Total Posts:126|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Jesus is god as the Bible says.

bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 5:51:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 7:32:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 5:51:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,

Except that scripture doesn't say he is God, except in versions corrupted by Trinitarians. The whole tenor of scripture denies that.

However he was God's son, come down to earth to occupy a perfect human body, in order to carry out the purposes of his Father.

Scriptural indications, including some exchange of roles, tend to indicate that he may have been Michael the Archangel, a title whihc of it's own tends to indicate that it was indeed Michael who came down from heaven.

The scripture at John 1:14, as well as John 1:18, indicates that the one who became Christ was created as "the beginning of his way" by his Father (Proverbs 8:22) and was the only being created by God alone, who thereafter assisted in the creation of everything else, (Proverbs 8:30,31; John 1:3;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

You notice that verse clearly says that he was the "image of the invisible God" not God himself. It also calls him the "firstborn of all creation" whihc fits in perfectly with him being God's only begotten son.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him,
but the world did not know him.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Colossians 1:16 because by means of him+ all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things .

There is so much in scripture that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that the one who became Christ was his spirit son, created by him and then helping in creating everything else, who came to earth to occupy a perfect human body died, and was resurrected, in his previous spirit state after 3 days in the grave. OK parts of three days, but three separate days, as Jews at the time measured them, none the less.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 7:48:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 7:32:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 5:51:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,

Except that scripture doesn't say he is God, except in versions corrupted by Trinitarians. The whole tenor of scripture denies that.

However he was God's son, come down to earth to occupy a perfect human body, in order to carry out the purposes of his Father.

Scriptural indications, including some exchange of roles, tend to indicate that he may have been Michael the Archangel, a title whihc of it's own tends to indicate that it was indeed Michael who came down from heaven.

The scripture at John 1:14, as well as John 1:18, indicates that the one who became Christ was created as "the beginning of his way" by his Father (Proverbs 8:22) and was the only being created by God alone, who thereafter assisted in the creation of everything else, (Proverbs 8:30,31; John 1:3;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

You notice that verse clearly says that he was the "image of the invisible God" not God himself. It also calls him the "firstborn of all creation" whihc fits in perfectly with him being God's only begotten son.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him,
but the world did not know him.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Colossians 1:16 because by means of him+ all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things .

There is so much in scripture that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that the one who became Christ was his spirit son, created by him and then helping in creating everything else, who came to earth to occupy a perfect human body died, and was resurrected, in his previous spirit state after 3 days in the grave. OK parts of three days, but three separate days, as Jews at the time measured them, none the less.
Lets look at the three kings:
They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience."
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 8:27:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 7:48:21 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:32:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 5:51:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,

Except that scripture doesn't say he is God, except in versions corrupted by Trinitarians. The whole tenor of scripture denies that.

However he was God's son, come down to earth to occupy a perfect human body, in order to carry out the purposes of his Father.

Scriptural indications, including some exchange of roles, tend to indicate that he may have been Michael the Archangel, a title whihc of it's own tends to indicate that it was indeed Michael who came down from heaven.

The scripture at John 1:14, as well as John 1:18, indicates that the one who became Christ was created as "the beginning of his way" by his Father (Proverbs 8:22) and was the only being created by God alone, who thereafter assisted in the creation of everything else, (Proverbs 8:30,31; John 1:3;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

You notice that verse clearly says that he was the "image of the invisible God" not God himself. It also calls him the "firstborn of all creation" whihc fits in perfectly with him being God's only begotten son.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him,
but the world did not know him.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Colossians 1:16 because by means of him+ all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things .

There is so much in scripture that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that the one who became Christ was his spirit son, created by him and then helping in creating everything else, who came to earth to occupy a perfect human body died, and was resurrected, in his previous spirit state after 3 days in the grave. OK parts of three days, but three separate days, as Jews at the time measured them, none the less.
Lets look at the three kings:
They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience."

Yes, let's look at them shall we.

1) They are actually Magi, Astrologers, not kings at al, and as Astrologers they were of a group despised by God.

2) They were led by the star, not straight to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem whihc alerted Herod to a rival, and caused children from birth to two years old to be killed.

The two statements above indicate that they were guided not by God, but by Satan.

3) Judging by the above their visit was approximately a year after Christ's birth, and according to scripture the family had by that time moved into a house.

4) Scripture gives us no indication as to how many there were. The number three has been adopted because of the number of gifts recorded, but it is unlikely that any would only have brought one gift.

All the above makes a complete nonsense of the Nativity plays performed at that pagan festival, Christmas.

They felt they were greeting a future king, it had nothing to do with worship but simply the reverence due to a king., and the symbolism of the gifts fits that also, and also adds weight to the idea that they would each have brought some of all the three gifts.

As I say. No way would God have arranged that though he already knew it was going to happen and had prophesied the deaths of all those children, murdered in order to prevent a rival for the throne Herod sat on and no doubt hoped would be passed down to his descendants.

That was so self evidently the work of Satan, as has the distortion of the story itself.

Come to that as has the distortion of scripture and the spirit behind people like yourself who support and spread such lies.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 8:31:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 8:27:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:48:21 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:32:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 5:51:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,

Except that scripture doesn't say he is God, except in versions corrupted by Trinitarians. The whole tenor of scripture denies that.

