Total Posts:95|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

what price Christianity?

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2013 7:01:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

What does the holy ghost explain these passages as meaning and does he explain it identically to all christians?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2013 7:31:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:01:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

What does the holy ghost explain these passages as meaning and does he explain it identically to all christians?

Holy spirit is not needed to explain those passages they are so obvious and self-explanatory. Taken together, they simply say that all who try to follow Christ will have it made very difficult for them by satanically inspired opposition from so many people, often including close family and friends.

Of course, when a family breaks up for those reasons, it is always the Christian who gets the blame, no matter who walked out on whom. After all, Satan knows that if we put anyone or anything before God and Christ then he, Satan, has won in our case.

If holy spirit is used to explain anything, it always explains the same thing the same way to wall it explains them to.

Yet another evidence that so many branches of what call themselves Christianity are actually nothing of the sort.

Only Satan uses his spirit to confuse. God only ever uses holy spirit to clarify.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2013 7:47:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:31:22 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:01:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

What does the holy ghost explain these passages as meaning and does he explain it identically to all christians?

Holy spirit is not needed to explain those passages they are so obvious and self-explanatory. Taken together, they simply say that all who try to follow Christ will have it made very difficult for them by satanically inspired opposition from so many people, often including close family and friends.

Of course, when a family breaks up for those reasons, it is always the Christian who gets the blame, no matter who walked out on whom. After all, Satan knows that if we put anyone or anything before God and Christ then he, Satan, has won in our case.

If holy spirit is used to explain anything, it always explains the same thing the same way to wall it explains them to.

Yet another evidence that so many branches of what call themselves Christianity are actually nothing of the sort.

Only Satan uses his spirit to confuse. God only ever uses holy spirit to clarify.

Ahh so the holy ghost doesn't explain the scriptures to you, you explain them all by yourself. That is contradicting what you've been proclaiming ever since I got here.
Now of course this god who explains the scripture would never get it wrong would he?
Meaning that nothing that he has explained would need to be explained again, yes? And most certainly would not constitute a contradiction to an earlier explanation, yes?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2013 9:21:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 7:47:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:31:22 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:01:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

What does the holy ghost explain these passages as meaning and does he explain it identically to all christians?

Holy spirit is not needed to explain those passages they are so obvious and self-explanatory. Taken together, they simply say that all who try to follow Christ will have it made very difficult for them by satanically inspired opposition from so many people, often including close family and friends.

Of course, when a family breaks up for those reasons, it is always the Christian who gets the blame, no matter who walked out on whom. After all, Satan knows that if we put anyone or anything before God and Christ then he, Satan, has won in our case.

If holy spirit is used to explain anything, it always explains the same thing the same way to wall it explains them to.

Yet another evidence that so many branches of what call themselves Christianity are actually nothing of the sort.

Only Satan uses his spirit to confuse. God only ever uses holy spirit to clarify.

Ahh so the holy ghost doesn't explain the scriptures to you, you explain them all by yourself. That is contradicting what you've been proclaiming ever since I got here.
Now of course this god who explains the scripture would never get it wrong would he?
Meaning that nothing that he has explained would need to be explained again, yes? And most certainly would not constitute a contradiction to an earlier explanation, yes?

you display a complete lack of understanding of holy spirit and how it works. Not only that but you also display a complete inability to listen to what anyone else tells you.

True, once holy spirit has led one to an understanding, it never needs to be changed, and is never wrong. I wish the same could be said for some of the mistakes we make because we're too impatient to wait for God to send us the understanding.

I have described elsewhere. The process used by holy spirit in the case of people like myself. Sometimes you can puzzle over a meaning for ages and then one day you come across, or are guided to another Scripture which explains what you wanted to know. In the first place. It really is a eureka moment, and all of a sudden you are wondering how on earth you could have missed that explanation in the first place. Because once holy spirit has open your mind to it, it becomes so clear and so obvious you wonder why so many can't see it, let alone why you couldn't.

I was slowly, through discussions I have had with some on here beginning to realise why some have not been given the understanding that to me has become so obvious. There are a number of reasons, but in the end most of it boils down to people thinking that they know better than God and Christ.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2013 9:40:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 9:21:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:47:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:31:22 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:01:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

What does the holy ghost explain these passages as meaning and does he explain it identically to all christians?

Holy spirit is not needed to explain those passages they are so obvious and self-explanatory. Taken together, they simply say that all who try to follow Christ will have it made very difficult for them by satanically inspired opposition from so many people, often including close family and friends.

Of course, when a family breaks up for those reasons, it is always the Christian who gets the blame, no matter who walked out on whom. After all, Satan knows that if we put anyone or anything before God and Christ then he, Satan, has won in our case.

If holy spirit is used to explain anything, it always explains the same thing the same way to wall it explains them to.

Yet another evidence that so many branches of what call themselves Christianity are actually nothing of the sort.

Only Satan uses his spirit to confuse. God only ever uses holy spirit to clarify.

Ahh so the holy ghost doesn't explain the scriptures to you, you explain them all by yourself. That is contradicting what you've been proclaiming ever since I got here.
Now of course this god who explains the scripture would never get it wrong would he?
Meaning that nothing that he has explained would need to be explained again, yes? And most certainly would not constitute a contradiction to an earlier explanation, yes?

you display a complete lack of understanding of holy spirit and how it works. Not only that but you also display a complete inability to listen to what anyone else tells you.

True, once holy spirit has led one to an understanding, it never needs to be changed, and is never wrong. I wish the same could be said for some of the mistakes we make because we're too impatient to wait for God to send us the understanding.

I have described elsewhere. The process used by holy spirit in the case of people like myself. Sometimes you can puzzle over a meaning for ages and then one day you come across, or are guided to another Scripture which explains what you wanted to know. In the first place. It really is a eureka moment, and all of a sudden you are wondering how on earth you could have missed that explanation in the first place. Because once holy spirit has open your mind to it, it becomes so clear and so obvious you wonder why so many can't see it, let alone why you couldn't.

