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is buddhism theistic?

cybertron1998
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7/24/2013 1:17:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
think about it
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Fruitytree
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7/24/2013 1:38:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Budhism is theistic in the sense that its scriptures do mention a God. But at the same time it can be takes as just a way of life.

But where do the teachings come from ?!
cybertron1998
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7/24/2013 1:41:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 1:38:06 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
Budhism is theistic in the sense that its scriptures do mention a God. But at the same time it can be takes as just a way of life.

But where do the teachings come from ?!

actually no buddha is an alias for someone actually recorded in history.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Quan
Posts: 97
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7/24/2013 2:12:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Buddhism has no deities in the sense that we're familiar with and is generally considered atheistic. It does, however, have a lot of supernatural elements.
Bannanawamajama
Posts: 125
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7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.
Fruitytree
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7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?
Wnope
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7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.
Bannanawamajama
Posts: 125
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7/24/2013 6:05:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

Not everything is about a cause for the existence of the universe. Buddhists are happy focusing on their present and future. They might have some cause though, I'm not a Buddhist myself
Fruitytree
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7/24/2013 6:11:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 6:05:21 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

Not everything is about a cause for the existence of the universe. Buddhists are happy focusing on their present and future. They might have some cause though, I'm not a Buddhist myself

Ok thank you.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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7/25/2013 12:35:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.
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Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/25/2013 12:46:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

No cause is needed for the universe, so who cares?
Quan
Posts: 97
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7/25/2013 1:06:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?
The Universe has no beginning or end in Buddhism. Everything just is.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/25/2013 1:30:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 12:46:12 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

No cause is needed for the universe, so who cares?

My spirit cares.
Fruitytree
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7/25/2013 1:32:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

No, universe isn't infinite, God is.As universe isn't infinite it needs a cause. and the infinite cause is called God. if something is infinite it cannot have a cause right ?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/25/2013 1:34:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 1:06:16 PM, Quan wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?
The Universe has no beginning or end in Buddhism. Everything just is.

But this is false , we know universe is a machine that didn't exist since ever, and cannot exist forever ! It's eating up its own self.
Fruitytree
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7/25/2013 1:35:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 12:35:26 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

Nah
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/25/2013 2:05:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 1:32:45 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

No, universe isn't infinite, God is.As universe isn't infinite it needs a cause. and the infinite cause is called God. if something is infinite it cannot have a cause right ?

What does "infinite" have to do with anything? Something infinite can have a cause.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/25/2013 2:05:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 1:30:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 12:46:12 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

No cause is needed for the universe, so who cares?

My spirit cares.

Well, your spirit is misguided.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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7/25/2013 2:23:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 1:32:45 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

No, universe isn't infinite, God is.As universe isn't infinite it needs a cause. and the infinite cause is called God. if something is infinite it cannot have a cause right ?

I could give you the answer a Vedantan/Hindu probably would, but I don't know how a Buddhist would answer that.

The thing is in eastern religious there is no fundamental distinction between "the universe" and god. The universe is a modification of God, an emanation of it.

The key difference between commonly accepted version of western gods versus eatern involves the nature of consciousness.

When we talk about the human version of consciousness, it always has an "about-ness" to it. You think ABOUT something. Something other than your self exists, and you can think of that thing. You can think ABOUT yourself. You can try to think ABOUT nothing. Along with this "about-ness" comes the identification of a "self" separate from various things you can think "about."

Godly conscious for westerners (with exceptions) involves some amount of "about-ness" and self-awareness. That is, God thinks about things. He actively creates things. Objects exist separate from God which he can conceive/think of.

Godly conscious for easterners can be imagined as what happens when a mind no longer conceives of itself as different from anything else. There is no actual "experience" in this consciousness because that would entail an observer. The eastern version of God could not observe his own creation and say "this is good" because that would require some form of sentience.

In fact, if you define God as something with sentience, Vedanta is arguably ATHEISTIC.

However, there is another way eastern religions tend to differ from western: what is important about what I wrote is not whether the description itself is historically true, but how it applies to an individuals life and his understanding of it. A Vedantan can say "there's no such thing as reincarnation" or "nothing in the Vedas is based on historical fact" or even (and this is one of my all-time favorite cosmological explanations) that God periodically modifies himself as the universe simply because he wanted to have fun for a few hundred billion years before going back to sleep. Another is that while god was sleeping, a lotus grew out of his navel with a little guy in it who listened to the Vedas and gained the ability to create the universe.

