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God"s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God"

GreatestIam
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7/26/2013 8:20:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
God"s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God"s second command to accomplish the first.

Eden is a rather easy myth to follow if you are not a Christian and do not see a fall but the elevation that the Jews had originally written into that story. Jews thought that man having his eyes opened and gaining God"s moral sense was a good thing.

Christians do not and ignore the bible that says that that moral sense is the number one priority we are supposed to be working on. Be ye as God.

God told A & E to reproduce in Genesis 1. That was for the two people made of clay. Most Christians do not take the Lilith myth as real for Genesis 1 and would rather believe that God created woman as an afterthought with Adam"s rib. Dumb to dumber.

Genesis 2 shows a rather stupid omission for a God who does not seem to know that a human male needs a human female to reproduce.

Yet God not only failed to give Adam a mate, a glaring idiocy by any measure, until Genesis 2 but also did not give Adam the desire to reproduce till Adam gained that desire on his own by ignoring God"s immoral command to basically remain in ignorant bliss and stupid.

Adam had to eat of the tree of knowledge before he could reproduce or develop the desire for reproduction and sex. After all, desires and sex both have good and evil sides so Adam could not have done either without the knowledge of good and evil.

Do you recognize the truth in A & E not being able to do God"s first command to reproduce without first eating of the tree of knowledge?

Adam and Eve"s eyes had to be opened before sex. And that took the knowledge encased in the tree of knowledge.

Do you recognize that that is when Adam and Eve became able to reproduce or have sex because they could not desire it until after they ate of the tree of knowledge?

Regards
DL
the_croftmeister
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7/26/2013 9:11:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 8:20:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God"s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God"s second command to accomplish the first.

Eden is a rather easy myth to follow if you are not a Christian and do not see a fall but the elevation that the Jews had originally written into that story. Jews thought that man having his eyes opened and gaining God"s moral sense was a good thing.

Christians do not and ignore the bible that says that that moral sense is the number one priority we are supposed to be working on. Be ye as God.

God told A & E to reproduce in Genesis 1. That was for the two people made of clay. Most Christians do not take the Lilith myth as real for Genesis 1 and would rather believe that God created woman as an afterthought with Adam"s rib. Dumb to dumber.

Genesis 2 shows a rather stupid omission for a God who does not seem to know that a human male needs a human female to reproduce.

Yet God not only failed to give Adam a mate, a glaring idiocy by any measure, until Genesis 2 but also did not give Adam the desire to reproduce till Adam gained that desire on his own by ignoring God"s immoral command to basically remain in ignorant bliss and stupid.

Adam had to eat of the tree of knowledge before he could reproduce or develop the desire for reproduction and sex. After all, desires and sex both have good and evil sides so Adam could not have done either without the knowledge of good and evil.

Do you recognize the truth in A & E not being able to do God"s first command to reproduce without first eating of the tree of knowledge?

Adam and Eve"s eyes had to be opened before sex. And that took the knowledge encased in the tree of knowledge.

Do you recognize that that is when Adam and Eve became able to reproduce or have sex because they could not desire it until after they ate of the tree of knowledge?

Regards
DL

I agree with parts of your analysis but I think it falls down where you assume that people cannot do something without 'desiring' to do it.
Jack212
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7/26/2013 9:55:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Nowhere in Genesis does it say that the Tree of Knowledge made Adam and Eve desire sex. In fact, Genesis implies they already desired each other.

Genesis 2:24 - "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh."

What the tree did was make them ashamed of their nudity, and presumably sex.

Genesis 3:7 - "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."

And of course, replaced their previously egalitarian relationship with a patriarchal one.

Genesis 3:16 - "To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.""

The Tree of Knowledge brought sin to humankind not by allowing them to sin, but by making them aware that they were sinning. Adam and Eve could have had sex all day every day and it would not have been sinful, just as the mating of animals isn't sinful.

There's more...

Genesis 3:22 - "And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.""

Humans can distinguish between good and evil, giving them the power of the gods. But only when they conquer death will they truly be gods. Science is advancing, so we may soon be able to "take from the tree of life" after all.
bulproof
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7/27/2013 1:39:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Nowhere in the entire book of spells does it say that A&E were taught obedience/disobedience. Pretty stupid god, don't you think?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
GreatestIam
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7/27/2013 8:11:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 9:11:01 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:


I agree with parts of your analysis but I think it falls down where you assume that people cannot do something without 'desiring' to do it.

There are autonomous systems within us yes. Breathing, heartbeat etc.

All other non-autonomous things need to be desired.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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7/27/2013 8:30:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 9:55:23 PM, Jack212 wrote:
Nowhere in Genesis does it say that the Tree of Knowledge made Adam and Eve desire sex. In fact, Genesis implies they already desired each other.

Not in the biblical way. You are adding to scriptures. They tell you not to do so.

Genesis 2:24 - "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh."


This quote leads to God's --- let no man put asunder, as his divorce or no divorce policy.

Do you think that policy to be moral and promoting love?

What if a man beats his wife constantly. Do you think it loving for her to be denied a divorce?


What the tree did was make them ashamed of their nudity, and presumably sex.

Genesis 3:7 - "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."

So recognizing that you should not go about naked all the time is somehow wrong.

I would have thought that that went along with a moral sense.


And of course, replaced their previously egalitarian relationship with a patriarchal one.

Genesis 3:16 - "To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.""


That was God's idea as you can plainly see so why blame Adam?

The Tree of Knowledge brought sin to humankind

The tree is God's co-creator. Wow.

You forget the first sin on earth was Satan's or the talking snakes. That is what Christians tell me. I do not agree but that is not important to us here.


not by allowing them to sin, but by making them aware that they were sinning.

Yes. They developed a moral sense. Something scriptures urge us to do.


Adam and Eve could have had sex all day every day and it would not have been sinful, just as the mating of animals isn't sinful.

Yes. If one is really stupid, they do not know when they sin.
And you think this is a good thing for humans do you?


There's more...

Genesis 3:22 - "And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.""

Humans can distinguish between good and evil, giving them the power of the gods. But only when they conquer death will they truly be gods. Science is advancing, so we may soon be able to "take from the tree of life" after all.

How can you know that -- only when they conquer death will they truly be gods --is a truth about God?

No hearsay or book say.
Those do not lead to you actually knowing anything.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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7/27/2013 8:32:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/27/2013 1:39:27 AM, bulproof wrote:
Nowhere in the entire book of spells does it say that A&E were taught obedience/disobedience. Pretty stupid god, don't you think?

There is much foolishness in the3 way Christians interpret this Jewish myth.

They should have stuck to the Jewish interpretation of man's elevation and not his fall.

Regards
DL
Such
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7/27/2013 8:33:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 9:11:01 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
I agree with parts of your analysis but I think it falls down where you assume that people cannot do something without 'desiring' to do it.

Oh, sure, they can, but biology suggests that they wouldn't.

This is why we have devices like pain, pleasure, satiety, and fight or flight.
AlbinoBunny
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7/27/2013 10:12:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 9:55:23 PM, Jack212 wrote:

The Tree of Knowledge brought sin to humankind

So God is against human knowledge? Not surprising.
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the_croftmeister
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7/28/2013 1:31:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/27/2013 8:11:37 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 7/26/2013 9:11:01 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:


I agree with parts of your analysis but I think it falls down where you assume that people cannot do something without 'desiring' to do it.

There are autonomous systems within us yes. Breathing, heartbeat etc.

All other non-autonomous things need to be desired.

Regards
DL
So habit does not exist? Instinct does not exist? I do plenty of things regularly that are much more complicated than simply breathing that have nothing to do with desire, things I don't even think about before I do them let alone desire them.
GreatestIam
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7/28/2013 8:29:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 1:31:26 AM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 7/27/2013 8:11:37 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 7/26/2013 9:11:01 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:


I agree with parts of your analysis but I think it falls down where you assume that people cannot do something without 'desiring' to do it.

There are autonomous systems within us yes. Breathing, heartbeat etc.

All other non-autonomous things need to be desired.

Regards
DL
So habit does not exist? Instinct does not exist? I do plenty of things regularly that are much more complicated than simply breathing that have nothing to do with desire, things I don't even think about before I do them let alone desire them.

Habit and instinct exist for sure.

If you do things you do not desire then please do not cut your own throat.

That would likely be the result for many if we were not doing what we wanted and desired be they instinct driven or habit.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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7/29/2013 11:32:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Please let me add to this O P with the following.

I think Ayn Rand had a well-written discussion of this exact topic:

What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge"he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil"he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor"he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire"he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy"all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man"s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was"that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love"he was not man.

http://aynrandlexicon.com...

-----------------------

I will also add this clip from Christopher Hitchens.

The key phrase I want you to hear is his reference to a creator God -----

" we are created sick and ordered to be well."

Regards
DL
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/29/2013 12:13:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 8:20:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God"s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God"s second command to accomplish the first.

Eden is a rather easy myth to follow if you are not a Christian and do not see a fall but the elevation that the Jews had originally written into that story. Jews thought that man having his eyes opened and gaining God"s moral sense was a good thing.

Christians do not and ignore the bible that says that that moral sense is the number one priority we are supposed to be working on. Be ye as God.

God told A & E to reproduce in Genesis 1. That was for the two people made of clay. Most Christians do not take the Lilith myth as real for Genesis 1 and would rather believe that God created woman as an afterthought with Adam"s rib. Dumb to dumber.

Genesis 2 shows a rather stupid omission for a God who does not seem to know that a human male needs a human female to reproduce.

Yet God not only failed to give Adam a mate, a glaring idiocy by any measure, until Genesis 2 but also did not give Adam the desire to reproduce till Adam gained that desire on his own by ignoring God"s immoral command to basically remain in ignorant bliss and stupid.

Adam had to eat of the tree of knowledge before he could reproduce or develop the desire for reproduction and sex. After all, desires and sex both have good and evil sides so Adam could not have done either without the knowledge of good and evil.

Do you recognize the truth in A & E not being able to do God"s first command to reproduce without first eating of the tree of knowledge?

Adam and Eve"s eyes had to be opened before sex. And that took the knowledge encased in the tree of knowledge.

Do you recognize that that is when Adam and Eve became able to reproduce or have sex because they could not desire it until after they ate of the tree of knowledge?

Regards
DL

As soon as the body of Eve was made for Adam, the lust kicked in and Adam and Eve eventually had sex. The planned deception (Lucifer, or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) was already in the flesh of Adam and Eve before God's energy (Christ, or the tree of Life) made Him a living being.

However, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which gave us this delusional world to live in, kept man from knowing Christ, or their true created selves within the mind of our Creator. It wouldn't be until the first saint was placed in the flesh as a witness to Christ, would God's people hear about the true nature of man's existence and God's plan for us in the future.

All us saints got the same knowledge of God (Christ) to understand who we are and how we were created, besides how we'll live in the next age. If you're a true believer, you will listen to us speak the gospel to you. If you're an unbeliever, you will reject God's voice and listen to your own selfish flesh tell you lies as you read the scriptures.
v3nesl
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7/29/2013 1:55:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/29/2013 12:38:05 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Always good to hear from those of your ilk.

You do my work for me.

Regards
DL

And what is your work?

I note that your sources, Ayn Rand and Christopher Hitchens, are dead. I'd much prefer to listen to someone who offers a way to avoid being dead.
This space for rent.
GreatestIam
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7/29/2013 2:11:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/29/2013 1:55:14 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/29/2013 12:38:05 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Always good to hear from those of your ilk.

You do my work for me.

Regards
DL

And what is your work?

I note that your sources, Ayn Rand and Christopher Hitchens, are dead. I'd much prefer to listen to someone who offers a way to avoid being dead.

Done. Send me a check and I will tell you whatever you want to hear.

That is what churches do.

Do not bring your brain though.

Regards
DL
bornofgod
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7/29/2013 3:56:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/29/2013 11:32:39 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Please let me add to this O P with the following.

I think Ayn Rand had a well-written discussion of this exact topic:

What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge"he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil"he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor"he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire"he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy"all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man"s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was"that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love"he was not man.

http://aynrandlexicon.com...


-----------------------


I will also add this clip from Christopher Hitchens.

The key phrase I want you to hear is his reference to a creator God -----

" we are created sick and ordered to be well."



Regards
DL

God created a delusion in the minds of His people with false information (tree of the knowledge of good and evil) within the elments of their flesh. Everything is made up of energy, whether it be energy without entropy (Christ) or with entropy (Lucifer and the beast).

It's this entropy that causes confusion in the minds of men that kept them from knowing who their invisible nature was. It's just recently that God used science to help us understand who we are and how He created us. Religion kept man far from the Truth during the past thousands of years that man has existed since the flood. This is the time that God's plan called the "beast" was put into action to teach men how to build things until we had the latest technology to understand who we are. Now we know we're just the thoughts of God converted into wavebits of energy so we can go on to the next age.
v3nesl
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7/30/2013 7:58:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/29/2013 2:11:46 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 7/29/2013 1:55:14 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/29/2013 12:38:05 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Always good to hear from those of your ilk.

You do my work for me.

Regards
DL

And what is your work?

I note that your sources, Ayn Rand and Christopher Hitchens, are dead. I'd much prefer to listen to someone who offers a way to avoid being dead.

Done. Send me a check and I will tell you whatever you want to hear.

Why don't you get a job as a pastor if you think it's such a great deal? Most pastors get paid below market rates for their education and skill levels, and work all hours of the night and day listening to people at their worst times.


Do not bring your brain though.


Yeah, that was the temptation, wasn't it? "You shall be as gods, knowing" But it was a lie, you see, it doesn't really make you smarter. You've been suckered, actually.
This space for rent.
bulproof
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7/30/2013 8:08:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/29/2013 1:55:14 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 7/29/2013 12:38:05 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Always good to hear from those of your ilk.

You do my work for me.

Regards
DL

And what is your work?

I note that your sources, Ayn Rand and Christopher Hitchens, are dead. I'd much prefer to listen to someone who offers a way to avoid being dead.

hahahahahaha have you found anyone? They are charlatans if you have. Here is a little secret, well maybe not a secret since 100 billion people have already experienced (that's every person who has ever lived) death. Everybody does it, don't feel special. There ain't anyway to avoid being dead, other than not being conceived. Too late. LOL
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
GreatestIam
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7/30/2013 8:27:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
John 11; 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Seems that even Jesus did not believe in himself. He died.

Regards
DL
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/30/2013 10:05:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/26/2013 8:20:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God"s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God"s second command to accomplish the first.

Eden is a rather easy myth to follow if you are not a Christian and do not see a fall but the elevation that the Jews had originally written into that story. Jews thought that man having his eyes opened and gaining God"s moral sense was a good thing.

Christians do not and ignore the bible that says that that moral sense is the number one priority we are supposed to be working on. Be ye as God.

God told A & E to reproduce in Genesis 1. That was for the two people made of clay. Most Christians do not take the Lilith myth as real for Genesis 1 and would rather believe that God created woman as an afterthought with Adam"s rib. Dumb to dumber.

Genesis 2 shows a rather stupid omission for a God who does not seem to know that a human male needs a human female to reproduce.

Yet God not only failed to give Adam a mate, a glaring idiocy by any measure, until Genesis 2 but also did not give Adam the desire to reproduce till Adam gained that desire on his own by ignoring God"s immoral command to basically remain in ignorant bliss and stupid.

Adam had to eat of the tree of knowledge before he could reproduce or develop the desire for reproduction and sex. After all, desires and sex both have good and evil sides so Adam could not have done either without the knowledge of good and evil.

Do you recognize the truth in A & E not being able to do God"s first command to reproduce without first eating of the tree of knowledge?

Adam and Eve"s eyes had to be opened before sex. And that took the knowledge encased in the tree of knowledge.

Do you recognize that that is when Adam and Eve became able to reproduce or have sex because they could not desire it until after they ate of the tree of knowledge?

Regards
DL

My biggest questions are, why did God test Adam and Eve with a moral choice before they had a knowledge of good and evil?

Why do we have to pay for their bad choices?
GreatestIam
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7/30/2013 11:29:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dan

It is all about creating guilt and fear.

That is from the Christian fall perspective and not the Jewish original of our elevation.

I would say that Christians are under the conditions you state because the Church saw that view and interpretation as a good way to have people open their purses and pay to have the churches raise them up.

No one will pay if they do not feel guilt and fear.
Remember indulgences.

Regards
DL
atheismo
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7/30/2013 12:06:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
tgeres no scientific evience for eden. some ppl think eden was in mesopotama but i dont even think apple trees grow thre.

if aple trees dont grow there then there couldnt be a garden of eden there.

also i think the snakes that live there are just snakes not serpents. they probably dont even climb the trees there.

so eden probably doesnt exist and im not even looking up sources im seriously just using my head.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan
GreatestIam
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7/30/2013 1:37:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 12:06:54 PM, atheismo wrote:
tgeres no scientific evience for eden. some ppl think eden was in mesopotama but i dont even think apple trees grow thre.

if aple trees dont grow there then there couldnt be a garden of eden there.

also i think the snakes that live there are just snakes not serpents. they probably dont even climb the trees there.

so eden probably doesnt exist and im not even looking up sources im seriously just using my head.

You are correct for the Eden in scriptures.

Eden was real though but not quites as the bible shows it.

Have a look at what is likely the root of the myth.

Regards
DL