I was slowly, through discussions I have had with some on here beginning to realise why some have not been given the understanding that to me has become so obvious. There are a number of reasons, but in the end most of it boils down to people thinking that they know better than God and Christ.
So what is it god has told you about "the generation" in matthew 24:34 (yeah got the passage wrong in another post....oops). Tell me oh enlightened one, or hasn't he bothered enlightening you or the jehovian high priests yet?
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2013 1:08:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy?

No.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2013 1:18:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 9:40:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 9:21:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:47:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:31:22 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/23/2013 7:01:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

What does the holy ghost explain these passages as meaning and does he explain it identically to all christians?

Holy spirit is not needed to explain those passages they are so obvious and self-explanatory. Taken together, they simply say that all who try to follow Christ will have it made very difficult for them by satanically inspired opposition from so many people, often including close family and friends.

Of course, when a family breaks up for those reasons, it is always the Christian who gets the blame, no matter who walked out on whom. After all, Satan knows that if we put anyone or anything before God and Christ then he, Satan, has won in our case.

If holy spirit is used to explain anything, it always explains the same thing the same way to wall it explains them to.

Yet another evidence that so many branches of what call themselves Christianity are actually nothing of the sort.

Only Satan uses his spirit to confuse. God only ever uses holy spirit to clarify.

Ahh so the holy ghost doesn't explain the scriptures to you, you explain them all by yourself. That is contradicting what you've been proclaiming ever since I got here.
Now of course this god who explains the scripture would never get it wrong would he?
Meaning that nothing that he has explained would need to be explained again, yes? And most certainly would not constitute a contradiction to an earlier explanation, yes?

you display a complete lack of understanding of holy spirit and how it works. Not only that but you also display a complete inability to listen to what anyone else tells you.

True, once holy spirit has led one to an understanding, it never needs to be changed, and is never wrong. I wish the same could be said for some of the mistakes we make because we're too impatient to wait for God to send us the understanding.

I have described elsewhere. The process used by holy spirit in the case of people like myself. Sometimes you can puzzle over a meaning for ages and then one day you come across, or are guided to another Scripture which explains what you wanted to know. In the first place. It really is a eureka moment, and all of a sudden you are wondering how on earth you could have missed that explanation in the first place. Because once holy spirit has open your mind to it, it becomes so clear and so obvious you wonder why so many can't see it, let alone why you couldn't.

I was slowly, through discussions I have had with some on here beginning to realise why some have not been given the understanding that to me has become so obvious. There are a number of reasons, but in the end most of it boils down to people thinking that they know better than God and Christ.
So what is it god has told you about "the generation" in matthew 24:34 (yeah got the passage wrong in another post....oops). Tell me oh enlightened one, or hasn't he bothered enlightening you or the jehovian high priests yet?

Lol. I knew what you were talking about anyway, even though you rarely do.

he simply hasn't revealed that yet, and I have a funny feeling he's not going to until it's too late for any to change their minds. I would not be surprised to find you doesn't reveal it until a lot closer to the end.

Why do I say that to?

I tend to think back to the fact that Christ-like and these days to the days before the flood. Jehovah told no what was going to happen gave him instructions to build the Ark. Noah preached to all those lastly, what on earth he was doing. However, the first proof that any were given was when the Ark door was closed and it started to rain.

That is not an inspiration, I would be much more sure of it. If it were, it is purely my guess, but I can't help but wonder about it.

I could be wrong, of course, I believe that too much speculation about it could be, as it has proved in the past, a dangerous thing and a source of error, if that speculation is taken too seriously.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2013 5:54:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
How to Promote Infidelity 101

Part 1: Claim that the Holy Spirit inspired a book meant to convey the will of God to men, and at the same time claim that it is incomprehensible to the average person - unless the Holy Spirit comes along AGAIN and provides additional illumination to "shed some light" on what the Holy Spirit inspired in the first place!

Part 2: Claim that Satan is able to miraculously "veil" or "cloud" people's minds to a correct understanding of a certain passage - until God sees fit for the Holy Spirit to knock along and equally miraculously "enlighten" it.

*****

MCB: "Sometimes you can puzzle over a meaning for ages and then one day you (1) come across, or (2) are guided to another Scripture which explains what you wanted to know. In the first place. It really is a eureka moment, and all of a sudden you are wondering how on earth you could have missed that explanation in the first place.

Anna: That happens in any field of endeavor. It happened to me all the time in organic chemistry. It happened to others as well. Do you notice at the end you said that you wonder "how on earth YOU could have missed it?" Just because YOU quit missing it is no evidence that you were supernaturally guided to it.

MCB: "Because once holy spirit has open your mind to it, it becomes so clear and so obvious you wonder why so many can't see it."

Anna: I thought you just said that you had simply missed it. Now you are saying that "holy spirit" has supernaturally or miraculously guided you to it. In other words, the Holy Spirit made YOU quit missing it! How can you tell whether the Spirit guided you to it from you finding it on your own? That should be interesting!

MCB: "I was slowly, through discussions I have had with some on here beginning to realise why some have not been given the understanding that to me has become so obvious. There are a number of reasons, but in the end most of it boils down to people thinking that they know better than God and Christ."

Anna: I'm not sure - but I think your statement above presupposes that your "understanding" is correct. That's slightly debatable. One of these days, I'm going to count (1) the number of people who went about proclaiming that the time is fulfilled - and the kingdom is at hand and (2) the recorded number of times they said it. The fact is that you flat-out deny every one of them, and one of them was Jesus Christ! You say, "No, I deny your 'interpretation' of it." Sir, I do not have an "interpretation". Anyway, that's just an example.

What about the Christians on here who do not claim that they know more that God or Christ, but simply disagree with your peculiar views?

MCB: "you display a complete lack of understanding of holy spirit and how it works. Not only that but you also display a complete inability to listen to what anyone else tells you."

Anna: Do you not comprehend that telling people that the Holy Spirit "illuminates" or "enlightens" you directly is synonymous with claiming miraculous activity? It's just a "little miracle", sorta. It's just a "revelation" about what God has already revealed.

There is no new revelation. There are no little nudges. The word of God does not require further confirmation nor supernatural illumination: to believe such casts a pretty poor reflection on the Bible.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2013 11:14:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 5:54:07 AM, annanicole wrote:
How to Promote Infidelity 101

Part 1: Claim that the Holy Spirit inspired a book meant to convey the will of God to men, and at the same time claim that it is incomprehensible to the average person - unless the Holy Spirit comes along AGAIN and provides additional illumination to "shed some light" on what the Holy Spirit inspired in the first place!

