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Reasons I don't adhere into Christianity

johnlubba
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9/3/2013 1:31:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Firstly it clearly say's that there is only one mediator between man and God, and that mediator is Jesus who is himself a human....Secondly the degradation towards women is unwarranted and obviously charged by an egotistical bias human, namely Timothy....

1 Timothy 2 (New International Version)

2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people" 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle"I am telling the truth, I am not lying"and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing"if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 1:38:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:31:10 PM, johnlubba wrote:
Firstly it clearly say's that there is only one mediator between man and God, and that mediator is Jesus who is himself a human....Secondly the degradation towards women is unwarranted and obviously charged by an egotistical bias human, namely Timothy....



1 Timothy 2 (New International Version)

2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people" 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle"I am telling the truth, I am not lying"and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing"if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Jesus was the Word of God in the flesh. He was God in the flesh. Nothing there degrades women in anyway.
johnlubba
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9/3/2013 1:43:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I disagree, I find this highly offensive towards women....

A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. Yeah, nothing degrading there

12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[ Yep, nothing degrading here either..

she must be quiet........ Hold on I just need to take my rose tinted glasses off.

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. ....Yeah women are terrible they should just shut the hell up.

Timothy rocks......cough cough.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 1:49:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:43:27 PM, johnlubba wrote:
I disagree, I find this highly offensive towards women....


A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. Yeah, nothing degrading there

No, it is not.

12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[ Yep, nothing degrading here either..

Nope nothing. This type thinking is why many men today are not really manly and women must do for themselves instead of men doing for them.

she must be quiet........ Hold on I just need to take my rose tinted glasses off.

You wear rose tinted glasses? You should keep them off.

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

....Yeah women are terrible they should just shut the hell up.

Where does it claim women is terrible? That is your addition and a bad one at that. Women are also uplifted in the Bible but just ignore that. A man represents Christ who is the head and women the church who is Christ's bride. The church is subject to being mislead and are weaker than the head which is Christ. The man suppose to be strong and the leader and the woman the care giver and be subjective as the church should to Christ.

Timothy rocks......cough cough.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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9/3/2013 2:03:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:49:55 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:43:27 PM, johnlubba wrote:
I disagree, I find this highly offensive towards women....


A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. Yeah, nothing degrading there

No, it is not.

12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[ Yep, nothing degrading here either..

Nope nothing. This type thinking is why many men today are not really manly and women must do for themselves instead of men doing for them.

she must be quiet........ Hold on I just need to take my rose tinted glasses off.

You wear rose tinted glasses? You should keep them off.

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

....Yeah women are terrible they should just shut the hell up.

Where does it claim women is terrible? That is your addition and a bad one at that. Women are also uplifted in the Bible but just ignore that. A man represents Christ who is the head and women the church who is Christ's bride. The church is subject to being mislead and are weaker than the head which is Christ. The man suppose to be strong and the leader and the woman the care giver and be subjective as the church should to Christ.

Timothy rocks......cough cough.

The only one doing the ignoring here is you buddy, Maybe he isn't implying that women are terrible but that is how it come across, You are nit picking and only looking at what you want to see.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man... This a foolish and terrible statement.....I suppose all female teachers should be declared redundant when trying to convey their knowledge towards men....... They should be quiet...After al it's was Eve who was deceived and not Adam,. Man this is such a stupid statement it doesn't require much thought to notice it. But we can just skip that.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 2:10:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 2:03:24 PM, johnlubba wrote:

The only one doing the ignoring here is you buddy,

Have not ignored one thing but I have mention what you have.

Maybe he isn't implying that women are terrible

Exactly or He would have no created them. They have much purpose, just not what you want it to be.

but that is how it come across, You are nit picking and only looking at what you want to see.

It seems you are the one nit picking and ignore the good and purpose the Bible holds for women but instead just what you consider bad.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man... This a foolish and terrible statement

Really? Why?

.....I suppose all female teachers should be declared redundant when trying to convey their knowledge towards men

This entire verse describes the church and in the church, for one. It also tells the woman to discuss in the home with the man and not in public trying to be over a man.

....... They should be quiet...After al it's was Eve who was deceived and not Adam,. Man this is such a stupid statement it doesn't require much thought to notice it. But we can just skip that.

