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Atheism, A Personal Issue (Religion Board)

AnDoctuir
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7/31/2013 10:03:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
For starters, I've always been a rather firm proponent of that the PoE is the greatest problem one encounters with regard to believing in God, and I shall here elucidate the why, as it seems it is badly needed.

People think their atheism is some logical conclusion that they have drawn, but as a matter of fact, it is not. One can see the anger seeping through the atheist in espousing his or her belief, and this actually makes it rather obvious, or if you're not so stuck up your own arse, that is. Drafterman poked at TULIP in her thread about her exposing herself as only holding an emotional basis for her belief, and now allow me to show you why the atheist is just the same.

The first conception is of God: you are born and you go wow. Then if that wow can be sustained - if you are born into a perfect world, say - it will be; but not only that, it will be sustained if it is necessary that it be sustained: if you are born into a world where the only solace for you will be the light at the end of the tunnel. I've said it before: the slighted in life are more likely to believe in God, and this is evinced by the glorious black choir. And then keep this in mind.

But the wow being sustained is not the only way it plays out of course, and so we have another instance to take a closer look at. IMO, it is a self-righteous moment, wrought of fear. The person looks around them and sees all sorts of terrors and says, "No. This life is for me and I'll do everything and anything I can to survive," and here we have a rather twisted and emotional mindset, and the birth of I.

But of course, again, it would be touted as a logical conclusion, and in your fear, it might seem as such... but it is not. Agnosticism is the position of the logician and just because you think you can explain away God and everything else does not mean that you actually can. This is a foolish notion. And so why do people believe such? Because it is facilitating and they think they can beat down any objection with anger, and then they have control, self-righteously usurped.

But that was not the only answer, that there is bad in the world and so God cannot exist. There is also We, but so fearful of each other and seeking immediately to protect our mortal selves from each other, the We is not considered, only as an aside: I can use others. And this is just rather disgusting to be honest. Now who's evil.

And before you would deny what I'm saying straight out, think back upon those slighted in life who are more likely to believe in God: there was no such control there for them as there was the now-atheist, and thus they believe in God. And then this helps to expose the emotional basis behind atheism. Both parties see the wrong of the world, the powerful turning towards denying God in their fear, the slighted forced to seek God out regardless. It is all fear, and worse, fear of each other. I mean, hardly that the 1 billion muslims are irrational, is it? More likely just lusting after control, too, no?

And then this is the mindset of the atheist - control, control, control - and it seeps into everything and quite evidently, God always at the core, boiling in fearfully irrational hate. "I don't need God; I can do this on my own," and there dies a whole lot of beauty that could come of that person, and because of that person, perhaps the world.

And so there you go, atheists. Thoughts?
Noctan
Posts: 420
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7/31/2013 12:06:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I'm an Agnostic Atheist, so I lean toward him not being real. I only do it, however, as there is no evidence to support his existence. Simple, really.
I can manage my anger if people can manage their stupidity.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/31/2013 1:57:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 10:03:58 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
For starters, I've always been a rather firm proponent of that the PoE is the greatest problem one encounters with regard to believing in God, and I shall here elucidate the why, as it seems it is badly needed.

People think their atheism is some logical conclusion that they have drawn, but as a matter of fact, it is not. One can see the anger seeping through the atheist in espousing his or her belief, and this actually makes it rather obvious, or if you're not so stuck up your own arse, that is. Drafterman poked at TULIP in her thread about her exposing herself as only holding an emotional basis for her belief, and now allow me to show you why the atheist is just the same.

The first conception is of God: you are born and you go wow. Then if that wow can be sustained - if you are born into a perfect world, say - it will be; but not only that, it will be sustained if it is necessary that it be sustained: if you are born into a world where the only solace for you will be the light at the end of the tunnel. I've said it before: the slighted in life are more likely to believe in God, and this is evinced by the glorious black choir. And then keep this in mind.

But the wow being sustained is not the only way it plays out of course, and so we have another instance to take a closer look at. IMO, it is a self-righteous moment, wrought of fear. The person looks around them and sees all sorts of terrors and says, "No. This life is for me and I'll do everything and anything I can to survive," and here we have a rather twisted and emotional mindset, and the birth of I.