Part 2: Claim that Satan is able to miraculously "veil" or "cloud" people's minds to a correct understanding of a certain passage - until God sees fit for the Holy Spirit to knock along and equally miraculously "enlighten" it.

*****

MCB: "Sometimes you can puzzle over a meaning for ages and then one day you (1) come across, or (2) are guided to another Scripture which explains what you wanted to know. In the first place. It really is a eureka moment, and all of a sudden you are wondering how on earth you could have missed that explanation in the first place.

Anna: That happens in any field of endeavor. It happened to me all the time in organic chemistry. It happened to others as well. Do you notice at the end you said that you wonder "how on earth YOU could have missed it?" Just because YOU quit missing it is no evidence that you were supernaturally guided to it.

MCB: "Because once holy spirit has open your mind to it, it becomes so clear and so obvious you wonder why so many can't see it."

Anna: I thought you just said that you had simply missed it. Now you are saying that "holy spirit" has supernaturally or miraculously guided you to it. In other words, the Holy Spirit made YOU quit missing it! How can you tell whether the Spirit guided you to it from you finding it on your own? That should be interesting!

MCB: "I was slowly, through discussions I have had with some on here beginning to realise why some have not been given the understanding that to me has become so obvious. There are a number of reasons, but in the end most of it boils down to people thinking that they know better than God and Christ."

Anna: I'm not sure - but I think your statement above presupposes that your "understanding" is correct. That's slightly debatable. One of these days, I'm going to count (1) the number of people who went about proclaiming that the time is fulfilled - and the kingdom is at hand and (2) the recorded number of times they said it. The fact is that you flat-out deny every one of them, and one of them was Jesus Christ! You say, "No, I deny your 'interpretation' of it." Sir, I do not have an "interpretation". Anyway, that's just an example.

What about the Christians on here who do not claim that they know more that God or Christ, but simply disagree with your peculiar views?

MCB: "you display a complete lack of understanding of holy spirit and how it works. Not only that but you also display a complete inability to listen to what anyone else tells you."

Anna: Do you not comprehend that telling people that the Holy Spirit "illuminates" or "enlightens" you directly is synonymous with claiming miraculous activity? It's just a "little miracle", sorta. It's just a "revelation" about what God has already revealed.

There is no new revelation. There are no little nudges. The word of God does not require further confirmation nor supernatural illumination: to believe such casts a pretty poor reflection on the Bible.

of course, it's incomprehensible to the average person. It is incomprehensible even the gods chosen ones until he chooses to open it up. Why would he want Satan to know the details too soon?

That is one thing I really don't know how you cannot understand. God didn't even let Christ know the day in the hour his own son, who even while on earth knew everything he had known in heaven beforehand, yet he wasn't privy to information.

If he can keep things from his own son until he is ready to release it. Why should he not keep things from us?

Also, you ignore the fact that Satan is a very powerful being who is more than capable of blinding the eyes of anyone, to anyone he does not wish to see the truth, as Paul carefully explains.

As I have said there is so much in Scripture you choose to ignore that in itself is one factor.

Why did Christ always teaching illustrations so that, by his own admission, the majority would not understand. Christ was merely imitating his father in that.

Of course, keeping things from Satan is not the only reason for it. If we need to have God's word decoded for us through holy spirit. It allows God to choose who understands it, and to limit that understanding only to those who trust him and his son implicitly.

Why would God and Christ not want to keep control over such important information? Why would they do not want to choose who gets to understand and who doesn't?

In fact, he lets us do the choosing ourselves in a sense. Because he has put the understanding of his word out into the public domain, and he let us choose whether or not we listen to his messengers.

If we are too tied up in our own little worlds to listen, too arrogant to listen, or too well entrapped in Satan's snares to listen with insufficient desire to get out, why on earth should God make even greater efforts that are already being made?

The only way the above would be untrue, would be if universal salvation were applicable, but since that is self-evidently not the case, then yes, it is going to be difficult to understand without assistance.

One only has to remember the Ethiopian eunuch:

Acts 8:26-30 However, Jehovah"s angel spoke to Philip, saying: "Rise and go to the south to the road that runs down from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.) 27 With that he rose and went, and, look! an Ethiopian eunuch, a man in power under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, and who was over all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 but he was returning and was sitting in his chariot and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: "Approach and join yourself to this chariot." 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: "Do you actually know what you are reading?" 31 He said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?" And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him.

That is why Christ has provided the Jehovah's Witnesses to help people understand, but holy spirit is still necessary also. Just as holy spirit was used to instruct Philip, so it is used to instruct Jehovah's Witnesses. Especially in this most urgent time of the end.

Believe it or believe it not it is the truth. And those who turn even the least of the fathers of Christ away will not prosper, as Christ promised.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2013 4:14:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

It's too bad Christians don't know what a saint is. These scriptures are about what sinless saints go through, not a sinner like all Christians are.

Saints are born of God and can't sin anymore. Saints are the only ones who can obey God's commandments.

1 John 2:
3: And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
29: If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that every one who does right is born of him.

1 John 3:
6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.
9: No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

1 John 5:
2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
18: We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2013 5:02:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 4:14:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

It's too bad Christians don't know what a saint is. These scriptures are about what sinless saints go through, not a sinner like all Christians are.

Saints are born of God and can't sin anymore. Saints are the only ones who can obey God's commandments.

1 John 2:
3: And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
29: If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that every one who does right is born of him.

1 John 3:
6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.
9: No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

1 John 5:
2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
18: We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

it appears that you don't know what a saint is either.

The saint is quite simply a holy man. Nothing more nothing less.

And yes the only sure way we can show love for God, as Jesus said we must when he quoted Deuteronomy 6:5 "And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force". Is by obeying his commands, as his son did, and a major way of doing that is to do what Christ told this when he quoted Leviticus 19:18
18 ""You must not take vengeance nor have a grudge against the sons of your people; and you must love your fellow as yourself. I am Jehovah. Matthew 22:34-40 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 He said to him: ""You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind." 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, "You must love your neighbor as yourself." 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets."is.

