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The New Jew

s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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8/28/2013 12:54:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

Hmmmm... well, there is this thing Christians believe called the "New Testament." Meaning it is newer than the "Old Testament." Pretty much meaning more testament. So when you say Christians "nterpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop." That only makes sense because they are evaluating old information through the new information.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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8/28/2013 1:02:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:54:29 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

Hmmmm... well, there is this thing Christians believe called the "New Testament." Meaning it is newer than the "Old Testament." Pretty much meaning more testament. So when you say Christians "nterpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop." That only makes sense because they are evaluating old information through the new information.

Since the Christian bible did not exist when the Jewish canon was comprised does that mean the Jewish people had it all wrong, until the Christians came on the scene to correct them?
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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8/28/2013 1:13:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 1:02:07 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:54:29 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

Hmmmm... well, there is this thing Christians believe called the "New Testament." Meaning it is newer than the "Old Testament." Pretty much meaning more testament. So when you say Christians "nterpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop." That only makes sense because they are evaluating old information through the new information.

Since the Christian bible did not exist when the Jewish canon was comprised does that mean the Jewish people had it all wrong, until the Christians came on the scene to correct them?

No, it means that Christians have a better understanding. Matthew 5:17 ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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8/28/2013 1:24:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 1:13:37 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 1:02:07 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:54:29 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

Hmmmm... well, there is this thing Christians believe called the "New Testament." Meaning it is newer than the "Old Testament." Pretty much meaning more testament. So when you say Christians "nterpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop." That only makes sense because they are evaluating old information through the new information.

Since the Christian bible did not exist when the Jewish canon was comprised does that mean the Jewish people had it all wrong, until the Christians came on the scene to correct them?

No, it means that Christians have a better understanding. Matthew 5:17 ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

So, the god of Christianity did a better job at explaining the meaning of the Jewish bible than the god of Judaism?

If the Jew was poor at understanding his, or her, own religion, how can we trust anything the Jewish bible says, since Jews were the ones who wrote it?
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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8/28/2013 1:38:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 1:24:27 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 8/28/2013 1:13:37 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 1:02:07 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:54:29 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

Hmmmm... well, there is this thing Christians believe called the "New Testament." Meaning it is newer than the "Old Testament." Pretty much meaning more testament. So when you say Christians "nterpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop." That only makes sense because they are evaluating old information through the new information.

Since the Christian bible did not exist when the Jewish canon was comprised does that mean the Jewish people had it all wrong, until the Christians came on the scene to correct them?

No, it means that Christians have a better understanding. Matthew 5:17 ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

So, the god of Christianity did a better job at explaining the meaning of the Jewish bible than the god of Judaism?

If the Jew was poor at understanding his, or her, own religion, how can we trust anything the Jewish bible says, since Jews were the ones who wrote it?

Sigh... the God of the Christianity is the same as the Jewish God. God simply added to what was given before. I really don't get what you mean by Christians trying to force the meaning of words. Most to all major Greek and Hebrew scholars interpret the Bible, both OT and NT, the same. So... non-Christian scholars translate them too...

And Jews wrote the Bible, but the Hand of God was on them, so He told them what to say, I'm not being Anti-Semitic here, and Christians use the "Jewish Bible" (OT) all the time... it kind of makes up more than have of the entire Christian Bible.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/28/2013 2:12:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In Jewish mythology, Satan literally translates to "adversary." He is neither evil nor does he control hell (no Jewish hell). More so, he essentially acts as a prosecutor, seeking out and condemning people for their bad deeds.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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8/28/2013 3:16:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 1:38:43 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 1:24:27 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 8/28/2013 1:13:37 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 1:02:07 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:54:29 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

Hmmmm... well, there is this thing Christians believe called the "New Testament." Meaning it is newer than the "Old Testament." Pretty much meaning more testament. So when you say Christians "nterpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop." That only makes sense because they are evaluating old information through the new information.

Since the Christian bible did not exist when the Jewish canon was comprised does that mean the Jewish people had it all wrong, until the Christians came on the scene to correct them?

No, it means that Christians have a better understanding. Matthew 5:17 ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

So, the god of Christianity did a better job at explaining the meaning of the Jewish bible than the god of Judaism?

If the Jew was poor at understanding his, or her, own religion, how can we trust anything the Jewish bible says, since Jews were the ones who wrote it?

Sigh... the God of the Christianity is the same as the Jewish God. God simply added to what was given before. I really don't get what you mean by Christians trying to force the meaning of words. Most to all major Greek and Hebrew scholars interpret the Bible, both OT and NT, the same. So... non-Christian scholars translate them too...

So, you're saying it was one god, yet, with dissociative identity disorder; in one instance, God is saying,

"And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." - Exodus 21: 23-25

Yet, in another instance, God says,

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you...;" - Matthew 5: 38-44

In the Jewish bible, God blesses King David by given him the throne of Israel and the many wives of King Saul (II Samuel 12: 7 & 8).

The modern Christian (at least, those from mainline denominations) condemns polygamy.

Slavery is codified in the law of Moses, as a legitimate way to pay off one's debt.

Jews were not to marry outside of their tribe.

Certain foods were abominable.

The wholesale slaughter of entire nations was ordered by God.

So, not only were the genocides, enslavements, rapes, and possessions of other nations condoned by the Jewish god, they were also ordered.

Does this sound like the Christian god to you? If it doesn't, then, either the god of the Jewish bible is different than the god of the Christian bible or it's one god with multiple personality disorder.


And Jews wrote the Bible, but the Hand of God was on them, so He told them what to say, I'm not being Anti-Semitic here, and Christians use the "Jewish Bible" (OT) all the time... it kind of makes up more than have of the entire Christian Bible.
Jack212
Posts: 572
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8/28/2013 4:45:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:

[stuff]

At 8/28/2013 12:54:29 PM, justin.graves wrote:

[stuff]

S-anthony uses an argument from antiquity fallacy. Just because something is older doesn't make it correct.

Justin.graves uses an argument from novelty fallacy. Just because something is newer doesn't make it correct.

Both have failed to realize that the Bible is inaccurate in general and the existence of God doubtful.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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8/28/2013 5:17:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 4:45:47 PM, Jack212 wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:

[stuff]

At 8/28/2013 12:54:29 PM, justin.graves wrote:

[stuff]

S-anthony uses an argument from antiquity fallacy. Just because something is older doesn't make it correct.

Justin.graves uses an argument from novelty fallacy. Just because something is newer doesn't make it correct.

Both have failed to realize that the Bible is inaccurate in general and the existence of God doubtful.

If you read the argument, before posting a comment, you'll see I never said the Jewish bible was correct about anything. My contention is Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion; therefore, the Christian's interpretation of the Jewish bible cannot be made using the principles of the Christian religion.
Jack212
Posts: 572
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8/28/2013 5:50:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 5:17:27 PM, s-anthony wrote:

If you read the argument, before posting a comment, you'll see I never said the Jewish bible was correct about anything. My contention is Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion; therefore, the Christian's interpretation of the Jewish bible cannot be made using the principles of the Christian religion.

Your argument was fine, it was your comment war with Justin.graves that I was referring to.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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8/28/2013 10:26:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 5:50:30 PM, Jack212 wrote:
At 8/28/2013 5:17:27 PM, s-anthony wrote:

If you read the argument, before posting a comment, you'll see I never said the Jewish bible was correct about anything. My contention is Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion; therefore, the Christian's interpretation of the Jewish bible cannot be made using the principles of the Christian religion.

Your argument was fine, it was your comment war with Justin.graves that I was referring to.

Sorry. My comment war was my argument.
Floid
Posts: 751
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8/29/2013 12:21:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you read the argument, before posting a comment, you'll see I never said the Jewish bible was correct about anything. My contention is Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion; therefore, the Christian's interpretation of the Jewish bible cannot be made using the principles of the Christian religion.

That argument is ignorant of history as is your line of reasoning that the Jewish and Christian god is not the same. Christianity went from a persecuted minor religion, to a major religion that did the persecuting, to falling in line with the reason and logic given of the 1700 and 1800s that saw democracy, personal freedoms, and science flourish. For the most part so has Judaism, after all even though the Old Testament/Jewish teachings state God allows slavery you would be hard pressed to find a Christian or a Jew in modern times that owns a slave.

if you compare their origins, early history, and literal teachings of their text it is clear Christianity is a religion based on Judaism. The sudden shift in god's personality from a god of war and destruction to a compassionate being does go unexplained, but Christianity is clearly an extension of Judaism. The fact that modern history has shifted the teachings of both away from the roots does nothing to change that fact.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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8/29/2013 7:42:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/29/2013 12:21:53 AM, Floid wrote:
If you read the argument, before posting a comment, you'll see I never said the Jewish bible was correct about anything. My contention is Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion; therefore, the Christian's interpretation of the Jewish bible cannot be made using the principles of the Christian religion.