They're all meant to convey messages about the truth of current reality as opposed to historical narratives.

That's why this OP is a legitimately confusing topic.
Fruitytree
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7/25/2013 5:08:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 2:05:20 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/25/2013 1:32:45 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

No, universe isn't infinite, God is.As universe isn't infinite it needs a cause. and the infinite cause is called God. if something is infinite it cannot have a cause right ?

What does "infinite" have to do with anything? Something infinite can have a cause.

If it has a cause it has a beginning and isn't infinite any longerOr you have an example ?!.
Bagofhammers
Posts: 84
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7/25/2013 5:35:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/24/2013 1:17:40 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
think about it

Buddha teaches it's practitioners to pray for compassion wherever they may get it. Wherever, and from whomever that may be.
Fruitytree
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7/25/2013 6:12:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 2:23:06 PM, Wnope wrote:

I could give you the answer a Vedantan/Hindu probably would, but I don't know how a Buddhist would answer that.

The thing is in eastern religious there is no fundamental distinction between "the universe" and god. The universe is a modification of God, an emanation of it.

The key difference between commonly accepted version of western gods versus eatern involves the nature of consciousness.

When we talk about the human version of consciousness, it always has an "about-ness" to it. You think ABOUT something. Something other than your self exists, and you can think of that thing. You can think ABOUT yourself. You can try to think ABOUT nothing. Along with this "about-ness" comes the identification of a "self" separate from various things you can think "about."

Godly conscious for westerners (with exceptions) involves some amount of "about-ness" and self-awareness. That is, God thinks about things. He actively creates things. Objects exist separate from God which he can conceive/think of.

Godly conscious for easterners can be imagined as what happens when a mind no longer conceives of itself as different from anything else. There is no actual "experience" in this consciousness because that would entail an observer. The eastern version of God could not observe his own creation and say "this is good" because that would require some form of sentience.

In fact, if you define God as something with sentience, Vedanta is arguably ATHEISTIC.

However, there is another way eastern religions tend to differ from western: what is important about what I wrote is not whether the description itself is historically true, but how it applies to an individuals life and his understanding of it. A Vedantan can say "there's no such thing as reincarnation" or "nothing in the Vedas is based on historical fact" or even (and this is one of my all-time favorite cosmological explanations) that God periodically modifies himself as the universe simply because he wanted to have fun for a few hundred billion years before going back to sleep. Another is that while god was sleeping, a lotus grew out of his navel with a little guy in it who listened to the Vedas and gained the ability to create the universe.

They're all meant to convey messages about the truth of current reality as opposed to historical narratives.

That's why this OP is a legitimately confusing topic.

Ok I understand a bit, thank you.And before God becomes a universe according to Vedas, how do they define him?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/25/2013 6:35:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 5:08:55 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 2:05:20 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/25/2013 1:32:45 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

No, universe isn't infinite, God is.As universe isn't infinite it needs a cause. and the infinite cause is called God. if something is infinite it cannot have a cause right ?

What does "infinite" have to do with anything? Something infinite can have a cause.

If it has a cause it has a beginning and isn't infinite any longerOr you have an example ?!.

Examples don't mean anything. We don't have examples of minds that don't depend on brains, does that mean God does not exist?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/25/2013 7:20:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 6:35:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/25/2013 5:08:55 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 2:05:20 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/25/2013 1:32:45 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

No, universe isn't infinite, God is.As universe isn't infinite it needs a cause. and the infinite cause is called God. if something is infinite it cannot have a cause right ?

What does "infinite" have to do with anything? Something infinite can have a cause.

If it has a cause it has a beginning and isn't infinite any longerOr you have an example ?!.

Examples don't mean anything. We don't have examples of minds that don't depend on brains, does that mean God does not exist?

I meant a counter example to kill my axiom: "any infinite being does not need a cause", 'infinite being' being any thing with infinite past and infinite future. if it never started then none instigated it !
Rational_Thinker9119
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7/25/2013 7:28:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:20:10 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 6:35:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/25/2013 5:08:55 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 2:05:20 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/25/2013 1:32:45 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

No, universe isn't infinite, God is.As universe isn't infinite it needs a cause. and the infinite cause is called God. if something is infinite it cannot have a cause right ?