This was also echoed by James when he said, at James 1:27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.

In fact, the entire letter of James is a very important one for those who wish to follow Christ properly in any age. James speaks of the necessity of relying on God and holy spirit for the wisdom and understanding we need.

He discusses how we need to worship God to be acceptable to him, as the above Scripture shows all he really wants from us as worship is fresh to treat each other properly as humans should. That way we proved that we will be worthy to live in the restored Earth.

He explains that faith without the works to demonstrate that faith is useless, but what does he mean by "works"? Well, what works can display our faith in God and our trust in him? Is it not the works similar to those described at James 1:27? As Paul made very clear. It is certainly not down to works of law.

Do you not believe that Paul was a holy man?

He most certainly was, and he was very clear about the fact that he could still sin.

Romans 7:21-25 I find, then, this law in my case: that when I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I behold in my members+ another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin"s law that is in my members. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with [my] mind I myself am a slave to God"s law, but with [my] flesh to sin"s law.

Yes, no matter how holy, how saintly, we may be we can still sin, and that will continue to be the case, right up until the time when we finally made perfect and have learned to be obedient in that perfect state.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2013 7:01:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "Acts 8:26-30 However, Jehovah"s angel spoke to Philip, saying: "Rise and go to the south to the road that runs down from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.) 27 With that he rose and went, and, look! an Ethiopian eunuch, a man in power under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, and who was over all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 but he was returning and was sitting in his chariot and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: "Approach and join yourself to this chariot." 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: "Do you actually know what you are reading?" 31 He said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?" And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him.

That is why Christ has provided the Jehovah's Witnesses to help people understand, but holy spirit is still necessary also. Just as holy spirit was used to instruct Philip, so it is used to instruct Jehovah's Witnesses. Especially in this most urgent time of the end."

Anna:

1. When the Spirit spoke to Philip, was it a miracle?

2. What new revelation did the Spirit give to Philip?

3. Since you said baptism was a "public symbol of one's dedication", where was the "public"?

4. Do you take as your authority the Bible alone? Or is your authority the Bible, plus additional "modern-day" revelations?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 7:28:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:01:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "Acts 8:26-30 However, Jehovah"s angel spoke to Philip, saying: "Rise and go to the south to the road that runs down from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.) 27 With that he rose and went, and, look! an Ethiopian eunuch, a man in power under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, and who was over all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 but he was returning and was sitting in his chariot and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: "Approach and join yourself to this chariot." 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: "Do you actually know what you are reading?" 31 He said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?" And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him.

That is why Christ has provided the Jehovah's Witnesses to help people understand, but holy spirit is still necessary also. Just as holy spirit was used to instruct Philip, so it is used to instruct Jehovah's Witnesses. Especially in this most urgent time of the end."

Anna:

1. When the Spirit spoke to Philip, was it a miracle?

2. What new revelation did the Spirit give to Philip?

3. Since you said baptism was a "public symbol of one's dedication", where was the "public"?

4. Do you take as your authority the Bible alone? Or is your authority the Bible, plus additional "modern-day" revelations?

1. I guess that depends on what you call a miracle. I would say not, but then I have experienced similar things myself.

2. Unless you count the information as to where to meet the eunuch as a revelation, then none. I guess. Holy spirit isn't used solely for revelations.

3. Scripture does not care less how many people were present at the time, but at the very least there was the chariot driver there, and possibly at least one attendant, considering the importance of the eunuch. It would be very unlikely that such an important man will be travelling alone in dangerous country. However, even one witness is public enough.

4. as always, everything in life, as stated in the law is proven "at the mouth of two, or three, witnesses." I have the combined witness of Scripture and, through holy spirit, God and Christ. I need nothing more. I certainly don't need the words of men, though provided you pick the right men, one is guided by holy spirit, it can give you a good start on the right road.

More often than not, holy spirit will either guide you to the right people, or guide them to your door. Christ may also, as in my case, use rather extreme circumstances to force you to at least look in the right place, after which it is up to you.

I say that last bit because there is no way I would have looked at Jehovah's Witnesses. I too was thoroughly prejudiced against them, mostly by the sort of lies that you and others tell. However, I was, in effect, forced to check on their beliefs by someone who gave me a attract which listed the main beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, and alongside them the scriptures which those beliefs came from.

Since by that time I had given up on my search, assuming that I must've been completely unworthy of the truth, and my lifestyle at that point certainly suited that belief, I did not even own a Bible. But the moment I lay on the floor and read that track, I knew precisely what I had been led to.

It took four years for me to decide though I really didn't believe I was worthy of the opportunity, I least had to check it out. Even the fact that I happened to walk into a kingdom Hall at precisely the right time to catch a group, brothers and sisters there cleaning it was in itself a miracle. I don't even know entirely why I chose that time to go there. I simply woke up and decided I had to go, got showered, dressed and walked to Easton, Bristol, Kingdom Hall at precisely the right time..

Another thing I find it very difficult to explain is that the first meeting I attended was the joint theocratic ministry school/service meeting. As it happened I had picked a week when the school meeting was given over to what they then called the "written review". At the start of this particular meeting everyone is given a questionnaire, which is designed to help you to see what you have understood from the previous month's school meetings. To my study conducted surprise. I also asked for a sheet, thinking I might as well have a go at least. I answered all the questions as best I could, and handed my sheet to my study conducted at the end, and we "marked" each other's. He was as astounded as I was to find that, even though I had not been to one of the preceding meetings, and had only started studying the week before, I had a pretty good grasp of the answers.

Again, that is an experience I still can't explain to myself.

There is so much about my introduction to the Jehovah's Witnesses that doesn't just speak of the involvement of holy spirit, but shouted out loudly. Especially the circumstances under which I got the initial, and reluctant, introduction to their beliefs. If I dared tell you about it, you would not be surprised that it took me four years to do anything about it, even though I already knew exactly what I had found, or to be more accurate, had shoved under my nose.
Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 9:11:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Being a Christian is quite easy, I was raised Christian [though I never believed it] and simply beliveing in jesus's teachings and the bible is no t at all difficult. You are overcomplicating it.
Turn around, go back.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 9:45:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 9:11:30 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Being a Christian is quite easy, I was raised Christian [though I never believed it] and simply beliveing in jesus's teachings and the bible is no t at all difficult. You are overcomplicating it.

