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"Who am I to judge?"

YYW
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8/4/2013 3:38:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.newyorker.com...

Source: The New Yorker

WHO AM I TO JUDGE? FRANCIS REDEFINES THE PAPACY
POSTED BY ALEXANDER STILLE

Week by week, during the past several months, we have gotten a better idea of what the papacy of Pope Francis looks and sounds like. From the beginning he has set a new tone, one of informality, openness, humility, and approachability. He has begun to redefine the papacy, replacing the traditional figure of the Pope"a medieval monarch dressed in ermine robes, crowned with a mitre, laying down infallible doctrine"with something closer to the Christ of the Gospels, who washes the feet of the Apostles. He has done this by consistently avoiding questions of doctrine, speaking largely through gesture and example. This behavior was exemplified during his remarkable press conference on Monday, on the flight back from his first foreign trip, to Brazil. His words about homosexual priests prompted headlines around the world: "If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them?" he said. "They shouldn"t be marginalized." They"re our brothers."

It"s hard not to hear in these comments an echo of Christ"s remark to the crowd ready to stone the adulteress: "He who is without sin cast the first stone." What was remarkable, and rather brilliant, about the Pope"s statements was that they appeared to change everything without actually changing anything. (William Donohue, the president of the conservative Catholic League, was quick to point out that "Pope Francis said nothing to contradict what his predecessor said.") Pope Francis did not, in fact, announce a change in the Vatican"s position on homosexuality or the celibate priesthood. The Catholic Church has held for some time that it does not condemn homosexuals, only acts of homosexuality. And yet for many gay Catholics the distinction has been cold comfort. Pope Benedict XVI, born Joseph Ratzinger, Francis"s predecessor, seemed to place the emphasis on sin and error. When he was the head of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine and the Faith, he stressed the view that homosexuality was "intrinsically disordered." Indeed, under his guidance, the C.D.F. blurred the distinction between sinner and sin: in 1986, it issued a letter stating that the "the [homosexual] inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder."

Pope Francis did not condone homosexuality, nor did he absolve gay priests from their traditional bonds of celibacy. But the words "Who am I to judge?" are a far cry from "intrinsically disordered." Without criticizing his predecessors or overtly changing Catholic doctrine, Francis has made the theological hair-splitting of recent Popes seem irrelevant and petty compared to the radical imperative to love others and do good.

"Who am I to judge?" cleverly upends a pillar of the traditional view of the papacy. One of the medieval Popes referred to himself as "the judge of all men who can be judged by none." Seen in this light, Francis"s comments"together with a host of other actions and remarks"begin to make his papacy appear radical and far-reaching in its implications.

Recent Popes have focussed almost obsessively on doctrine. John XXIII, a favorite of liberal Catholics, introduced the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. His successor, Paul VI, perhaps afraid that the Church might be changing too quickly, reaffirmed the traditional position on priestly celibacy and issued his famous (or infamous) encyclical against all forms of artificial birth control. John Paul II, born Karol Wojtyla, believed strongly that the Church needed to reaffirm its doctrine on all matters of sexual morality, rooting out anyone who questioned those positions: no to divorce, contraception, married priests, the ordination of women, and communion for divorced parishioners, as well as the instant excommunication of anyone who condoned abortion"even in cases where it saved a woman"s life. John Paul II, and Benedict after him, made such an issue of these matters of doctrinal purity that unswerving obedience to them became a kind of litmus test for determining a good Catholic.

Francis has seemed to ask, Can"t we talk about something else? Can"t we get back to the central mission of the Gospel, and set aside doctrinal differences? When he spoke of not marginalizing gay priests "if they accept the Lord and have good will," he seemed to suggest that we should look at people"s hearts and the totality of their lives in judging whether they are good people and good Christians.

Because of his predecessors" obsessions with the hot-button issues of sexual morality, Pope Francis, upon assuming the office, seemed to face an immensely difficult situation: a growing chasm between the Church hierarchy in Rome and the world"s 1.2 billion Catholics, many of whom blithely ignore official Church teachings on matters of personal morality. It looked like a lose-lose situation. If Francis moved toward more popular positions, he risked creating a major schism: tens of millions of traditionalists might well break with the Church, as Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre had after the papacy replaced the Latin Mass. And yet if he did nothing, hundreds of millions of moderate Catholics would continue the slow drift away. (In the United States, lapsed Catholics are the second largest denomination.) Francis"s response, it appears, is to try to find a third away around this sterile standoff. Francis resembles a chess master who uses his knight, the one piece capable of jumping over others, to escape from an overly entrenched position. Francis has indicated in multiple ways that the simple, core message of Christianity is far greater than the ideological battles that have dominated many of the Church"s encyclicals over the past hundred and fifty years. He may win simply by not engaging in the culture wars.