However he was God's son, come down to earth to occupy a perfect human body, in order to carry out the purposes of his Father.

Scriptural indications, including some exchange of roles, tend to indicate that he may have been Michael the Archangel, a title whihc of it's own tends to indicate that it was indeed Michael who came down from heaven.

The scripture at John 1:14, as well as John 1:18, indicates that the one who became Christ was created as "the beginning of his way" by his Father (Proverbs 8:22) and was the only being created by God alone, who thereafter assisted in the creation of everything else, (Proverbs 8:30,31; John 1:3;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

You notice that verse clearly says that he was the "image of the invisible God" not God himself. It also calls him the "firstborn of all creation" whihc fits in perfectly with him being God's only begotten son.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him,
but the world did not know him.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Colossians 1:16 because by means of him+ all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things .

There is so much in scripture that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that the one who became Christ was his spirit son, created by him and then helping in creating everything else, who came to earth to occupy a perfect human body died, and was resurrected, in his previous spirit state after 3 days in the grave. OK parts of three days, but three separate days, as Jews at the time measured them, none the less.
Lets look at the three kings:
They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience."

Yes, let's look at them shall we.

1) They are actually Magi, Astrologers, not kings at al, and as Astrologers they were of a group despised by God.

2) They were led by the star, not straight to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem whihc alerted Herod to a rival, and caused children from birth to two years old to be killed.

The two statements above indicate that they were guided not by God, but by Satan.

3) Judging by the above their visit was approximately a year after Christ's birth, and according to scripture the family had by that time moved into a house.

4) Scripture gives us no indication as to how many there were. The number three has been adopted because of the number of gifts recorded, but it is unlikely that any would only have brought one gift.

All the above makes a complete nonsense of the Nativity plays performed at that pagan festival, Christmas.

They felt they were greeting a future king, it had nothing to do with worship but simply the reverence due to a king., and the symbolism of the gifts fits that also, and also adds weight to the idea that they would each have brought some of all the three gifts.

As I say. No way would God have arranged that though he already knew it was going to happen and had prophesied the deaths of all those children, murdered in order to prevent a rival for the throne Herod sat on and no doubt hoped would be passed down to his descendants.

That was so self evidently the work of Satan, as has the distortion of the story itself.

Come to that as has the distortion of scripture and the spirit behind people like yourself who support and spread such lies.

Then perhaps this might help you understand mad.

Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 8:32:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
BTW, what about this?

"When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 8:50:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 8:31:24 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:27:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:48:21 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:32:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 5:51:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,

Except that scripture doesn't say he is God, except in versions corrupted by Trinitarians. The whole tenor of scripture denies that.

However he was God's son, come down to earth to occupy a perfect human body, in order to carry out the purposes of his Father.

Scriptural indications, including some exchange of roles, tend to indicate that he may have been Michael the Archangel, a title whihc of it's own tends to indicate that it was indeed Michael who came down from heaven.

The scripture at John 1:14, as well as John 1:18, indicates that the one who became Christ was created as "the beginning of his way" by his Father (Proverbs 8:22) and was the only being created by God alone, who thereafter assisted in the creation of everything else, (Proverbs 8:30,31; John 1:3;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

You notice that verse clearly says that he was the "image of the invisible God" not God himself. It also calls him the "firstborn of all creation" whihc fits in perfectly with him being God's only begotten son.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him,
but the world did not know him.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Colossians 1:16 because by means of him+ all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things .

There is so much in scripture that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that the one who became Christ was his spirit son, created by him and then helping in creating everything else, who came to earth to occupy a perfect human body died, and was resurrected, in his previous spirit state after 3 days in the grave. OK parts of three days, but three separate days, as Jews at the time measured them, none the less.
Lets look at the three kings:
They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience."

Yes, let's look at them shall we.

1) They are actually Magi, Astrologers, not kings at al, and as Astrologers they were of a group despised by God.

2) They were led by the star, not straight to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem whihc alerted Herod to a rival, and caused children from birth to two years old to be killed.

The two statements above indicate that they were guided not by God, but by Satan.

3) Judging by the above their visit was approximately a year after Christ's birth, and according to scripture the family had by that time moved into a house.

4) Scripture gives us no indication as to how many there were. The number three has been adopted because of the number of gifts recorded, but it is unlikely that any would only have brought one gift.

All the above makes a complete nonsense of the Nativity plays performed at that pagan festival, Christmas.

They felt they were greeting a future king, it had nothing to do with worship but simply the reverence due to a king., and the symbolism of the gifts fits that also, and also adds weight to the idea that they would each have brought some of all the three gifts.

As I say. No way would God have arranged that though he already knew it was going to happen and had prophesied the deaths of all those children, murdered in order to prevent a rival for the throne Herod sat on and no doubt hoped would be passed down to his descendants.

That was so self evidently the work of Satan, as has the distortion of the story itself.

Come to that as has the distortion of scripture and the spirit behind people like yourself who support and spread such lies.

Then perhaps this might help you understand mad.

Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man

Worship is a word, like so many in English, with many meanings. He was not worshipped at any time, in the sense we should worship his Father, whom he worshipped. (John 20:17)
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 8:53:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 8:50:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:31:24 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:27:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:48:21 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:32:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 5:51:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,

Except that scripture doesn't say he is God, except in versions corrupted by Trinitarians. The whole tenor of scripture denies that.

