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Heaven is a Lethal Belief

DeFool
Posts: 626
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7/24/2013 10:08:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It is impossible to actually, truly believe in heaven, and to remain alive.

(Side note: the modern concept of heaven is... modern. It is new, and would have been entirely alien to followers of Abrahamic religion as recently as 100 years ago. I am, therefore, referring to the modern concept of heaven as a place of eternal bliss that can be accessed upon death.)

It is my belief that any person who honestly thinks that such a place is literally real will become instantly homicidal and suicidal. Such a believer will not seek medical attention, will not avoid danger, and will possibly take aggressive measures to ensure that those they love will enjoy the eternal bliss as quickly as possible.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/24/2013 10:14:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I believe it literally and it is part of my religion that is Abrahamic!

And I do take medication when necessary , and enjoy life, as you can't get to heaven without living life properly!!

And suicide get you to Hell!
DeFool
Posts: 626
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7/24/2013 10:47:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 10:14:24 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Well, I believe it literally and it is part of my religion that is Abrahamic!

And I do take medication when necessary , and enjoy life, as you can't get to heaven without living life properly!!

And suicide get you to Hell!

I agree that you say that suicide can send a person to hell, which is a place of eternal torture.

I ask if this applies to the martyrs, or Samson. Wouldn't the death of Jesus also be considered a First Century version of suicide by cop? I read the bible, and see many cases of suicide, and of suicidal behavior.
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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7/24/2013 11:03:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 10:47:09 AM, DeFool wrote:
I agree that you say that suicide can send a person to hell, which is a place of eternal torture.

I ask if this applies to the martyrs, or Samson. Wouldn't the death of Jesus also be considered a First Century version of suicide by cop? I read the bible, and see many cases of suicide, and of suicidal behavior.

Accepting your death (martyrs + Jesus) =/= Seeking your death (suicide)
DeFool
Posts: 626
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7/24/2013 11:07:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 11:03:43 AM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
At 7/24/2013 10:47:09 AM, DeFool wrote:
I agree that you say that suicide can send a person to hell, which is a place of eternal torture.

I ask if this applies to the martyrs, or Samson. Wouldn't the death of Jesus also be considered a First Century version of suicide by cop? I read the bible, and see many cases of suicide, and of suicidal behavior.

Accepting your death (martyrs + Jesus) =/= Seeking your death (suicide)

So there is a loophole that seems to exclude the likes of Samson? I can accept that you say so. Why not accept the death of a child, rather than seek medical attention? Suicide is not the only cause of eternal happiness and bliss.

Is it consistent with a belief in heaven to take a child to the doctor rather than Jesus?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/24/2013 11:14:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 10:47:09 AM, DeFool wrote:
At 7/24/2013 10:14:24 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Well, I believe it literally and it is part of my religion that is Abrahamic!

And I do take medication when necessary , and enjoy life, as you can't get to heaven without living life properly!!

And suicide get you to Hell!

I agree that you say that suicide can send a person to hell, which is a place of eternal torture.

I ask if this applies to the martyrs, or Samson. Wouldn't the death of Jesus also be considered a First Century version of suicide by cop? I read the bible, and see many cases of suicide, and of suicidal behavior.

Jesus is a Prophet, He did not use a tool to kill himself, he just let things happen as God commanded Him, for He needed to die before ha could ascend, so he will return and this is specific to him, none else can do like him, or even have the right to .For martyrs too they did not kill their own, they strived for the truth and were killed for it, that is different. if you are given the choice between falsehood and death and you whose death, that is not suicide, but oppression form whoever killed you.
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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7/24/2013 11:15:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 11:07:11 AM, DeFool wrote:
So there is a loophole that seems to exclude the likes of Samson?

Who knows about Samson. Certainly not me. I suppose it would depend on whether he brought about his death because he wanted to end it for himself.

I can accept that you say so. Why not accept the death of a child, rather than seek medical attention? Suicide is not the only cause of eternal happiness and bliss.

If the child wants to live, why wouldn't you want to help it?

Is it consistent with a belief in heaven to take a child to the doctor rather than Jesus?

I would think so, since Jesus said to help the poor and stuff. It's not like he said 'Oh, just let them all starve and fester to death; they'll get to heaven sooner that way.'
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/24/2013 11:17:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 11:07:11 AM, DeFool wrote:
At 7/24/2013 11:03:43 AM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
At 7/24/2013 10:47:09 AM, DeFool wrote:
I agree that you say that suicide can send a person to hell, which is a place of eternal torture.

I ask if this applies to the martyrs, or Samson. Wouldn't the death of Jesus also be considered a First Century version of suicide by cop? I read the bible, and see many cases of suicide, and of suicidal behavior.

Accepting your death (martyrs + Jesus) =/= Seeking your death (suicide)

So there is a loophole that seems to exclude the likes of Samson? I can accept that you say so. Why not accept the death of a child, rather than seek medical attention? Suicide is not the only cause of eternal happiness and bliss.