As Christ and the Apostles would say if it's easy, it isn't Christianity.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 10:18:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 9:45:22 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/26/2013 9:11:30 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Being a Christian is quite easy, I was raised Christian [though I never believed it] and simply beliveing in jesus's teachings and the bible is no t at all difficult. You are overcomplicating it.

As Christ and the Apostles would say if it's easy, it isn't Christianity.
Which apostles and how do you know what christ said?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 11:19:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 10:18:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/26/2013 9:45:22 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/26/2013 9:11:30 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Being a Christian is quite easy, I was raised Christian [though I never believed it] and simply beliveing in jesus's teachings and the bible is no t at all difficult. You are overcomplicating it.

As Christ and the Apostles would say if it's easy, it isn't Christianity.
Which apostles and how do you know what christ said?

All the apostles, and because it was carefully recorded for us.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 11:43:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 5:02:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/25/2013 4:14:20 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/23/2013 6:53:51 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
did anyone try to tell you that being a Christian is easy? Well, think again, and think on these three scriptures.

Matthew 10:34-39 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man"s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.

Which, of course, fits in perfectly with what he said in his sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13, 14
13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

And:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

It's too bad Christians don't know what a saint is. These scriptures are about what sinless saints go through, not a sinner like all Christians are.

Saints are born of God and can't sin anymore. Saints are the only ones who can obey God's commandments.

1 John 2:
3: And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
29: If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that every one who does right is born of him.

1 John 3:
6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.
9: No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

1 John 5:
2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
18: We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

it appears that you don't know what a saint is either.

The saint is quite simply a holy man. Nothing more nothing less.

And yes the only sure way we can show love for God, as Jesus said we must when he quoted Deuteronomy 6:5 "And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force". Is by obeying his commands, as his son did, and a major way of doing that is to do what Christ told this when he quoted Leviticus 19:18
18 ""You must not take vengeance nor have a grudge against the sons of your people; and you must love your fellow as yourself. I am Jehovah. Matthew 22:34-40 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 He said to him: ""You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind." 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, "You must love your neighbor as yourself." 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets."is.

This was also echoed by James when he said, at James 1:27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.

In fact, the entire letter of James is a very important one for those who wish to follow Christ properly in any age. James speaks of the necessity of relying on God and holy spirit for the wisdom and understanding we need.

He discusses how we need to worship God to be acceptable to him, as the above Scripture shows all he really wants from us as worship is fresh to treat each other properly as humans should. That way we proved that we will be worthy to live in the restored Earth.

He explains that faith without the works to demonstrate that faith is useless, but what does he mean by "works"? Well, what works can display our faith in God and our trust in him? Is it not the works similar to those described at James 1:27? As Paul made very clear. It is certainly not down to works of law.

Do you not believe that Paul was a holy man?

He most certainly was, and he was very clear about the fact that he could still sin.

Romans 7:21-25 I find, then, this law in my case: that when I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I behold in my members+ another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin"s law that is in my members. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with [my] mind I myself am a slave to God"s law, but with [my] flesh to sin"s law.

Yes, no matter how holy, how saintly, we may be we can still sin, and that will continue to be the case, right up until the time when we finally made perfect and have learned to be obedient in that perfect state.

The religious Romans who produced the Bible made the sinless saint Paul a sinner. All us saints know we can't sin anymore because we're no longer under the old covenant that all you sinners are under.

No Christian has ever known what a saint is except for some believers of the gospel that the saints were preaching before the Romans killed them all. Some of those believers were deceived into the Roman Catholic Church with all their lies. All the saints understood the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and learned that a false religion would come out of the fourth kingdom of the beast. Some of them saw this religion forming before they were killed by the Romans who started Christianity. Paul didn't see this because he was killed a long time before Christianity began.

Rome used Paul as a way to lure sinners (some of them true believers) into their false churches and make them believe in their false gods.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 11:45:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 7:28:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/25/2013 7:01:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "Acts 8:26-30 However, Jehovah"s angel spoke to Philip, saying: "Rise and go to the south to the road that runs down from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.) 27 With that he rose and went, and, look! an Ethiopian eunuch, a man in power under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, and who was over all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 but he was returning and was sitting in his chariot and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: "Approach and join yourself to this chariot." 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: "Do you actually know what you are reading?" 31 He said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?" And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him.

That is why Christ has provided the Jehovah's Witnesses to help people understand, but holy spirit is still necessary also. Just as holy spirit was used to instruct Philip, so it is used to instruct Jehovah's Witnesses. Especially in this most urgent time of the end."

Anna:

1. When the Spirit spoke to Philip, was it a miracle?

2. What new revelation did the Spirit give to Philip?

3. Since you said baptism was a "public symbol of one's dedication", where was the "public"?

4. Do you take as your authority the Bible alone? Or is your authority the Bible, plus additional "modern-day" revelations?

1. I guess that depends on what you call a miracle. I would say not, but then I have experienced similar things myself.

2. Unless you count the information as to where to meet the eunuch as a revelation, then none. I guess. Holy spirit isn't used solely for revelations.

3. Scripture does not care less how many people were present at the time, but at the very least there was the chariot driver there, and possibly at least one attendant, considering the importance of the eunuch. It would be very unlikely that such an important man will be travelling alone in dangerous country. However, even one witness is public enough.

4. as always, everything in life, as stated in the law is proven "at the mouth of two, or three, witnesses." I have the combined witness of Scripture and, through holy spirit, God and Christ. I need nothing more. I certainly don't need the words of men, though provided you pick the right men, one is guided by holy spirit, it can give you a good start on the right road.


More often than not, holy spirit will either guide you to the right people, or guide them to your door. Christ may also, as in my case, use rather extreme circumstances to force you to at least look in the right place, after which it is up to you.

I say that last bit because there is no way I would have looked at Jehovah's Witnesses. I too was thoroughly prejudiced against them, mostly by the sort of lies that you and others tell. However, I was, in effect, forced to check on their beliefs by someone who gave me a attract which listed the main beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, and alongside them the scriptures which those beliefs came from.