What does "infinite" have to do with anything? Something infinite can have a cause.

If it has a cause it has a beginning and isn't infinite any longerOr you have an example ?!.

Examples don't mean anything. We don't have examples of minds that don't depend on brains, does that mean God does not exist?

I meant a counter example to kill my axiom: "any infinite being does not need a cause", 'infinite being' being any thing with infinite past and infinite future. if it never started then none instigated it !

That's not an axiom, it's a bare-assertion. You need reasons to back up your assertions, I do not need to prove anything with any example. Nice shifting of the burden of proof there.
Rational_Thinker9119
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7/25/2013 7:32:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:20:10 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 6:35:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/25/2013 5:08:55 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 2:05:20 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/25/2013 1:32:45 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:52:10 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/24/2013 5:40:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/24/2013 3:23:10 PM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
It actually depends, there are different followings of Buddhism, kind of like demoninations of Christianity. I think certain kinds of Buddhists, like some Pacific Islanders, believe in dieties, but not omnipotent ones. More like demi-gods or angels. They're people who could have achieved Nirvana but chose to reincarnate so as to help the rest of the world instead. On the other hand there's also Buddhism without those, where its just the philosophy and the specific beliefs about reincarnation and the afterlife. In all versions though, there's something that they sort of consider like a God, but isn't in the same way as Monotheistic religions see it. God is more like the collective conscience of the Universe, which is to combined whole of everything physical and metaphysical that exists. This God is what you become a part of when you achieve transcendence.

So basically Buddhism doesn't give a cause to the existence of the universe ?

That's exactly like asking for a cause to the existence of God.

No, universe isn't infinite, God is.As universe isn't infinite it needs a cause. and the infinite cause is called God. if something is infinite it cannot have a cause right ?

What does "infinite" have to do with anything? Something infinite can have a cause.

If it has a cause it has a beginning and isn't infinite any longerOr you have an example ?!.

Examples don't mean anything. We don't have examples of minds that don't depend on brains, does that mean God does not exist?

I meant a counter example to kill my axiom: "any infinite being does not need a cause", 'infinite being' being any thing with infinite past and infinite future. if it never started then none instigated it !

Something infinite, in that sense, cannot be created, but it can still be caused in a sense that it sustained in being by something external. If the universe had no beginning, with an infinite past, it could still be causally dependent upon something sustaining it. Meaning, that if that thing sustaining it was not there, the universe would not be there. Whether the past is finite or not makes no difference.
Fruitytree
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7/25/2013 7:32:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:28:32 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

That's not an axiom, it's a bare-assertion. You need reasons to back up your assertions, I do not need to prove anything with any example. Nice shifting of the burden of proof there.

Nice escape, works all the time!
Rational_Thinker9119
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7/25/2013 7:33:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:32:39 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 7:28:32 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

That's not an axiom, it's a bare-assertion. You need reasons to back up your assertions, I do not need to prove anything with any example. Nice shifting of the burden of proof there.

Nice escape, works all the time!

I did not escape. Read my last post, I engaged your contention sufficiently.
Rational_Thinker9119
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7/25/2013 7:34:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:32:39 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/25/2013 7:28:32 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

That's not an axiom, it's a bare-assertion. You need reasons to back up your assertions, I do not need to prove anything with any example. Nice shifting of the burden of proof there.

Nice escape, works all the time!

So, something with an infinite past cannot be caused in a sense that it has a beginning point of creation, but caused in a sense that there is something sustaining it in being. I agree that it's in no way necessary, but still possible.
Fruitytree
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7/25/2013 7:38:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:32:04 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

Something infinite, in that sense, cannot be created, but it can still be caused in a sense that it sustained in being by something external. If the universe had no beginning, with an infinite past, it could still be causally dependent upon something sustaining it. Meaning, that if that thing sustaining it was not there, the universe would not be there. Whether the past is finite or not makes no difference.

Why do you give as example the universe if we both agree it's finite ?!Talk about time, it is infinite and we agree about this, in the case of time wouldn't exist without God, I don't know if this can mean God created time, or just time being part of God, as an attribute of God. so here time doesn't need a cause to be, but just is as part of the understanding of God.