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Christian Evangelism = Selfish

Kleptin
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12/12/2009 10:05:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm going to put a bold statement out there.

Christian Evangelist = A particular type of Christian who won't shut up about Christianity, and has essentially lost his or her personality to it.

Two CEs we have witnessed on DDO are GodSands and DATCMOTO, for example.

Christian Evangelists evangelize or find pleasure in Evangelism out of pure selfishness. It is an ego-boost and nothing more than an ego boost. It may have the superficial look of caring for mankind, but deep down, Christians evangelize because it makes them feel better about themselves.

Being an Evangelist makes you feel privileged. Some may argue that it is actually a burden they are willing to take up for God, this is not the case. Subconsciously, they do it because it makes them feel above others.

This is also why Christian Evangelists spew bile against Atheists. Atheists threaten their bubble of self-induced egoism. Their entire sense of self worth. They have defined themselves as nothing but Christian, eliminating all other aspects of their personality. It is a self inflicted "ignorance is bliss" situation in which they isolate themselves from the rest of the world by demolishing their personality, and cling on to other Christians.

This elitism is by far, more arrogant and prideful than anything I have ever witnessed. The most condescending thing that a CE can say during a debate after a disagreement is "I will pray for you". Another example of CE elitist behavior.

I submit that there is no legitimate goodwill for Christian Evangelists. They are who they are because of prior psychological trauma or a predisposing weak-minded personality that cannot cope with social ostricization.

To be a Christian Evangelist is not much better than being a Nazi. Depending on whether or not Christians act as they should (Christlike) they may be even worse than Nazis.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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12/12/2009 11:42:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Evangelists=the most annoying type of Christians(followed by Mormons...).

"Have you accepted Jesus into your life as your lord and savior?" "No." "You're going to hell then". *facepalm*
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2009 12:23:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Christopher Hitchins on Christian Evangalism.

Questioner: Christians, those who believe in Jesus Christ who died for us, are going to heaven. And those who don't, go to hell. What is your opinion of Christians who believe that statement, but don't try to evangelize to others?

Christopher Hitchins: My attitude towards someone who says: I have a meek and mild Savior for you and if you don't like it, you can burn forever and be tortured infinitely; is the same whether they keep it to themselves or try to pass it on to others.

A person who believes that, is a wicked and delusional idiot. And I simply have to say, as someone who is a beneficiary of a birthright of liberty in two free countries, that I decline to be spoken to in that tone of voice. I will not be told, "I have a supernatural offer for you, and you can be redeemed if you believe just in me, and if you don't like it you can be tortured forever."

I won't be talked to like that. That is the language of fascism and dictatorship. And it's directly immoral and it's a very great relief to know that it's completely mythical, that there isn't a rag of truth to the story.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
popculturepooka
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12/12/2009 12:39:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I hope by "I'm going to put a bold statement out there" you meant "I'm going to put a completely unfounded assertion out there that I have no way of proving".

So, I guess you wouldn't mind if I made sweeping generalizations about atheists that actively promote atheism (Dawkins, Hitches, Harris, Stenger etc.), would you?
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2009 12:47:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 12:39:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
I hope by "I'm going to put a bold statement out there" you meant "I'm going to put a completely unfounded assertion out there that I have no way of proving".

You have just described Christianity.

So, I guess you wouldn't mind if I made sweeping generalizations about atheists that actively promote atheism (Dawkins, Hitches, Harris, Stenger etc.), would you?

Go ahead.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
popculturepooka
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12/12/2009 12:52:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What's your point, Geo? That it's okay to do it because Christians do it?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Chaosflame
Posts: 10
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12/12/2009 12:52:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 11:42:34 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Evangelists=the most annoying type of Christians(followed by Mormons...).

"Have you accepted Jesus into your life as your lord and savior?" "No." "You're going to hell then". *facepalm*

Is there a reason Mormons are so annoying?
I have a bunch of Mormon friends, and I hadn't realized it until now, but they're all really annoying about their religion, or just annoying in general. ;o
I-am-a-panda
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12/12/2009 12:55:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 12:52:25 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
What's your point, Geo? That it's okay to do it because Christians do it?

Double standards tend to be bad.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2009 1:05:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 12:52:25 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
What's your point, Geo? That it's okay to do it because Christians do it?