Since by that time I had given up on my search, assuming that I must've been completely unworthy of the truth, and my lifestyle at that point certainly suited that belief, I did not even own a Bible. But the moment I lay on the floor and read that track, I knew precisely what I had been led to.


It took four years for me to decide though I really didn't believe I was worthy of the opportunity, I least had to check it out. Even the fact that I happened to walk into a kingdom Hall at precisely the right time to catch a group, brothers and sisters there cleaning it was in itself a miracle. I don't even know entirely why I chose that time to go there. I simply woke up and decided I had to go, got showered, dressed and walked to Easton, Bristol, Kingdom Hall at precisely the right time..

Another thing I find it very difficult to explain is that the first meeting I attended was the joint theocratic ministry school/service meeting. As it happened I had picked a week when the school meeting was given over to what they then called the "written review". At the start of this particular meeting everyone is given a questionnaire, which is designed to help you to see what you have understood from the previous month's school meetings. To my study conducted surprise. I also asked for a sheet, thinking I might as well have a go at least. I answered all the questions as best I could, and handed my sheet to my study conducted at the end, and we "marked" each other's. He was as astounded as I was to find that, even though I had not been to one of the preceding meetings, and had only started studying the week before, I had a pretty good grasp of the answers.

Again, that is an experience I still can't explain to myself.

There is so much about my introduction to the Jehovah's Witnesses that doesn't just speak of the involvement of holy spirit, but shouted out loudly. Especially the circumstances under which I got the initial, and reluctant, introduction to their beliefs. If I dared tell you about it, you would not be surprised that it took me four years to do anything about it, even though I already knew exactly what I had found, or to be more accurate, had shoved under my nose.

You have no idea what the scriptures are about. That's because you're under the old covenant like all sinners are.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 12:12:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 11:45:55 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/26/2013 7:28:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/25/2013 7:01:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "Acts 8:26-30 However, Jehovah"s angel spoke to Philip, saying: "Rise and go to the south to the road that runs down from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.) 27 With that he rose and went, and, look! an Ethiopian eunuch, a man in power under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, and who was over all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 but he was returning and was sitting in his chariot and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: "Approach and join yourself to this chariot." 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: "Do you actually know what you are reading?" 31 He said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?" And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him.

That is why Christ has provided the Jehovah's Witnesses to help people understand, but holy spirit is still necessary also. Just as holy spirit was used to instruct Philip, so it is used to instruct Jehovah's Witnesses. Especially in this most urgent time of the end."

Anna:

1. When the Spirit spoke to Philip, was it a miracle?

2. What new revelation did the Spirit give to Philip?

3. Since you said baptism was a "public symbol of one's dedication", where was the "public"?

4. Do you take as your authority the Bible alone? Or is your authority the Bible, plus additional "modern-day" revelations?

1. I guess that depends on what you call a miracle. I would say not, but then I have experienced similar things myself.

2. Unless you count the information as to where to meet the eunuch as a revelation, then none. I guess. Holy spirit isn't used solely for revelations.

3. Scripture does not care less how many people were present at the time, but at the very least there was the chariot driver there, and possibly at least one attendant, considering the importance of the eunuch. It would be very unlikely that such an important man will be travelling alone in dangerous country. However, even one witness is public enough.

4. as always, everything in life, as stated in the law is proven "at the mouth of two, or three, witnesses." I have the combined witness of Scripture and, through holy spirit, God and Christ. I need nothing more. I certainly don't need the words of men, though provided you pick the right men, one is guided by holy spirit, it can give you a good start on the right road.


More often than not, holy spirit will either guide you to the right people, or guide them to your door. Christ may also, as in my case, use rather extreme circumstances to force you to at least look in the right place, after which it is up to you.

I say that last bit because there is no way I would have looked at Jehovah's Witnesses. I too was thoroughly prejudiced against them, mostly by the sort of lies that you and others tell. However, I was, in effect, forced to check on their beliefs by someone who gave me a attract which listed the main beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, and alongside them the scriptures which those beliefs came from.

Since by that time I had given up on my search, assuming that I must've been completely unworthy of the truth, and my lifestyle at that point certainly suited that belief, I did not even own a Bible. But the moment I lay on the floor and read that track, I knew precisely what I had been led to.


It took four years for me to decide though I really didn't believe I was worthy of the opportunity, I least had to check it out. Even the fact that I happened to walk into a kingdom Hall at precisely the right time to catch a group, brothers and sisters there cleaning it was in itself a miracle. I don't even know entirely why I chose that time to go there. I simply woke up and decided I had to go, got showered, dressed and walked to Easton, Bristol, Kingdom Hall at precisely the right time..

Another thing I find it very difficult to explain is that the first meeting I attended was the joint theocratic ministry school/service meeting. As it happened I had picked a week when the school meeting was given over to what they then called the "written review". At the start of this particular meeting everyone is given a questionnaire, which is designed to help you to see what you have understood from the previous month's school meetings. To my study conducted surprise. I also asked for a sheet, thinking I might as well have a go at least. I answered all the questions as best I could, and handed my sheet to my study conducted at the end, and we "marked" each other's. He was as astounded as I was to find that, even though I had not been to one of the preceding meetings, and had only started studying the week before, I had a pretty good grasp of the answers.

Again, that is an experience I still can't explain to myself.

There is so much about my introduction to the Jehovah's Witnesses that doesn't just speak of the involvement of holy spirit, but shouted out loudly. Especially the circumstances under which I got the initial, and reluctant, introduction to their beliefs. If I dared tell you about it, you would not be surprised that it took me four years to do anything about it, even though I already knew exactly what I had found, or to be more accurate, had shoved under my nose.

You have no idea what the scriptures are about. That's because you're under the old covenant like all sinners are.

On the contrary I am under the new covenant, though not one of the anointed rulers.

One thing is sure, I obviously have more idea than you do.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2013 5:19:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 12:12:01 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/26/2013 11:45:55 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/26/2013 7:28:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/25/2013 7:01:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "Acts 8:26-30 However, Jehovah"s angel spoke to Philip, saying: "Rise and go to the south to the road that runs down from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.) 27 With that he rose and went, and, look! an Ethiopian eunuch, a man in power under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, and who was over all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 but he was returning and was sitting in his chariot and reading aloud the prophet Isaiah. 29 So the spirit said to Philip: "Approach and join yourself to this chariot." 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: "Do you actually know what you are reading?" 31 He said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?" And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him.