Who was deceived? The woman. The man listened to His wife which you seem to hint the Bible says not to do.
johnlubba
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9/3/2013 2:29:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 2:10:51 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:03:24 PM, johnlubba wrote:

The only one doing the ignoring here is you buddy,

Have not ignored one thing but I have mention what you have.

Maybe he isn't implying that women are terrible

Exactly or He would have no created them. They have much purpose, just not what you want it to be.

but that is how it come across, You are nit picking and only looking at what you want to see.

It seems you are the one nit picking and ignore the good and purpose the Bible holds for women but instead just what you consider bad.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man... This a foolish and terrible statement

Really? Why?

.....I suppose all female teachers should be declared redundant when trying to convey their knowledge towards men

This entire verse describes the church and in the church, for one. It also tells the woman to discuss in the home with the man and not in public trying to be over a man.

....... They should be quiet...After al it's was Eve who was deceived and not Adam,. Man this is such a stupid statement it doesn't require much thought to notice it. But we can just skip that.

Who was deceived? The woman. The man listened to His wife which you seem to hint the Bible says not to do.

A metaphorical story in the Bible is not enough to put out an order that women should have to remain silent and not be able to teach a man, it's not reality. it's absurd. Women are obviously teachers of men....What about mothers, what about school teachers, what about those who do actually teach men.....This isn't permitted in your book.

But here we are seeing you argue the opposite. The Bible is right and reality is wrong.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 2:34:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 2:29:52 PM, johnlubba wrote:

A metaphorical story in the Bible is not enough to put out an order that women should have to remain silent and not be able to teach a man, it's not reality. it's absurd. Women are obviously teachers of men....What about mothers, what about school teachers, what about those who do actually teach men.....This isn't permitted in your book.

But here we are seeing you argue the opposite. The Bible is right and reality is wrong.

No, I have argued and you have ignored that these verses spoke of Biblical and religious things. Not school, not child raising, not social norms, and not household life. The Bible is a religious book for the Church of God and God commands that a woman is not to teach over the man on religious things. It does not even say that women cannot have women groups and teach in them. So, basically you read far to much into what is written and try to take religious commands and put them outside of it.
johnlubba
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9/3/2013 2:43:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 2:34:57 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:29:52 PM, johnlubba wrote:

A metaphorical story in the Bible is not enough to put out an order that women should have to remain silent and not be able to teach a man, it's not reality. it's absurd. Women are obviously teachers of men....What about mothers, what about school teachers, what about those who do actually teach men.....This isn't permitted in your book.

But here we are seeing you argue the opposite. The Bible is right and reality is wrong.


No, I have argued and you have ignored that these verses spoke of Biblical and religious things. Not school, not child raising, not social norms, and not household life. The Bible is a religious book for the Church of God and God commands that a woman is not to teach over the man on religious things. It does not even say that women cannot have women groups and teach in them. So, basically you read far to much into what is written and try to take religious commands and put them outside of it.

So you have interpreted it as, women are not to have authority over man and should not be allowed to teach a man in religious matters. Now I am more convinced that you make it up as you go along, first you charge me with making wild accusations about home life, or school teaching, or social norms, then you fabricate your own opinion, which you think fits nicely with your ideology,

Only if I were to accept your interpretation as valid, it is still a ridiculous claim that women should be quite under a man concerning religious matters. One of the best philosophers I have ever met is a woman. Don't be such a sexist and get back to reality.
johnlubba
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9/3/2013 2:46:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Definition of sexist....

Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.

2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

End of Story.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 3:00:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 2:43:06 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:34:57 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:29:52 PM, johnlubba wrote:

A metaphorical story in the Bible is not enough to put out an order that women should have to remain silent and not be able to teach a man, it's not reality. it's absurd. Women are obviously teachers of men....What about mothers, what about school teachers, what about those who do actually teach men.....This isn't permitted in your book.

But here we are seeing you argue the opposite. The Bible is right and reality is wrong.



No, I have argued and you have ignored that these verses spoke of Biblical and religious things. Not school, not child raising, not social norms, and not household life. The Bible is a religious book for the Church of God and God commands that a woman is not to teach over the man on religious things. It does not even say that women cannot have women groups and teach in them. So, basically you read far to much into what is written and try to take religious commands and put them outside of it.

