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What it REALLY means to Follow Christ.

THE_OPINIONATOR
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8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35
My Blog: Life Through The Eyes of a Christian

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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/3/2013 3:48:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So why don't you know who I AM?
THE_OPINIONATOR
Posts: 575
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8/3/2013 6:30:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/3/2013 3:48:25 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So why don't you know who I AM?

Do you mean as in you or as in Christ says I AM?
My Blog: Life Through The Eyes of a Christian

http://bloggingforjchrist.blogspot.com...

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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/3/2013 6:32:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/3/2013 6:30:10 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 8/3/2013 3:48:25 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So why don't you know who I AM?

Do you mean as in you or as in Christ says I AM?

How do you know who you're following if you don't know who I AM?
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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8/3/2013 8:41:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

Amen brother. Jesus Christ may cost you your life. Will you lay it down, Christian?
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
Drayson
Posts: 288
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8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.
"I'm not saying I don't trust you...and I'm not saying I do. But I don't"

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matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.
THE_OPINIONATOR
Posts: 575
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8/4/2013 2:08:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/3/2013 6:32:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/3/2013 6:30:10 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 8/3/2013 3:48:25 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So why don't you know who I AM?

Do you mean as in you or as in Christ says I AM?

How do you know who you're following if you don't know who I AM?

I know Christ, that is who I follow
My Blog: Life Through The Eyes of a Christian

http://bloggingforjchrist.blogspot.com...

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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/4/2013 2:38:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 2:08:10 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 8/3/2013 6:32:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/3/2013 6:30:10 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 8/3/2013 3:48:25 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So why don't you know who I AM?

Do you mean as in you or as in Christ says I AM?

How do you know who you're following if you don't know who I AM?

I know Christ, that is who I follow

Liars have no idea who they're following. They follow their father, the devil.

1 John 2:
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 3:
4: Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

8: He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/4/2013 2:42:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

If only it were that simple.

There is a lot more to it than that. Yes one has to forsake self. The the bit about hating one's mother and father isn't touch of hyperbole, and only means in comparison to your love for Christ.

I said there's a lot else.

There is truth.

Closely allied to that there is the essential thing of getting to know both God and Christ, and that includes getting to know the truth of exactly who they are what they are and what their relationship is.

Have you woken up to the fact that the Trinity is false?

Have you spotted the obvious fact in Scripture that Christ was created by his father?

Have you spotted the equally obvious fact, admitted by Christ himself, and added to by the Apostles that Christ worshipped his father as his God?

Have you realised, as the Bible makes fairly self-evident, that Christ's return is not a literal physical return to the Earth?

Have you recognised the completely false nature of any congregational hierarchy?

Have you realised how wrong the idea of a paid clergy is?

Have you realised the necessity of doing what Christ taught all his disciples to do, not just the 12, and preach to others?

Let's just start.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/4/2013 2:45:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 2:38:39 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:08:10 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 8/3/2013 6:32:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/3/2013 6:30:10 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 8/3/2013 3:48:25 PM, bornofgod wrote:

So why don't you know who I AM?

Do you mean as in you or as in Christ says I AM?

How do you know who you're following if you don't know who I AM?

I know Christ, that is who I follow

Liars have no idea who they're following. They follow their father, the devil.

Lol. Good start.


1 John 2:
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

Those 10 commandments? I thought you weren't Christian, you're a saint, right?


1 John 3:
4: Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

Lol.


6:No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

So pretty much no one knows him? Why am I not surprised?


8: He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

I'm of the devil. The Son of God, who is also God, managed to fail awfully badly to "destroy the works of the devil". It really makes you wonder...
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/4/2013 2:47:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 2:42:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

If only it were that simple.

There is a lot more to it than that. Yes one has to forsake self. The the bit about hating one's mother and father isn't touch of hyperbole, and only means in comparison to your love for Christ.

I said there's a lot else.

There is truth.

