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Satan

johnlubba
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8/10/2013 11:15:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What was Satan's position in heaven before the fall?, and how powerful is Satan supposed to be. What does the Bible tell us about the attributes Satan might have?

I am of the impression that Satan was a very powerful being with attributes close to God and almost above every other character in creation, My understanding is that Satan or Lucifer as he was known was a beautifully created being who used to lead all other angels into worship, and when he was cast down took with him all his attributes.

Does anybody else have any opinion of what Satan or Lucifer is supposed to be depicted as through the Bible, other than the common idea of being a sneaky little devil.?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/10/2013 12:14:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:15:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
What was Satan's position in heaven before the fall?, and how powerful is Satan supposed to be. What does the Bible tell us about the attributes Satan might have?

I am of the impression that Satan was a very powerful being with attributes close to God and almost above every other character in creation, My understanding is that Satan or Lucifer as he was known was a beautifully created being who used to lead all other angels into worship, and when he was cast down took with him all his attributes.


Does anybody else have any opinion of what Satan or Lucifer is supposed to be depicted as through the Bible, other than the common idea of being a sneaky little devil.?

The sneaky little devil made you write this post. Have a nice day in God's world delusion.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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8/10/2013 1:33:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 12:14:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/10/2013 11:15:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
What was Satan's position in heaven before the fall?, and how powerful is Satan supposed to be. What does the Bible tell us about the attributes Satan might have?

I am of the impression that Satan was a very powerful being with attributes close to God and almost above every other character in creation, My understanding is that Satan or Lucifer as he was known was a beautifully created being who used to lead all other angels into worship, and when he was cast down took with him all his attributes.


Does anybody else have any opinion of what Satan or Lucifer is supposed to be depicted as through the Bible, other than the common idea of being a sneaky little devil.?

The sneaky little devil made you write this post. Have a nice day in God's world delusion.

Thanks, Same to you.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2013 2:46:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:15:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:

Does anybody else have any opinion of what Satan or Lucifer is supposed to be depicted as through the Bible, other than the common idea of being a sneaky little devil.?

This isn't by any means authoritative, but it's a good starting point:

"Before the rise of Christianity, the pseudepigrapha of Enochic Judaism, the form of Judaism witnessed to in 1 Enoch and 2 Enoch, which enjoyed much popularity during the Second Temple period,[15] gave Satan an expanded role, interpreting Isaiah 14:12-15, with its reference to the morning star, as applicable to him, and presenting him as a fallen angel cast out of heaven.[16] Christian tradition, influenced by this presentation,[16] came to use the Latin word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name ("Lucifer") for Satan as Satan was before his fall. As a result, "Lucifer has become a by-word for Satan in the Church and in popular literature",[2] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost."

http://en.wikipedia.org...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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8/10/2013 4:52:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not sure if you are asking only about what the bible says, but In Islamic scriptures, Satan is not a name but an adjective, that is true for any deceiver, rebellious whether it be from Mankind or devils, the proper name of the Satan, is Iblis, his power is nothing equal or near to God power, he as a devil has a great power that mankind don't have, his powers were given to him by our God, his creator. Iblis used to be a good worshipper of God, then because God made Adam he got very Jealous and his rebellion started from then. He can deceive wicked and doubting people, but not to the point to force them and take away their free will, Just by decorating evil in their minds and making good look bad or unreachable, they basically already opened the door for him to influence their judgement, he easily can deceive them about what good and evil are. but for richest men and women , he has no power over them.

http://www.al-islam.org...
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/11/2013 11:33:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 10:54:00 PM, Splenic_Warrior wrote:
I was always under the impression that he was just another run-of-the-mill angel.

I believe Demons are regular Angela who were cast out of Heaven like Lucifer. This would imply that Lucifer is a special case and not just any Demon. It's possible he could have been one of the Archangels mentioned in Revelation.

Perhaps there used to be 8, and now there are 7.
Nolite Timere
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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8/12/2013 6:27:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:33:42 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:54:00 PM, Splenic_Warrior wrote:
I was always under the impression that he was just another run-of-the-mill angel.