He has done this by teaching rather than preaching. When he first assumed the papacy, Francis made a series of what appeared to be stylistic changes. He refused to wear traditional regal vestments or to live in the papal apartment, preferring the simpler guesthouse where he had stayed during the conclave. He abstained from giving a canonical blessing in his first meeting with the press after his election last March, out of consideration for the fact that many reporters were not Catholic and some of them not religious. Many in the press (myself included) wondered whether these were simply flourishes meant to create the illusion of change, to mask continuity on important matters of doctrine. But knowledgeable observers within the Church insisted that there was a great deal of substance behind them.

"He is not just a na"ve person who likes to pay his own bills or take the subway to get around," Antonio Spadaro, the director of the Jesuit magazine Civit" Cattolica, told me last spring. "He sent a telegram to the Chief Rabbi of Rome the evening he was elected. He never uses the term Pontifex to refer to the Pope, but several times referred to himself as the "Bishop of Rome." He is saying very important things about collegial and ecumenical dialogue. He is rethinking the image of the Pope, and maybe the image of the Church." Spadaro gave some credit, too, to Francis"s predecessor: "The first big reform was made by Benedict," who gave up the papacy rather than holding onto it until he died, as Popes had done for centuries. "He didn"t resign just because he was tired," Spadaro said. "He said that he knows perfectly well that the Petrine ministry can be lived even with suffering and prayer. He said he realized that there are many rapid changes in the world and that the Church needed someone who has great strength in body and soul. Benedict made a big reformation in separating the person of the Pope and the Petrine ministry. Similarly, many of the gestures of Pope Francis have doctrinal implications."
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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8/4/2013 3:39:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
[continued from above, from same source]

Last March, Francis washed the feet of inmates at a youth detention center in Rome, including two women, one of them Muslim. This scandalized some Church traditionalists who insist that foot washing should be restricted to men, since the Apostles whose feet Christ washed were all male. But tradition is not the same as doctrine. Francis gave an extraordinary homily a few months ago in which he stated that even atheists could be saved. Francis told of a disagreement between Christ and his disciples over those who do not hold the same beliefs. The disciples, the Pope said, complained: "If he is not one of us, he cannot do good." Christ corrected them, saying, "Do not hinder him, let him do good." The disciples, the Pope pointed out, "were a little intolerant." This was wrong " Jesus broadens the horizon." But do good: we will meet one another there."

In saying this, Francis is not changing Church doctrine"belief in the resurrected Christ. He is not saying that atheism is right, but he is saying that Catholics do not have a monopoly on doing good, and that those who are doing good should be embraced. This was not the rather bleak "my-way-or-the-highway" approach of John Paul II or Benedict XVI.

Francis"s openness should not be mistaken for a namby-pamby, "I"m-O.K.-you"re-O.K." theology. He has shown tough resolve in pushing the Church in the direction he wants. He has taken serious steps to clean house at the Vatican Bank, the Istituto per le Opere di Religione, which had been used as a money-laundering operation and papal slush fund under John Paul II and (to a lesser degree) under Benedict. He has declared war against clericalism, the view of many in the clergy that they"and not the entire community of believers"are the Church.

"I want to see the Church get closer to the people," Francis said in Rio de Janeiro, where he held a mass on the Copacabana. "I want to get rid of clericalism, the mundane, this closing ourselves off within ourselves, in our parishes, schools, structures. Because these need to get out!"

Francis"s candor and personal charm allow him to get away with things that his predecessors might not have. During his hour-and-a-half freewheeling exchange with journalists, Francis was asked about the possibility of female priests. He answered without evasion: "On the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and said no. Pope John Paul II, in a definitive formulation, said that door is closed." At the same time, he said, "We don"t yet have a truly deep theology of women. We talk about whether they can be this or that, can they be altar boys, can they be lectors, about a woman as president of Caritas [Catholic charities]. But we don"t have a deep theology of women in the church."