However he was God's son, come down to earth to occupy a perfect human body, in order to carry out the purposes of his Father.

Scriptural indications, including some exchange of roles, tend to indicate that he may have been Michael the Archangel, a title whihc of it's own tends to indicate that it was indeed Michael who came down from heaven.

The scripture at John 1:14, as well as John 1:18, indicates that the one who became Christ was created as "the beginning of his way" by his Father (Proverbs 8:22) and was the only being created by God alone, who thereafter assisted in the creation of everything else, (Proverbs 8:30,31; John 1:3;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

You notice that verse clearly says that he was the "image of the invisible God" not God himself. It also calls him the "firstborn of all creation" whihc fits in perfectly with him being God's only begotten son.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him,
but the world did not know him.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Colossians 1:16 because by means of him+ all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things .

There is so much in scripture that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that the one who became Christ was his spirit son, created by him and then helping in creating everything else, who came to earth to occupy a perfect human body died, and was resurrected, in his previous spirit state after 3 days in the grave. OK parts of three days, but three separate days, as Jews at the time measured them, none the less.
Lets look at the three kings:
They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience."

Yes, let's look at them shall we.

1) They are actually Magi, Astrologers, not kings at al, and as Astrologers they were of a group despised by God.

2) They were led by the star, not straight to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem whihc alerted Herod to a rival, and caused children from birth to two years old to be killed.

The two statements above indicate that they were guided not by God, but by Satan.

3) Judging by the above their visit was approximately a year after Christ's birth, and according to scripture the family had by that time moved into a house.

4) Scripture gives us no indication as to how many there were. The number three has been adopted because of the number of gifts recorded, but it is unlikely that any would only have brought one gift.

All the above makes a complete nonsense of the Nativity plays performed at that pagan festival, Christmas.

They felt they were greeting a future king, it had nothing to do with worship but simply the reverence due to a king., and the symbolism of the gifts fits that also, and also adds weight to the idea that they would each have brought some of all the three gifts.

As I say. No way would God have arranged that though he already knew it was going to happen and had prophesied the deaths of all those children, murdered in order to prevent a rival for the throne Herod sat on and no doubt hoped would be passed down to his descendants.

That was so self evidently the work of Satan, as has the distortion of the story itself.

Come to that as has the distortion of scripture and the spirit behind people like yourself who support and spread such lies.

Then perhaps this might help you understand mad.

Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man

Worship is a word, like so many in English, with many meanings. He was not worshipped at any time, in the sense we should worship his Father, whom he worshipped. (John 20:17)
What about Prayer to Jesus would that be the act of a heretic to?
Acts7:59 While they were stoning Stephen, he prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60 Then he knelt down and cried out in a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he died.[k]
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 9:35:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 8:53:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:50:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:31:24 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:27:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:48:21 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:32:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 5:51:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,

Except that scripture doesn't say he is God, except in versions corrupted by Trinitarians. The whole tenor of scripture denies that.

However he was God's son, come down to earth to occupy a perfect human body, in order to carry out the purposes of his Father.

Scriptural indications, including some exchange of roles, tend to indicate that he may have been Michael the Archangel, a title whihc of it's own tends to indicate that it was indeed Michael who came down from heaven.

The scripture at John 1:14, as well as John 1:18, indicates that the one who became Christ was created as "the beginning of his way" by his Father (Proverbs 8:22) and was the only being created by God alone, who thereafter assisted in the creation of everything else, (Proverbs 8:30,31; John 1:3;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

You notice that verse clearly says that he was the "image of the invisible God" not God himself. It also calls him the "firstborn of all creation" whihc fits in perfectly with him being God's only begotten son.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him,
but the world did not know him.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Colossians 1:16 because by means of him+ all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things .

There is so much in scripture that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that the one who became Christ was his spirit son, created by him and then helping in creating everything else, who came to earth to occupy a perfect human body died, and was resurrected, in his previous spirit state after 3 days in the grave. OK parts of three days, but three separate days, as Jews at the time measured them, none the less.
Lets look at the three kings:
They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience."

Yes, let's look at them shall we.

1) They are actually Magi, Astrologers, not kings at al, and as Astrologers they were of a group despised by God.

2) They were led by the star, not straight to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem whihc alerted Herod to a rival, and caused children from birth to two years old to be killed.

The two statements above indicate that they were guided not by God, but by Satan.

3) Judging by the above their visit was approximately a year after Christ's birth, and according to scripture the family had by that time moved into a house.

4) Scripture gives us no indication as to how many there were. The number three has been adopted because of the number of gifts recorded, but it is unlikely that any would only have brought one gift.

All the above makes a complete nonsense of the Nativity plays performed at that pagan festival, Christmas.

They felt they were greeting a future king, it had nothing to do with worship but simply the reverence due to a king., and the symbolism of the gifts fits that also, and also adds weight to the idea that they would each have brought some of all the three gifts.

As I say. No way would God have arranged that though he already knew it was going to happen and had prophesied the deaths of all those children, murdered in order to prevent a rival for the throne Herod sat on and no doubt hoped would be passed down to his descendants.