I believe Demons are regular Angela who were cast out of Heaven like Lucifer. This would imply that Lucifer is a special case and not just any Demon. It's possible he could have been one of the Archangels mentioned in Revelation.

Perhaps there used to be 8, and now there are 7.

No, Demons aren't angels, they are different creatures, made differently.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/12/2013 12:36:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/12/2013 6:27:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:33:42 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:54:00 PM, Splenic_Warrior wrote:
I was always under the impression that he was just another run-of-the-mill angel.

I believe Demons are regular Angela who were cast out of Heaven like Lucifer. This would imply that Lucifer is a special case and not just any Demon. It's possible he could have been one of the Archangels mentioned in Revelation.

Perhaps there used to be 8, and now there are 7.

No, Demons aren't angels, they are different creatures, made differently.

I'm talking Christianity. If I am not mistaken Demons are fallen Angels.
Nolite Timere
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/12/2013 12:37:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/12/2013 12:36:05 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/12/2013 6:27:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:33:42 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:54:00 PM, Splenic_Warrior wrote:
I was always under the impression that he was just another run-of-the-mill angel.

I believe Demons are regular Angela who were cast out of Heaven like Lucifer. This would imply that Lucifer is a special case and not just any Demon. It's possible he could have been one of the Archangels mentioned in Revelation.

Perhaps there used to be 8, and now there are 7.

No, Demons aren't angels, they are different creatures, made differently.

I'm talking Christianity. If I am not mistaken Demons are fallen Angels.

Here, I just looked it up.

"In Christian belief, angels were created good but were endowed with free will just as humans were. Some of them rebelled against God, were banished from heaven, and became demons."
Nolite Timere
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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8/12/2013 1:04:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/12/2013 12:37:15 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/12/2013 12:36:05 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/12/2013 6:27:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:33:42 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:54:00 PM, Splenic_Warrior wrote:
I was always under the impression that he was just another run-of-the-mill angel.

I believe Demons are regular Angela who were cast out of Heaven like Lucifer. This would imply that Lucifer is a special case and not just any Demon. It's possible he could have been one of the Archangels mentioned in Revelation.

Perhaps there used to be 8, and now there are 7.

No, Demons aren't angels, they are different creatures, made differently.

I'm talking Christianity. If I am not mistaken Demons are fallen Angels.

Here, I just looked it up.

"In Christian belief, angels were created good but were endowed with free will just as humans were. Some of them rebelled against God, were banished from heaven, and became demons."

Apparently Lucifer was made above the other angels and held a superior position to others before the fall, Also I remember reading that Lucifer's body was made up of instruments and when he spoke the most beautiful music came out from him, and he was responsible for leading all the other angels into worship....When Lucifer was cast down he took with him all his attributes as well as a third of Gods angels which numbered infinity and which he managed to deceive.

http://www.turnbacktogod.com...
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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8/12/2013 1:46:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job Chapter 38; Verse 7

Ezekiel Chapter 28

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.................

Isaiah 14

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Suqua
Posts: 433
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8/16/2013 11:31:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 12:14:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/10/2013 11:15:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
What was Satan's position in heaven before the fall?, and how powerful is Satan supposed to be. What does the Bible tell us about the attributes Satan might have?

I am of the impression that Satan was a very powerful being with attributes close to God and almost above every other character in creation, My understanding is that Satan or Lucifer as he was known was a beautifully created being who used to lead all other angels into worship, and when he was cast down took with him all his attributes.


Does anybody else have any opinion of what Satan or Lucifer is supposed to be depicted as through the Bible, other than the common idea of being a sneaky little devil.?

The sneaky little devil made you write this post. Have a nice day in God's world delusion.

Bornofdelusion! Hello.
Irresistable
Posts: 224
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8/17/2013 7:46:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The way I see it, Satan is a cursed angel who simply was picked on by the most powerful being and didn't give in to God's bullsh*t and was forced to pay the price.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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8/17/2013 10:16:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/12/2013 12:37:15 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/12/2013 12:36:05 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/12/2013 6:27:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:33:42 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:54:00 PM, Splenic_Warrior wrote:
I was always under the impression that he was just another run-of-the-mill angel.

