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Imagine no religion.

Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
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8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?
Turn around, go back.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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8/17/2013 9:41:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

I think it isn't safe to make assumptions on how things would have been without religion, maybe things would have been worse, and maybe the human kind wouldn't have evolved the way it did.

But if we want an impartial answer, we have to check if there is any nation that never practice any religion, and only based its laws on human ideologies that weren't dictated by religions.

Honestly I think that people would be about the same, with or without religion, religion may have had a great role in shaping some of our history, but a lot of what happened is also free and independent of religion, so it really isn't "just" nor impartial to put anything you consider "evil" on the account of religions!
drafterman
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8/17/2013 9:46:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 9:41:05 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

I think it isn't safe to make assumptions on how things would have been without religion, maybe things would have been worse, and maybe the human kind wouldn't have evolved the way it did.

And that's the gist of religious apologist, isn't it? Don't think contrary to what we say! It isn't "safe!" Implicit threats aren't convincing.


But if we want an impartial answer, we have to check if there is any nation that never practice any religion, and only based its laws on human ideologies that weren't dictated by religions.

Honestly I think that people would be about the same, with or without religion, religion may have had a great role in shaping some of our history, but a lot of what happened is also free and independent of religion, so it really isn't "just" nor impartial to put anything you consider "evil" on the account of religions!
Df0512
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8/17/2013 9:54:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

We'd be living like the Jetsons
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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8/17/2013 10:02:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

It would look white. The air would be foggy and you could not see the sky, no matter what was above us. It would look grainy with low quality and filled with cliches. Populated with old people trying to look middle aged. It would also sound like a Stalinist propaganda stanza. Everyone is living for today (apparently forgetting about tomorrow). People would be able to walk right through doors without opening them.

There would be nothing to live or die for. Filled with dreamers who never did anything but dream and lay in bed hoping things would change instead of spending a dime on other people. And then, ironically, a nutcase would kill their permanently stoned hippy leader.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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8/17/2013 10:29:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

It would self-evidently much better. People would accept reality for what it is, instead of making up an afterlife due to fear of death. People would make their own justice, instead of leaving it up to the invisible wizard who doesn't even exist. People would make the best out of the one life they have known that is all they have, instead of half-a*sing their life knowing that they have an infinite life after they die. There would much less violence, as religious conflicts wouldn't exist.

I think it is rather obvious that a world without religion trumps a world with it. The fact it even needs to be brought up is embarrassing.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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8/17/2013 10:42:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 10:02:34 AM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

It would look white. The air would be foggy and you could not see the sky, no matter what was above us. It would look grainy with low quality and filled with cliches. Populated with old people trying to look middle aged. It would also sound like a Stalinist propaganda stanza. Everyone is living for today (apparently forgetting about tomorrow). People would be able to walk right through doors without opening them.

There would be nothing to live or die for. Filled with dreamers who never did anything but dream and lay in bed hoping things would change instead of spending a dime on other people. And then, ironically, a nutcase would kill their permanently stoned hippy leader.


Stand up please Indoctrination you have won the gold trophy. If we can't get a paradise when we die then we should just shoot ourselves. Of course if we get paradise when we die we must certainly shoot ourselves.
Religion, oh well!
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/17/2013 11:01:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

You'll have to wait until the next age when there is no religion, government, cities, science, math, philosophy, hate, hunger, disease, accidents, storms, decay or death.
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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8/17/2013 12:17:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 10:42:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/17/2013 10:02:34 AM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

It would look white. The air would be foggy and you could not see the sky, no matter what was above us. It would look grainy with low quality and filled with cliches. Populated with old people trying to look middle aged. It would also sound like a Stalinist propaganda stanza. Everyone is living for today (apparently forgetting about tomorrow). People would be able to walk right through doors without opening them.

There would be nothing to live or die for. Filled with dreamers who never did anything but dream and lay in bed hoping things would change instead of spending a dime on other people. And then, ironically, a nutcase would kill their permanently stoned hippy leader.


Stand up please Indoctrination you have won the gold trophy. If we can't get a paradise when we die then we should just shoot ourselves. Of course if we get paradise when we die we must certainly shoot ourselves.
Religion, oh well!