That is why Christ has provided the Jehovah's Witnesses to help people understand, but holy spirit is still necessary also. Just as holy spirit was used to instruct Philip, so it is used to instruct Jehovah's Witnesses. Especially in this most urgent time of the end."

Anna:

1. When the Spirit spoke to Philip, was it a miracle?

2. What new revelation did the Spirit give to Philip?

3. Since you said baptism was a "public symbol of one's dedication", where was the "public"?

4. Do you take as your authority the Bible alone? Or is your authority the Bible, plus additional "modern-day" revelations?

1. I guess that depends on what you call a miracle. I would say not, but then I have experienced similar things myself.

2. Unless you count the information as to where to meet the eunuch as a revelation, then none. I guess. Holy spirit isn't used solely for revelations.

3. Scripture does not care less how many people were present at the time, but at the very least there was the chariot driver there, and possibly at least one attendant, considering the importance of the eunuch. It would be very unlikely that such an important man will be travelling alone in dangerous country. However, even one witness is public enough.

4. as always, everything in life, as stated in the law is proven "at the mouth of two, or three, witnesses." I have the combined witness of Scripture and, through holy spirit, God and Christ. I need nothing more. I certainly don't need the words of men, though provided you pick the right men, one is guided by holy spirit, it can give you a good start on the right road.


More often than not, holy spirit will either guide you to the right people, or guide them to your door. Christ may also, as in my case, use rather extreme circumstances to force you to at least look in the right place, after which it is up to you.

I say that last bit because there is no way I would have looked at Jehovah's Witnesses. I too was thoroughly prejudiced against them, mostly by the sort of lies that you and others tell. However, I was, in effect, forced to check on their beliefs by someone who gave me a attract which listed the main beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, and alongside them the scriptures which those beliefs came from.

Since by that time I had given up on my search, assuming that I must've been completely unworthy of the truth, and my lifestyle at that point certainly suited that belief, I did not even own a Bible. But the moment I lay on the floor and read that track, I knew precisely what I had been led to.


It took four years for me to decide though I really didn't believe I was worthy of the opportunity, I least had to check it out. Even the fact that I happened to walk into a kingdom Hall at precisely the right time to catch a group, brothers and sisters there cleaning it was in itself a miracle. I don't even know entirely why I chose that time to go there. I simply woke up and decided I had to go, got showered, dressed and walked to Easton, Bristol, Kingdom Hall at precisely the right time..

Another thing I find it very difficult to explain is that the first meeting I attended was the joint theocratic ministry school/service meeting. As it happened I had picked a week when the school meeting was given over to what they then called the "written review". At the start of this particular meeting everyone is given a questionnaire, which is designed to help you to see what you have understood from the previous month's school meetings. To my study conducted surprise. I also asked for a sheet, thinking I might as well have a go at least. I answered all the questions as best I could, and handed my sheet to my study conducted at the end, and we "marked" each other's. He was as astounded as I was to find that, even though I had not been to one of the preceding meetings, and had only started studying the week before, I had a pretty good grasp of the answers.

Again, that is an experience I still can't explain to myself.

There is so much about my introduction to the Jehovah's Witnesses that doesn't just speak of the involvement of holy spirit, but shouted out loudly. Especially the circumstances under which I got the initial, and reluctant, introduction to their beliefs. If I dared tell you about it, you would not be surprised that it took me four years to do anything about it, even though I already knew exactly what I had found, or to be more accurate, had shoved under my nose.

You have no idea what the scriptures are about. That's because you're under the old covenant like all sinners are.

On the contrary I am under the new covenant, though not one of the anointed rulers.

One thing is sure, I obviously have more idea than you do.

All Christians are sinners. Here's what the scriptures point out as sinners.

1 John 1:
6: If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth;

1 John 2:
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 3:
4: Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

8: He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 4:
6: We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Matthew 5:
19: Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven,
20: For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6
21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22: "The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light;
23: but if your eye is not sound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
24: "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2013 3:49:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anna: "Do you take as your authority the Bible alone? Or is your authority the Bible, plus additional "modern-day" revelations?

MCB: "as always, everything in life, as stated in the law is proven "at the mouth of two, or three, witnesses." I have the combined witness of Scripture and, through holy spirit, God and Christ. I need nothing more. I certainly don't need the words of men, though provided you pick the right men, one is guided by holy spirit, it can give you a good start on the right road."

Anna: That's interesting, although it really does not answer the question: it answers around it. The passage in Corinthians refers to some kind of discipline in the church at Corinth (you are quite familiar with church discipline, I gather). The passage has nothing on earth to do with the veracity or all-sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures.

It is very strange that you came to the same conclusions of the WatchTower group without their literature, since their claim is that no man can come to the truth without their literature. They have most emphatically stated that the Bible without their literature will not deliver the truth, but their literature without the Bible WILL deliver the truth. Man, you weaseled around their own claims!

As far as your comments on the public nature of the eunuch's baptism, well ... they are decidedly weak and amount to your own assertions. The fact of the matter is that the purpose of Christian baptism, of course, is not the public profession of anything. Right there is the problem. IF baptism serves secondarily as a "public profession", such a function is purely coincidental. Your doctrine forces you to make the absurd claim that a person baptized at midnight in a hot-tub with all the lights out with nobody there but the candidate and the administrator is a public profession! The Witnesses seem to have borrowed that line of thought from certain Protestant groups, because one surely cannot find it in the Bible.

*****

MCB: "I guess that depends on what you call a miracle."

Anna: Well, I follow the dictionary/lexicographical definition of a miracle, but since you have little use for those little nuisances, what exactly is your definition?

*****

MCB: "I too was thoroughly prejudiced against them, mostly by the sort of lies that you and others tell."

Anna: Name one. You took horrendous offense that I merely implied that you lied, so exactly what is the difference between what you are saying now versus what I said then? Answer: precisely none! And, of course, you've still yet to really explain where the 606/607 BC date comes from, especially since the WatchTower's own literature denies their own date! That's really something, isn't it? If one bases his calculations on the WatchTower's list of Babylonian kings, he will arrive at 586/587 BC. THAT is why I asked the question - and I suppose it's why you never answered.

