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Krauss get the better of Craig last night

Rational_Thinker9119
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8/8/2013 12:14:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"This time, unlike other debates I've watched, I felt like the atheist, Prof. Krauss, got the better of the Christian." [http://st-eutychus.com...]

"Krauss is admittedly quite entertaining and engaging, and no doubt enjoys the live audience; his performance was probably stronger..." [http://eternitainment.com...]

All the reviews (even from Christians) that I have read say Krauss won the debate (even though I think he lost their last exchange). Who else is pumped for this to be released?
SovereignDream
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8/8/2013 1:12:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 12:14:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"This time, unlike other debates I've watched, I felt like the atheist, Prof. Krauss, got the better of the Christian." [http://st-eutychus.com...]

"Krauss is admittedly quite entertaining and engaging, and no doubt enjoys the live audience; his performance was probably stronger..." [http://eternitainment.com...]

All the reviews (even from Christians) that I have read say Krauss won the debate (even though I think he lost their last exchange). Who else is pumped for this to be released?

Lol what did Krauss do? Equivocate on "nothing" and espouse scientism, albeit more loudly than before?
Magic8000
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8/8/2013 1:36:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I didn't even know they did another debate. I was highly disappointed with the last two debates I watched of Krauss, but I want to see this one.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

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unitedandy
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8/8/2013 1:45:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, why isn't Craig debating Graham Oppy instead, who is apparently a moderator for one of the debates? Oppy's one of the best atheist/agnostic philosophers of religion around.
Sargon
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8/8/2013 2:14:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is exciting, if true. I can't wait to see the debate. I hope he engaged with Craig like he did with Hamza. Craig wouldn't be able to fight back against that kind of style.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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8/8/2013 2:22:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Craig posted on his Reasonable Faith page (and his personal page) that Krauss brought a buzzer or something to the debate. I haven't seen it to confirm this, however. If he did, that'd be pretty childish.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Sargon
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8/8/2013 2:31:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 2:22:01 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Craig posted on his Reasonable Faith page (and his personal page) that Krauss brought a buzzer or something to the debate. I haven't seen it to confirm this, however. If he did, that'd be pretty childish.

Yes, it's mentioned in the article. Krauss used the buzzer every time he disagreed with something Craig said, while Craig was talking! That's terrible conduct.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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8/8/2013 2:35:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 2:31:33 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:22:01 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Craig posted on his Reasonable Faith page (and his personal page) that Krauss brought a buzzer or something to the debate. I haven't seen it to confirm this, however. If he did, that'd be pretty childish.

Yes, it's mentioned in the article. Krauss used the buzzer every time he disagreed with something Craig said, while Craig was talking! That's terrible conduct.

I wonder who thought that was a good idea...
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Sargon
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8/8/2013 2:37:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 2:35:46 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:31:33 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:22:01 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Craig posted on his Reasonable Faith page (and his personal page) that Krauss brought a buzzer or something to the debate. I haven't seen it to confirm this, however. If he did, that'd be pretty childish.

Yes, it's mentioned in the article. Krauss used the buzzer every time he disagreed with something Craig said, while Craig was talking! That's terrible conduct.

I wonder who thought that was a good idea...

Probably Krauss himself.

Watch his debate with a Muslim guy with the last name Hamza. That should show you his idea of debate conduct.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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8/8/2013 2:50:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 2:37:37 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:35:46 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:31:33 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:22:01 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
Craig posted on his Reasonable Faith page (and his personal page) that Krauss brought a buzzer or something to the debate. I haven't seen it to confirm this, however. If he did, that'd be pretty childish.

Yes, it's mentioned in the article. Krauss used the buzzer every time he disagreed with something Craig said, while Craig was talking! That's terrible conduct.

I wonder who thought that was a good idea...

Probably Krauss himself.

Watch his debate with a Muslim guy with the last name Hamza. That should show you his idea of debate conduct.

Krauss v. Hamza? I'll look it up later tonight.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Rational_Thinker9119
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8/8/2013 2:52:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 1:12:36 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 8/8/2013 12:14:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"This time, unlike other debates I've watched, I felt like the atheist, Prof. Krauss, got the better of the Christian." [http://st-eutychus.com...]

"Krauss is admittedly quite entertaining and engaging, and no doubt enjoys the live audience; his performance was probably stronger..." [http://eternitainment.com...]