It's not about heaven. It's about God. To live is Christ. To die is gain. The idea of my Religion is complete unselfishness and devotion to God. Meaning, that heaven is a secondary concept.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/17/2013 12:26:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

I think that we need some sort of positive cultural influence, which I'm sure we can provide, so make sure we have a happy, low-crime and compassionate society. In the past this may have been harder to implement, and religion may have brought positive effects, but I believe that in our modern society, we can transcend religion.

To your actual question, the world's society may not have as advanced as well as ours has. I think and feel that while a culture is budding, religion may be a good influence. Of course I also believe that some kinds of religion may be better than others, although I don't know how I'd approach such a conclusion. There are also many other aspects to cultural development which this addresses, so if it's the only aspect you focus on it would be an extremely reductionist theory.
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sdavio
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8/17/2013 12:35:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Probably socialist / communist lol; we'll always need to move from one irrational sense of hope to another, as long as the lack of critical thinking is still there. The only real way to fix things is not to get rid of religion but the fundamental ways of thinking that lead to it. This is why principles and morality are important; rather than just seeing things as a label and trying to get people to reject the label, we should fix the principles of thought they're working with.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/17/2013 4:58:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 12:35:15 PM, sdavio wrote:
Probably socialist / communist lol; we'll always need to move from one irrational sense of hope to another, as long as the lack of critical thinking is still there. The only real way to fix things is not to get rid of religion but the fundamental ways of thinking that lead to it. This is why principles and morality are important; rather than just seeing things as a label and trying to get people to reject the label, we should fix the principles of thought they're working with.

Don't worry. God planned on destroying this world to end His deception in the minds of HIs people.
Fruitytree
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8/18/2013 6:17:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 12:26:00 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

I think that we need some sort of positive cultural influence, which I'm sure we can provide, so make sure we have a happy, low-crime and compassionate society. In the past this may have been harder to implement, and religion may have brought positive effects, but I believe that in our modern society, we can transcend religion.

Good, but our modern society is also the fruit of our religious backgrounds..

To your actual question, the world's society may not have as advanced as well as ours has. I think and feel that while a culture is budding, religion may be a good influence. Of course I also believe that some kinds of religion may be better than others, although I don't know how I'd approach such a conclusion. There are also many other aspects to cultural development which this addresses, so if it's the only aspect you focus on it would be an extremely reductionist theory.
Rational_Thinker9119
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8/18/2013 8:29:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/18/2013 6:17:16 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/17/2013 12:26:00 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

I think that we need some sort of positive cultural influence, which I'm sure we can provide, so make sure we have a happy, low-crime and compassionate society. In the past this may have been harder to implement, and religion may have brought positive effects, but I believe that in our modern society, we can transcend religion.

Good, but our modern society is also the fruit of our religious backgrounds..

To your actual question, the world's society may not have as advanced as well as ours has. I think and feel that while a culture is budding, religion may be a good influence. Of course I also believe that some kinds of religion may be better than others, although I don't know how I'd approach such a conclusion. There are also many other aspects to cultural development which this addresses, so if it's the only aspect you focus on it would be an extremely reductionist theory.

Which embodies one of the reasons why society is so messed up lol
Illegalcombatant
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8/18/2013 8:55:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

Generally you are right, it would be more accepting cause many things they are non accepted are based purely on a religious teaching that God hates X.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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8/18/2013 9:18:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does no-one remember the claim made by theists? That without religion they would have nothing to stop them being mass murdering rapists and paedophiles. Thank god for religion I say, if we allowed these psychopaths loose sans religion....................well..........
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
SovereignDream
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8/18/2013 9:27:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

Perhaps no establishment of the scientific enterprise, or at least not how it is in the actual world? Perhaps no establishment of public charity institutions like hospitals, schools, etc., or at least not how it exists in the actual world. Perhaps no establishment of education establishments, or at least not how they exist in the actual world.
Illegalcombatant
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8/18/2013 9:30:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/18/2013 9:18:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
Does no-one remember the claim made by theists? That without religion they would have nothing to stop them being mass murdering rapists and paedophiles. Thank god for religion I say, if we allowed these psychopaths loose sans religion....................well..........