You've just admitted that Christianity is unfounded assertion that can't be proven. Also, what Kleptin wrote isn't really unfounded assertion. He's just writing his opinion based on his own analysis of evangelism. He is not stating these things as absolute fact like the Christian religion does.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
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12/12/2009 1:11:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Granted I have no real love for evangelists, I do think your characterization goes a tad too far.

GodSands and DATC represent possibly the worse aspects of CE. They're pushy, belligerent, purposefully ignorant and all-around idiotic. They don't have much else in their lives, so they preach and preach and preach, sometimes to the choir, sometimes to the enemy, but either way, they don't get far. Maybe they feel like it fulfills part of their obligation to their God, maybe they just want to be asses - either way, they're awful.

But most CE in my experience are not like those two stooges. Many are very respectful and enjoyable people to be around - even Panda can attest to that. So what if their beliefs are a little off? You can have healthy debates with them (even if it is rather one-sided) on it. Or you can just tell them to stop. Either way, they're not GS or DATC.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you can't bunch everyone under a label together. The individuals under it can vary wildly, and it would be proper to say that those individuals are the ones who have the elitist personalities and psychological issues, not all Christian evangelicals.
popculturepooka
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12/12/2009 1:13:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 1:05:15 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2009 12:52:25 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
What's your point, Geo? That it's okay to do it because Christians do it?

You've just admitted that Christianity is unfounded assertion that can't be proven. Also, what Kleptin wrote isn't really unfounded assertion. He's just writing his opinion based on his own analysis of evangelism. He is not stating these things as absolute fact like the Christian religion does.

No, I didn't. I was just agreeing with you to get my point across. *EVEN IF* Christianity was based on an unproven, unfounded assertion then how does that make it okay to to make an unproven, unfounded assertion?

And, you're right, this: "I submit that there is no legitimate goodwill for Christian Evangelists. They are who they are because of prior psychological trauma or a predisposing weak-minded personality that cannot cope with social ostricization..." isn't a statement of absolute fact. Not at all. :O
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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12/12/2009 1:19:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 12:23:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Christopher Hitchins on Christian Evangalism.



Questioner: Christians, those who believe in Jesus Christ who died for us, are going to heaven. And those who don't, go to hell. What is your opinion of Christians who believe that statement, but don't try to evangelize to others?

Christopher Hitchins: My attitude towards someone who says: I have a meek and mild Savior for you and if you don't like it, you can burn forever and be tortured infinitely; is the same whether they keep it to themselves or try to pass it on to others.

A person who believes that, is a wicked and delusional idiot. And I simply have to say, as someone who is a beneficiary of a birthright of liberty in two free countries, that I decline to be spoken to in that tone of voice. I will not be told, "I have a supernatural offer for you, and you can be redeemed if you believe just in me, and if you don't like it you can be tortured forever."

I won't be talked to like that. That is the language of fascism and dictatorship. And it's directly immoral and it's a very great relief to know that it's completely mythical, that there isn't a rag of truth to the story.

the man sounds like a whining child . . . "i won't be talked to like that" . . .. IF what Christians believe is true then hes saying that to an all powerful creator who has the RIGHT to tell him where hes going (heaven/hell) . . .. theres nothing he can do . . .. and denying it just means hes going to hell . . . .. sorry about that buddy . . ..
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
I-am-a-panda
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12/12/2009 1:24:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 1:19:47 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
At 12/12/2009 12:23:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Christopher Hitchins on Christian Evangalism.



Questioner: Christians, those who believe in Jesus Christ who died for us, are going to heaven. And those who don't, go to hell. What is your opinion of Christians who believe that statement, but don't try to evangelize to others?

Christopher Hitchins: My attitude towards someone who says: I have a meek and mild Savior for you and if you don't like it, you can burn forever and be tortured infinitely; is the same whether they keep it to themselves or try to pass it on to others.

A person who believes that, is a wicked and delusional idiot. And I simply have to say, as someone who is a beneficiary of a birthright of liberty in two free countries, that I decline to be spoken to in that tone of voice. I will not be told, "I have a supernatural offer for you, and you can be redeemed if you believe just in me, and if you don't like it you can be tortured forever."

I won't be talked to like that. That is the language of fascism and dictatorship. And it's directly immoral and it's a very great relief to know that it's completely mythical, that there isn't a rag of truth to the story.

the man sounds like a whining child . . . "i won't be talked to like that" . . .. IF what Christians believe is true then hes saying that to an all powerful creator who has the RIGHT to tell him where hes going (heaven/hell) . . .. theres nothing he can do . . .. and denying it just means hes going to hell . . . .. sorry about that buddy . . ..