All the reviews (even from Christians) that I have read say Krauss won the debate (even though I think he lost their last exchange). Who else is pumped for this to be released?

Lol what did Krauss do? Equivocate on "nothing" and espouse scientism, albeit more loudly than before?

I didn't watch the debate, so I wouldn't know. I'm just the messenger; and all of the reviews I read said Krauss won. I would be shocked too, as I believe Craig is a much better debater.
Rational_Thinker9119
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8/8/2013 2:55:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 2:30:52 PM, Sargon wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au... --Krauss' opening argument

http://www.abc.net.au... --Craig opening argument

Right off the bat Craig straw-mans Naturalism. I would completely object to the definition he provided.
popculturepooka
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8/8/2013 3:26:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 2:55:05 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:30:52 PM, Sargon wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au... --Krauss' opening argument

http://www.abc.net.au... --Craig opening argument

Right off the bat Craig straw-mans Naturalism. I would completely object to the definition he provided.

It's kind of hard not to straw man naturalism. Every naturalist has a different defintion of it. Read naturalistic literature and the debates between naturalists and then come back and tell me whether some phenomena has been rendered naturalistically respectable or not. I'll wait.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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Rational_Thinker9119
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8/8/2013 3:43:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 3:26:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:55:05 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:30:52 PM, Sargon wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au... --Krauss' opening argument

http://www.abc.net.au... --Craig opening argument

Right off the bat Craig straw-mans Naturalism. I would completely object to the definition he provided.

It's kind of hard not to straw man naturalism. Every naturalist has a different definition of it.

It's easy not to straw-man. You simply don't pick out some strict definition to tear down, knowing that there are other definitions, in an attempt to tear down naturalism as a whole.

Read naturalistic literature and the debates between naturalists and then come back and tell me whether some phenomena has been rendered naturalistically respectable or not. I'll wait.

I don't follow....What the heck do you mean by "some phenomena has been rendered naturalistically respectable?". What phenomenon are you talking about?
popculturepooka
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8/8/2013 4:36:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 3:43:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/8/2013 3:26:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:55:05 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/8/2013 2:30:52 PM, Sargon wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au... --Krauss' opening argument

http://www.abc.net.au... --Craig opening argument

Right off the bat Craig straw-mans Naturalism. I would completely object to the definition he provided.

It's kind of hard not to straw man naturalism. Every naturalist has a different definition of it.

It's easy not to straw-man. You simply don't pick out some strict definition to tear down, knowing that there are other definitions, in an attempt to tear down naturalism as a whole.

Read naturalistic literature and the debates between naturalists and then come back and tell me whether some phenomena has been rendered naturalistically respectable or not. I'll wait.

I don't follow....What the heck do you mean by "some phenomena has been rendered naturalistically respectable?". What phenomenon are you talking about?

Lol that was tongue in cheek. Meant to put a :p in there.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Rational_Thinker9119
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8/8/2013 5:47:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 4:04:44 PM, Sargon wrote:
Apparently Krauss wouldn't let Craig even finish a sentence.

That's pretty sad if true. I wonder when the video will get released...
Sargon
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8/8/2013 5:59:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 5:47:08 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/8/2013 4:04:44 PM, Sargon wrote:
Apparently Krauss wouldn't let Craig even finish a sentence.

That's pretty sad if true. I wonder when the video will get released...

I also heard he wouldn't stop talking about the Canaanite genocide, which doesn't have much to do with a debate on 'Has science buried god?'.
Poetaster
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8/9/2013 12:33:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:15:02 AM, Sargon wrote:
http://tinyurl.com...

Full video of the debate.

Here's a full transcript:

http://www.metrolyrics.com...
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
Sargon
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8/9/2013 12:39:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:33:37 AM, Poetaster wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:15:02 AM, Sargon wrote:
http://tinyurl.com...

Full video of the debate.

Here's a full transcript:

http://www.metrolyrics.com...

I really enjoyed Krauss' attack on the first premise of the KCA.
Poetaster
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8/9/2013 12:51:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:39:59 AM, Sargon wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:33:37 AM, Poetaster wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:15:02 AM, Sargon wrote:
http://tinyurl.com...

Full video of the debate.

Here's a full transcript:

http://www.metrolyrics.com...