LOL most of them are just lying.

And get this, give a psychopath the belief that there is a God and this God even allows no COMMANDS his faithful to kill, torture, oppress, have power over others, etc.

So not only can they do all those things are more, they can even do it with the self satisfaction, zeal and justification that they have divine approval.

You never hear about the other side of the argument do ya ? If you believe that God wants something, what won't you do to full fill this goal ? Who will you not kill ? who will you not enslave ? what kind of torture is off limits ? what deception will you not do ? What lie by omission will you not omit ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/18/2013 10:35:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/18/2013 6:17:16 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 8/17/2013 12:26:00 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

I think that we need some sort of positive cultural influence, which I'm sure we can provide, so make sure we have a happy, low-crime and compassionate society. In the past this may have been harder to implement, and religion may have brought positive effects, but I believe that in our modern society, we can transcend religion.

Good, but our modern society is also the fruit of our religious backgrounds..

Duh, I said that.


To your actual question, the world's society may not have as advanced as well as ours has. I think and feel that while a culture is budding, religion may be a good influence. Of course I also believe that some kinds of religion may be better than others, although I don't know how I'd approach such a conclusion. There are also many other aspects to cultural development which this addresses, so if it's the only aspect you focus on it would be an extremely reductionist theory.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

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bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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8/18/2013 10:47:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/18/2013 9:30:10 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 8/18/2013 9:18:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
Does no-one remember the claim made by theists? That without religion they would have nothing to stop them being mass murdering rapists and paedophiles. Thank god for religion I say, if we allowed these psychopaths loose sans religion....................well..........

LOL most of them are just lying.


Yeah I know but it's fun to throw their absurd claims back at 'em. just sayin'
btw the rest of your post was on the money as well.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Drayson
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8/19/2013 5:40:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As an atheist, I agree that it would likely be a far more accepting, safer, and nicer place. Less wars, less hatred, less bigotry (though some would still be around, because human nature)

However, I would have to admit that we'd probably be lacking in some positive things. Much of our Art and Culture is rooted in religious mythology and teachings. Think how many amazing paintings, buildings, and sculptures wouldn't exist if their wasn't faith in the divine inspiring those artists?
"I'm not saying I don't trust you...and I'm not saying I do. But I don't"

-Topper Harley
bornofgod
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8/19/2013 5:53:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:40:46 PM, Drayson wrote:
As an atheist, I agree that it would likely be a far more accepting, safer, and nicer place. Less wars, less hatred, less bigotry (though some would still be around, because human nature)

However, I would have to admit that we'd probably be lacking in some positive things. Much of our Art and Culture is rooted in religious mythology and teachings. Think how many amazing paintings, buildings, and sculptures wouldn't exist if their wasn't faith in the divine inspiring those artists?

The world as we know it came from God's deceptive plan called the "beast". This plan started out by having some of His people look at the stars and connect them to get building shapes like squares, rectangles, triangles and intersections. In fact, the Christian crucifix came from star constellations formed as an intersection and used for streets and beams in building codes.

God had to start teaching His people with simple building shapes to get us to build the modern day technology to help us understand our invisible created existence as energy wavelengths ( or wavebits as I like to say ), which is the lowest form of bits of information. Information needs a contrast in order to be understood. If only 0's consisted in binary computer code, it would be a flatline across the computer screen.

A wavelength of energy has a high pitch and low pitch to give it a bit of information.
zbDbte
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8/20/2013 1:16:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

There wouldn't be much difference. Spend some time with religious people and don't be judgmental, and then go spend some time with non-religious people without being judgmental too. You'll find that there are good and bad people within both groups.

Religious groups have their own norms and non-religious groups have their own norms. If you deviate from either norms, regardless of which group, they won't be so accepting towards you.

And, you don't really need to blow up the religious group into a global phenomena to feel it's good or bad effects. The same goes for non-religious group.
madilincrock
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9/12/2013 4:50:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Paradise, everybody would have achieve godhood and be way more advance

exposinfchristianity.com
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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/12/2013 4:52:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

You'll have to wait until the next age where there won't be any religion, cities, government or Christians.

God's people will never be deceived again.
MadCornishBiker
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10/24/2013 4:17:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

Someone has been listening to too many John Lennon songs.

If there was no God, there would be no world so it is a completely moot question.

One doesn't need to wonder what the world would be like with only one God because the bible lays out very clearly how it was when only one God held sway, and how it will be when the same situation pertains again.
bornofgod
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10/24/2013 4:23:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/17/2013 8:50:26 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
Seriously now, I wonder what the world would be like if their was no religion at all, I am not talking about a scenario where religion was banned I am talking about a world that has never heard of the concept of faith or religion. I think it would be a much more accepting world to say the least. Any thoughts on this?

We won't understand what religion or faith means in the next age when ALL God's creation will know Him. Most of God's people didn't know Him in this age. Only us prophets, saints and the believers of our testimonies knew Him, which isn't very many people out of the billions that walked on this planet.
Dragonfang
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10/25/2013 1:48:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Those who also turned on the frequency of "Imagine no religion" includes: Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Kim Il-sung.

Did you read about or see pictures about some of their work? Pretty brutal. Now imagine a world without them.

I want any atheist intellectual to present a sound basis for the existence of human rights. Is there any justification other than being terrified of not making the cut? Lets say you are among the majority who made it, why should you apply human rights?
Why shouldn't we sterilize people born with disabilities and encourage those who have them to suicide for the good of society?

1- Atheist can only rationally perceive morality as personal and relative to humans.
2- If all morality is personal and relative to humans, then objectively, there is no wrong action.
3- If there is no objectively wrong action, then banning atheism is not objectively wrong.

So really, what is there to complain about when the majority are religious?
MadCornishBiker
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10/25/2013 2:38:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 1:48:52 PM, Dragonfang wrote:

I agree entirely with the concept you put forward here, and I hope you don't mind me adding a few bits to it.

Those who also turned on the frequency of "Imagine no religion" includes: Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Kim Il-sung.

Did you read about or see pictures about some of their work? Pretty brutal. Now imagine a world without them.

Oh I can imagine a world without such as those cruel dictators, and the bible describes it well.


I want any atheist intellectual to present a sound basis for the existence of human rights. Is there any justification other than being terrified of not making the cut? Lets say you are among the majority who made it, why should you apply human rights?
Why shouldn't we sterilize people born with disabilities and encourage those who have them to suicide for the good of society?

Ah the famous theory of eugenics, now discredited rarely discussed because of eh embarrassment that is felt by many of those who supported it and their families.

Its story should be well known to everyone, in the hope that that its horrors are never repeated.

The theory of eugenics postulated a crisis of the gene pool leading to the deterioration of the human race.

The best human beings were not breeding as rapidly as the inferior ones"the foreigners, immigrants, Jews, degenerates, the unfit, and the "feeble minded." Francis Galton, a respected British scientist, first speculated about this area, but his ideas were taken far beyond anything he intended. They were adopted by science-minded Americans, as well as those who had no interest in science but who were worried about the immigration of inferior races early in the twentieth century who represented and who were polluting the best of the human race.

Its supporters included Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Winston Churchill. It was approved by Supreme Court justices Oliver Wendell Holmes and Louis Brandeis, who ruled in its favor. The famous names who supported it included Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone; activist Margaret Sanger; botanist Luther Burbank; Leland Stanford, founder of Stanford University; the novelist H. G. Wells; the playwright George Bernard Shaw; and hundreds of others. Nobel Prize winners gave support. Research was backed by the Carnegie and Rockefeller Foundations. The Cold Springs Harbor Institute was built to carry out this research, but important work was also done at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and Johns Hopkins. Legislation to address the crisis was passed in states from New York to California



1- Atheist can only rationally perceive morality as personal and relative to humans.

If there is no God there is no source of a united morality

2- If all morality is personal and relative to humans, then objectively, there is no wrong action.

Or to put it another way no-one can be criticised for anything they claim is right, including paedophilia, rape, torture etc.

3- If there is no objectively wrong action, then banning atheism is not objectively wrong.

So really, what is there to complain about when the majority are religious?

Interestingly developed points