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bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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7/30/2013 4:05:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What did you believe in before you read about or were told about the particular god you believe in.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/30/2013 4:43:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was born a Muslim, but I moved from a group that basically don't attach importance to deeds and claim faith is in the heart-as to say faith is a static matter whatever deeds you do- to a more orthodox group who do count deeds as part of the fait-as to say faith isn't static it grows according to one's deeds and can increase or decrease-
bulproof
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7/30/2013 8:02:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 4:43:08 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
I was born a Muslim, but I moved from a group that basically don't attach importance to deeds and claim faith is in the heart-as to say faith is a static matter whatever deeds you do- to a more orthodox group who do count deeds as part of the fait-as to say faith isn't static it grows according to one's deeds and can increase or decrease-
OK, but I asked what you believed in BEFORE you heard about or read about your particular god? You know, before anybody ever told you about god?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/30/2013 10:55:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 4:05:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
What did you believe in before you read about or were told about the particular god you believe in.

Can anyone actually remember that far back? I certainly can't.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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7/30/2013 11:18:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 8:02:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/30/2013 4:43:08 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
I was born a Muslim, but I moved from a group that basically don't attach importance to deeds and claim faith is in the heart-as to say faith is a static matter whatever deeds you do- to a more orthodox group who do count deeds as part of the fait-as to say faith isn't static it grows according to one's deeds and can increase or decrease-
OK, but I asked what you believed in BEFORE you heard about or read about your particular god? You know, before anybody ever told you about god?

I was raised in a non-practicing Muslim family, but I don't recall I believed something different then I do now, that there is a creator. we're talking about when I was 4-5 the limit of my memory.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/30/2013 11:23:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 4:05:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
What did you believe in before you read about or were told about the particular god you believe in.

Santa Claus.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/30/2013 1:07:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 11:23:44 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/30/2013 4:05:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
What did you believe in before you read about or were told about the particular god you believe in.

Santa Claus.

LOL.

I have to admit I don't remember ever believing in Santa Claus. I wanted to but somehow none of it made sense.

One of the biggest disappointments of my life, the reason I was unable to trust my father, was his insistence that Santa Claus existed despite the evidence against. I don't recall my mother saying much about it, but had she done so I would have assumed she was simply going along with my father for the sake of peace and quiet.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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7/30/2013 1:14:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 11:18:24 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/30/2013 8:02:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/30/2013 4:43:08 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
I was born a Muslim, but I moved from a group that basically don't attach importance to deeds and claim faith is in the heart-as to say faith is a static matter whatever deeds you do- to a more orthodox group who do count deeds as part of the fait-as to say faith isn't static it grows according to one's deeds and can increase or decrease-
OK, but I asked what you believed in BEFORE you heard about or read about your particular god? You know, before anybody ever told you about god?

I was raised in a non-practicing Muslim family, but I don't recall I believed something different then I do now, that there is a creator. we're talking about when I was 4-5 the limit of my memory.
WOW, so from the time you left the womb, or even before, you believed in a creator god? That is incredible. Did you also pray 5 times a day and did you also know that this creator was called Allah? Or did you have a different name for it?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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7/30/2013 1:17:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 11:18:24 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 7/30/2013 8:02:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/30/2013 4:43:08 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
I was born a Muslim, but I moved from a group that basically don't attach importance to deeds and claim faith is in the heart-as to say faith is a static matter whatever deeds you do- to a more orthodox group who do count deeds as part of the fait-as to say faith isn't static it grows according to one's deeds and can increase or decrease-
OK, but I asked what you believed in BEFORE you heard about or read about your particular god? You know, before anybody ever told you about god?

I was raised in a non-practicing Muslim family, but I don't recall I believed something different then I do now, that there is a creator. we're talking about when I was 4-5 the limit of my memory.

My memory doesn't really extend back before my seven year.

My family was Church of England, I very rapidly realised that my father was a complete hypocrite, whereas my mother's belief in God was sincere, if somewhat misguided.

I developed my basic religious beliefs simply by reading the Bible in bed at night as a child over and over again, though I only had the new Testament to read. However, I got to know it very well, though ironically, I have always been much better at remembering the substance of Scripture rather than chapter and verse, but is still the same to this day.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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7/30/2013 1:17:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:07:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 11:23:44 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/30/2013 4:05:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
What did you believe in before you read about or were told about the particular god you believe in.