So you have interpreted it as, women are not to have authority over man and should not be allowed to teach a man in religious matters. Now I am more convinced that you make it up as you go along, first you charge me with making wild accusations about home life, or school teaching, or social norms, then you fabricate your own opinion, which you think fits nicely with your ideology,

Only if I were to accept your interpretation as valid, it is still a ridiculous claim that women should be quite under a man concerning religious matters. One of the best philosophers I have ever met is a woman. Don't be such a sexist and get back to reality.

It is now documented that you only read and respond to what you want. I have maintained in this discussion that the verses you posted are in a religious frame and are for in the church. The entire chapter reflects this so I do not have to make anything up as I go along. It has been that way for thousands of years, written and documented. You simply only want to read and believe what you want. You hate the Bible, God, and Christianity so you ignore what shows you incorrect and take a few verses and run with them instead of reading the whole context itself. Well leads read that chapter in whole:

Notice Timothy is commanding both men and women here and this speaks in the church and out of it.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Then He turns to women claiming to be Godly:

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.11 Let the woman learn(learn what? Godliness, which is religious things) in silence with all subjection.12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

So, two points here:
1) This speaks only to women trying to be Godly-religious.
2) They need to learn Godliness in silence and are not to teach over the man.

Women who teach children are not teaching over men. Women teaching women are not teaching over men.

Proverbs 31:10 An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels.

Proverbs 11:16 A gracious woman gets honor

Genesis 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."

Proverbs 31:26 She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.

Ephesians 5:22-23, 33 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior" However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Proverbs 14:1 The wisest of women builds her house

I stand by what I have said and so does the Bible. You can stay ignorant and confused believing you know what it is your are talking about.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/3/2013 4:48:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:31:10 PM, johnlubba wrote:
Firstly it clearly say's that there is only one mediator between man and God, and that mediator is Jesus who is himself a human....Secondly the degradation towards women is unwarranted and obviously charged by an egotistical bias human, namely Timothy....



1 Timothy 2 (New International Version)

2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people" 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle"I am telling the truth, I am not lying"and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing"if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

The Romans made Timothy a believer in God's world delusion, just like they made all their Christians believe they were saints.

God was quite clever when He made the Romans kill His saints and start the false religion of Christianity with their false new testament.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/3/2013 4:49:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 3:00:09 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:43:06 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:34:57 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:29:52 PM, johnlubba wrote:

A metaphorical story in the Bible is not enough to put out an order that women should have to remain silent and not be able to teach a man, it's not reality. it's absurd. Women are obviously teachers of men....What about mothers, what about school teachers, what about those who do actually teach men.....This isn't permitted in your book.

But here we are seeing you argue the opposite. The Bible is right and reality is wrong.



No, I have argued and you have ignored that these verses spoke of Biblical and religious things. Not school, not child raising, not social norms, and not household life. The Bible is a religious book for the Church of God and God commands that a woman is not to teach over the man on religious things. It does not even say that women cannot have women groups and teach in them. So, basically you read far to much into what is written and try to take religious commands and put them outside of it.

So you have interpreted it as, women are not to have authority over man and should not be allowed to teach a man in religious matters. Now I am more convinced that you make it up as you go along, first you charge me with making wild accusations about home life, or school teaching, or social norms, then you fabricate your own opinion, which you think fits nicely with your ideology,

Only if I were to accept your interpretation as valid, it is still a ridiculous claim that women should be quite under a man concerning religious matters. One of the best philosophers I have ever met is a woman. Don't be such a sexist and get back to reality.

It is now documented that you only read and respond to what you want. I have maintained in this discussion that the verses you posted are in a religious frame and are for in the church. The entire chapter reflects this so I do not have to make anything up as I go along. It has been that way for thousands of years, written and documented. You simply only want to read and believe what you want. You hate the Bible, God, and Christianity so you ignore what shows you incorrect and take a few verses and run with them instead of reading the whole context itself. Well leads read that chapter in whole:

Notice Timothy is commanding both men and women here and this speaks in the church and out of it.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Then He turns to women claiming to be Godly:

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.11 Let the woman learn(learn what? Godliness, which is religious things) in silence with all subjection.12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

So, two points here:
1) This speaks only to women trying to be Godly-religious.
2) They need to learn Godliness in silence and are not to teach over the man.

Women who teach children are not teaching over men. Women teaching women are not teaching over men.

Proverbs 31:10 An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels.