That was so self evidently the work of Satan, as has the distortion of the story itself.

Come to that as has the distortion of scripture and the spirit behind people like yourself who support and spread such lies.

Then perhaps this might help you understand mad.

Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man

Worship is a word, like so many in English, with many meanings. He was not worshipped at any time, in the sense we should worship his Father, whom he worshipped. (John 20:17)
What about Prayer to Jesus would that be the act of a heretic to?
Acts7:59 While they were stoning Stephen, he prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60 Then he knelt down and cried out in a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he died.[k]

Well, Jesus is the "intermediary between God and man" so technically the prayer should be to his Father, Jehovah, and through Christ. So if you want to be Pharisaical about it, yes, but I doubt either God or Christ would take a sincere and well intentioned prayer to his son amiss. At least it would be recognising the son's part ion all this.

On top of that, as the judging is left to Christ so in the case of one such as Stephen to seek Jesus blessing is not inappropriate.

God doesn't expect us tog et everything right, he knows that is beyond us, especially in our current imperfect state, so he does make some allowance for well intentioned error.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 10:04:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 9:35:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:53:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:50:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:31:24 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 8:27:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:48:21 AM, bulproof wrote:

It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself,

Except that scripture doesn't say he is God, except in versions corrupted by Trinitarians. The whole tenor of scripture denies that.

However he was God's son, come down to earth to occupy a perfect human body, in order to carry out the purposes of his Father.

Scriptural indications, including some exchange of roles, tend to indicate that he may have been Michael the Archangel, a title whihc of it's own tends to indicate that it was indeed Michael who came down from heaven.

The scripture at John 1:14, as well as John 1:18, indicates that the one who became Christ was created as "the beginning of his way" by his Father (Proverbs 8:22) and was the only being created by God alone, who thereafter assisted in the creation of everything else, (Proverbs 8:30,31; John 1:3;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

You notice that verse clearly says that he was the "image of the invisible God" not God himself. It also calls him the "firstborn of all creation" whihc fits in perfectly with him being God's only begotten son.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him,
but the world did not know him.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Colossians 1:16 because by means of him+ all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things .

There is so much in scripture that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that the one who became Christ was his spirit son, created by him and then helping in creating everything else, who came to earth to occupy a perfect human body died, and was resurrected, in his previous spirit state after 3 days in the grave. OK parts of three days, but three separate days, as Jews at the time measured them, none the less.
Lets look at the three kings:
They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience."

Yes, let's look at them shall we.

1) They are actually Magi, Astrologers, not kings at al, and as Astrologers they were of a group despised by God.

2) They were led by the star, not straight to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem whihc alerted Herod to a rival, and caused children from birth to two years old to be killed.

The two statements above indicate that they were guided not by God, but by Satan.

3) Judging by the above their visit was approximately a year after Christ's birth, and according to scripture the family had by that time moved into a house.

4) Scripture gives us no indication as to how many there were. The number three has been adopted because of the number of gifts recorded, but it is unlikely that any would only have brought one gift.

All the above makes a complete nonsense of the Nativity plays performed at that pagan festival, Christmas.

They felt they were greeting a future king, it had nothing to do with worship but simply the reverence due to a king., and the symbolism of the gifts fits that also, and also adds weight to the idea that they would each have brought some of all the three gifts.

As I say. No way would God have arranged that though he already knew it was going to happen and had prophesied the deaths of all those children, murdered in order to prevent a rival for the throne Herod sat on and no doubt hoped would be passed down to his descendants.

That was so self evidently the work of Satan, as has the distortion of the story itself.

Come to that as has the distortion of scripture and the spirit behind people like yourself who support and spread such lies.

Then perhaps this might help you understand mad.

Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man

Worship is a word, like so many in English, with many meanings. He was not worshipped at any time, in the sense we should worship his Father, whom he worshipped. (John 20:17)
What about Prayer to Jesus would that be the act of a heretic to?
Acts7:59 While they were stoning Stephen, he prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60 Then he knelt down and cried out in a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he died.[k]

Well, Jesus is the "intermediary between God and man" so technically the prayer should be to his Father, Jehovah, and through Christ. So if you want to be Pharisaical about it, yes, but I doubt either God or Christ would take a sincere and well intentioned prayer to his son amiss. At least it would be recognising the son's part ion all this.

On top of that, as the judging is left to Christ so in the case of one such as Stephen to seek Jesus blessing is not inappropriate.

God doesn't expect us tog et everything right, he knows that is beyond us, especially in our current imperfect state, so he does make some allowance for well intentioned error.
You keep changing these unchangeable godly rules to suit whatever is presented. You realise that that makes you a liar. If god makes the rules you don't get to change them. God says you can only pray to god.
And you are much higher on gods list than a martyr because you haven't prayed to Jesus.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 10:06:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Running out of space, so here read this.


Russell taught that we should worship Jesus and the initial Watchtower Charter's specified that establishment of the Watchtower Society was to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus. Yet since the 1950's, worshipping Jesus became regarded as wrongful idolatry.

Russell promoted the worship of Jesus and prayer to him because he is our God.

"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...." Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3

"In one respect many of Christendom could learn numerous important lessons from these wise Gentiles....They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience." Zion's Watch Tower 1906 Jan 1 p.15

"Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man." Zion's Watch Tower 1898 Jul 15 p.216
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 10:30:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 10:06:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Running out of space, so here read this.