But of course, again, it would be touted as a logical conclusion, and in your fear, it might seem as such... but it is not. Agnosticism is the position of the logician and just because you think you can explain away God and everything else does not mean that you actually can. This is a foolish notion. And so why do people believe such? Because it is facilitating and they think they can beat down any objection with anger, and then they have control, self-righteously usurped.

But that was not the only answer, that there is bad in the world and so God cannot exist. There is also We, but so fearful of each other and seeking immediately to protect our mortal selves from each other, the We is not considered, only as an aside: I can use others. And this is just rather disgusting to be honest. Now who's evil.

And before you would deny what I'm saying straight out, think back upon those slighted in life who are more likely to believe in God: there was no such control there for them as there was the now-atheist, and thus they believe in God. And then this helps to expose the emotional basis behind atheism. Both parties see the wrong of the world, the powerful turning towards denying God in their fear, the slighted forced to seek God out regardless. It is all fear, and worse, fear of each other. I mean, hardly that the 1 billion muslims are irrational, is it? More likely just lusting after control, too, no?

And then this is the mindset of the atheist - control, control, control - and it seeps into everything and quite evidently, God always at the core, boiling in fearfully irrational hate. "I don't need God; I can do this on my own," and there dies a whole lot of beauty that could come of that person, and because of that person, perhaps the world.

And so there you go, atheists. Thoughts?

All you have are Ad Hominems. Those are my thoughts...
Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
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7/31/2013 4:05:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You are stereotyping atheists under the assumption that they are all angry opinionated people however this is like assuming that all religious people all stupid Bible bashers. Though occasionly both atheists and theists fall perfectly under the above stereotypes it is still a little primitive to juge someones reactions and personality solely on their religious beliefs.
Turn around, go back.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/31/2013 5:34:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 4:05:55 PM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
You are stereotyping atheists under the assumption that they are all angry opinionated people however this is like assuming that all religious people all stupid Bible bashers. Though occasionly both atheists and theists fall perfectly under the above stereotypes it is still a little primitive to juge someones reactions and personality solely on their religious beliefs.

I'm well aware that there are some pretty decent atheists out there dude. It's just that they're few and far between I'm pretty sure. The president of DDO actually seems a pretty decent sort of atheist. But then, eh, it still seems a notion to abolish all magic from one's existence, which seems to have awful consequences upon love and such. It still seems rather pessimistic to me... I dunno. And then it is also still a rather silly thing to say "if there was a God, I'd know," and so it must be a personal conception all the same I think, just that these decent atheists have a lingering malevolence in them.
AnDoctuir
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7/31/2013 5:35:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 1:57:46 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
All you have are Ad Hominems. Those are my thoughts...

Indeed, but you are a fool, my friend.
Coinsruledude
Posts: 55
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7/31/2013 8:26:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm an agnostic atheist, because I was never exposed to religion until after I was old enough to question it.
: At 8/7/2013 5:16:53 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
What Frack did wasn't scummy, because honestly, its not inconsistent, its not illogical, its just Frack.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/31/2013 8:32:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 8:26:25 PM, Coinsruledude wrote:
I'm an agnostic atheist, because I was never exposed to religion until after I was old enough to question it.

and what do you think about love? I'd say everyone thinks god at the moment of inception though. Seems only sensible.
Coinsruledude
Posts: 55
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7/31/2013 8:49:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 8:32:11 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 7/31/2013 8:26:25 PM, Coinsruledude wrote:
I'm an agnostic atheist, because I was never exposed to religion until after I was old enough to question it.

and what do you think about love?
Love is a word we use to describe strong passion, or a close emotional attraction to someone or something...at least, that's my interpretation of love.

I'd say everyone thinks god at the moment of inception though. Seems only sensible.
I doubt I was, because when I was born the umbilical cord got wrapped around my neck and started suffocating me.
: At 8/7/2013 5:16:53 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
What Frack did wasn't scummy, because honestly, its not inconsistent, its not illogical, its just Frack.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/31/2013 8:55:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 8:49:02 PM, Coinsruledude wrote:
At 7/31/2013 8:32:11 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 7/31/2013 8:26:25 PM, Coinsruledude wrote:
I'm an agnostic atheist, because I was never exposed to religion until after I was old enough to question it.

and what do you think about love?
Love is a word we use to describe strong passion, or a close emotional attraction to someone or something...at least, that's my interpretation of love.