From the man who says "ignorance is bliss"
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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12/12/2009 1:31:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
also, theres no such thing as an "evangelist" . . . .it is a basic part of our faith that we are to share it. . . there isn't a certain sect of Christianity who is supposed to share their faith. . . . .If a Christian does NOT share his faith he/she needs to question whether they are truly a Christian or not. . . .. many of them sadly that they are not Christians at all .. . .

So in response. . . .Christian evangelism may = annoying, its not always selfish (though it may be sometimes) and it definitely helps someone else much more than the evangelist. . . . .
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2009 1:45:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 1:19:47 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
the man sounds like a whining child . . . "i won't be talked to like that" . . .. IF what Christians believe is true then hes saying that to an all powerful creator who has the RIGHT to tell him where hes going (heaven/hell) . . .. theres nothing he can do . . .. and denying it just means hes going to hell . . . .. sorry about that buddy . . ..

Would you say the same thing to the Jews during Holocaust?

gr33k_fr33k5: "It's the truth. Hitler will send you to a concentration camp. There's nothing you can do. Denying means you still get tortured. Sorry about that buddy. You sound like a whining child."

You sound like a fascist.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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12/12/2009 2:32:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 1:45:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/12/2009 1:19:47 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
the man sounds like a whining child . . . "i won't be talked to like that" . . .. IF what Christians believe is true then hes saying that to an all powerful creator who has the RIGHT to tell him where hes going (heaven/hell) . . .. theres nothing he can do . . .. and denying it just means hes going to hell . . . .. sorry about that buddy . . ..

Would you say the same thing to the Jews during Holocaust?

gr33k_fr33k5: "It's the truth. Hitler will send you to a concentration camp. There's nothing you can do. Denying means you still get tortured. Sorry about that buddy. You sound like a whining child."

You sound like a fascist.

ummmm .. . . . .no? . . . your t he one whos replacing God with hitler. . . .there IS a difference even though hitler might just be a god to you . .. . ."burned"
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/12/2009 2:50:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 2:32:34 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
ummmm .. . . . .no? . . . your t he one whos replacing God with hitler. . . .there IS a difference even though hitler might just be a god to you . .. . ."burned"

Yeah, you're right. How dare I disgrace Hitler by comparing him to God. God is far worse.

Technically, Hitler didn't lay a hand on a single person, so:

Hitler kill count: 0
Yahweh kill count: 33,000,000
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
omelet
Posts: 416
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12/12/2009 3:24:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 2:50:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Hitler kill count: 0
Yahweh kill count: 33,000,000
God is #1 in frags on our server.

In other news, I used to feel that those who didn't try to convert me were less genuinely good than those who did. Then I realized that it's just that those who don't usually don't think about their religion too often (they're the non-churchgoers who call themselves religious because it's what they're supposed to do). Those who are do it to prove something to themselves or even sometimes in their mind to God. They don't just want to prove they're good people, they also want to prove that they have lots of conviction in their beliefs.
johngriswald
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12/12/2009 3:47:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 10:05:30 AM, Kleptin wrote:
Christians evangelize because it makes them feel better about themselves.
Creating any blanket statement only reveals your true ignorance on a subject. In this case it reveals your ignorance of Christianity.
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johngriswald
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12/12/2009 3:51:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 10:05:30 AM, Kleptin wrote:
To be a Christian Evangelist is not much better than being a Nazi. Depending on whether or not Christians act as they should (Christlike) they may be even worse than Nazis.

Really? So following Christ's two commandments make me akin to a Nazi how?
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Kleptin
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12/12/2009 3:53:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 3:47:18 PM, johngriswald wrote:
At 12/12/2009 10:05:30 AM, Kleptin wrote:
Christians evangelize because it makes them feel better about themselves.
Creating any blanket statement only reveals your true ignorance on a subject. In this case it reveals your ignorance of Christianity.

What I say doesn't reveal anything about me, just FYI. I don't need to believe something to say it.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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12/12/2009 3:54:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 12:39:28 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
I hope by "I'm going to put a bold statement out there" you meant "I'm going to put a completely unfounded assertion out there that I have no way of proving".

Pretty much, yeah XD

So, I guess you wouldn't mind if I made sweeping generalizations about atheists that actively promote atheism (Dawkins, Hitches, Harris, Stenger etc.), would you?

I really don't mind. In fact, I'd do one for you, but it would confuse people too much.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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12/12/2009 3:56:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 3:51:03 PM, johngriswald wrote:
Really? So following Christ's two commandments make me akin to a Nazi how?

Following Christ's two commandments would make you different. If you were an alleged Christian who did no good for your fellow man, but who followed his first commandment completely, while Evangelizing in the way that Evangelists do, then psychologically, you wouldn't be much different from a Nazi.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
johngriswald
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12/12/2009 3:57:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 3:53:35 PM, Kleptin wrote:
What I say doesn't reveal anything about me, just FYI. I don't need to believe something to say it.

If you don't believe something then don't say it. Or if you want to say it to rouse an argument out of intelligent Christians, then at least come up with a logical argument backing your statement/defending it.
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Kleptin
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12/12/2009 3:59:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 1:31:43 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
also, theres no such thing as an "evangelist" . . . .it is a basic part of our faith that we are to share it. . . there isn't a certain sect of Christianity who is supposed to share their faith. . . . .If a Christian does NOT share his faith he/she needs to question whether they are truly a Christian or not. . . .. many of them sadly that they are not Christians at all .. . .

So in response. . . .Christian evangelism may = annoying, its not always selfish (though it may be sometimes) and it definitely helps someone else much more than the evangelist. . . . .

I was under the impression that Christians were only required to accept Christ as the savior. Evangelism is about as much a requirement as circumcision is (hearkening back to the dispute in the early church era when gentiles had to be converted to Judaism before Christianity)
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
omelet
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12/12/2009 3:59:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 3:57:01 PM, johngriswald wrote:
At 12/12/2009 3:53:35 PM, Kleptin wrote:
What I say doesn't reveal anything about me, just FYI. I don't need to believe something to say it.

If you don't believe something then don't say it. Or if you want to say it to rouse an argument out of intelligent Christians, then at least come up with a logical argument backing your statement/defending it.

johngriswald: #1 authority on how Kleptin should act.
Kleptin
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12/12/2009 4:01:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 3:57:01 PM, johngriswald wrote:
Or if you want to say it to rouse an argument out of intelligent Christians, then at least come up with a logical argument backing your statement/defending it.

No. Doing that leads to nothing on the site. People must be provoked by what they believe to be irrational beliefs before they are willing to engage into truly spectacular discussions.

Now, since you're here, I retract what I said before and submit the following. Given that any act is the result of selfish desires, I submit that all of Christianity and Evangelism, which is comprised of acts, is also the result of selfish desires.

The above is a self-contained argument. Please submit your rebuttal.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
johngriswald
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12/12/2009 4:02:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 3:56:53 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 12/12/2009 3:51:03 PM, johngriswald wrote:
Really? So following Christ's two commandments make me akin to a Nazi how?

Following Christ's two commandments would make you different. If you were an alleged Christian who did no good for your fellow man, but who followed his first commandment completely, while Evangelizing in the way that Evangelists do, then psychologically, you wouldn't be much different from a Nazi.

Christ's two commandments were to love the lord your God and second was to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

I fail to see how doing either would make you a nazi or give you any qualities those who were nazi's had.

Furthermore there's a difference between evangelizing and playing God. Those who evangelize attempt to spread Jesus's two commandments and spread the knowledge of who Jesus was and his parables which teach valuable lessons. Those who play God enjoy misinterpreting scripture in order to judge others and condemn others. These people are not Christians but merely are fools who enjoy using religion to make themselves feel superior to others. A real Christian is one who is recognized as such, not one who boldly declares and proclaims that he is.
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johngriswald
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12/12/2009 4:04:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/12/2009 3:59:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I was under the impression that Christians were only required to accept Christ as the savior. Evangelism is about as much a requirement as circumcision is (hearkening back to the dispute in the early church era when gentiles had to be converted to Judaism before Christianity)

No then you were under a false impression. Those who are Christians accept Christ as a savior follow his two commands. If you love your neighbor, you want to help your neighbor.
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omelet
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12/12/2009 4:06:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Johngriswald: What religion would you label those who believe Jesus died for their sins and accept that sacrifice, yet don't follow those two commandments?