Russell taught that we should worship Jesus and the initial Watchtower Charter's specified that establishment of the Watchtower Society was to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus. Yet since the 1950's, worshipping Jesus became regarded as wrongful idolatry.

Russell promoted the worship of Jesus and prayer to him because he is our God.

"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...." Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3



"In one respect many of Christendom could learn numerous important lessons from these wise Gentiles....They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience." Zion's Watch Tower 1906 Jan 1 p.15


"Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man." Zion's Watch Tower 1898 Jul 15 p.216

That may or may not be true, but I can guarantee he did not use the word worship in the sense that you want to think he did. No doubt he was using it in the sense in whihc we say "The Worshipful Lord Mayor of London".

And even if he had, so what? No-one denies that they made mistakes, but past is past. Simple as.

No, most likely just the understanding of the usage of the word worship which has many meanings and many levels of meaning within each one.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 10:36:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 10:04:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
No, I'm not changing anything God sets the rules, but he is not absolutely rigid about any of them. He always applies his rules with a balance of Justice and Mercy.

People cannot tell God what he will or will not do, nor can they tell him who he should, or should not, forgive. The choice is entirely his, or his sons, and he only expects us to be doing our utmost, so if we slip up, then as long as we get back up again he will overlook the slip.

In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

People take too much in the way of judgement on themselves, and, for instance find it impossible to forgive people their past mistakes even if they have learned their lesson and moved on.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 10:40:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 10:36:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:04:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
No, I'm not changing anything God sets the rules, but he is not absolutely rigid about any of them. He always applies his rules with a balance of Justice and Mercy.

People cannot tell God what he will or will not do, nor can they tell him who he should, or should not, forgive. The choice is entirely his, or his sons, and he only expects us to be doing our utmost, so if we slip up, then as long as we get back up again he will overlook the slip.

In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

People take too much in the way of judgement on themselves, and, for instance find it impossible to forgive people their past mistakes even if they have learned their lesson and moved on.
The WTBS makes no rules mad, they don't tell god! God tells them the rules, have you forgotten? These are not the rules of men they are god's divine RULES, you are confused mad. Jehovian doctrine is god's doctrine.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 11:15:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 10:40:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:36:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:04:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
No, I'm not changing anything God sets the rules, but he is not absolutely rigid about any of them. He always applies his rules with a balance of Justice and Mercy.

People cannot tell God what he will or will not do, nor can they tell him who he should, or should not, forgive. The choice is entirely his, or his sons, and he only expects us to be doing our utmost, so if we slip up, then as long as we get back up again he will overlook the slip.

In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

People take too much in the way of judgement on themselves, and, for instance find it impossible to forgive people their past mistakes even if they have learned their lesson and moved on.
The WTBS makes no rules mad, they don't tell god! God tells them the rules, have you forgotten? These are not the rules of men they are god's divine RULES, you are confused mad. Jehovian doctrine is god's doctrine.

Precisely that. Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine comes from God yes, That is what I have said. It is a combination of scripture and holy spirit.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 11:25:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 11:15:33 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:40:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:36:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:04:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
No, I'm not changing anything God sets the rules, but he is not absolutely rigid about any of them. He always applies his rules with a balance of Justice and Mercy.

People cannot tell God what he will or will not do, nor can they tell him who he should, or should not, forgive. The choice is entirely his, or his sons, and he only expects us to be doing our utmost, so if we slip up, then as long as we get back up again he will overlook the slip.

In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

People take too much in the way of judgement on themselves, and, for instance find it impossible to forgive people their past mistakes even if they have learned their lesson and moved on.
The WTBS makes no rules mad, they don't tell god! God tells them the rules, have you forgotten? These are not the rules of men they are god's divine RULES, you are confused mad. Jehovian doctrine is god's doctrine.

Precisely that. Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine comes from God yes, That is what I have said. It is a combination of scripture and holy spirit.

Then this is your defiance of god's word as provided by the WTBS
In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

Look>>>

The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of any of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower.

What is published comes directly from jehovah.
If you claim that what they have declared is false then you are Apostate.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 12:16:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 11:25:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 11:15:33 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:40:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:36:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:04:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
No, I'm not changing anything God sets the rules, but he is not absolutely rigid about any of them. He always applies his rules with a balance of Justice and Mercy.

People cannot tell God what he will or will not do, nor can they tell him who he should, or should not, forgive. The choice is entirely his, or his sons, and he only expects us to be doing our utmost, so if we slip up, then as long as we get back up again he will overlook the slip.

In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

People take too much in the way of judgement on themselves, and, for instance find it impossible to forgive people their past mistakes even if they have learned their lesson and moved on.
The WTBS makes no rules mad, they don't tell god! God tells them the rules, have you forgotten? These are not the rules of men they are god's divine RULES, you are confused mad. Jehovian doctrine is god's doctrine.

Precisely that. Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine comes from God yes, That is what I have said. It is a combination of scripture and holy spirit.

Then this is your defiance of god's word as provided by the WTBS
In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

Look>>>

The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of any of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower.

What is published comes directly from jehovah.
If you claim that what they have declared is false then you are Apostate.