From the mouth of Pope Benedict, the remark "that door is closed" might have been the story of the day, but coming from Francis"and paired with his question, "Who am I to judge?""it seems to suggest that there are many doors in the Church that might, in this papacy, be opened.

Is that enough? Whether Francis can truly close the gap between the clergy and the people without tackling thorny doctrinal issues remains to be seen. It will be compelling to watch him try.

http://www.newyorker.com...
Tsar of DDO
AnDoctuir
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8/4/2013 4:18:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Seems a pretty cool dude they've elected this time. I guess that Pope Benedict and how obliviously stupid he was might have actually done good for the world - left it so that they had to give the properly religious dude a go for fear of falling apart altogether, say. I say good luck to him anyway.
bornofgod
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8/4/2013 4:34:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:18:09 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Seems a pretty cool dude they've elected this time. I guess that Pope Benedict and how obliviously stupid he was might have actually done good for the world - left it so that they had to give the properly religious dude a go for fear of falling apart altogether, say. I say good luck to him anyway.

If he was a saint, he wouldn't have become a false god called the pope.
AnDoctuir
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8/4/2013 4:38:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:34:51 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:18:09 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Seems a pretty cool dude they've elected this time. I guess that Pope Benedict and how obliviously stupid he was might have actually done good for the world - left it so that they had to give the properly religious dude a go for fear of falling apart altogether, say. I say good luck to him anyway.

If he was a saint, he wouldn't have become a false god called the pope.

My friend, so long as he does good, that's all right with me.
bornofgod
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8/4/2013 5:14:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:38:53 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:34:51 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:18:09 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Seems a pretty cool dude they've elected this time. I guess that Pope Benedict and how obliviously stupid he was might have actually done good for the world - left it so that they had to give the properly religious dude a go for fear of falling apart altogether, say. I say good luck to him anyway.

If he was a saint, he wouldn't have become a false god called the pope.

My friend, so long as he does good, that's all right with me.

In the eyes of this deluded world we're experiencing together, it is a great deception to see a pope with radically different views than the past popes.

Good is just as deceptive as Evil. That's why God called it the "tree of the knowledge of good AND evil".

The words "good" and "evil" don't fit in God's new language of the future age.
AnDoctuir
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8/4/2013 5:19:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I won't be abandoning them anytime soon anyway, Brad. Sorry to inform you :P I will, however, forgive those who do bad.

I was just reading about Chuck Palahniuk and why he wrote his novel Lullaby actually and it's quite fascinating: http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's almost as if God gave him the chance to save the world having wrote Fight Club.
bornofgod
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8/4/2013 6:07:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 5:19:02 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Well, I won't be abandoning them anytime soon anyway, Brad. Sorry to inform you :P I will, however, forgive those who do bad.

I was just reading about Chuck Palahniuk and why he wrote his novel Lullaby actually and it's quite fascinating: http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's almost as if God gave him the chance to save the world having wrote Fight Club.

I know that God used worldly life experiences to help us saints understand the invisible knowledge that's revealed in our mind. Without these things, it would be impossible for us to know who we are since we're all invisible wavebits of energy.

God didn't give me a desire to read much, especially long novels. He made me be a farmer and construction worker most of my life so I didn't speak to crowds or write anything. I probably wrote six letters in my whole life leading up to the time he was preparing me for this knowledge.

My first writing that he gave me a desire to write was about an old boyhood friend of mine named Bruce. We lived in a very small rural town and got into all kinds of mischief with the neighbors. We used to like to fight so we picked on other kids until we got into a fight, and then beat them up.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I had no writing or speaking experience until God forced me into it after he revealed his hidden knowledge in my mind. Then I had to write the words he put in my mind in which I'm still doing today. It's crazy how he was able to take over my body and force it into obedience to him.

What's really cool though is that I can speak from different perspectives now. I can speak from my old past stored in memory, from my created existence called the Word, third person as someone watching from outside, and directly from our Creator, as in saying, "I am your Creator". Just like the prophets spoke for him;

Isaiah 41
13: For I, the LORD your God, hold your right hand; it is I who say to you, "Fear not, I will help you."

Isaiah 43
15: I am the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King."

Hosea 13
4: I am the LORD your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior.

Exodus 19
5: Now therefore, if you will obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my own possession among all peoples; for all the earth is mine,

Brad 22
1: I am your Creator, and Father of all. I will save you from your flesh as it perishes and bring you to the land that is prepared for your eternal lives.

Is there a wonder why most of the prophets and us saints are killed?
bornofgod
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8/4/2013 6:24:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 6:11:57 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Brad, I don't think I'll ever tire of reading what you write dude.

God has a lot of information to share for those who listen my friend.

Here's a few parables (analogies) for you to figure out. Maybe you'll have enough information in you to do so.

A man goes down to the well to get a pail of water but sees the well is dry, so he doesn't drop his bucket down the well. The man right behind him drops his bucket in the well and pulls up a full pail of clean water. As he leaves, he stops to bless the man standing there with a confused look and tells him the Kingdom is near.

If you have something to give, then give it. If you don't have something to give, then don't give it. If you have everything, then you gave it all.

The life you think you have only deceives you of the life you can't see. That life is unthinkable until you're not deceived.

Many will live in the Word of God and understand the Bible, but many will live in the Bible and not understand the Word of God.

There was a man on a long journey who was looking for paradise. Another man was on a journey looking for a place called hell. The third man walked around his house several times and enjoyed life.

Not everyone can see it. Not everyone can hear it. Not everyone can know it. But everyone will bow to it.

The truth is something that can't be told, it can only be experienced. How else would you know the truth?

When you look for something you can't see, not only are you blind, but you are deaf and dumb besides. All you needed to do was ask.

A brown squirrel gathers nuts in the fall because he knows what's coming. A brown squirrel is much wiser than a man.

A spirit knows where you are so you can't hide from it. Those who hide from it, can't see it. Those who see it, expose themselves to it so they don't have to hide from it. If they don't have to hide from it, then they know the spirit who knows where they are.

For those of you who don't understand the ways of the Lord, you were made that way. Those of you who were made for the Lord understand why.
AlbinoBunny
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8/4/2013 6:43:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 6:24:02 PM, bornofgod wrote:

A brown squirrel gathers nuts in the fall because he knows what's coming. A brown squirrel is much wiser than Bornofgod.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
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000ike
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8/4/2013 6:45:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 6:43:43 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 6:24:02 PM, bornofgod wrote:

A brown squirrel gathers nuts in the fall because he knows what's coming. A brown squirrel is much wiser than Bornofgod.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
bornofgod
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8/4/2013 11:05:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 6:46:19 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
And 000ike...

They have no idea what the message meant in that saying. This is why they get confused and make stupid remarks about them.

If you read the gospel of Thomas, which is filled with secret sayings that only a saint could write for God, you will notice that many of the sayings that God had me write are similar. Since their culture was different than ours today, their parables or sayings contained different things to describe the invisible God and his creation but it was all from the same knowledge. They can't be interpreted by unbelievers.

Here's the first few secret writings in the gospel of Thomas;

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded. Estimated to be written in the 2nd or 3rd century.

And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death." (This saying means that we saints will have the knowledge to know that death is a delusion and isn't real).

Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]" We saints go through a lot of painful experiences when God puts our bodies to the ground and does work to change energy within them. It's like being operated on without anesthesia. This causes us to cry out deeply. Once he finishes his work after several years, we are purified of all the bad energy that deceives our thoughts so we awaken to the knowledge without deception (Christ). This is when God begins to have us write and we learn who we are and what his eternal plan is. We also learn how he created us.

Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
We saints know that the invisible kingdom is where we came from and that our flesh is an illusion.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty." I answered this one above when I said we learn who we are as we write the words God puts in our minds from the information without deception (Christ).

Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live. We get believers from all ages to come to listen to us preach the gospel. The number 7 is our identification number of Christ.

For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one." (God's creation is "Christ".)
YYW
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8/4/2013 11:34:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 4:18:09 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Seems a pretty cool dude they've elected this time. I guess that Pope Benedict and how obliviously stupid he was might have actually done good for the world - left it so that they had to give the properly religious dude a go for fear of falling apart altogether, say. I say good luck to him anyway.

I think Benedict realized that he was not the right man for the job, for a multiplicity of reasons. Stepping down was a brave effort, and one he should be commended for. That said, while I was initially offset by Francis, he is precipitously becoming one of the greatest pontiffs of the modern era.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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8/4/2013 11:35:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 6:45:12 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/4/2013 6:43:43 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/4/2013 6:24:02 PM, bornofgod wrote:

A brown squirrel gathers nuts in the fall because he knows what's coming. A brown squirrel is much wiser than Bornofgod.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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8/4/2013 11:37:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@Born

I refuse to type your name because you are, in no uncertain terms, a heretic, and I therefore see no reason to acknowledge you beyond this. Whether others agree or disagree is their prerogative to decide, but you, Born, offer nothing. Know that.
Tsar of DDO
AnDoctuir
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8/4/2013 11:40:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 11:34:35 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/4/2013 4:18:09 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Seems a pretty cool dude they've elected this time. I guess that Pope Benedict and how obliviously stupid he was might have actually done good for the world - left it so that they had to give the properly religious dude a go for fear of falling apart altogether, say. I say good luck to him anyway.

I think Benedict realized that he was not the right man for the job, for a multiplicity of reasons. Stepping down was a brave effort, and one he should be commended for. That said, while I was initially offset by Francis, he is precipitously becoming one of the greatest pontiffs of the modern era.

Didn't he get caught trying to sneak a gay prostitute into the Vatican for some high-powered individual and then try to make recompense for that by calling for the organization of all religions against homosexuality? Umm.......LOL

Also, pretty sure Brad is more intelligent by far than all of you by the way. Either he's the most amazing troll I've ever met or he can perform the most amazing mental gymnastics I've ever seen - either way, quite the mind would be needed. Oh, and of course maybe he actually knows God.
bornofgod
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8/5/2013 4:30:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 11:37:18 PM, YYW wrote:
@Born

I refuse to type your name because you are, in no uncertain terms, a heretic, and I therefore see no reason to acknowledge you beyond this. Whether others agree or disagree is their prerogative to decide, but you, Born, offer nothing. Know that.

The religious Pharisees saw Jesus and the other saints as blasphemers of their false gods, too.
bornofgod
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8/5/2013 4:38:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 11:41:13 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Also, a heretic? Really?

Heretic was an idea that the Vatican needed to kill all those people who didn't worship their false gods (Jesus, the Bible, virgin Mary, golden altars, cathedrals, etc.) like they did.

Can you imagine any saints living in those days after Rome declared their national religion called Christianity?

Can you imagine me walking around Rome with my whiteboard signs that have messages against their false religious ideas and the false gods they built?

Check out www.campbellstreetpreacher.wordpress.com/ for the list of all the messages I've written on my whiteboard the last two years.
Fruitytree
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8/5/2013 7:12:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 5:14:11 PM, bornofgod wrote: Good is just as deceptive as Evil. That's why God called it the "tree of the knowledge of good AND evil".

I like this quote, it is wisdom.Here it's counterpart form Quran: "Every soul must taste of death, and We try you with evil and with good, for ordeal. And unto Us ye will be returned. (35)" Chapter 21
Bullish
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8/5/2013 7:15:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/5/2013 7:12:24 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/4/2013 5:14:11 PM, bornofgod wrote: Good is just as deceptive as Evil. That's why God called it the "tree of the knowledge of good AND evil".

I like this quote, it is wisdom.Here it's counterpart form Quran: "Every soul must taste of death, and We try you with evil and with good, for ordeal. And unto Us ye will be returned. (35)" Chapter 21

^^ The definition of rationalization.
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YYW
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8/5/2013 7:38:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/5/2013 4:30:09 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 11:37:18 PM, YYW wrote:
@Born

I refuse to type your name because you are, in no uncertain terms, a heretic, and I therefore see no reason to acknowledge you beyond this. Whether others agree or disagree is their prerogative to decide, but you, Born, offer nothing. Know that.

The religious Pharisees saw Jesus and the other saints as blasphemers of their false gods, too.

I'm no pharisee, and you are a heretic.
Tsar of DDO
bornofgod
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8/6/2013 1:24:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/5/2013 7:38:47 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/5/2013 4:30:09 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/4/2013 11:37:18 PM, YYW wrote:
@Born

I refuse to type your name because you are, in no uncertain terms, a heretic, and I therefore see no reason to acknowledge you beyond this. Whether others agree or disagree is their prerogative to decide, but you, Born, offer nothing. Know that.

The religious Pharisees saw Jesus and the other saints as blasphemers of their false gods, too.

I'm no pharisee, and you are a heretic.

The quote of a sinner is NOT to be trusted.