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Christian Rock Music

justin.graves
Posts: 220
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8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/23/2013 6:57:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

I never really saw what the big deal was with Christians and other forms of Christian music IDK, I guess it depends on the message, but for some it depends on the sound? It seems to me that we all have our own preference as well as differences in the way we express ourselves. I have been playing guitar since I was 14 and singing, recording and writing music up until now, and all the songs and lyrics I write have heavy spiritual element. But the way I play sounds like rock. When I write a song or play a song as a Christian I am "expressing" thanks and admiration regardless of the style presented. But then again I never really fit in with the churchy people lol.
I guess I'm just not offended by what others taste in music is. However if the music reflects or symbolizes something that is opposed to scripture such as anger or lust ect that is a different matter all together.
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God. There is nothing "glorifying" about taking the worldy, satanic image and applying "christian" lyrics to it. Paul once met a demon-posessed lady that said nothing but the Gospel truth:

And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation (Acts 16:16-17).

Even though the message (lyrics) were correct and true, the fact that a demon said them grieved Paul. Thus, if some nose-pierced, black haired teenage sings nothing but Jesus, it doesn't matter because he looks just like the Devil!
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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8/24/2013 12:29:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God.

Originally, music was probably created to seduce the opposite sex (or the same sex).
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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8/24/2013 1:09:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:29:18 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God.

Originally, music was probably created to seduce the opposite sex (or the same sex).

chapter and verse????? I'll give you mine: Job 38:4-7.
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
thg
Posts: 520
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8/24/2013 2:49:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Interesting thread. I played in a Cn funk-rock-fusion band (think Headhunters, Tower of Power) during the 70s (Imago Dei), during which CCM was just getting started. We came across all kinds of opposition (almost entirely from other Cns)...accusing us of trying to compete with "the world" and "using the devil's music", and so on (we give the devil FAR too much credit!). We kind of liked the picketing in front of our concert venues as it attracted attention and gave us a chance to share our faith with more people.

To the point, you'd have to be pretty blatant about antics, content, and appearance to turn me off. Art is very inclusive and broad. I always lean toward open and free expression vs censorship. There is no theological reason to categorize certain "types" or "genres" of music as being "more spiritual" than others (Calvin had a lot of good ideas, but on this one he was dead wrong). As for loud rock, check out Ps 150 (the band and the psalm)...not exactly a picture of your traditional church choir.

What turns me off, on the other hand, are Cn professionals that rely on their message for their worth, as though they should be given air time simply because they are spreading the word. I saw many "gospel" and "CCM" concerts in my day, many of which were very mediocre (on so many levels: composition, arranging, virtuosity...rather than providing anything original, most were just copying secular stuff or, worse, copying from each other...you could almost apply the same 3-chord progressions to any lyrics and call it an original...which often is true in the pop world as well). Most of them would take a long break midway through the show (total show: 1.5 hrs....??). On the other hand, I saw many rock, jazz, classical, and fusion concerts by "secular" artists (EWF, Yes, Chicago, Jarret, Corea, McLaughlin, Hancock, Weather Report and countless others) who absolutely killed with their outstanding talent, and often went all out, sweating and always energetic, 2+ hours of top-notch playing their hearts out, non-stop. Mediocrity is everywhere, but many CCM groups could learn a thing or two from "secular" bands.
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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8/24/2013 2:54:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 2:49:58 AM, thg wrote:
Interesting thread. I played in a Cn funk-rock-fusion band (think Headhunters, Tower of Power) during the 70s (Imago Dei), during which CCM was just getting started. We came across all kinds of opposition (almost entirely from other Cns)...accusing us of trying to compete with "the world" and "using the devil's music", and so on (we give the devil FAR too much credit!). We kind of liked the picketing in front of our concert venues as it attracted attention and gave us a chance to share our faith with more people.