Closely allied to that there is the essential thing of getting to know both God and Christ, and that includes getting to know the truth of exactly who they are what they are and what their relationship is.

Have you woken up to the fact that the Trinity is false?

Have you spotted the obvious fact in Scripture that Christ was created by his father?

Have you spotted the equally obvious fact, admitted by Christ himself, and added to by the Apostles that Christ worshipped his father as his God?

Have you realised, as the Bible makes fairly self-evident, that Christ's return is not a literal physical return to the Earth?

Have you recognised the completely false nature of any congregational hierarchy?

Have you realised how wrong the idea of a paid clergy is?

Have you realised the necessity of doing what Christ taught all his disciples to do, not just the 12, and preach to others?

Let's just start.

Why do you believe in these things but not your Creator?
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/4/2013 2:50:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 2:47:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:42:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

If only it were that simple.

There is a lot more to it than that. Yes one has to forsake self. The the bit about hating one's mother and father isn't touch of hyperbole, and only means in comparison to your love for Christ.

I said there's a lot else.

There is truth.

Closely allied to that there is the essential thing of getting to know both God and Christ, and that includes getting to know the truth of exactly who they are what they are and what their relationship is.

Have you woken up to the fact that the Trinity is false?

Have you spotted the obvious fact in Scripture that Christ was created by his father?

Have you spotted the equally obvious fact, admitted by Christ himself, and added to by the Apostles that Christ worshipped his father as his God?

Have you realised, as the Bible makes fairly self-evident, that Christ's return is not a literal physical return to the Earth?

Have you recognised the completely false nature of any congregational hierarchy?

Have you realised how wrong the idea of a paid clergy is?

Have you realised the necessity of doing what Christ taught all his disciples to do, not just the 12, and preach to others?

Let's just start.

Why do you believe in these things but not your Creator?

Because what are the chances that he could and would believe in something you made up? Especially since you seem determines to make sure that no one else actually believes it, if they did, you would probably still claim they didn't.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/4/2013 3:29:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 2:47:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:42:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

If only it were that simple.

There is a lot more to it than that. Yes one has to forsake self. The the bit about hating one's mother and father isn't touch of hyperbole, and only means in comparison to your love for Christ.

I said there's a lot else.

There is truth.

Closely allied to that there is the essential thing of getting to know both God and Christ, and that includes getting to know the truth of exactly who they are what they are and what their relationship is.

Have you woken up to the fact that the Trinity is false?

Have you spotted the obvious fact in Scripture that Christ was created by his father?

Have you spotted the equally obvious fact, admitted by Christ himself, and added to by the Apostles that Christ worshipped his father as his God?

Have you realised, as the Bible makes fairly self-evident, that Christ's return is not a literal physical return to the Earth?

Have you recognised the completely false nature of any congregational hierarchy?

Have you realised how wrong the idea of a paid clergy is?

Have you realised the necessity of doing what Christ taught all his disciples to do, not just the 12, and preach to others?

Let's just start.

Why do you believe in these things but not your Creator?

???????????

I have long ago dedicated my life to learning about, and serving both God, and his son, Jesus Christ, so of course I believe in the creator.

I made up my mind as a child that if I could ever find the way God wants us to serve him I would do all I could to do so.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/4/2013 3:47:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 2:50:05 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:47:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:42:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

If only it were that simple.

There is a lot more to it than that. Yes one has to forsake self. The the bit about hating one's mother and father isn't touch of hyperbole, and only means in comparison to your love for Christ.

I said there's a lot else.

There is truth.

Closely allied to that there is the essential thing of getting to know both God and Christ, and that includes getting to know the truth of exactly who they are what they are and what their relationship is.

Have you woken up to the fact that the Trinity is false?

Have you spotted the obvious fact in Scripture that Christ was created by his father?

Have you spotted the equally obvious fact, admitted by Christ himself, and added to by the Apostles that Christ worshipped his father as his God?