What is published in the publications comes from scripture, whihc comes from God, however despite holy spirit guidance, neither they nor I have ever claimed that they have not made mistakes.

Nothing comes directly from Jehovah because he has not dealt directly with mankind for the last 6,000 years or so. He has dealt with us through his son.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 12:30:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 12:16:31 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 11:25:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 11:15:33 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:40:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:36:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:04:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
No, I'm not changing anything God sets the rules, but he is not absolutely rigid about any of them. He always applies his rules with a balance of Justice and Mercy.

People cannot tell God what he will or will not do, nor can they tell him who he should, or should not, forgive. The choice is entirely his, or his sons, and he only expects us to be doing our utmost, so if we slip up, then as long as we get back up again he will overlook the slip.

In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

People take too much in the way of judgement on themselves, and, for instance find it impossible to forgive people their past mistakes even if they have learned their lesson and moved on.
The WTBS makes no rules mad, they don't tell god! God tells them the rules, have you forgotten? These are not the rules of men they are god's divine RULES, you are confused mad. Jehovian doctrine is god's doctrine.

Precisely that. Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine comes from God yes, That is what I have said. It is a combination of scripture and holy spirit.

Then this is your defiance of god's word as provided by the WTBS
In the resurrection I have no doubt at all that there will be many that aren't expected, and that some of them won't expect to see us either.

Look>>>

The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of any of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower.

What is published comes directly from jehovah.
If you claim that what they have declared is false then you are Apostate.

What is published in the publications comes from scripture, whihc comes from God, however despite holy spirit guidance, neither they nor I have ever claimed that they have not made mistakes.

Nothing comes directly from Jehovah because he has not dealt directly with mankind for the last 6,000 years or so. He has dealt with us through his son.

Can't you read? The watchtower publications do not come from man.
The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of any of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower.
It is not mans mistakes it is god's mistake.
Or the WTBS are liars.
They are the only two options.
No there is the terminal stupidity of jehovians that may account for it.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 1:02:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Everyone at some point should download a copy of "Millions Now Living Will Never Die", originally published in 1920, but based upon talks given in 1918. Their prophetic failures did not end at 1914: they actually just began there. For six or seven years, they parasitized the country with their prophetic musings. In fact, their major cause d'etre from 1918 - 1926 was this theme.

They told mothers who lost their boys in WW1 not to grieve: the boys would be back in 1925!

They told everyone that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would likewise be back in 1925:

"No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." (Millions Now Living ... , 1920, 224, 226)

And this man was led by "holy spirit"!

One cannot doubt that they are sincerely deluded. Nothing happened in 1925 - just like nothing happened in 1914, and I cannot see how they say that it did.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 1:54:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 1:02:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
Everyone at some point should download a copy of "Millions Now Living Will Never Die", originally published in 1920, but based upon talks given in 1918. Their prophetic failures did not end at 1914: they actually just began there. For six or seven years, they parasitized the country with their prophetic musings. In fact, their major cause d'etre from 1918 - 1926 was this theme.

They told mothers who lost their boys in WW1 not to grieve: the boys would be back in 1925!

They told everyone that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would likewise be back in 1925:

"No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." (Millions Now Living ... , 1920, 224, 226)

And this man was led by "holy spirit"!

One cannot doubt that they are sincerely deluded. Nothing happened in 1925 - just like nothing happened in 1914, and I cannot see how they say that it did.

You cannot down load it, but even if you could , so what. No-one denies they made mistakes, so what? as long as they learned from them.

Who is there who doesn't make mistakes? Even Peter made a massive mistake, so important that Paul had to tell him off face to face, and yet he was forgiven, Why would God therefore not forgive the mistakes of the JWs?

The only way you can make a mistake worse than Peter's is to teach the trinity.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 1:56:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 1:02:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
Everyone at some point should download a copy of "Millions Now Living Will Never Die", originally published in 1920, but based upon talks given in 1918. Their prophetic failures did not end at 1914: they actually just began there. For six or seven years, they parasitized the country with their prophetic musings. In fact, their major cause d'etre from 1918 - 1926 was this theme.

They told mothers who lost their boys in WW1 not to grieve: the boys would be back in 1925!

They told everyone that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would likewise be back in 1925:

"No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." (Millions Now Living ... , 1920, 224, 226)

And this man was led by "holy spirit"!

One cannot doubt that they are sincerely deluded. Nothing happened in 1925 - just like nothing happened in 1914, and I cannot see how they say that it did.

1914 did exactly what it said on the tin. It was the subsequent events that the brothers expected to follow rapidly on that didn't happen, but they will, in God's time not ours.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 2:07:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 1:54:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 1:02:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
Everyone at some point should download a copy of "Millions Now Living Will Never Die", originally published in 1920, but based upon talks given in 1918. Their prophetic failures did not end at 1914: they actually just began there. For six or seven years, they parasitized the country with their prophetic musings. In fact, their major cause d'etre from 1918 - 1926 was this theme.

They told mothers who lost their boys in WW1 not to grieve: the boys would be back in 1925!

They told everyone that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would likewise be back in 1925:

"No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." (Millions Now Living ... , 1920, 224, 226)

And this man was led by "holy spirit"!