To the point, you'd have to be pretty blatant about antics, content, and appearance to turn me off. Art is very inclusive and broad. I always lean toward open and free expression vs censorship. There is no theological reason to categorize certain "types" or "genres" of music as being "more spiritual" than others (Calvin had a lot of good ideas, but on this one he was dead wrong). As for loud rock, check out Ps 150 (the band and the psalm)...not exactly a picture of your traditional church choir.

What turns me off, on the other hand, are Cn professionals that rely on their message for their worth, as though they should be given air time simply because they are spreading the word. I saw many "gospel" and "CCM" concerts in my day, many of which were very mediocre (on so many levels: composition, arranging, virtuosity...rather than providing anything original, most were just copying secular stuff or, worse, copying from each other...you could almost apply the same 3-chord progressions to any lyrics and call it an original...which often is true in the pop world as well). Most of them would take a long break midway through the show (total show: 1.5 hrs....??). On the other hand, I saw many rock, jazz, classical, and fusion concerts by "secular" artists (EWF, Yes, Chicago, Jarret, Corea, McLaughlin, Hancock, Weather Report and countless others) who absolutely killed with their outstanding talent, and often went all out, sweating and always energetic, 2+ hours of top-notch playing their hearts out, non-stop. Mediocrity is everywhere, but many CCM groups could learn a thing or two from "secular" bands.

And thats why "Christian rock" is worldy, bcuase they have to go to secular bands to do anything. God said, "Be ye separate."
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
thg
Posts: 520
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8/24/2013 3:00:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 2:54:46 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 2:49:58 AM, thg wrote:
Interesting thread. I played in a Cn funk-rock-fusion band (think Headhunters, Tower of Power) during the 70s (Imago Dei), during which CCM was just getting started. We came across all kinds of opposition (almost entirely from other Cns)...accusing us of trying to compete with "the world" and "using the devil's music", and so on (we give the devil FAR too much credit!). We kind of liked the picketing in front of our concert venues as it attracted attention and gave us a chance to share our faith with more people.

To the point, you'd have to be pretty blatant about antics, content, and appearance to turn me off. Art is very inclusive and broad. I always lean toward open and free expression vs censorship. There is no theological reason to categorize certain "types" or "genres" of music as being "more spiritual" than others (Calvin had a lot of good ideas, but on this one he was dead wrong). As for loud rock, check out Ps 150 (the band and the psalm)...not exactly a picture of your traditional church choir.

What turns me off, on the other hand, are Cn professionals that rely on their message for their worth, as though they should be given air time simply because they are spreading the word. I saw many "gospel" and "CCM" concerts in my day, many of which were very mediocre (on so many levels: composition, arranging, virtuosity...rather than providing anything original, most were just copying secular stuff or, worse, copying from each other...you could almost apply the same 3-chord progressions to any lyrics and call it an original...which often is true in the pop world as well). Most of them would take a long break midway through the show (total show: 1.5 hrs....??). On the other hand, I saw many rock, jazz, classical, and fusion concerts by "secular" artists (EWF, Yes, Chicago, Jarret, Corea, McLaughlin, Hancock, Weather Report and countless others) who absolutely killed with their outstanding talent, and often went all out, sweating and always energetic, 2+ hours of top-notch playing their hearts out, non-stop. Mediocrity is everywhere, but many CCM groups could learn a thing or two from "secular" bands.

And thats why "Christian rock" is worldy, bcuase they have to go to secular bands to do anything. God said, "Be ye separate."

Ummm...your point is?..... Are you suggesting that learning from secular bands how to practice your craft until you're actually decent and play your heart out with all sincerity is a bad thing?..... What makes you think "rock" is not based on gospel music (black and white) in the first place? The "world" gets all its art from divine inspiration, in my opinion. So "secular" stuff often was "spiritual" before it ever became "secular". But if a secular band is presenting itself well...and if a CCM band isn't...then I'd rather listen to the secular band and hope the CCM would learn to do better...wouldn't you?
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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8/24/2013 12:07:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 1:09:14 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:29:18 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God.