Have you realised, as the Bible makes fairly self-evident, that Christ's return is not a literal physical return to the Earth?

Have you recognised the completely false nature of any congregational hierarchy?

Have you realised how wrong the idea of a paid clergy is?

Have you realised the necessity of doing what Christ taught all his disciples to do, not just the 12, and preach to others?

Let's just start.

Why do you believe in these things but not your Creator?

Because what are the chances that he could and would believe in something you made up? Especially since you seem determines to make sure that no one else actually believes it, if they did, you would probably still claim they didn't.

No-one made up the creator.

Many, including Bornofgod, have made up their own fake versions, but the creator is real and unique, and none of the invented ones are a patch on him.

The true God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ would not give someone with an ego like bornofgod's a millisecond of thought.

To call one's self a saint is egotistical in the extreme, and very reminiscent of the Pharisees of Jesus time on earth. because no human has the right to say whether or not another is a saint, let alone themselves. Only God and Christ have the right to make that sort of judgement call.

Christ himself even refused to be called good, let alone a saint, and if any none was, in his human form he was.

A true servant of Christ thinks of himself as a nothing, or as Christ put it, a "good-for-nothing slave". To serve him properly you have to be able to thin of yourself that way or you simply won't do it properly.

Luke 17:10 So YOU, also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU, say, "We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.""

If you seek prominence in God's service you will get humiliated.

Matthew 23:8-12 But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called "leaders," for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

No, there is no room for such as bornofgod in God's service unless he changes his attitude. I hope he will learn, in time.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/4/2013 3:58:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 3:29:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:47:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:42:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

If only it were that simple.

There is a lot more to it than that. Yes one has to forsake self. The the bit about hating one's mother and father isn't touch of hyperbole, and only means in comparison to your love for Christ.

I said there's a lot else.

There is truth.

Closely allied to that there is the essential thing of getting to know both God and Christ, and that includes getting to know the truth of exactly who they are what they are and what their relationship is.

Have you woken up to the fact that the Trinity is false?

Have you spotted the obvious fact in Scripture that Christ was created by his father?

Have you spotted the equally obvious fact, admitted by Christ himself, and added to by the Apostles that Christ worshipped his father as his God?

Have you realised, as the Bible makes fairly self-evident, that Christ's return is not a literal physical return to the Earth?

Have you recognised the completely false nature of any congregational hierarchy?

Have you realised how wrong the idea of a paid clergy is?

Have you realised the necessity of doing what Christ taught all his disciples to do, not just the 12, and preach to others?

Let's just start.

Why do you believe in these things but not your Creator?

???????????

I have long ago dedicated my life to learning about, and serving both God, and his son, Jesus Christ, so of course I believe in the creator.

I made up my mind as a child that if I could ever find the way God wants us to serve him I would do all I could to do so.

I know another unbeliever who studied all his life to find out he doesn't have any knowledge of God to understand the gospel I preach. It's the spoken word that you need to listen to, not your own interpretations of the scriptures.

John 5
37: And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen;
38: and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.
39: You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
40: yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

The last line only means that you won't understand God's eternal plan if you don't listen to the true gospel preached by a saint. Jesus was God's first saint, a created voice of God to speak for Him. I'm the last saint He's using in this world to testify to "Christ" (information without deception).
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/4/2013 4:08:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 3:47:43 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:50:05 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:47:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:42:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

If only it were that simple.

There is a lot more to it than that. Yes one has to forsake self. The the bit about hating one's mother and father isn't touch of hyperbole, and only means in comparison to your love for Christ.

I said there's a lot else.

There is truth.

Closely allied to that there is the essential thing of getting to know both God and Christ, and that includes getting to know the truth of exactly who they are what they are and what their relationship is.

Have you woken up to the fact that the Trinity is false?

Have you spotted the obvious fact in Scripture that Christ was created by his father?