I really enjoyed Krauss' attack on the first premise of the KCA.

Never gonna come to be,
Without causality.
That's just a fallacy
Of induction.
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
Sargon
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8/9/2013 12:52:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:51:27 AM, Poetaster wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:39:59 AM, Sargon wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:33:37 AM, Poetaster wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:15:02 AM, Sargon wrote:
http://tinyurl.com...

Full video of the debate.

Here's a full transcript:

http://www.metrolyrics.com...

I really enjoyed Krauss' attack on the first premise of the KCA.

Never gonna come to be,
Without causality.
That's just a fallacy
Of induction.

We're no strangers to quantum mechanics
You know the literature, and so do I
A full debate on Bohm is what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other guy
SovereignDream
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8/9/2013 2:29:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 2:52:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/8/2013 1:12:36 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 8/8/2013 12:14:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"This time, unlike other debates I've watched, I felt like the atheist, Prof. Krauss, got the better of the Christian." [http://st-eutychus.com...]

"Krauss is admittedly quite entertaining and engaging, and no doubt enjoys the live audience; his performance was probably stronger..." [http://eternitainment.com...]

All the reviews (even from Christians) that I have read say Krauss won the debate (even though I think he lost their last exchange). Who else is pumped for this to be released?

Lol what did Krauss do? Equivocate on "nothing" and espouse scientism, albeit more loudly than before?

I didn't watch the debate, so I wouldn't know. I'm just the messenger; and all of the reviews I read said Krauss won. I would be shocked too, as I believe Craig is a much better debater.

Ya, sorry. I can't help my knee-jerk reactions when it comes to Krauss. I mean...anyone else see Krauss as a source of humor instead of knowledge as I?
GeoLaureate8
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8/9/2013 2:39:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Pitiful. Is that what Atheists have to resort to just to even try to get close to beating Craig?
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1Devilsadvocate
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8/9/2013 2:46:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 12:14:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"This time, unlike other debates I've watched, I felt like the atheist, Prof. Krauss, got the better of the Christian." [http://st-eutychus.com...]

"Krauss is admittedly quite entertaining and engaging, and no doubt enjoys the live audience; his performance was probably stronger..." [http://eternitainment.com...]

All the reviews (even from Christians) that I have read say Krauss won the debate (even though I think he lost their last exchange). Who else is pumped for this to be released?

Its pretty ironic that I just watched a previous WLC vs krauss debate tonight/this morning. (WLC clearly won.)

I according to both of those reviews, Krauss did not win in any sort of meaningful way, he just put on a better entertainment show, appealing to the unsophisticated & neo-atheist psycofans.

From review #1:
"Krauss barely touched on the debate topic, and when he did, it was to offer inane and debunked comparative cliches about Christianity in comparison with other ancient religions, or to over reach on science"s behalf " inconsistently attempting to suggest science is just a tool, but also suggesting that it is synonymous with rationality, rather than a tool for the rational. He was patronising, he treated the audience like children, he read his slides " word for word " he barely touched on his field of expertise. He also pretty constantly talked over the top of Lane Craig, relied on crass one liners like "forcing religion onto children is child abuse," and was generally cantankerous. Despite a 10 minute opening plea from the moderator for a civil conversation between humans who held different opinions, Krauss was on the attack from beginning to end."

Review #2:
You stopped & left out what in my opinion was a key part of the review.
"Krauss exhibited more presence, relishing what was almost open slather on Craig, not because Krauss" arguments were revolutionary or persuasive, but because he was simply more dominant, overbearing perhaps."

This is a typical Krauss behavior, quite frankly, he's an immature jerk & should be embarrassed of himself.
In the debate I was watching, Krauss mentioned a few times that he preferred dialog over debate, now I understand why.
I hope WLC finds a way to turn this around and put that jerk in his place.
This whole thing really pissed off, & ruined my whole night, not 100% sure why.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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8/9/2013 4:30:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/8/2013 1:45:18 PM, unitedandy wrote:
Also, why isn't Craig debating Graham Oppy instead, who is apparently a moderator for one of the debates? Oppy's one of the best atheist/agnostic philosophers of religion around.

He doesn't enjoy debates. He moreover states that one cannot construct a strong argument either way. That said, I'd enjoy seeing him debate, I just wonder whether it is his "thing".
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