I'd say everyone thinks god at the moment of inception though. Seems only sensible.
I doubt I was, because when I was born the umbilical cord got wrapped around my neck and started suffocating me.

don't think that'd drown it out dude :P sorry to hear that though.
Coinsruledude
Posts: 55
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7/31/2013 9:01:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well I obviously survived, so no problem, lol.
: At 8/7/2013 5:16:53 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
What Frack did wasn't scummy, because honestly, its not inconsistent, its not illogical, its just Frack.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/31/2013 9:04:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 9:01:26 PM, Coinsruledude wrote:
Well I obviously survived, so no problem, lol.

lol
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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7/31/2013 9:12:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Define "God".
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sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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7/31/2013 9:31:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 6:00:21 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I personally would consider love and God to be synonymous.

Then why have two words rather than one? Especially since that is not the definition of God according to any dictionary or popular opinion?

Since God is defined as unknowable, and it is impossible to believe in something which you don't know / isn't defined: how can believing in God be the primary position? Or even possible at all? How can an emotion ('wow') be equated to a belief?

I agree that many atheists use far too much anger and I do find it unproductive. However, I think a 'logical' argument based from (any) emotion is going to cause problems.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/31/2013 9:46:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 9:31:09 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 7/31/2013 6:00:21 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I personally would consider love and God to be synonymous.

Then why have two words rather than one? Especially since that is not the definition of God according to any dictionary or popular opinion?

Since God is defined as unknowable, and it is impossible to believe in something which you don't know / isn't defined: how can believing in God be the primary position? Or even possible at all? How can an emotion ('wow') be equated to a belief?

I agree that many atheists use far too much anger and I do find it unproductive. However, I think a 'logical' argument based from (any) emotion is going to cause problems.

wow is the realization of the magic that is existence, my friend. It's after that all the other stuff is attributed. Or maybe during, as with coinsdude... I'm going with love.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/31/2013 10:04:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well thankyou for explaining my beliefs to me. Standby to read about your beliefs.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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7/31/2013 10:16:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 9:46:56 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:31:09 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 7/31/2013 6:00:21 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I personally would consider love and God to be synonymous.

Then why have two words rather than one? Especially since that is not the definition of God according to any dictionary or popular opinion?

Since God is defined as unknowable, and it is impossible to believe in something which you don't know / isn't defined: how can believing in God be the primary position? Or even possible at all? How can an emotion ('wow') be equated to a belief?

I agree that many atheists use far too much anger and I do find it unproductive. However, I think a 'logical' argument based from (any) emotion is going to cause problems.

wow is the realization of the magic that is existence, my friend. It's after that all the other stuff is attributed. Or maybe during, as with coinsdude... I'm going with love.

A world view where 'magic' is the standard is a view where ignorance is the standard: this is not only an opinion but a matter of definition.. magic is reality being mysterious / elusive to you.. Not sure I can see how this can be attributed to the word 'God' and then believed in.

Perhaps this could mean that life is about the 'realization of ignorance,' in the same sense of that quote about how the more you learn, the more you realize that you don't know? If this is the goal, being more clear in terms seems productive since to many people (and usually in definition) 'God' implies a being, or Object which can be 'believed in,' rather than an abstract recommendation about emotions / how to view life. Attributing the concept of ignorance to the word 'God' and setting it as the standard only functions to obscure what seems to me to be a pro-ignorance concept.

Incidentally, I find this entire idea of being an infant as the ideal existence to be indefensible.. It is entirely helpless and ignorant.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/31/2013 10:51:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 10:03:58 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:

And so there you go, atheists. Thoughts?

My thoughts are that this is a long rambling, incoherent diatribe based on what appears to be bigotry, where you make the claim that atheism is inherently about control, something you support with nothing more than assertion, and that "God = a feeling of wow", which is an absurd claim. You don't prove unicorns exist by saying "Well, by 'unicorn', I meant Cheeto. Cheetos exist, therefore unicorns exist".

The entire polemic was predicated on the assumption that reason isn't involved, while never providing warrant other than mere assertion. Lastly, it ignored that agnosticism is considered by many to be a form of atheism (unless it's an agnostic theism, but that's not what's usually being referenced by agnostic).
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AlbinoBunny
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7/31/2013 11:37:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 9:32:59 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:12:09 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Define "God".