Originally, music was probably created to seduce the opposite sex (or the same sex).

chapter and verse????? I'll give you mine: Job 38:4-7.

(He's Atheist.)
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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8/24/2013 12:13:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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8/24/2013 1:09:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God. There is nothing "glorifying" about taking the worldy, satanic image and applying "christian" lyrics to it. Paul once met a demon-posessed lady that said nothing but the Gospel truth:

And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation (Acts 16:16-17).

Even though the message (lyrics) were correct and true, the fact that a demon said them grieved Paul. Thus, if some nose-pierced, black haired teenage sings nothing but Jesus, it doesn't matter because he looks just like the Devil!

Lol, good Lord. So glad I'm not a fundamentalist.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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8/24/2013 5:41:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 1:09:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God. There is nothing "glorifying" about taking the worldy, satanic image and applying "christian" lyrics to it. Paul once met a demon-posessed lady that said nothing but the Gospel truth:

And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation (Acts 16:16-17).

Even though the message (lyrics) were correct and true, the fact that a demon said them grieved Paul. Thus, if some nose-pierced, black haired teenage sings nothing but Jesus, it doesn't matter because he looks just like the Devil!

Lol, good Lord. So glad I'm not a fundamentalist.

I'm just a Bible-believer. Your problem is that you don't tremble at the Word of God, where Isaiah 66:2 says, "For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word." I'd rather tremble at his word, than do something displeasing to God.
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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8/24/2013 9:29:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 1:09:14 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:29:18 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God.

Originally, music was probably created to seduce the opposite sex (or the same sex).

chapter and verse????? I'll give you mine: Job 38:4-7.

...was that a joke? Some things are true, even if you can't find a biblical verse to support them being true.
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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8/24/2013 9:41:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 9:29:25 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/24/2013 1:09:14 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:29:18 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God.

Originally, music was probably created to seduce the opposite sex (or the same sex).

chapter and verse????? I'll give you mine: Job 38:4-7.

...was that a joke? Some things are true, even if you can't find a biblical verse to support them being true.

So you make a statement with no evidence to support it and expect me to believe it's true? Rather illogical don't you think?
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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8/24/2013 11:29:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 9:41:04 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 9:29:25 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/24/2013 1:09:14 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:29:18 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God.

Originally, music was probably created to seduce the opposite sex (or the same sex).

chapter and verse????? I'll give you mine: Job 38:4-7.

...was that a joke? Some things are true, even if you can't find a biblical verse to support them being true.

So you make a statement with no evidence to support it and expect me to believe it's true? Rather illogical don't you think?

I wasn't submitting that statement for publication in a science journal. Those were just my thoughts on the topic. You can keep on believing only whatever's in your bible for all I care.
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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8/24/2013 11:57:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm an agnostic, but I listen to a number of Christian Rock bands. Mostly on the hard rock side. Acts like Flyleaf, Pillar and The Letter Black. I respect their religious beliefs, and they don't prevent me from appreciating the music. I do however prefer musicians who do not treat their music as a vehicle for the spreading of the word, and just allow the religion to influence their choice of lyrics and imagery. Thrice is one of my all time favourite acts, and their lyrics often draw heavily on religious devices. As a band their faiths are divided and they are not as such labelled a Christian group. This is my preferred approach. Make the music about the music and allow the message to be a part of that, don't write the music to preach the message.
thg
Posts: 520
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8/25/2013 12:52:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 11:57:12 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
I'm an agnostic, but I listen to a number of Christian Rock bands. Mostly on the hard rock side. Acts like Flyleaf, Pillar and The Letter Black. I respect their religious beliefs, and they don't prevent me from appreciating the music. I do however prefer musicians who do not treat their music as a vehicle for the spreading of the word, and just allow the religion to influence their choice of lyrics and imagery. Thrice is one of my all time favourite acts, and their lyrics often draw heavily on religious devices. As a band their faiths are divided and they are not as such labelled a Christian group. This is my preferred approach. Make the music about the music and allow the message to be a part of that, don't write the music to preach the message.

Good post! If people just want to spread the word, there are all kinds of ways to do it. Why choose rock? If they expect the rock world to take them (and their messeage) seriously, they should make sure they are skilled enough to hone their craft to a professional level. When people criticize such a group, sometimes it is because of the message...which is unfortunate. On the other hand, if the group is not that good and it gets criticized, the group should not claim they are being targeted because of their message. Being a good talent doesn't automatically make a good Cn...but, more important, being a good Cn doesn't automatically make a good talent.

One of my big gripes about a lot of Cn bands over the last 40 years is that they simply follow secular trends. I don't mean that they shouldn't play rock. That's fine. What I mean is, most of them don't bring anything creative to the table. They may be OK musicians, but their music sounds like an average pop/rock group. They sound as if they are just trying to copy off secular groups and rely on their message to make an impact. I say why not be more creative? The church actually sponsored and encouraged the arts for centuries. Bach and Handel were some of the more dedicated Cns in music history, and their music influenced and inspired millions. Secular folks were lucky if they could copy them and even come close. These days it seems like Cns are barely keeping up with secular trends. Why not try being innovative (think Take Six, Seawind, Crouch, Keaggy, and you guys probably could add a few to this list)? A good CCM group need not apologize for its message...nor for its talent.
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
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8/25/2013 1:09:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 11:57:12 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
I'm an agnostic, but I listen to a number of Christian Rock bands. Mostly on the hard rock side. Acts like Flyleaf, Pillar and The Letter Black. I respect their religious beliefs, and they don't prevent me from appreciating the music. I do however prefer musicians who do not treat their music as a vehicle for the spreading of the word, and just allow the religion to influence their choice of lyrics and imagery. Thrice is one of my all time favourite acts, and their lyrics often draw heavily on religious devices. As a band their faiths are divided and they are not as such labelled a Christian group. This is my preferred approach. Make the music about the music and allow the message to be a part of that, don't write the music to preach the message.

then whats the point of performing? Isn't it to lead souls to Christ? this is why CCM stinks in the eyes of God. Its about fame, not about Christ.
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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8/25/2013 8:17:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 9:41:04 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 9:29:25 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/24/2013 1:09:14 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:29:18 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/23/2013 10:07:59 PM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Music was created to glorify God.

Originally, music was probably created to seduce the opposite sex (or the same sex).

chapter and verse????? I'll give you mine: Job 38:4-7.

...was that a joke? Some things are true, even if you can't find a biblical verse to support them being true.

So you make a statement with no evidence to support it and expect me to believe it's true? Rather illogical don't you think?

Music was originally created to glorify God, Yes I remember hearing that also.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/25/2013 11:30:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The whole point IS to "glorify" God with what we have. There is no preferred style of worship that God likes lol. Any musician that wishes to praise God should extend that praise to it's fullest potential and that DOES NOT include being worldly, I'm talking about using our individual abilities and talents to glorify God with them.
There are many styles and genre of praise or evangelical music, musicians and sounds. Maybe King David liked to strum the harp, maybe traditional Jews like to yell and blaze on the horn, maybe grandma like classical, maybe Aunt Sue like soul music, maybe someone likes boring catholic droning depressing music, maybe the kid in DC likes to honor God with his talent at rapping and beats, maybe someone likes the flute or piano or maybe a guitar or maybe just some hand drums. Not everyone comes out of the womb singing opera. If anyone knows what type of praise music God prefers please inform me lol. Does it really matter whether we praise God with a stick over a rock? Give me a break.