Have you spotted the equally obvious fact, admitted by Christ himself, and added to by the Apostles that Christ worshipped his father as his God?

Have you realised, as the Bible makes fairly self-evident, that Christ's return is not a literal physical return to the Earth?

Have you recognised the completely false nature of any congregational hierarchy?

Have you realised how wrong the idea of a paid clergy is?

Have you realised the necessity of doing what Christ taught all his disciples to do, not just the 12, and preach to others?

Let's just start.

Why do you believe in these things but not your Creator?

Because what are the chances that he could and would believe in something you made up? Especially since you seem determines to make sure that no one else actually believes it, if they did, you would probably still claim they didn't.

No-one made up the creator.

Many, including Bornofgod, have made up their own fake versions, but the creator is real and unique, and none of the invented ones are a patch on him.

So what I said was right then?


The true God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ would not give someone with an ego like bornofgod's a millisecond of thought.

Yawn.


To call one's self a saint is egotistical in the extreme, and very reminiscent of the Pharisees of Jesus time on earth. because no human has the right to say whether or not another is a saint, let alone themselves. Only God and Christ have the right to make that sort of judgement call.

So the Christians which name one of the Popes a saint are going against their god?


Christ himself even refused to be called good, let alone a saint, and if any none was, in his human form he was.

A true servant of Christ thinks of himself as a nothing, or as Christ put it, a "good-for-nothing slave". To serve him properly you have to be able to thin of yourself that way or you simply won't do it properly.

LMFAO. That is such a sad religion.


Luke 17:10 So YOU, also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU, say, "We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.""

If you seek prominence in God's service you will get humiliated.

Matthew 23:8-12 But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called "leaders," for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

No, there is no room for such as bornofgod in God's service unless he changes his attitude. I hope he will learn, in time.

Unless he becomes an extreme masochist and reduces his self-esteem down to nothing?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
matt.mcguire88
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8/4/2013 4:25:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?

Do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself or making a point?? Sacrifice is the opposite of hate, which is what I was referring to.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/4/2013 4:27:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:25:46 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?

Do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself or making a point?? Sacrifice is the opposite of hate, which is what I was referring to.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/4/2013 4:31:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:27:38 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:25:46 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?

Do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself or making a point?? Sacrifice is the opposite of hate, which is what I was referring to.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

Yes and my question was "do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself, or making a point??? in this verse?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/4/2013 4:35:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:08:39 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 3:47:43 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:50:05 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:47:35 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:42:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

If only it were that simple.

There is a lot more to it than that. Yes one has to forsake self. The the bit about hating one's mother and father isn't touch of hyperbole, and only means in comparison to your love for Christ.

I said there's a lot else.

There is truth.

Closely allied to that there is the essential thing of getting to know both God and Christ, and that includes getting to know the truth of exactly who they are what they are and what their relationship is.

Have you woken up to the fact that the Trinity is false?

Have you spotted the obvious fact in Scripture that Christ was created by his father?

Have you spotted the equally obvious fact, admitted by Christ himself, and added to by the Apostles that Christ worshipped his father as his God?

Have you realised, as the Bible makes fairly self-evident, that Christ's return is not a literal physical return to the Earth?

Have you recognised the completely false nature of any congregational hierarchy?

Have you realised how wrong the idea of a paid clergy is?

Have you realised the necessity of doing what Christ taught all his disciples to do, not just the 12, and preach to others?

Let's just start.

Why do you believe in these things but not your Creator?

Because what are the chances that he could and would believe in something you made up? Especially since you seem determines to make sure that no one else actually believes it, if they did, you would probably still claim they didn't.

No-one made up the creator.

Many, including Bornofgod, have made up their own fake versions, but the creator is real and unique, and none of the invented ones are a patch on him.

So what I said was right then?


The true God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ would not give someone with an ego like bornofgod's a millisecond of thought.

Yawn.


To call one's self a saint is egotistical in the extreme, and very reminiscent of the Pharisees of Jesus time on earth. because no human has the right to say whether or not another is a saint, let alone themselves. Only God and Christ have the right to make that sort of judgement call.

So the Christians which name one of the Popes a saint are going against their god?

They are taking a right to themselves which they do not have the authority to do..



Christ himself even refused to be called good, let alone a saint, and if any none was, in his human form he was.

A true servant of Christ thinks of himself as a nothing, or as Christ put it, a "good-for-nothing slave". To serve him properly you have to be able to thin of yourself that way or you simply won't do it properly.

LMFAO. That is such a sad religion.

You would think so wouldn't you, but believe me Christianity is far from sad, in fact God's service is full of joy.



Luke 17:10 So YOU, also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU, say, "We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.""

If you seek prominence in God's service you will get humiliated.

Matthew 23:8-12 But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called "leaders," for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

No, there is no room for such as bornofgod in God's service unless he changes his attitude. I hope he will learn, in time.

Unless he becomes an extreme masochist and reduces his self-esteem down to nothing?

Strange as it might seem, it doesn't work out like that at al. As Christ also said, he who humbles himself will be exalted.

I simply don't have an opinion about myself, I leave that to the supreme judge.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/4/2013 4:38:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:31:49 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:27:38 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:25:46 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?

Do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself or making a point?? Sacrifice is the opposite of hate, which is what I was referring to.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

Yes and my question was "do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself, or making a point??? in this verse?

I have no idea. It seems to preach hate to me.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/4/2013 4:50:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:38:08 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:31:49 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:27:38 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:25:46 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?

Do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself or making a point?? Sacrifice is the opposite of hate, which is what I was referring to.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

Yes and my question was "do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself, or making a point??? in this verse?

I have no idea. It seems to preach hate to me.

Well wouldn't you think it would be rather strange to think that considering the rest of His teachings lol? No, Jesus was not preaching hate. Just like the majority of His teachings they have a spiritual element, they reveal spiritual truths. We don't actually literally "bear" any cross either, likewise we don't actually hate our parents lol it's just expressing and conveying spiritual principles through physical analogies or parables.
Similar to the point Jesus tries to make in Matthew 12:46-50
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/4/2013 4:57:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:50:39 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:38:08 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:31:49 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:27:38 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:25:46 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?

Do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself or making a point?? Sacrifice is the opposite of hate, which is what I was referring to.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

Yes and my question was "do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself, or making a point??? in this verse?

I have no idea. It seems to preach hate to me.

Well wouldn't you think it would be rather strange to think that considering the rest of His teachings lol? No, Jesus was not preaching hate. Just like the majority of His teachings they have a spiritual element, they reveal spiritual truths. We don't actually literally "bear" any cross either, likewise we don't actually hate our parents lol it's just expressing and conveying spiritual principles through physical analogies or parables.
Similar to the point Jesus tries to make in Matthew 12:46-50

So what does it mean?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/4/2013 5:19:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:57:01 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:50:39 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:38:08 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:31:49 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:27:38 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:25:46 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?

Do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself or making a point?? Sacrifice is the opposite of hate, which is what I was referring to.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

Yes and my question was "do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself, or making a point??? in this verse?

I have no idea. It seems to preach hate to me.

Well wouldn't you think it would be rather strange to think that considering the rest of His teachings lol? No, Jesus was not preaching hate. Just like the majority of His teachings they have a spiritual element, they reveal spiritual truths. We don't actually literally "bear" any cross either, likewise we don't actually hate our parents lol it's just expressing and conveying spiritual principles through physical analogies or parables.
Similar to the point Jesus tries to make in Matthew 12:46-50

So what does it mean?

Jesus often used hyperbole, a form of exaggeration to make a point, in his teaching. His comparing the chances of a rich man entering the kingdom of heave being akin to trying to get camel through the eye of a needle. A rich man getting into the kingdom is not that impossible, but will always be harder for those with most to lose.