Santa Claus.

LOL.

I have to admit I don't remember ever believing in Santa Claus. I wanted to but somehow none of it made sense.

One of the biggest disappointments of my life, the reason I was unable to trust my father, was his insistence that Santa Claus existed despite the evidence against. I don't recall my mother saying much about it, but had she done so I would have assumed she was simply going along with my father for the sake of peace and quiet.

I didn't ask you about santa old fella. What I asked was what did you believe in before you had ever heard or read of your god? What did you believe before that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...
MadCornishBiker
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7/30/2013 1:38:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

I think that same people are actually born with a belief in God is probably something of an exaggeration. However, we were created with a need for God, which is probably why Jesus said, as the first of what are known as the Beatitudes:

Matthew 5:3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

That could explain why I have yet to meet a truly happy atheist. For some reason a great many of them appear to be bitter about religion. Certainly the happiest period of my life, which fortunately only lasted for a few years, was when I lost sight of my spiritual need and turned atheist. Fortunately for me I woke up and returned to my spiritual "quest".
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/30/2013 1:39:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
However, what do children know, right? 93% of the worlds top scientists (National Academy of Sciences [NAS]) are atheists. So, maybe we are born with this belief, but only once we gain a real understanding of the world do we reject it. So, while children may be born with a belief in purpose and a point, they are the most ignorant humans at the end of the day:

"The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it (also) seems pointless." - Steven Weinburg
Quan
Posts: 97
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7/30/2013 1:46:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

Not much of a study, really. If you ask someone for a reason, they're going to search for a reason. Did the child hold that belief before being asked that question? And how does answering that birds exists "to make nice music" imply belief in God?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/30/2013 1:49:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:38:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

I think that same people are actually born with a belief in God is probably something of an exaggeration. However, we were created with a need for God, which is probably why Jesus said, as the first of what are known as the Beatitudes:

Matthew 5:3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

That could explain why I have yet to meet a truly happy atheist. For some reason a great many of them appear to be bitter about religion. Certainly the happiest period of my life, which fortunately only lasted for a few years, was when I lost sight of my spiritual need and turned atheist. Fortunately for me I woke up and returned to my spiritual "quest".

Religion makes you happy, because, lets face it, you probably only have a mere decade left on this Earth at 64. It comforts you to think that you will go somewhere when you die (which is probably why you left Atheism). However, this is just a delusion. When your brain completely shuts down, then the logical conclusion is that the consciousness which was sustained by the neural activity dies with it. The idea of an afterlife is scientific nonsense.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/30/2013 1:50:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:46:12 PM, Quan wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

Not much of a study, really. If you ask someone for a reason, they're going to search for a reason. Did the child hold that belief before being asked that question? And how does answering that birds exists "to make nice music" imply belief in God?

Because, if the bird has a purpose, then that directly implies God.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/30/2013 1:52:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:38:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

I think that same people are actually born with a belief in God is probably something of an exaggeration. However, we were created with a need for God, which is probably why Jesus said, as the first of what are known as the Beatitudes:

Matthew 5:3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

That could explain why I have yet to meet a truly happy atheist. For some reason a great many of them appear to be bitter about religion. Certainly the happiest period of my life, which fortunately only lasted for a few years, was when I lost sight of my spiritual need and turned atheist. Fortunately for me I woke up and returned to my spiritual "quest".

Death isn't a big deal, it's nothing to be scared of. You don't need any spiritual "quest" (whatever the hell that means).
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/30/2013 1:53:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:46:12 PM, Quan wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

Not much of a study, really. If you ask someone for a reason, they're going to search for a reason. Did the child hold that belief before being asked that question? And how does answering that birds exists "to make nice music" imply belief in God?

If something has a purpose, doesn't it have to have a purpose to someone?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/30/2013 2:18:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:49:20 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:38:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

I think that same people are actually born with a belief in God is probably something of an exaggeration. However, we were created with a need for God, which is probably why Jesus said, as the first of what are known as the Beatitudes:

Matthew 5:3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

That could explain why I have yet to meet a truly happy atheist. For some reason a great many of them appear to be bitter about religion. Certainly the happiest period of my life, which fortunately only lasted for a few years, was when I lost sight of my spiritual need and turned atheist. Fortunately for me I woke up and returned to my spiritual "quest".