Having said all that there are some Christian music and videos that I've seen that I'm a little suspicious about, but I tread myself carefully as not to point fingers or discriminate as well as force everyone into my own mold and narrow mind. And I certainly don't want to mistakenly sin on my own part, so if it is something I do not prefer I just won't listen to it.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/25/2013 11:37:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Do you think God is religious since He's the creator of all things that appear good and evil to sinners?

I'm a musician and love to hear all types of music that God created for His people to listen to during this first age.

We won't have any religion in the next age so enjoy your Christian hymns or hard rock that some Christians object to.

Remember God's commanment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/25/2013 11:38:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Do you think God is religious since He's the creator of all things that appear good and evil to sinners?

I'm a musician and love to hear all types of music that God created for His people to listen to during this first age.

We won't have any religion in the next age so enjoy your Christian hymns or hard rock that some Christians object to.

Remember God's commandment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/25/2013 12:17:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 11:37:48 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Do you think God is religious since He's the creator of all things that appear good and evil to sinners?

I'm a musician and love to hear all types of music that God created for His people to listen to during this first age.

We won't have any religion in the next age so enjoy your Christian hymns or hard rock that some Christians object to.

Remember God's commanment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

Hey! this is the first thing that I have heard you say apart from your indoctrination tactics, well you almost did lol. What type of instrument do you play?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/25/2013 1:08:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 12:17:35 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/25/2013 11:37:48 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Do you think God is religious since He's the creator of all things that appear good and evil to sinners?

I'm a musician and love to hear all types of music that God created for His people to listen to during this first age.

We won't have any religion in the next age so enjoy your Christian hymns or hard rock that some Christians object to.

Remember God's commanment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

Hey! this is the first thing that I have heard you say apart from your indoctrination tactics, well you almost did lol. What type of instrument do you play?

I began playing badminton racket after hearing the Beatles perform on TV in 1964. Two years later, my parents bought me an 18 dollar acoustic to learn how to play it.

Since then, I played on many different stringed instruments including a 1969 Fender Telecastor, a couple of Martin acoustics, D-18 and a 12 string, a Fender five string banjo, mandolin, Gibson Les Paul, Taylor D-31, and some other cheap guitars inbetween.

I had to sell my last acoustic guitar which was a Taylor D-31, bought new in 2003 for $3300 and got $900 for it two years ago when I started preaching the gospel here in Campbell, CA.

I played for my homeless friends a couple weeks ago with a cheap Fender acoustic that a friend had with him and they all loved it. I don't play songs anymore. I like to play my moods and whatever comes into my mind so my playing after my band years in the early eighties became a way for me to cope with this crazy world around me.

I love listening to all kinds of music that our Creator created for us to listen to. In fact, I still can hear the old Christian hymns in my mind that I learned as a child while I play the guitar to them. Some of the heavy rock is cool, too, because I love playing rythmn to them, which I played in the last band I was in. I had to give up the band when I married my second wife in 1982 and I haven't performed in a band since then. But I never quit playing because it was one of my loves of this world.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/25/2013 1:44:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:08:36 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/25/2013 12:17:35 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/25/2013 11:37:48 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Do you think God is religious since He's the creator of all things that appear good and evil to sinners?

I'm a musician and love to hear all types of music that God created for His people to listen to during this first age.

We won't have any religion in the next age so enjoy your Christian hymns or hard rock that some Christians object to.

Remember God's commanment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

Hey! this is the first thing that I have heard you say apart from your indoctrination tactics, well you almost did lol. What type of instrument do you play?

I began playing badminton racket after hearing the Beatles perform on TV in 1964. Two years later, my parents bought me an 18 dollar acoustic to learn how to play it.

Since then, I played on many different stringed instruments including a 1969 Fender Telecastor, a couple of Martin acoustics, D-18 and a 12 string, a Fender five string banjo, mandolin, Gibson Les Paul, Taylor D-31, and some other cheap guitars inbetween.