Jesus saying that you should hate your mother and father cannot be literal, since that would go completely against bible teaching, so it can only mean that comp[ared to our love for Christ it might sometimes feel like hate. That is how extreme our lovev for God and Christ has to be.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/4/2013 5:26:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:57:01 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:50:39 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:38:08 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:31:49 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:27:38 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:25:46 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:41:48 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

How can you enforce hate, and why would you?

Do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself or making a point?? Sacrifice is the opposite of hate, which is what I was referring to.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

Yes and my question was "do you think Jesus was contradicting Himself, or making a point??? in this verse?

I have no idea. It seems to preach hate to me.

Well wouldn't you think it would be rather strange to think that considering the rest of His teachings lol? No, Jesus was not preaching hate. Just like the majority of His teachings they have a spiritual element, they reveal spiritual truths. We don't actually literally "bear" any cross either, likewise we don't actually hate our parents lol it's just expressing and conveying spiritual principles through physical analogies or parables.
Similar to the point Jesus tries to make in Matthew 12:46-50

So what does it mean?

Have you read the chapter from the beginning? Read the verses surrounding it and see if you can understand what He is getting at, the context of the illustrations. For me it illustrates dedication and commitment towards God as putting Him before all else, for instance say your parent forbids you to follow Christ ect. who do you obey and who do you submit to.
Also in the verses preceding, the illustration is given that God's people make excuses when it comes to His voice, in verse 7 He makes it clear he is using parable.
Drayson
Posts: 288
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8/4/2013 6:02:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

Sacrifice may be an admirable quality, but demanding sacrifice of others isn't.
"I'm not saying I don't trust you...and I'm not saying I do. But I don't"

-Topper Harley
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/4/2013 6:13:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 6:02:11 PM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

Sacrifice may be an admirable quality, but demanding sacrifice of others isn't.

Anything that I may have ever sacrificed came by my own choice, which is kinda the point of the whole thing. Would YOU sacrifice to put God first? BTW anything God calls to sacrifice comes with purpose and reward, God trades life for death. The fruit of God's Word produces life. Sacrifice is the first thing you learn when receiving from the Spirit, God gives and that is the quality upon which He builds on.
Drayson
Posts: 288
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8/4/2013 6:22:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 6:13:18 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 6:02:11 PM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:21:46 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/4/2013 2:09:00 AM, Drayson wrote:
At 8/3/2013 2:39:23 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:



If you are not willing to give up all that you have and all that you are to Christ, and put him first in your life then you can not be his disiple.

"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple."- Luke 14:26-27

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.- Luke 14:33

"Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Luke 14:34-35

So....why would anyone want to be his disciple? He sounds like a jerk.

Sacrifice is one of the greatest spiritual qualities that a person could develop, without it you are as dead as a corpse.

Sacrifice may be an admirable quality, but demanding sacrifice of others isn't.

Anything that I may have ever sacrificed came by my own choice, which is kinda the point of the whole thing. Would YOU sacrifice to put God first? BTW anything God calls to sacrifice comes with purpose and reward, God trades life for death. The fruit of God's Word produces life. Sacrifice is the first thing you learn when receiving from the Spirit, God gives and that is the quality upon which He builds on.

Most certainly not - I would sacrifice to put someone I care about first, or maybe even someone I didn't necessarily care about, depending on the situation. Even if I had reason to believe there was such a thing as "God", I absolutely would not do anything with his wants or needs in mind. And any promise of reward or punishment is both immoral, and negates the value of an individual's sacrifice - and as far as the words of Jesus quoted in this thread, I won't be spoken to in that tone of voice.

See, as a non-believer, I try to be a good person anyway, even though I have no illusions of any reward or fear of any punishment. Believers seem to require a "prize" to motivate their goodness.

I wonder who is truly more moral?
"I'm not saying I don't trust you...and I'm not saying I do. But I don't"

-Topper Harley