Religion makes you happy, because, lets face it, you probably only have a mere decade left on this Earth at 64. It comforts you to think that you will go somewhere when you die (which is probably why you left Atheism). However, this is just a delusion. When your brain completely shuts down, then the logical conclusion is that the consciousness which was sustained by the neural activity dies with it. The idea of an afterlife is scientific nonsense.

I have religion makes me happy because as Christ said I have a need for it and I recognise the need.

It made me happy as an eight-year-old child lying in bed reading the new Testament over and over and over again.

It seems to make me happy for a brief period in my mid-teens when, for reasons I won't go into, I was very angry young man indeed. It was only when I resolved my anger and return to my spiritual quest that I became happy again.

You are rather making assumptions about my beliefs and you, and they are completely inaccurate ones.

I agree with you entirely that brain activity ceases death, that fits in perfectly with what Scripture says:

Psalm 146:4
4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.

However, in a very different sense there will be an afterlife.

The Bible promises something very different, but which few who claim to be Christian accept, because they like to cling to the selfish thought that their loved ones are somewhere up in heaven looking down on them.

Selfish? Yes, they give no real consideration to what life would be like for their loved ones if they were in heaven looking down on all the suffering on this earth below, especially where it affects those they have "left behind".

I am very content with the belief that Scripture puts forward, the resurrection onto the Earth in a perfect human body after Armageddon. Why, because my mother is dead, and I know only too well that she is and is not suffering any anguish over the problems in the lives of myself and my grandchildren whom she loved dearly, but will absolutely love what she will find when she is resurrected. Even if I don't make it, though I hope I will, I know very well that she will be happy.

Also, ironically, I have had the proof of how selfish the belief of loved ones going to heaven, really is. How?

I have three sons whom I love dearly. Unfortunately,, my ex-wife has caused them to become very bitter about life in general and me in particular. This has resulted in me not having a civil word out of any of the three for almost 20 years. I miss them like crazy, and hardly a day goes by where I don't wonder about how they are doing and worry about how they are getting on with absolutely no hope of ever being able to affect their lives for the good. I might not know exactly what is happening to them, but I do know that having been made so better cannot be making their life at all pleasant or fulfilled.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/30/2013 2:40:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 2:18:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:49:20 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:38:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

I think that same people are actually born with a belief in God is probably something of an exaggeration. However, we were created with a need for God, which is probably why Jesus said, as the first of what are known as the Beatitudes:

Matthew 5:3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

That could explain why I have yet to meet a truly happy atheist. For some reason a great many of them appear to be bitter about religion. Certainly the happiest period of my life, which fortunately only lasted for a few years, was when I lost sight of my spiritual need and turned atheist. Fortunately for me I woke up and returned to my spiritual "quest".

Religion makes you happy, because, lets face it, you probably only have a mere decade left on this Earth at 64. It comforts you to think that you will go somewhere when you die (which is probably why you left Atheism). However, this is just a delusion. When your brain completely shuts down, then the logical conclusion is that the consciousness which was sustained by the neural activity dies with it. The idea of an afterlife is scientific nonsense.

I have religion makes me happy because as Christ said I have a need for it and I recognise the need.

It made me happy as an eight-year-old child lying in bed reading the new Testament over and over and over again.

It seems to make me happy for a brief period in my mid-teens when, for reasons I won't go into, I was very angry young man indeed. It was only when I resolved my anger and return to my spiritual quest that I became happy again.

You are rather making assumptions about my beliefs and you, and they are completely inaccurate ones.

I agree with you entirely that brain activity ceases death, that fits in perfectly with what Scripture says:

Psalm 146:4
4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.

However, in a very different sense there will be an afterlife.

The Bible promises something very different, but which few who claim to be Christian accept, because they like to cling to the selfish thought that their loved ones are somewhere up in heaven looking down on them.

Selfish? Yes, they give no real consideration to what life would be like for their loved ones if they were in heaven looking down on all the suffering on this earth below, especially where it affects those they have "left behind".