I had to sell my last acoustic guitar which was a Taylor D-31, bought new in 2003 for $3300 and got $900 for it two years ago when I started preaching the gospel here in Campbell, CA.

I played for my homeless friends a couple weeks ago with a cheap Fender acoustic that a friend had with him and they all loved it. I don't play songs anymore. I like to play my moods and whatever comes into my mind so my playing after my band years in the early eighties became a way for me to cope with this crazy world around me.

I love listening to all kinds of music that our Creator created for us to listen to. In fact, I still can hear the old Christian hymns in my mind that I learned as a child while I play the guitar to them. Some of the heavy rock is cool, too, because I love playing rythmn to them, which I played in the last band I was in. I had to give up the band when I married my second wife in 1982 and I haven't performed in a band since then. But I never quit playing because it was one of my loves of this world.

Cool, I would love to have a Fender Tele, we should be able to sell the guitars we buy for more than what we pay for em lol. I have a beautiful Les Paul now and a Martin.

If I may ask, if you're homeless how do you get access to the internet? you got a laptop you carrying around with ya?

Your parents, they were Christian weren't they?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/25/2013 2:35:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:44:57 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:08:36 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/25/2013 12:17:35 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/25/2013 11:37:48 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/23/2013 6:19:27 PM, justin.graves wrote:
So, about 2 months back, I made a topic about Contemporary Christian Music and a lot of people weighed in on it. However, in the trend, I noticed most people seemed to reference the pop or hip hop style of CCM. As I've looked deeper into this and done more research, I've found a sub-genre: Christian Rock. This has many levels, Christian Rock, Christian Hard Rock, Christian Metal, and all the way to Unblack Metal.

I've supplied videos of each in that order. Each of these videos claims that genre and a few others, and many of them inter-lap the genres in their songs. All claim to be Christian. Thoughts on this? I listen to some of this music, and not others.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Do you think God is religious since He's the creator of all things that appear good and evil to sinners?

I'm a musician and love to hear all types of music that God created for His people to listen to during this first age.

We won't have any religion in the next age so enjoy your Christian hymns or hard rock that some Christians object to.

Remember God's commanment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

Hey! this is the first thing that I have heard you say apart from your indoctrination tactics, well you almost did lol. What type of instrument do you play?

I began playing badminton racket after hearing the Beatles perform on TV in 1964. Two years later, my parents bought me an 18 dollar acoustic to learn how to play it.

Since then, I played on many different stringed instruments including a 1969 Fender Telecastor, a couple of Martin acoustics, D-18 and a 12 string, a Fender five string banjo, mandolin, Gibson Les Paul, Taylor D-31, and some other cheap guitars inbetween.

I had to sell my last acoustic guitar which was a Taylor D-31, bought new in 2003 for $3300 and got $900 for it two years ago when I started preaching the gospel here in Campbell, CA.

I played for my homeless friends a couple weeks ago with a cheap Fender acoustic that a friend had with him and they all loved it. I don't play songs anymore. I like to play my moods and whatever comes into my mind so my playing after my band years in the early eighties became a way for me to cope with this crazy world around me.

I love listening to all kinds of music that our Creator created for us to listen to. In fact, I still can hear the old Christian hymns in my mind that I learned as a child while I play the guitar to them. Some of the heavy rock is cool, too, because I love playing rythmn to them, which I played in the last band I was in. I had to give up the band when I married my second wife in 1982 and I haven't performed in a band since then. But I never quit playing because it was one of my loves of this world.

Cool, I would love to have a Fender Tele, we should be able to sell the guitars we buy for more than what we pay for em lol. I have a beautiful Les Paul now and a Martin.

If I may ask, if you're homeless how do you get access to the internet? you got a laptop you carrying around with ya?

Your parents, they were Christian weren't they?

I had to sell everything I had when I came back from living in Spain because God had stopped me from working in this world in the winter of 2008-2009. He gave me a penalty payment from a Worker's Comp claim that I opened up in 2000 for a back problem that I have. This penalty payment was used to buy me and my spanish wife laptops. One for me to write all the testimonies into documents from the words that God put in my mind to write and to make videos with of me speaking into them. This took about three years to do before He sent me back to Campbell, CA, where I had raised a family with my ex-wife since 1986.

I was without any laptop for over a year until March of this year. Then He gave me a laptop to go online in Christian forums to preach the gospel to them. Besides using it to listen to music in the mornings while I write a new message on my whiteboard, I use it to preach the gospel with. I don't use it for anything other than that because I'm no longer the sinner who loved to watch porno and look up things on the internet.

God removed my sexual desire in the fall of 2007 ( made me a eunuch ) so that I couldn't be distracted by my beautiful spanish wife while He was giving me words to write into computer docs. I'll never know what it is to have sex with a woman again because God's servants won't be used for reproducing new people in the next age. We're only used to speak into existence, the new language and all the knowledge that God's people will use in Paradise, the new earthly existence with new flesh bodies to experience life with.

My parents were Lutherans so I went to church until I was 16 years old. At that time, I became a full blown alcoholic and stopped going to any religious gatherings except for some funerals I had to go to for my brothers and other family members.

God forced me into Christianity on June 28th, 1984 to get me to read the Bible that was given to me when I was 14 years old for a Lutheran confirmation. I had never opened it up in 15 years that I carried it around with me.

He gave me a very strong desire to read the Bible for two years, then He took it away except for attending some Bible studies with some Christian groups I was involved with. He gave me a strong desire to start going to church, especially to hear the music. I attended a couple of churches with awesome musicians and loved every minute of it but in 1992, God began humiliating me out of Christianity five different times in about six months. This stopped me from going to church and attending Bible studies.

For the next fifteen years, He worked on getting me ready to be born again into His Kingdom, which only means that my mind would be opened up to the knowledge of Christ, which I learned through all that writing that it was my created existence, but also the created existence of all God's people.

He only uses His prophets and saints to testify to this Christ during this age because we're created as Christ, all of God's energy that He spoke into existence through us, the Word of God. The Word is God's first created invisible machine, which is His voice. From that voice, came all the wavelengths ( bits of information ), which is who we really are. What we perceive as this world is only an illusion made from vibrations of energy that we're created as.

There's much to tell to my friends but most of them can't handle it all at once. This is the reason God keeps some of them around me on a daily basis to teach them deeper things of God, which is in the invisible Christ that we're created as.

It's possible you're a believer and the reason you asked me what musical instruments I played. Most unbelievers aren't interested in anything I say, especially when I talk from the invisible Christ and all it contains.
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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8/25/2013 9:07:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:09:50 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 8/24/2013 11:57:12 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
I'm an agnostic, but I listen to a number of Christian Rock bands. Mostly on the hard rock side. Acts like Flyleaf, Pillar and The Letter Black. I respect their religious beliefs, and they don't prevent me from appreciating the music. I do however prefer musicians who do not treat their music as a vehicle for the spreading of the word, and just allow the religion to influence their choice of lyrics and imagery. Thrice is one of my all time favourite acts, and their lyrics often draw heavily on religious devices. As a band their faiths are divided and they are not as such labelled a Christian group. This is my preferred approach. Make the music about the music and allow the message to be a part of that, don't write the music to preach the message.

then whats the point of performing? Isn't it to lead souls to Christ? this is why CCM stinks in the eyes of God. Its about fame, not about Christ.
On the first bit, if you think religion has sole claim over music performance then I would submit to you that you are of the minority view (by a long way). If God exists and is responsible for deciding the purpose of all things and he created music to lead souls to Christ then fair enough. If he wanted us to have no other purpose to music then he probably shouldn't have made performing such an enjoyable thing for both artist and listener.

On the second, I must admit, I do not at all understand what you mean. That seems completely the opposite to what I said.