Love.

I don't know any atheists who deny love, so what are you raving about?
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http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

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Noctan
Posts: 420
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8/1/2013 1:20:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 9:32:59 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:12:09 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Define "God".

Love.

I define him (If he is real, which I doubt) as a sadistic bastard.
I can manage my anger if people can manage their stupidity.
Noctan
Posts: 420
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8/1/2013 1:20:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 4:05:55 PM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
You are stereotyping atheists under the assumption that they are all angry opinionated people however this is like assuming that all religious people all stupid Bible bashers. Though occasionly both atheists and theists fall perfectly under the above stereotypes it is still a little primitive to juge someones reactions and personality solely on their religious beliefs.
I can manage my anger if people can manage their stupidity.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/1/2013 7:37:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 10:16:28 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:46:56 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:31:09 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 7/31/2013 6:00:21 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I personally would consider love and God to be synonymous.

Then why have two words rather than one? Especially since that is not the definition of God according to any dictionary or popular opinion?

Since God is defined as unknowable, and it is impossible to believe in something which you don't know / isn't defined: how can believing in God be the primary position? Or even possible at all? How can an emotion ('wow') be equated to a belief?

I agree that many atheists use far too much anger and I do find it unproductive. However, I think a 'logical' argument based from (any) emotion is going to cause problems.

wow is the realization of the magic that is existence, my friend. It's after that all the other stuff is attributed. Or maybe during, as with coinsdude... I'm going with love.

A world view where 'magic' is the standard is a view where ignorance is the standard: this is not only an opinion but a matter of definition.. magic is reality being mysterious / elusive to you.. Not sure I can see how this can be attributed to the word 'God' and then believed in.

But existence itself is godly and magical dude, insensible to us, and so surely to encounter God, whether in his entirety or just a piece. I'm just saying that we've all already met God and are now forming our opinions on him.

Perhaps this could mean that life is about the 'realization of ignorance,' in the same sense of that quote about how the more you learn, the more you realize that you don't know? If this is the goal, being more clear in terms seems productive since to many people (and usually in definition) 'God' implies a being, or Object which can be 'believed in,' rather than an abstract recommendation about emotions / how to view life. Attributing the concept of ignorance to the word 'God' and setting it as the standard only functions to obscure what seems to me to be a pro-ignorance concept.

Incidentally, I find this entire idea of being an infant as the ideal existence to be indefensible.. It is entirely helpless and ignorant.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/1/2013 7:38:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 10:51:05 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/31/2013 10:03:58 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:

And so there you go, atheists. Thoughts?

My thoughts are that this is a long rambling, incoherent diatribe based on what appears to be bigotry, where you make the claim that atheism is inherently about control, something you support with nothing more than assertion, and that "God = a feeling of wow", which is an absurd claim. You don't prove unicorns exist by saying "Well, by 'unicorn', I meant Cheeto. Cheetos exist, therefore unicorns exist".

The entire polemic was predicated on the assumption that reason isn't involved, while never providing warrant other than mere assertion. Lastly, it ignored that agnosticism is considered by many to be a form of atheism (unless it's an agnostic theism, but that's not what's usually being referenced by agnostic).

No, you are a fool. This "diatribe" was just to deal with atheism, not to prove God. Go suck drafter's dick some more dude.
AnDoctuir
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8/1/2013 7:41:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/31/2013 11:37:14 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:32:59 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:12:09 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Define "God".

Love.

I don't know any atheists who deny love, so what are you raving about?

Stupid, bro. Again, this wasn't a proof of God, but then love outside of God doesn't sound like it'd be so magical a thing... I do stand by that.
AnDoctuir
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8/1/2013 7:41:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/1/2013 1:20:04 AM, Noctan wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:32:59 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 7/31/2013 9:12:09 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Define "God".

Love.

I define him (If he is real, which I doubt) as a sadistic bastard.

Self-righteousness.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/1/2013 7:43:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I must say, I'm getting quite the number of stupid replies and very few good ones... mattrodstrom and airxmax so far... 2 against like 50...

Let's cop on with the childish clique bullsh*t anyway at least.