I am very content with the belief that Scripture puts forward, the resurrection onto the Earth in a perfect human body after Armageddon. Why, because my mother is dead, and I know only too well that she is and is not suffering any anguish over the problems in the lives of myself and my grandchildren whom she loved dearly, but will absolutely love what she will find when she is resurrected. Even if I don't make it, though I hope I will, I know very well that she will be happy.

Also, ironically, I have had the proof of how selfish the belief of loved ones going to heaven, really is. How?

I have three sons whom I love dearly. Unfortunately,, my ex-wife has caused them to become very bitter about life in general and me in particular. This has resulted in me not having a civil word out of any of the three for almost 20 years. I miss them like crazy, and hardly a day goes by where I don't wonder about how they are doing and worry about how they are getting on with absolutely no hope of ever being able to affect their lives for the good. I might not know exactly what is happening to them, but I do know that having been made so better cannot be making their life at all pleasant or fulfilled.

So, you are saying that "heaven" is really on Earth, after Armageddon, when people get resurrected in their new bodies? And you don't believe that there is some heavenly dimension that souls go right after they die?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/30/2013 2:41:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:53:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:46:12 PM, Quan wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

Not much of a study, really. If you ask someone for a reason, they're going to search for a reason. Did the child hold that belief before being asked that question? And how does answering that birds exists "to make nice music" imply belief in God?

If something has a purpose, doesn't it have to have a purpose to someone?

Life, from the creation of Adam onwards, was given to humans with a purpose. That purpose was for Adam and Eve to fill the earth with perfect human beings like themselves and at the same time expand the garden paradise in which they lived throughout the planet.

That purpose was sidetracked somewhat by Satan's rebellion, which forced God by his sense of justice to set aside a certain amount of time in which Satan would have the opportunity to prove his case.

We are very rapidly now, approaching the time appointed for clearing this system of Satan's influence and restarting where Adam and Eve left off with dead humanity resurrected into perfect human bodies and given the chance to carry on the work given to Adam and Eve.

Because of what has happened over the centuries, there will be a final test, at the end of Christ's millennial reign, after which everything will be well and truly back on track.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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7/30/2013 2:58:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:50:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:46:12 PM, Quan wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

Not much of a study, really. If you ask someone for a reason, they're going to search for a reason. Did the child hold that belief before being asked that question? And how does answering that birds exists "to make nice music" imply belief in God?

Because, if the bird has a purpose, then that directly implies God.

Alright, stop trolling, RT.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/30/2013 3:01:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 2:40:39 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/30/2013 2:18:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:49:20 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:38:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

I think that same people are actually born with a belief in God is probably something of an exaggeration. However, we were created with a need for God, which is probably why Jesus said, as the first of what are known as the Beatitudes:

Matthew 5:3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

That could explain why I have yet to meet a truly happy atheist. For some reason a great many of them appear to be bitter about religion. Certainly the happiest period of my life, which fortunately only lasted for a few years, was when I lost sight of my spiritual need and turned atheist. Fortunately for me I woke up and returned to my spiritual "quest".

Religion makes you happy, because, lets face it, you probably only have a mere decade left on this Earth at 64. It comforts you to think that you will go somewhere when you die (which is probably why you left Atheism). However, this is just a delusion. When your brain completely shuts down, then the logical conclusion is that the consciousness which was sustained by the neural activity dies with it. The idea of an afterlife is scientific nonsense.

I have religion makes me happy because as Christ said I have a need for it and I recognise the need.

It made me happy as an eight-year-old child lying in bed reading the new Testament over and over and over again.

It seems to make me happy for a brief period in my mid-teens when, for reasons I won't go into, I was very angry young man indeed. It was only when I resolved my anger and return to my spiritual quest that I became happy again.

You are rather making assumptions about my beliefs and you, and they are completely inaccurate ones.

I agree with you entirely that brain activity ceases death, that fits in perfectly with what Scripture says:

Psalm 146:4
4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.

However, in a very different sense there will be an afterlife.

The Bible promises something very different, but which few who claim to be Christian accept, because they like to cling to the selfish thought that their loved ones are somewhere up in heaven looking down on them.

Selfish? Yes, they give no real consideration to what life would be like for their loved ones if they were in heaven looking down on all the suffering on this earth below, especially where it affects those they have "left behind".