One cannot doubt that they are sincerely deluded. Nothing happened in 1925 - just like nothing happened in 1914, and I cannot see how they say that it did.

You cannot down load it, but even if you could , so what. No-one denies they made mistakes, so what? as long as they learned from them.

Who is there who doesn't make mistakes? Even Peter made a massive mistake, so important that Paul had to tell him off face to face, and yet he was forgiven, Why would God therefore not forgive the mistakes of the JWs?

The only way you can make a mistake worse than Peter's is to teach the trinity.

The Romans who believed in false gods made Peter look like he preached this religious heresy. Peter was a saint who knew about how the earthen elements will melt in the "Last Day". He never talked about a triune god because his created INVISIBLE existence was the "Voice of God", just like all the prophets and other saints were.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 2:08:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "1914 did exactly what it said on the tin."

Anna: I guarantee you that all that's left of the 1914 nonsense is the intangible. "Jesus turned His attention towards earth." That's about all you have left. Everything else about 1914, 1916, and 1925 was dropped, with only that mansion out in San Diego remaining as a monument to the credulity of the people who financed it. It's still out there awaiting the occupancy of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Exactly what happened, pray tell, in 1914 or 1925 that hasn't happened in similar manner in many other decades?

Answer: Not a thing. It was - and is - based upon a misinterpretation and miscalculation of prophesies.

*****

MCB: "It was the subsequent events that the brothers expected to follow rapidly on that didn't happen, but they will, in God's time not ours."

Anna: No, they won't happen at all. This ain't gonna happen:

"No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." (Millions Now Living ... , 1920, 224, 226)

That looks more like the religious ranting of a lunatic. What's so sad is that ignorant people believed it - just as the still believe all the "end times" nonsense of the WatchTower. With them, the end of the world is always just around the corner.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 2:24:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 2:08:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "1914 did exactly what it said on the tin."

Anna: I guarantee you that all that's left of the 1914 nonsense is the intangible. "Jesus turned His attention towards earth." That's about all you have left. Everything else about 1914, 1916, and 1925 was dropped, with only that mansion out in San Diego remaining as a monument to the credulity of the people who financed it. It's still out there awaiting the occupancy of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Exactly what happened, pray tell, in 1914 or 1925 that hasn't happened in similar manner in many other decades?

Answer: Not a thing. It was - and is - based upon a misinterpretation and miscalculation of prophesies.

*****

MCB: "It was the subsequent events that the brothers expected to follow rapidly on that didn't happen, but they will, in God's time not ours."

Anna: No, they won't happen at all. This ain't gonna happen:

"No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." (Millions Now Living ... , 1920, 224, 226)

That looks more like the religious ranting of a lunatic. What's so sad is that ignorant people believed it - just as the still believe all the "end times" nonsense of the WatchTower. With them, the end of the world is always just around the corner.

: "No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." (Millions Now Living ... , 1920, 224, 226)

This false interpretation was attempted by a man who was totally clueless to who God is and His eternal plan for His creation.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 2:46:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 2:08:51 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "1914 did exactly what it said on the tin."

Anna: I guarantee you that all that's left of the 1914 nonsense is the intangible. "Jesus turned His attention towards earth." That's about all you have left. Everything else about 1914, 1916, and 1925 was dropped, with only that mansion out in San Diego remaining as a monument to the credulity of the people who financed it. It's still out there awaiting the occupancy of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Exactly what happened, pray tell, in 1914 or 1925 that hasn't happened in similar manner in many other decades?

Answer: Not a thing. It was - and is - based upon a misinterpretation and miscalculation of prophesies.

*****

MCB: "It was the subsequent events that the brothers expected to follow rapidly on that didn't happen, but they will, in God's time not ours."

Anna: No, they won't happen at all. This ain't gonna happen:

"No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." (Millions Now Living ... , 1920, 224, 226)

That looks more like the religious ranting of a lunatic. What's so sad is that ignorant people believed it - just as the still believe all the "end times" nonsense of the WatchTower. With them, the end of the world is always just around the corner.

1914 was, and is, in prophecy all about Christ taking up his throne in heaven having cast Satan down to the vicinity of the earth,

That happened. Scriptural and historical evidence both support it.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 2:57:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "1914 was, and is, in prophecy all about Christ taking up his throne in heaven having cast Satan down to the vicinity of the earth,"

Anna: As I said, all that's left of the 1914 fiasco is the intangible. Jesus was never scheduled to take up any throne in 1914. It's all a perversion of prophesy: the perversion of the intent and a miscalculation of dates. Nor was Satan "cast down" in 1914. Another intangible. All the rest of the 1914 stuff went by the wayside, and Witnesses (they ones that didn't abandon the group) were left with was some intangibles.

The same goes for 1925 - yet they had "proof positive", or so they claimed. 1925 was a big deal back then. In fact, one can hardly read anything written from 1918 - and especially from 1920 - forward to 1925 without a building anticipation. They had done their calculations, again. They were seeking something to get people's minds off of the 1914 mess. But nothing happened in 1925, either.