Proverbs 11:16 A gracious woman gets honor

Genesis 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."

Proverbs 31:26 She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.

Ephesians 5:22-23, 33 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior" However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Proverbs 14:1 The wisest of women builds her house

I stand by what I have said and so does the Bible. You can stay ignorant and confused believing you know what it is your are talking about.

Do you actually believe the Roman new testament with all their religious ideas they mixed with some of the ideas they stole from the saints they killed?
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 4:52:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 4:49:56 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Do you actually believe the Roman new testament with all their religious ideas they mixed with some of the ideas they stole from the saints they killed?

Learn some history but wait you should know it with God guiding you but it seems not.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/3/2013 4:59:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 4:52:26 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 4:49:56 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Do you actually believe the Roman new testament with all their religious ideas they mixed with some of the ideas they stole from the saints they killed?

Learn some history but wait you should know it with God guiding you but it seems not.

Do you believe the 9/11 government report is the Truth?

Why would you believe history as the Truth when selfish sinners were the ones who wrote the history. It was selfish sinners who wrote the new testament by adding all their religious ideas with a few ideas that they stole from the saints they killed.

Every single saint preached the same exact gospel, which is the Voice of God where believers hear the Truth spoken to them.

The Romans killed these saints and made their own laws to deceive their Christians with. The new testament they wrote made sure that on one would ever understand what a true saint is and the knowledge of God we have.

They didn't realize that one last saint would be made by God in the last days to reveal all the Roman and Jewish lies that they added to the scriptures. I know more than all of Christianity combined so you better watch out what you say around our Creator. He knows a lot about history.
bornofgod
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9/3/2013 5:02:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 4:53:00 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 4:48:58 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Timothy didn't write 1 Timothy.

Correct, Paul did.

No he didn't. The Vatican had their religious writers write the new testament books according to the way they needed to deceive all their new Christians. By adding all their religious ideas to a few ideas that the true saints wrote in their writings, they were able to keep their Christians from understanding what a true saint is and the invisible knowledge of God they possessed.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 5:07:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 4:59:21 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2013 4:52:26 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 4:49:56 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Do you actually believe the Roman new testament with all their religious ideas they mixed with some of the ideas they stole from the saints they killed?

Learn some history but wait you should know it with God guiding you but it seems not.

Do you believe the 9/11 government report is the Truth?

No

Why would you believe history as the Truth when selfish sinners were the ones who wrote the history.

I do not believe most history in general.

It was selfish sinners who wrote the new testament

No, it was servants of God as well as the Old Testament. By your account we cannot believe anything written in the Bible.

by adding all their religious ideas with a few ideas that they stole from the saints they killed.

No. The saints wrote it and maintained it and actual history reports that truth. History shows that sects outside the RCC and Rome keep the texts intact which we call the Antioch text.

Every single saint preached the same exact gospel, which is the Voice of God where believers hear the Truth spoken to them.

I know, I hear no truth in your words.

The Romans killed these saints and made their own laws to deceive their Christians with. The new testament they wrote made sure that on one would ever understand what a true saint is and the knowledge of God we have.

What utter nonsense.

They didn't realize that one last saint would be made by God in the last days to reveal all the Roman and Jewish lies that they added to the scriptures. I know more than all of Christianity combined so you better watch out what you say around our Creator. He knows a lot about history.

He knows a lot? He knows everything. He knows that you are just blabbing nonsense and trying (unsuccessfully) to lead people away from Him and to satan.
bornofgod
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9/3/2013 5:09:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 5:07:28 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 4:59:21 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2013 4:52:26 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 4:49:56 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Do you actually believe the Roman new testament with all their religious ideas they mixed with some of the ideas they stole from the saints they killed?

Learn some history but wait you should know it with God guiding you but it seems not.

Do you believe the 9/11 government report is the Truth?

No

Why would you believe history as the Truth when selfish sinners were the ones who wrote the history.

I do not believe most history in general.

It was selfish sinners who wrote the new testament

No, it was servants of God as well as the Old Testament. By your account we cannot believe anything written in the Bible.

by adding all their religious ideas with a few ideas that they stole from the saints they killed.

No. The saints wrote it and maintained it and actual history reports that truth. History shows that sects outside the RCC and Rome keep the texts intact which we call the Antioch text.

Every single saint preached the same exact gospel, which is the Voice of God where believers hear the Truth spoken to them.