I am very content with the belief that Scripture puts forward, the resurrection onto the Earth in a perfect human body after Armageddon. Why, because my mother is dead, and I know only too well that she is and is not suffering any anguish over the problems in the lives of myself and my grandchildren whom she loved dearly, but will absolutely love what she will find when she is resurrected. Even if I don't make it, though I hope I will, I know very well that she will be happy.

Also, ironically, I have had the proof of how selfish the belief of loved ones going to heaven, really is. How?

I have three sons whom I love dearly. Unfortunately,, my ex-wife has caused them to become very bitter about life in general and me in particular. This has resulted in me not having a civil word out of any of the three for almost 20 years. I miss them like crazy, and hardly a day goes by where I don't wonder about how they are doing and worry about how they are getting on with absolutely no hope of ever being able to affect their lives for the good. I might not know exactly what is happening to them, but I do know that having been made so better cannot be making their life at all pleasant or fulfilled.

So, you are saying that "heaven" is really on Earth, after Armageddon, when people get resurrected in their new bodies? And you don't believe that there is some heavenly dimension that souls go right after they die?

No, heaven is heaven and God's abode, the Earth is the abode of man.

The Bible does teach that a small number a relatively small number go to heaven but they also go there with a purpose because they go to rule with Christ. They are described as having been bought from the Earth. The destination for the vast majority will be the restored after Armageddon.

God does nothing without it has a purpose.

Psalm 115:16 As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong,
But the earth he has given to the sons of men.

That is the paradise that Jesus told the wrongdoer he would be with him in.

What we generally know of Christianity nowadays is far removed from what Christianity was when it was founded in the first century. It turned to apostasy. At the end of the first century and got deeper and deeper into it as time has gone on, very much the same as Judaism before it.
AlbinoBunny
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7/30/2013 8:13:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Loaded question. ;)

I assume it isn't for me, though.
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AlbinoBunny
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7/30/2013 8:16:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

" Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.

He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God. "

The title is misleading.
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AlbinoBunny
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7/30/2013 8:19:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:50:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:46:12 PM, Quan wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

Not much of a study, really. If you ask someone for a reason, they're going to search for a reason. Did the child hold that belief before being asked that question? And how does answering that birds exists "to make nice music" imply belief in God?

Because, if the bird has a purpose, then that directly implies God.

God? Or gods? Or aliens? Or that the bird's purpose is to survive and reproduce?
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AlbinoBunny
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7/30/2013 8:21:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 1:52:32 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:38:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/30/2013 1:26:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Actually, there are studies shown that people are born with a belief in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk...). Perhaps, us Atheists are the ones who have been indoctrinated? Just a thought...

I think that same people are actually born with a belief in God is probably something of an exaggeration. However, we were created with a need for God, which is probably why Jesus said, as the first of what are known as the Beatitudes:

Matthew 5:3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

That could explain why I have yet to meet a truly happy atheist. For some reason a great many of them appear to be bitter about religion. Certainly the happiest period of my life, which fortunately only lasted for a few years, was when I lost sight of my spiritual need and turned atheist. Fortunately for me I woke up and returned to my spiritual "quest".

Death isn't a big deal, it's nothing to be scared of. You don't need any spiritual "quest" (whatever the hell that means).

It's a pretty big deal. You're suggesting we shouldn't be scared of dying? Are you suggesting we should avid death? Are you suggesting we'd somehow be better off if we didn't have an innate fear of death?
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Nur-Ab-Sal
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7/30/2013 8:26:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I wasn't an atheist as an infant. I mean, no, I didn't know what the concept of "God" was at that age, and I don't think anyone could. My beliefs were probably simplistic and completely concerned the corporeal world. I certainly didn't have any sort of religious view before I was properly taught Catholicism, and I've continued to be Catholic since then with a minor streak of atheism before reading about apologetics & philosophy of religion.

I don't really care if I get hell over this, but the suggestion that infants are atheists simply because they haven't yet cognitively accepted religious beliefs is pretty stupid in my book.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
TemperedEmpire
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7/30/2013 8:32:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I WAS a christian first before 2010, then I became an agnostic. Finally last year, I converted to Islam.
AlbinoBunny
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7/30/2013 9:09:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/30/2013 8:26:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:

I don't really care if I get hell over this, but the suggestion that infants are atheists simply because they haven't yet cognitively accepted religious beliefs is pretty stupid in my book.

Are they theists?
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