*****

MCB: "Again, that is an experience I still can't explain to myself."

Anna: Of course you can't. Your "testimony" can't hold a candle to the Holy Rollers here in the southern U. S. Almost every false teacher bolsters his teachings with a testimony. Hence, such testimonies, while interesting perhaps, are essentially worthless.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2013 7:45:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/27/2013 3:49:33 AM, annanicole wrote:
Anna: "Do you take as your authority the Bible alone? Or is your authority the Bible, plus additional "modern-day" revelations?

MCB: "as always, everything in life, as stated in the law is proven "at the mouth of two, or three, witnesses." I have the combined witness of Scripture and, through holy spirit, God and Christ. I need nothing more. I certainly don't need the words of men, though provided you pick the right men, one is guided by holy spirit, it can give you a good start on the right road."

Anna: That's interesting, although it really does not answer the question: it answers around it. The passage in Corinthians refers to some kind of discipline in the church at Corinth (you are quite familiar with church discipline, I gather). The passage has nothing on earth to do with the veracity or all-sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures.

It is very strange that you came to the same conclusions of the WatchTower group without their literature, since their claim is that no man can come to the truth without their literature. They have most emphatically stated that the Bible without their literature will not deliver the truth, but their literature without the Bible WILL deliver the truth. Man, you weaseled around their own claims!

As far as your comments on the public nature of the eunuch's baptism, well ... they are decidedly weak and amount to your own assertions. The fact of the matter is that the purpose of Christian baptism, of course, is not the public profession of anything. Right there is the problem. IF baptism serves secondarily as a "public profession", such a function is purely coincidental. Your doctrine forces you to make the absurd claim that a person baptized at midnight in a hot-tub with all the lights out with nobody there but the candidate and the administrator is a public profession! The Witnesses seem to have borrowed that line of thought from certain Protestant groups, because one surely cannot find it in the Bible.

*****

MCB: "I guess that depends on what you call a miracle."

Anna: Well, I follow the dictionary/lexicographical definition of a miracle, but since you have little use for those little nuisances, what exactly is your definition?

*****

MCB: "I too was thoroughly prejudiced against them, mostly by the sort of lies that you and others tell."

Anna: Name one. You took horrendous offense that I merely implied that you lied, so exactly what is the difference between what you are saying now versus what I said then? Answer: precisely none! And, of course, you've still yet to really explain where the 606/607 BC date comes from, especially since the WatchTower's own literature denies their own date! That's really something, isn't it? If one bases his calculations on the WatchTower's list of Babylonian kings, he will arrive at 586/587 BC. THAT is why I asked the question - and I suppose it's why you never answered.

*****

MCB: "Again, that is an experience I still can't explain to myself."

Anna: Of course you can't. Your "testimony" can't hold a candle to the Holy Rollers here in the southern U. S. Almost every false teacher bolsters his teachings with a testimony. Hence, such testimonies, while interesting perhaps, are essentially worthless.

The difference is that you don't know you are passing on lies from Satan. That is why I don't call you a liar. However, that does not stop the things that you say from being lies. Even if you don't know they are.

Name one? Easy.

You claim, despite absolute proof that it has been altered, that the standard version of John 1:1 is accurate. No matter how firmly believe it, it is still a lie.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2013 8:34:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: 'You claim, despite absolute proof that it has been altered, that the standard version of John 1:1 is accurate. No matter how firmly believe it, it is still a lie."

Anna: MCB, you were asked the simplest of questions regarding that verse - and you consistently failed to answer anything. A man that can't do any better than what you do - and did - has no business claiming that anything was "altered". You certainly seem to know a lot about "altered" verses! Yet when you are questioned, you duck for cover and claim you have no use for an lexicons/dictionaries/grammars or anything else.

You were specifically asked if "theos" and "theon" were the same GREEK root word with simply a different CASE, one nominative and one objective? You never answered! As I recall, you finally just said that you didn't know much about "cases".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2013 8:37:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "No matter how firmly believe it, it is still a lie."

Anna: Haha. Kinda like these special "spirit-leadings" you claim to have? Imagine the nerve of someone who takes a specific promise to the apostles, and rattles down the centuries 2,000 years later - and claims the same promise for himself and others! Wasn't PGA just talking to you about CONTEXT - to whom and under what circumstances things were said?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2013 9:57:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Poor old mad lived for almost ever in the cocoon of stupidity and they nonpersoned him and he has been lost ever since. Poor chap and he's deathly afraid of dying before the cumming and his avoidance of that horror.
I wonder mad have you ever read 1984 or Animal Farm. You should, they are incredibly prophetic when read in the light of jehovianism.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2013 10:27:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/27/2013 9:57:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
Poor old mad lived for almost ever in the cocoon of stupidity and they nonpersoned him and he has been lost ever since. Poor chap and he's deathly afraid of dying before the cumming and his avoidance of that horror.
I wonder mad have you ever read 1984 or Animal Farm. You should, they are incredibly prophetic when read in the light of jehovianism.

Shows how little you know.

I have absolutely nothing to be afraid of.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2013 10:35:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/27/2013 10:27:53 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/27/2013 9:57:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
Poor old mad lived for almost ever in the cocoon of stupidity and they nonpersoned him and he has been lost ever since. Poor chap and he's deathly afraid of dying before the cumming and his avoidance of that horror.
I wonder mad have you ever read 1984 or Animal Farm. You should, they are incredibly prophetic when read in the light of jehovianism.

Shows how little you know.

I have absolutely nothing to be afraid of.
Have you read either book?
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/27/2013 10:41:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh btw mad that is the reason detre of jehovianism. It's what poor old Charlie thought and it is what jehovians teach to this day (yes not very smart). You won't die next Tuesday when god comes down on his flaming cloud with a fluffy white sword to kill all the non jehovians. That is the belief mad, you know it and that is why your non-personhood troubles you so greatly. Only the jehovians will survive next Tuesdays armageddon. They've been telling the same story for 130yrs or so..................not a good record ay?