist, why worship him?)

So why is any of this a problem? You seem to think something is wrong here - on what basis? What makes you think it should be different?
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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7/23/2013 7:52:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:47:31 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/19/2013 5:29:26 AM, Picard wrote:
In the old testament of the Bible, God gives 10 commandments to be followed, breaking any of these commandments is typically punishable by death and/or eternal damnation.

Thou shall not kill - a fair rule, but broken by God on at least 2.3 million people in the Bible alone. If you go on the assumption that everything happens because God commands it so, then anyone who has ever died has died because of God. Meaning God has killed at least 2,238,000,000,000,000 people (Best estimate atm) and that is just humans!

Next, God devotes 4 of his ten commandments to himself.
You shall have no other Gods but me.
You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Now, if God is omnipotent, then why is he so petty and insecure? If he existed and was all-powerful then not only would he not need the commandments, but he would not have the need to be worshipped and loved.

There are many, many more examples of pettiness, greed and bigotry shown by God. If God is not able to follow his own rules, and if he is even less perfect than his creations, why should he be worshipped?

(Just FYI I am not going to go into the whole argument of God doesn't exist, I do not find it rational to believe that he does. Hypothetically, if he did exist, why worship him?)

So why is any of this a problem? You seem to think something is wrong here - on what basis? What makes you think it should be different?
You see no contradiction in an infinite entity being insecure and jealous? Are you serious?
v3nesl
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7/23/2013 8:13:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:52:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
...
You see no contradiction in an infinite entity being insecure and jealous? Are you serious?

That's not the question. Think of it like a legal issue - when you write a contract you specific in which state disputes will be litigated. So, what is your standing for filing a complaint against God? Is it just your feelings, nothing more?
This space for rent.
bulproof
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7/23/2013 8:34:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 8:13:58 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:52:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
...
You see no contradiction in an infinite entity being insecure and jealous? Are you serious?

That's not the question. Think of it like a legal issue - when you write a contract you specific in which state disputes will be litigated. So, what is your standing for filing a complaint against God? Is it just your feelings, nothing more?
Has nothing to do with your god's insecurity. Your god is allegedly INFINITE. Do you have any comprehension at all what infinite means? It means ALL. If your god is ALL then what can it possibly be jealous of? And yet your god, according to your book of god, declares itself a jealous god. Can you explain that?
v3nesl
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7/23/2013 8:46:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 8:34:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 8:13:58 AM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:52:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
...
You see no contradiction in an infinite entity being insecure and jealous? Are you serious?

That's not the question. Think of it like a legal issue - when you write a contract you specific in which state disputes will be litigated. So, what is your standing for filing a complaint against God? Is it just your feelings, nothing more?
Has nothing to do with your god's insecurity. Your god is allegedly INFINITE. Do you have any comprehension at all what infinite means? It means ALL.

Actually it doesn't. "All" implies something finite - if you can have all of something, it's a finite something.

If your god is ALL then what can it possibly be jealous of? And yet your god, according to your book of god, declares itself a jealous god. Can you explain that?

Right, so you're entertaining a wrong idea of infinite. For example, if we say that 2/3 expressed in decimal is .66666 to infinity, it means that if you were writing the sixes on the blackboard you could never stop writing them, you will never fully write the fraction in decimal. It's UN-limited, there is no "all" of the sixes. But here's the thing to note: Each six is a six. Six does not lose its finite meaning because it is part of an infinite sequence. And each six is a unique six, each has a precise position in the sequence, that position representable by a real number. So, to try to imagine an infinite God, imagine someone who can care about each individual six in it's unique place in the sequence, can, shall we say, be jealous for that six, even though there is no end to the sequence.

If your head doesn't explode, you're not thinking of infinite.
This space for rent.