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Infuriating facebook post

000ike
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8/13/2013 2:53:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's infuriating because it's one sided, makes an appeal to authority, set's up an incompetent strawman to hold up the scientist's end of the dialogue, and improperly characterizes Einstein's religious beliefs. Here it is:

"TAKE TIME TO READ. It's worth reading it. Trust me

Professor : You are a Christian, aren"t you, son ?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Professor : Is GOD good ?

Student : Sure.

Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?

Student : Yes.

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn"t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent.)

Professor: You can"t answer, can you ? Let"s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Is satan good ?

Student : No.

Professor: Where does satan come from ?

Student : From " GOD "

Professor: That"s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn"t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Professor: So who created evil ?

(Student did not answer.)

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don"t they?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, who created them ?

(Student had no answer.)

Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

Student : No , sir.

Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I"m afraid I haven"t.

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn"t exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Professor: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Professor: Yes.

Student : No, sir. There isn"t.

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don"t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can"t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn"t darkness?

Student : You"re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn"t it? In reality, darkness isn"t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn"t you?

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can"t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class was in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor"s brain?

(" e class broke out into laughter. )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor"s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Professor: I guess you"ll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir " Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.

P.S.

I believe you have enjoyed the conversation. And if so, you"ll probably want your friends / colleagues to enjoy the same, won"t you?

Forward this to increase their knowledge " or FAITH.

By the way, that student was EINSTEIN."
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/13/2013 3:09:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
here's an actual conversation of Einstein's in which he discussed what kind of place religion should have in people's lives/thinking.

http://www.lettersofnote.com...

Princeton, 3. 1. 1954

Dear Mr Gutkind,

Inspired by Brouwer's repeated suggestion, I read a great deal in your book, and thank you very much for lending it to me. What struck me was this: with regard to the factual attitude to life and to the human community we have a great deal in common. Your personal ideal with its striving for freedom from ego-oriented desires, for making life beautiful and noble, with an emphasis on the purely human element. This unites us as having an "unAmerican attitude."

Still, without Brouwer's suggestion I would never have gotten myself to engage intensively with your book because it is written in a language inaccessible to me. The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can change this for me. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong, and whose thinking I have a deep affinity for, have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything "chosen" about them.

In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew the privilege of monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision, probably as the first one. And the animistic interpretations of the religions of nature are in principle not annulled by monopolization. With such walls we can only attain a certain self-deception, but our moral efforts are not furthered by them. On the contrary.

Now that I have quite openly stated our differences in intellectual convictions it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in essential things, i.e; in our evaluations of human behavior. What separates us are only intellectual "props" and "rationalization" in Freud's language. Therefore I think that we would understand each other quite well if we talked about concrete things.

With friendly thanks and best wishes,

Yours,

A. Einstein
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/13/2013 3:14:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:09:46 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
here's an actual conversation of Einstein's in which he discussed what kind of place religion should have in people's lives/thinking.

http://www.lettersofnote.com...

Princeton, 3. 1. 1954

Dear Mr Gutkind,

Inspired by Brouwer's repeated suggestion, I read a great deal in your book, and thank you very much for lending it to me. What struck me was this: with regard to the factual attitude to life and to the human community we have a great deal in common. Your personal ideal with its striving for freedom from ego-oriented desires, for making life beautiful and noble, with an emphasis on the purely human element. This unites us as having an "unAmerican attitude."

Still, without Brouwer's suggestion I would never have gotten myself to engage intensively with your book because it is written in a language inaccessible to me. The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can change this for me. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong, and whose thinking I have a deep affinity for, have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything "chosen" about them.

In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew the privilege of monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision, probably as the first one. And the animistic interpretations of the religions of nature are in principle not annulled by monopolization. With such walls we can only attain a certain self-deception, but our moral efforts are not furthered by them. On the contrary.

Now that I have quite openly stated our differences in intellectual convictions it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in essential things, i.e; in our evaluations of human behavior. What separates us are only intellectual "props" and "rationalization" in Freud's language. Therefore I think that we would understand each other quite well if we talked about concrete things.

With friendly thanks and best wishes,

Yours,

A. Einstein

Einstein didn't realize at his death that his theories would lead to worldly wisdom that God needed to help me understand that there is no such thing as time or matter.

The equations that God had Einstein work out led to more delusion but out of that delusion came a way for God to teach me how we were created.
mattrodstrom
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8/13/2013 3:17:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:14:07 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Einstein didn't realize at his death that his theories would lead to worldly wisdom that God needed to help me understand that there is no such thing as time or matter.

The equations that God had Einstein work out led to more delusion but out of that delusion came a way for God to teach me how we were created.

E=MC^2! :.We're all Energy!
and therefore we're all Information!
Therefore there had to be a creator who made it b/c that's what Information means!!!

even though energy is not "information"
but ok.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/13/2013 3:46:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:17:35 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:14:07 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Einstein didn't realize at his death that his theories would lead to worldly wisdom that God needed to help me understand that there is no such thing as time or matter.

The equations that God had Einstein work out led to more delusion but out of that delusion came a way for God to teach me how we were created.

E=MC^2! :.We're all Energy!
and therefore we're all Information!
Therefore there had to be a creator who made it b/c that's what Information means!!!

even though energy is not "information"
but ok.

Scientists are on the verge of explaining energy as being information but since you unbelievers need to hear these things from other sinners, then you won't be able to hear your Creator teaching you about His creation.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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8/13/2013 3:53:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Science attempts to understand why God does this or why God does that, essentially thinking they can process information on same level he does.

That's the fallacy

It's virtually impossible to know why God does certain things and it takes faith to know that whatever he does is (was) the best decision for us.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/13/2013 3:59:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:46:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
Scientists are on the verge of explaining energy as being information but since you unbelievers need to hear these things from other sinners, then you won't be able to hear your Creator teaching you about His creation.

The world is on the verge of putting childish, often erratic and dangerous , God-stories behind them, but for whatever reason you Misanthropic, Nihilist-leaning, Godmongers aren't able to do the same.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/13/2013 4:03:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:53:19 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Science attempts to understand why God does this or why God does that

Science doesn't operate on the premise that God exists... (B/c that premise is wholly without reason for positing)

So... no, Science doesn't attempt to understand why god does this or that. Science attempts to understand what lies behind given phenomena.. and Doesn't premise that God is behind it in the first place.. Much less does it try to psychoanalyze his decisions.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/13/2013 4:03:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:53:19 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Science attempts to understand why God does this or why God does that, essentially thinking they can process information on same level he does.

That's the fallacy

It's virtually impossible to know why God does certain things and it takes faith to know that whatever he does is (was) the best decision for us.

That's astonishingly stupid.

If you're willing to do anything and believe anything based on faith, then you will be easily manipulated and deceived by anyone ... given that you've established no vetting process for yourself before you adopt beliefs.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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8/13/2013 4:57:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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8/13/2013 5:09:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 4:03:28 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:53:19 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Science attempts to understand why God does this or why God does that, essentially thinking they can process information on same level he does.

That's the fallacy

It's virtually impossible to know why God does certain things and it takes faith to know that whatever he does is (was) the best decision for us.

That's astonishingly stupid.

If you're willing to do anything and believe anything based on faith, then you will be easily manipulated and deceived by anyone ... given that you've established no vetting process for yourself before you adopt beliefs.

Which is exactly why nobody on this good green earth can agree on who the last prophet of God was, let alone what morals one should live by to gain infinite bliss versus damnation.