Is it consistent with a belief in heaven to take a child to the doctor rather than Jesus?

Ahh because saving a life is a good deed, that can get you to heaven :D ,whether it be the life of a young or an old.
DeFool
Posts: 626
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7/24/2013 11:27:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I will re-frame the question:

It would be an act of irrational hatred on the part of a mother to not kill her child (thus sending that child to heaven) rather than to instead take that child to a pizza party. Unless we accept that she believes that the child would benefit more from Chuck E Cheese than Jesus, however temporary this preference might be.

Or, if we understand that she believes in the reality of the pizza party slightly more than the reality of heaven.
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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7/24/2013 11:31:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 11:27:38 AM, DeFool wrote:
I will re-frame the question:

It would be an act of irrational hatred on the part of a mother to not kill her child (thus sending that child to heaven) rather than to instead take that child to a pizza party. Unless we accept that she believes that the child would benefit more from Chuck E Cheese than Jesus, however temporary this preference might be.

It would be an act of irrational hatred on the part of a mother to kill her child as:

1) She is not assured that the child will go to heaven, as she is not The Judge

2) If she believes in heaven, she probably believes God also told her not to kill

Or, if we understand that she believes in the reality of the pizza party slightly more than the reality of heaven.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/24/2013 11:35:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 11:27:38 AM, DeFool wrote:
I will re-frame the question:

It would be an act of irrational hatred on the part of a mother to not kill her child (thus sending that child to heaven) rather than to instead take that child to a pizza party. Unless we accept that she believes that the child would benefit more from Chuck E Cheese than Jesus, however temporary this preference might be.

Or, if we understand that she believes in the reality of the pizza party slightly more than the reality of heaven.

Beleiving in Heaven is part of religion right ? part of religion is also saving life , which is a mean to going to heaven, if you can save a person and don't do it you would be a criminal, maybe that person will go to heaven , but you will go to Hell. if you think that someone will want to ho to Hell for anybody , they you are wrong.And the boy you killed may or may not go to Heaven!Then why not just kill all the kids ? huh! you are using a false logic. because you forgot all what believing in Heaven means.
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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7/24/2013 11:36:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 11:27:38 AM, DeFool wrote:
Or, if we understand that she believes in the reality of the pizza party slightly more than the reality of heaven.

This is also probable as well.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/24/2013 11:43:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 10:08:26 AM, DeFool wrote:
It is impossible to actually, truly believe in heaven, and to remain alive.

(Side note: the modern concept of heaven is... modern. It is new, and would have been entirely alien to followers of Abrahamic religion as recently as 100 years ago. I am, therefore, referring to the modern concept of heaven as a place of eternal bliss that can be accessed upon death.)

It is my belief that any person who honestly thinks that such a place is literally real will become instantly homicidal and suicidal. Such a believer will not seek medical attention, will not avoid danger, and will possibly take aggressive measures to ensure that those they love will enjoy the eternal bliss as quickly as possible.

Heaven is energy and energy is information (God's thoughts) We are created invisible and the illusion we live in is the visible world where we experience processed information in a way we can understand it.
makhdoom5
Posts: 202
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7/24/2013 12:53:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
u have forgotten the purpose of life.
what ALLAH has commanded us by saying this.
"he created life and death to see whom among u do best or good deeds"
how could u end this test when u are not allowed. but u are capable of, but also if u do end this test u are gonna fail. coz ALLAH is wise he put the test so hard so u can finish in time. skipping it will gives u no marks.
question is so simple above one is verse in inverted commons.
in fact this this question is 100% practical. u are in lab(world).
do practical and pass.
the more u do this more u will get high marks.
for a wise person this example is enough to think at least.
Bannanawamajama
Posts: 125
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7/24/2013 1:00:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If the mother kills the child that is bad. The Child would probably go to Heaven and the mother to Hell. Conversely, if the mother let the child live and they both led good lives and whatever else their particular religion demands, they would believe they would go to Heaven together.

It would be wasteful to unnecessarily bring murder into the world, which is why the mother doesn't do it. If she raises her child right, it will go to Heaven regardless. Assuming your child will stray into evil to such an extent that it can never be saved is wrong because you shouldn't label someone as blasphemous or cruel or terrible if they aren't. The mother can't kill her child because that would mean judging his life and his future by herself, which is playing God.
Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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7/24/2013 2:17:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I find the prospect of a reward at the end of my mortal existence significantly more heartening than the idea that my existence will end with only blackness and nothing.

Without heaven, what meaning is there to our lives other than eating, sh!tting, and having sex?
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cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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7/24/2013 2:19:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 10:14:24 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Well, I believe it literally and it is part of my religion that is Abrahamic!

And I do take medication when necessary , and enjoy life, as you can't get to heaven without living life properly!!

And suicide get you to Hell!

so saving a hundred lives by ending your own sends you to hell. Wow you have such a wonderful god.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.