That argument is ignorant of history as is your line of reasoning that the Jewish and Christian god is not the same. Christianity went from a persecuted minor religion, to a major religion that did the persecuting, to falling in line with the reason and logic given of the 1700 and 1800s that saw democracy, personal freedoms, and science flourish. For the most part so has Judaism, after all even though the Old Testament/Jewish teachings state God allows slavery you would be hard pressed to find a Christian or a Jew in modern times that owns a slave.

if you compare their origins, early history, and literal teachings of their text it is clear Christianity is a religion based on Judaism. The sudden shift in god's personality from a god of war and destruction to a compassionate being does go unexplained, but Christianity is clearly an extension of Judaism. The fact that modern history has shifted the teachings of both away from the roots does nothing to change that fact.

Have you tried telling an Orthodox Jew he, or she, is a Christian or a Christian he, or she, must follow the precepts of Judaism?
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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8/30/2013 1:12:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
question4u
Posts: 492
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9/2/2013 12:24:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

I agree, they dont realize that jewish- greeks were the ones who gave them their gospel
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/2/2013 1:28:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

Even the Jewish prophets were deceived of the Truth, even when they knew Him and wrote, spoke and did things for Him.

We saints understand because we know who we are in the Truth that the prophets didn't know.
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/7/2014 11:05:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:05:20 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's funny; most Christians believe they know more about Judaism than a Jew. They often argue against a Jewish interpretation of the Jewish bible, as though somehow the Jewish canon did not exist until the birth of the Christian religion. They interpret everything, in the Jewish bible, from the meaning of God to Hell and Satan with a Christian back drop. In the Christian mind, God has a personal relationship with creation, Hell is a place of everlasting torment, and Satan is the lucifer found in the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah. However, if anyone does even a cursory reading of Orthodox Jewish theology, it is made blatantly clear these are misunderstandings of the Jewish canon.

That's because modern Judaism doesn't follow biblical Judaism. Many Jewishteach ings come from the rabbis living around the time of Ezra, not from the ancestors. There are Christians who have an understanding of the Old testament and can prove Jesus is God.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/8/2014 12:16:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Christianity is older than Judaism. In fact, Christianity is the world's oldest spiritual teaching with the Messiah symbolism represented in the very first figurines carved by human beings 35,000 years ago. Not the Willendorf Venuses but the Lion-Man which is an astrological creature, the basis of both the Egyptian Sphinx and the Hebrew Ariel, Lion of God, Angel of Peace, Angel of Jerusalem. The first Lion-Man has the Lion head on a Man's body, the later ones have the Man head of a Lion's body. The Messianic tension is shown in the astrological opposition of Aquarius (Man) to Leo (Lion). It is the Messiah choice between the Sage King (Christ) or the Warrior King (David), the Cross bar represented in the Celestial Torah in the Grand Cross of Heaven of the Fixed Signs that also compose Ezekiel's Chariot of God, the Merkabah. Humanitarian or Ruler, Aquarius or Leo, is the Messianic choice represented astrologically. Here's what the Gospel of Thomas says about the Man/Lion tension:
"Jesus said, 'Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man." Ariel Sharon made the wrong choice in his career. Arielmessenger brought the Holy Land and the world, Paxcalibur, Sword of Peace, and followed God Most High's instruction.

I teach Celestial Torah Christianity, the world's oldest religious consciousness and most persistent. Judaism is not a real religion in in itself as it was created as a nationalistic enterprise and reeks of narcissistic nationalism replacing spiritual consciousness. God uses the old religions including the Abrahamic ones as pack horses carrying spiritual information encoded within Scriptures, each received as if it was alone only of God but none of them agreeing and actually all of them highly prone to turning religion into politics of warfare. Thus we see Pauline Christianity become the tool of first Rome, then all of Europe to seize control of the earth. Now Muhammad's Islam wants in on the action again and on and on goes the Abrahamic signature, Endless Religious Warfare. The choice is always ours for believers in God.
You don't have to join Bad Ideas encoded in ancient religious form. The Celestial Torah is under no one's control but our Heavenly Father and the Holy Family, the Elohim, who's messenger I am, here to teach what God Most High has taught me in spiritual communion and God-guided research, the formerly lost but now found, Celestial Torah, something you can find within Judaism, Pauline Christianity, the Gnostic Gospels, even in the Quran, but the believers aren't aware of it as they each follow the Archon instructing them in Bad Religion that kills people.

Btw, I teach the Job of the Jew too, being one myself but raised secular and thus escaping Judaism's intense indoctrination into the world's original paranoid religious cult.