I believe Demons are regular Angela who were cast out of Heaven like Lucifer. This would imply that Lucifer is a special case and not just any Demon. It's possible he could have been one of the Archangels mentioned in Revelation.

Perhaps there used to be 8, and now there are 7.

No, Demons aren't angels, they are different creatures, made differently.

I'm talking Christianity. If I am not mistaken Demons are fallen Angels.

Here, I just looked it up.

"In Christian belief, angels were created good but were endowed with free will just as humans were. Some of them rebelled against God, were banished from heaven, and became demons."

Ok.

According to Islam, Angels and demons aren't made of the same thing in the first place , but a group with angels and demons would be called angels! it says the Jinn (demons) are made of fire, and Malai-ka (angels) are made of light, speaking of their bodies of course.

About the fallen angels, there is a story about 2 angels named Harut and Marut, who said what means that if they were men they would do better deeds. so God gave them human bodies and they Fell in Babylon where they basically committed many sins.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/17/2013 11:31:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement.
Nolite Timere
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/17/2013 11:33:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Satan is like the boogie man in the woods. All you have to do is go into the woods and find peace and serenity.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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8/17/2013 11:40:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 11:31:23 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement.

Thank you for your unnecessary sarcasm. It is on-topic, because if Satan doesn't exist, then the conversation becomes trivial. Also, Satan is an unfalsifiable hypothesis, like the hypothesis that invisible angels assist gravity in keeping our butts on the seat. We assume these things are false by default unless good arguments, or evidence arise for them. There is as much evidence for Satan as there is for the invisible boulder that is about to land on your house. Nothing but man's word.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/17/2013 11:42:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 11:40:41 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:31:23 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement.

Thank you for your unnecessary sarcasm. It is on-topic, because if Satan doesn't exist, then the conversation becomes trivial. Also, Satan is an unfalsifiable hypothesis, like the hypothesis that invisible angels assist gravity in keeping our butts on the seat. We assume these things are false by default unless good arguments, or evidence arise for them. There is as much evidence for Satan as there is for the invisible boulder that is about to land on your house. Nothing but man's word.

The topic is on Satan himself, not on his existence.
Although there is no evidence of the existence of Satan, there are logically valid points to his existence. In addition, Christianity which is a logically sound religion, also supports a logically sound existence of Satan.
Nolite Timere
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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8/17/2013 11:49:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 11:42:59 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:40:41 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:31:23 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement.

Thank you for your unnecessary sarcasm. It is on-topic, because if Satan doesn't exist, then the conversation becomes trivial. Also, Satan is an unfalsifiable hypothesis, like the hypothesis that invisible angels assist gravity in keeping our butts on the seat. We assume these things are false by default unless good arguments, or evidence arise for them. There is as much evidence for Satan as there is for the invisible boulder that is about to land on your house. Nothing but man's word.

The topic is on Satan himself, not on his existence.
Although there is no evidence of the existence of Satan, there are logically valid points to his existence.

No there is not. Just words in The Bible, and people suffering from mental illness.

In addition, Christianity which is a logically sound religion, also supports a logically sound existence of Satan.

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement ;)
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/17/2013 11:52:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 11:40:41 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:31:23 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement.

Thank you for your unnecessary sarcasm. It is on-topic, because if Satan doesn't exist, then the conversation becomes trivial. Also, Satan is an unfalsifiable hypothesis, like the hypothesis that invisible angels assist gravity in keeping our butts on the seat. We assume these things are false by default unless good arguments, or evidence arise for them. There is as much evidence for Satan as there is for the invisible boulder that is about to land on your house. Nothing but man's word.

Satan is like a magic trick created by the master magician.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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8/17/2013 11:59:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 11:49:42 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:42:59 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:40:41 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:31:23 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement.

Thank you for your unnecessary sarcasm. It is on-topic, because if Satan doesn't exist, then the conversation becomes trivial. Also, Satan is an unfalsifiable hypothesis, like the hypothesis that invisible angels assist gravity in keeping our butts on the seat. We assume these things are false by default unless good arguments, or evidence arise for them. There is as much evidence for Satan as there is for the invisible boulder that is about to land on your house. Nothing but man's word.

The topic is on Satan himself, not on his existence.
Although there is no evidence of the existence of Satan, there are logically valid points to his existence.

No there is not. Just words in The Bible, and people suffering from mental illness.

Woah, do you really believe that? I assumed that because you're one of the top atheists here you would at least understand Christianity. After all, most atheists are about skepticism, but if you're about proof in atheism you must first understand one of the main things you are arguing against.

In addition, Christianity which is a logically sound religion, also supports a logically sound existence of Satan.

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement ;)

Lol. I mean, to be fair I can't list every single logically sound reason for Christianity. That's what books by major theologians and philosophers are for.
Nolite Timere
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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8/17/2013 1:31:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 11:59:31 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:49:42 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:42:59 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:40:41 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/17/2013 11:31:23 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement.

Thank you for your unnecessary sarcasm. It is on-topic, because if Satan doesn't exist, then the conversation becomes trivial. Also, Satan is an unfalsifiable hypothesis, like the hypothesis that invisible angels assist gravity in keeping our butts on the seat. We assume these things are false by default unless good arguments, or evidence arise for them. There is as much evidence for Satan as there is for the invisible boulder that is about to land on your house. Nothing but man's word.

The topic is on Satan himself, not on his existence.
Although there is no evidence of the existence of Satan, there are logically valid points to his existence.

No there is not. Just words in The Bible, and people suffering from mental illness.

Woah, do you really believe that? I assumed that because you're one of the top atheists here you would at least understand Christianity. After all, most atheists are about skepticism, but if you're about proof in atheism you must first understand one of the main things you are arguing against.

I understand Christianity enough to know it is unfounded. The idea of Satan has nothing to support it.


In addition, Christianity which is a logically sound religion, also supports a logically sound existence of Satan.

Thank you for that logically supported, and on-topic statement ;)

Lol. I mean, to be fair I can't list every single logically sound reason for Christianity. That's what books by major theologians and philosophers are for.

I can't list ever rebuttal to your arguments either. Oh well...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/17/2013 4:53:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Satan, Lucifer, serpent, devil, wicked flesh, false prophet, antichrist, etc. are all the same thing to our Creator who created this world deception to keep His people confused during this first age.

It's only our flesh that perishes, not our invisible created existence in the mind of God.
silverxseed
Posts: 64
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8/17/2013 9:25:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In my opinion, Lucifer was likely a very powerful and high ranking angel in his time in heaven who rebelled against "god" in order to usurp his throne(and why not be ambitious?). It would also seem that, according to the atrocities committed by god, it would seem that his rebellion may have been justified.

He is, quite possibly, my favorite mythological character sharing his position with Lilith
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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8/18/2013 1:09:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 10:20:33 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
There is no Satan. There, I just made this conversation much easier...

Really? You just spoiled my whole weekend, I was hoping someone could provide some proof of the sneaky devil, instead of just telling me what he is depicted as according to the Bible...
question4u
Posts: 492
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9/2/2013 12:33:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:15:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
What was Satan's position in heaven before the fall?, and how powerful is Satan supposed to be. What does the Bible tell us about the attributes Satan might have?

I am of the impression that Satan was a very powerful being with attributes close to God and almost above every other character in creation, My understanding is that Satan or Lucifer as he was known was a beautifully created being who used to lead all other angels into worship, and when he was cast down took with him all his attributes.


Does anybody else have any opinion of what Satan or Lucifer is supposed to be depicted as through the Bible, other than the common idea of being a sneaky little devil.?

without humans darkeness would not seem strong, influence and peer pressuren and fear are beasts
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/2/2013 12:54:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 9:25:18 PM, silverxseed wrote:
In my opinion, Lucifer was likely a very powerful and high ranking angel in his time in heaven who rebelled against "god" in order to usurp his throne(and why not be ambitious?). It would also seem that, according to the atrocities committed by god, it would seem that his rebellion may have been justified.

He is, quite possibly, my favorite mythological character sharing his position with Lilith

Only us saints have the knowledge of God to understand His created delusion to keep all His people deceived from the truth that there is no satan. Satan is only His delusion that will be removed at the end of this age.