By the way, I never see you mention 1925 - although for years it was the centerpoint of WatchTower teaching. Big things were gonna happen - and they had calculated it, and come up with proof positive. What happened? As far as I can tell, only one thing happened in 1925: disappointment that their calculations were, once again, all wrong. So why don't YOU tell us what happened in 1925?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 3:16:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 2:57:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "1914 was, and is, in prophecy all about Christ taking up his throne in heaven having cast Satan down to the vicinity of the earth,"

Anna: As I said, all that's left of the 1914 fiasco is the intangible. Jesus was never scheduled to take up any throne in 1914. It's all a perversion of prophesy: the perversion of the intent and a miscalculation of dates. Nor was Satan "cast down" in 1914. Another intangible. All the rest of the 1914 stuff went by the wayside, and Witnesses (they ones that didn't abandon the group) were left with was some intangibles.

The same goes for 1925 - yet they had "proof positive", or so they claimed. 1925 was a big deal back then. In fact, one can hardly read anything written from 1918 - and especially from 1920 - forward to 1925 without a building anticipation. They had done their calculations, again. They were seeking something to get people's minds off of the 1914 mess. But nothing happened in 1925, either.

By the way, I never see you mention 1925 - although for years it was the centerpoint of WatchTower teaching. Big things were gonna happen - and they had calculated it, and come up with proof positive. What happened? As far as I can tell, only one thing happened in 1925: disappointment that their calculations were, once again, all wrong. So why don't YOU tell us what happened in 1925?

Nope, it is real, it is scriptural, and fits far, far better into the overall theme of scripture than your beliefs do. I leave perverting scripture to you trinitarians.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/30/2013 4:02:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The post stands, because MCB's reply amounts to nothing:

As I said, all that's left of the 1914 fiasco is the intangible. Jesus was never scheduled to take up any throne in 1914. It's all a perversion of prophesy: the perversion of the intent and a miscalculation of dates. Nor was Satan "cast down" in 1914. Another intangible. All the rest of the 1914 stuff went by the wayside, and Witnesses (they ones that didn't abandon the group) were left with was some intangibles.

The same goes for 1925 - yet they had "proof positive", or so they claimed. 1925 was a big deal back then. In fact, one can hardly read anything written from 1918 - and especially from 1920 - forward to 1925 without a building anticipation. They had done their calculations, again. They were seeking something to get people's minds off of the 1914 mess. But nothing happened in 1925, either.

By the way, I never see you mention 1925 - although for years it was the centerpoint of WatchTower teaching. Big things were gonna happen - and they had calculated it, and come up with proof positive. What happened? As far as I can tell, only one thing happened in 1925: disappointment that their calculations were, once again, all wrong. So why don't YOU tell us what happened in 1925?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/31/2013 5:28:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 4:02:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
The post stands, because MCB's reply amounts to nothing:

As I said, all that's left of the 1914 fiasco is the intangible. Jesus was never scheduled to take up any throne in 1914. It's all a perversion of prophesy: the perversion of the intent and a miscalculation of dates. Nor was Satan "cast down" in 1914. Another intangible. All the rest of the 1914 stuff went by the wayside, and Witnesses (they ones that didn't abandon the group) were left with was some intangibles.

The same goes for 1925 - yet they had "proof positive", or so they claimed. 1925 was a big deal back then. In fact, one can hardly read anything written from 1918 - and especially from 1920 - forward to 1925 without a building anticipation. They had done their calculations, again. They were seeking something to get people's minds off of the 1914 mess. But nothing happened in 1925, either.

By the way, I never see you mention 1925 - although for years it was the centerpoint of WatchTower teaching. Big things were gonna happen - and they had calculated it, and come up with proof positive. What happened? As far as I can tell, only one thing happened in 1925: disappointment that their calculations were, once again, all wrong. So why don't YOU tell us what happened in 1925?

In your eyes, but fortunately not in God's.

No-one can teach you anything you don;t want to now, and you don;t want to know the truth because it doesn't suit you.

And please don;t say you do because I have given you the truth many times, and yo choose to reject it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/31/2013 5:57:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/31/2013 5:28:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:02:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
The post stands, because MCB's reply amounts to nothing:

As I said, all that's left of the 1914 fiasco is the intangible. Jesus was never scheduled to take up any throne in 1914. It's all a perversion of prophesy: the perversion of the intent and a miscalculation of dates. Nor was Satan "cast down" in 1914. Another intangible. All the rest of the 1914 stuff went by the wayside, and Witnesses (they ones that didn't abandon the group) were left with was some intangibles.

The same goes for 1925 - yet they had "proof positive", or so they claimed. 1925 was a big deal back then. In fact, one can hardly read anything written from 1918 - and especially from 1920 - forward to 1925 without a building anticipation. They had done their calculations, again. They were seeking something to get people's minds off of the 1914 mess. But nothing happened in 1925, either.

By the way, I never see you mention 1925 - although for years it was the centerpoint of WatchTower teaching. Big things were gonna happen - and they had calculated it, and come up with proof positive. What happened? As far as I can tell, only one thing happened in 1925: disappointment that their calculations were, once again, all wrong. So why don't YOU tell us what happened in 1925?

In your eyes, but fortunately not in God's.

No-one can teach you anything you don;t want to now, and you don;t want to know the truth because it doesn't suit you.

And please don;t say you do because I have given you the truth many times, and yo choose to reject it.

Still no mention of 1925 or the 1940's or 1975 old boy, much less any defence of such?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin