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The Conundrum of Jesus

Bagofhammers
Posts: 84
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8/4/2013 9:56:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is what I have been struggling with lately on other forums. Here's my problem. Jesus was/is a character who performed miracles, and enlightened people in incredible ways into the nature of the spirit and Heaven, and then enabled and empowered the tin God of terrorism and the false Prophet, Moses. That is the conundrum of Jesus that has me cycling in Samsara. He propped up the terrorism that condemned him and other innocent people to death, and used the murder to enlighten people into the nature of the Spirit, and to instill compassion and guidance for all who suffer. That is the Jesus of the Bible. The thing is, is If he wanted to give God credit for such an amazing feat, he should have condemned the evil God in the OT that had him murdered, and protected God and his people from terrorism like that. But he enables it. YHWH is his "God". Jesus delivers eternal compassion from the most evil, genocidal, jealously murderous God ever created. Brainwashed, was he? Seems like he wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to pull off such miracles if he was representing such an evil Demon. Or am I just assuming that only holy people can pull off such feats? Can YHWH/Satan perform miracles such as these, propping Jesus up in Heaven as the go-to-guy and the only man and God to love, and no one else? hmmmmmmmm. I don't trust him.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/4/2013 10:44:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 9:56:06 PM, Bagofhammers wrote:
This is what I have been struggling with lately on other forums. Here's my problem. Jesus was/is a character who performed miracles, and enlightened people in incredible ways into the nature of the spirit and Heaven, and then enabled and empowered the tin God of terrorism and the false Prophet, Moses. That is the conundrum of Jesus that has me cycling in Samsara. He propped up the terrorism that condemned him and other innocent people to death, and used the murder to enlighten people into the nature of the Spirit, and to instill compassion and guidance for all who suffer. That is the Jesus of the Bible. The thing is, is If he wanted to give God credit for such an amazing feat, he should have condemned the evil God in the OT that had him murdered, and protected God and his people from terrorism like that. But he enables it. YHWH is his "God". Jesus delivers eternal compassion from the most evil, genocidal, jealously murderous God ever created. Brainwashed, was he? Seems like he wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to pull off such miracles if he was representing such an evil Demon. Or am I just assuming that only holy people can pull off such feats? Can YHWH/Satan perform miracles such as these, propping Jesus up in Heaven as the go-to-guy and the only man and God to love, and no one else? hmmmmmmmm. I don't trust him.

You should be a Christian pastor. They don't know what Jesus was either.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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8/6/2013 9:00:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 9:56:06 PM, Bagofhammers wrote:
This is what I have been struggling with lately on other forums. Here's my problem. Jesus was/is a character who performed miracles, and enlightened people in incredible ways into the nature of the spirit and Heaven, and then enabled and empowered the tin God of terrorism and the false Prophet, Moses. That is the conundrum of Jesus that has me cycling in Samsara. He propped up the terrorism that condemned him and other innocent people to death, and used the murder to enlighten people into the nature of the Spirit, and to instill compassion and guidance for all who suffer. That is the Jesus of the Bible. The thing is, is If he wanted to give God credit for such an amazing feat, he should have condemned the evil God in the OT that had him murdered, and protected God and his people from terrorism like that. But he enables it. YHWH is his "God". Jesus delivers eternal compassion from the most evil, genocidal, jealously murderous God ever created. Brainwashed, was he? Seems like he wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to pull off such miracles if he was representing such an evil Demon. Or am I just assuming that only holy people can pull off such feats? Can YHWH/Satan perform miracles such as these, propping Jesus up in Heaven as the go-to-guy and the only man and God to love, and no one else? hmmmmmmmm. I don't trust him.

There is no evil God it in the OT, there is the God Jesus worshipped, and the commands Jesus kept, and Moses and Jesus are both obedient prophets of God,Here where the Problem is: the Torah prophesised Jesus , and the Jews rejected him despite clear evidence, just like they used to do before with other prophets (not all of them of course), those same who rejected him by twisting the prophecies, condemned him by twisting the Torah, and blaming him for which he did not do, they blamed him for making himself a God, when he only said he is the son of God, and God did call them sons of God in the OT, so basically they accused him for something he did not do, just in order to prevent him from being their king, for political reasons. what they did is not supported by the law of Moses Your hatred against the law of Moses is biased, Jesus Loved the God of Moses, he worshipped him, and followed the commands! but as he was a new prophet of course you'd expect him to bring updates for the law.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/6/2013 9:39:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/4/2013 9:56:06 PM, Bagofhammers wrote:
This is what I have been struggling with lately on other forums. Here's my problem. Jesus was/is a character who performed miracles, and enlightened people in incredible ways into the nature of the spirit and Heaven, and then enabled and empowered the tin God of terrorism and the false Prophet, Moses. That is the conundrum of Jesus that has me cycling in Samsara. He propped up the terrorism that condemned him and other innocent people to death, and used the murder to enlighten people into the nature of the Spirit, and to instill compassion and guidance for all who suffer. That is the Jesus of the Bible. The thing is, is If he wanted to give God credit for such an amazing feat, he should have condemned the evil God in the OT that had him murdered, and protected God and his people from terrorism like that. But he enables it. YHWH is his "God". Jesus delivers eternal compassion from the most evil, genocidal, jealously murderous God ever created. Brainwashed, was he? Seems like he wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to pull off such miracles if he was representing such an evil Demon. Or am I just assuming that only holy people can pull off such feats? Can YHWH/Satan perform miracles such as these, propping Jesus up in Heaven as the go-to-guy and the only man and God to love, and no one else? hmmmmmmmm. I don't trust him.

I have to admit I find posts like these sadder than any other, because they betray a complete and utter lack of knowledge of what went on in Scripture.

God is not germicidal, he does however carry out judicial actions in defence of his people.

Don't forget he's not only protecting them from physical attack, but he is also protecting them from religious corruption. Protection which in the end proved rather futile because they embraced religious corruption with eagerness.

On top of that why don't you do a bit of research into why those nations were killed off.. If you do that you might understand a little bit better. Work out the origins of those nations. For instance the wicked ammonites were descendants of Ben Ami, who was the son of one of Lott's daughters produced by their daughters raping lot when drunk.

Of course God could have killed Ben Ami there and then, but he didn't, he gave him and his descendants the opportunity of joining in with Israel. Since they refused then God was left with no option but to clear them away for the sake of his people.

Every time that it had to happen has been a small for glimpse of what will happen at Armageddon, and then again one last time at the final test.

God cannot allow things to keep going on indefinitely which are detrimental to the spiritual and physical health of his people. It would be very remiss of him if he did.

The most important thing to remember is that God does absolutely nothing without a reason. Find the reason and you will understand, at least hopefully you will.

God doesn't exactly enjoy having to wipe out parts of his creation, but at least most of those killed in the judicial actions were a second chance at life in perfect bodies, and in much better conditions, in the resurrection. I doubt you'll hear any of them complaining after a few hundred years and that.

Before you go blaming God for everything try remembering that everything that happened since the Garden of Eden has happened because of Satan's rebellion, in which Adam and Eve unfortunately followed him. Had Adam stayed faithful, and turn to God to help the whole thing could have been sorted out, but because of that we are having to endure, for a limited period which we nearly the end, the worst Satan can do, or at least the worst he is allowed to do, because some limitations have been put on his powers. If not they would not be a human race to argue the toss.

Personally I think you are not only being unfair to God, but terribly judgement also, because you are making a judgement with only partial information at your fingertips. That is no way the judge anything.

If I was simply to tell you that a gentleman called Harry Allen killed one James Hanratty back in 1962, you could jump to the conclusion that Harry Allen was a murderer. As you have with God.

If I were to tell you that Harry Allen was actually Britain's last hangman and James Hanratty was hanged for murder that might change your opinion slightly.

As I say, you have misjudged God because of not knowing the "why" of the matter.

God is in fact very much a God of love, justice, mercy and wisdom, and it was these qualities, especially his love for his people who were loyal to him at the time, his wisdom in knowing the dangers that these other nations around posed, that caused him to carry out these judicial actions.

However it was his justice and mercy that prompted him to allow the Gibeonites to join in with the Israelites and save the lives of their whole nation. In fact not only did he accept their petition to join, but when the surrounding nations droned on the Gibeonites, he sent Joshua and Israel to defend them, and performed one of his greatest ever miracles in support of them.

I say that these judicial actions are a foretaste of what is to come, and they are because that Armageddon all who do not wish to live in the correct way will be done away with. All those who come back in the resurrection will be taught how to live, in perfect bodies, without the interference of Satan, for possibly even a couple of centuries before they are put to the final test. Those that stay faithful will live on in the conditions that Adam and Eve could have enjoyed had they stayed faithful.

No God does nothing without very good reason, even if we don't always understand the reasons first. Sometimes we have to dig a bit to find them because God quite rightly apologises for nothing does not believe he needs to vindicate himself.

Why does he feel no need to vindicate himself?

Think about it, if you had to constantly vindicate yourself to people could you really call those people friends? Of course you couldn't a real friend will get to know why you did what you did, and even if they don't agree with it they will understand and support you.

God wants friends, real friends, true friends, who take the trouble to try and understand. Something that so far you have done. Maybe you will, it's up to you.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/6/2013 9:41:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/6/2013 9:00:08 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:56:06 PM, Bagofhammers wrote:
This is what I have been struggling with lately on other forums. Here's my problem. Jesus was/is a character who performed miracles, and enlightened people in incredible ways into the nature of the spirit and Heaven, and then enabled and empowered the tin God of terrorism and the false Prophet, Moses. That is the conundrum of Jesus that has me cycling in Samsara. He propped up the terrorism that condemned him and other innocent people to death, and used the murder to enlighten people into the nature of the Spirit, and to instill compassion and guidance for all who suffer. That is the Jesus of the Bible. The thing is, is If he wanted to give God credit for such an amazing feat, he should have condemned the evil God in the OT that had him murdered, and protected God and his people from terrorism like that. But he enables it. YHWH is his "God". Jesus delivers eternal compassion from the most evil, genocidal, jealously murderous God ever created. Brainwashed, was he? Seems like he wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to pull off such miracles if he was representing such an evil Demon. Or am I just assuming that only holy people can pull off such feats? Can YHWH/Satan perform miracles such as these, propping Jesus up in Heaven as the go-to-guy and the only man and God to love, and no one else? hmmmmmmmm. I don't trust him.

There is no evil God it in the OT, there is the God Jesus worshipped, and the commands Jesus kept, and Moses and Jesus are both obedient prophets of God,Here where the Problem is: the Torah prophesised Jesus , and the Jews rejected him despite clear evidence, just like they used to do before with other prophets (not all of them of course), those same who rejected him by twisting the prophecies, condemned him by twisting the Torah, and blaming him for which he did not do, they blamed him for making himself a God, when he only said he is the son of God, and God did call them sons of God in the OT, so basically they accused him for something he did not do, just in order to prevent him from being their king, for political reasons. what they did is not supported by the law of Moses Your hatred against the law of Moses is biased, Jesus Loved the God of Moses, he worshipped him, and followed the commands! but as he was a new prophet of course you'd expect him to bring updates for the law.

The God that Jesus worshipped is the God described in the old Testament, the same God that carried out those judicial actions on behalf of his people, to protect them from physical harm, and more importantly from spiritual harm.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/6/2013 9:44:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB, I assume you meant genocidal, not germicidal. But perhaps you should look up what the word actually means?
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/6/2013 1:29:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/6/2013 9:41:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/6/2013 9:00:08 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/4/2013 9:56:06 PM, Bagofhammers wrote:
This is what I have been struggling with lately on other forums. Here's my problem. Jesus was/is a character who performed miracles, and enlightened people in incredible ways into the nature of the spirit and Heaven, and then enabled and empowered the tin God of terrorism and the false Prophet, Moses. That is the conundrum of Jesus that has me cycling in Samsara. He propped up the terrorism that condemned him and other innocent people to death, and used the murder to enlighten people into the nature of the Spirit, and to instill compassion and guidance for all who suffer. That is the Jesus of the Bible. The thing is, is If he wanted to give God credit for such an amazing feat, he should have condemned the evil God in the OT that had him murdered, and protected God and his people from terrorism like that. But he enables it. YHWH is his "God". Jesus delivers eternal compassion from the most evil, genocidal, jealously murderous God ever created. Brainwashed, was he? Seems like he wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to pull off such miracles if he was representing such an evil Demon. Or am I just assuming that only holy people can pull off such feats? Can YHWH/Satan perform miracles such as these, propping Jesus up in Heaven as the go-to-guy and the only man and God to love, and no one else? hmmmmmmmm. I don't trust him.

There is no evil God it in the OT, there is the God Jesus worshipped, and the commands Jesus kept, and Moses and Jesus are both obedient prophets of God,Here where the Problem is: the Torah prophesised Jesus , and the Jews rejected him despite clear evidence, just like they used to do before with other prophets (not all of them of course), those same who rejected him by twisting the prophecies, condemned him by twisting the Torah, and blaming him for which he did not do, they blamed him for making himself a God, when he only said he is the son of God, and God did call them sons of God in the OT, so basically they accused him for something he did not do, just in order to prevent him from being their king, for political reasons. what they did is not supported by the law of Moses Your hatred against the law of Moses is biased, Jesus Loved the God of Moses, he worshipped him, and followed the commands! but as he was a new prophet of course you'd expect him to bring updates for the law.

The God that Jesus worshipped is the God described in the old Testament, the same God that carried out those judicial actions on behalf of his people, to protect them from physical harm, and more importantly from spiritual harm.

Saints don't have to worship false gods like you Christians do. We just speak for Him.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/6/2013 2:24:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/6/2013 9:44:10 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
MCB, I assume you meant genocidal, not germicidal. But perhaps you should look up what the word actually means?

Yes knowledge did, it is this speech to text program I'm having to use, and if I'm not careful as I apparently wasn't then, the odd bit of failed artificial intelligence slips through.

As far as I'm aware I know what the word means.

geno"cide noun \G2;je-nə-G6;sīd\

Definition of GENOCIDE

the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
" geno"cid"al adjective

No surprises there.

Racial and political definitely don't apply. I suppose you could say cultural does, but what you do when a culture threatens to destroy the way things should be? Do you put up with it and let everything go to rot?

It's got to be something of a dilemma,

What would you do if your family was threatened with destruction, though the only answer was to destroy the culture that was threatening them?

In fact in the context of the Bible it was not only the Israelites that were threatened but the whole of humanity, because if God's plan failed the whole of humanity would be destroyed.

Again what you do to sacrifice a few for the many? That was God's choice.

You may think that a few hundred, maybe even 1000 people aren't "a few" but compared to the billions upon billions of lives that would either be saved, or the very least given a chance to live, then a few small groups, and they were relatively small kids every group was then.

The problem is because you know so little about what is and was going on, you really don't understand the enormity of the threat, and you certainly don't see it from God's viewpoint.

In his eyes better that a few people are put to sleep in death, to be welcome into a resurrection at a later time, then for the plan to fail and there be no resurrection for anyone.

It really was that serious. If God had done what he did then the chances are that you and I would never have had the chance to exist.

The truth is you are talking from a position of ignorance, you need to learn what you're talking about before you criticise it.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/6/2013 2:33:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/6/2013 2:24:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The truth is you are talking from a position of ignorance, you need to learn what you're talking about before you criticise it.

The only point was that you claimed it wasn't genocidal. But it clearly was. So you are flatly wrong. You can make attempts to defend that genocide; that's a whole different discussion. But to pretend it wasn't genocide is flatly dishonest of you.
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/6/2013 2:34:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Just to be very clear, you said:

"God is not [genocidal]"

That statement is not true if you take your book as real.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!