I know, I hear no truth in your words.

The Romans killed these saints and made their own laws to deceive their Christians with. The new testament they wrote made sure that on one would ever understand what a true saint is and the knowledge of God we have.

What utter nonsense.

They didn't realize that one last saint would be made by God in the last days to reveal all the Roman and Jewish lies that they added to the scriptures. I know more than all of Christianity combined so you better watch out what you say around our Creator. He knows a lot about history.

He knows a lot? He knows everything. He knows that you are just blabbing nonsense and trying (unsuccessfully) to lead people away from Him and to satan.

Sinners speak from the flesh because they have no knowledge of God to understand the past, present and future.

Are you a sinner or a saint? You can only be one or the other, not both.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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9/3/2013 5:11:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
He's a saint.

Well, that was easy.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 5:12:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 5:09:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Are you a sinner or a saint? You can only be one or the other, not both.

Why are you asking? By your talk you should know!The Bible tells me I am a saint but you say I am a sinner-lost.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/3/2013 5:16:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 5:12:39 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:09:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Are you a sinner or a saint? You can only be one or the other, not both.

Why are you asking? By your talk you should know!The Bible tells me I am a saint but you say I am a sinner-lost.

The Bible can't speak my dear disobedient child, although, there might be a few Christians who believe a Bible can stand up and talk to them.

Sinners have no authority of God's to use the words that us saints and prophets testified with. You want me to show you prophecies that show this?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/3/2013 5:18:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 5:12:39 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:09:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Are you a sinner or a saint? You can only be one or the other, not both.

Why are you asking? By your talk you should know!The Bible tells me I am a saint but you say I am a sinner-lost.

How did you become a saint, since you believe you're a saint?

I know exactly how God made me a saint which took Him 28 1/2 years to do from the time He gave me faith in Him on December 8th, 1979.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 5:20:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 5:16:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:12:39 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:09:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Are you a sinner or a saint? You can only be one or the other, not both.

Why are you asking? By your talk you should know!The Bible tells me I am a saint but you say I am a sinner-lost.

The Bible can't speak

Yes it can and Yes it does. God speaks to you from His Word through the Holy Ghost and since you do not use it and condemn it we see very clear you are not of God.

my dear disobedient child, although, there might be a few Christians who believe a Bible can stand up and talk to them.

If you do not believe the Bible you have nothing to offer me.

Sinners have no authority of God's to use the words that us saints and prophets testified with.

What would that be? A whim?

You want me to show you prophecies that show this?

Yeah I do.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 5:21:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 5:18:39 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:12:39 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:09:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Are you a sinner or a saint? You can only be one or the other, not both.

Why are you asking? By your talk you should know!The Bible tells me I am a saint but you say I am a sinner-lost.

How did you become a saint, since you believe you're a saint?

By the blood of the Lamb and my testimony of Him.

I know exactly how God made me a saint which took Him 28 1/2 years to do from the time He gave me faith in Him on December 8th, 1979.

I do as well. By His salvation and grace.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/3/2013 5:40:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 5:21:40 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:18:39 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:12:39 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 5:09:59 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Are you a sinner or a saint? You can only be one or the other, not both.

Why are you asking? By your talk you should know!The Bible tells me I am a saint but you say I am a sinner-lost.

How did you become a saint, since you believe you're a saint?

By the blood of the Lamb and my testimony of Him.

I know exactly how God made me a saint which took Him 28 1/2 years to do from the time He gave me faith in Him on December 8th, 1979.

I do as well. By His salvation and grace.

What did God have you do to get your flesh into total obedience to Him so He could have you testify to the invisible Christ? Remember, all us saints have to obey ALL God's commandments to be His voice and speak the Truth to the believers who listen to us.

Can you obey ALL God's commandments to write and speak for Him?

This means you can't sin anymore.

1 John 2:
3: And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
29: If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that every one who does right is born of him.

1 John 3:
6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.
9: No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

1 John 5:
2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
18: We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Are you a sinner or a sinless saint who speaks for God?
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 5:59:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 5:40:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:

What did God have you do to get your flesh into total obedience to Him so He could have you testify to the invisible Christ?

By faith in Christ Jesus, confession of my sinful nature and my need of His sacrifice an grace.

Remember, all us saints have to obey ALL God's commandments to be His voice and speak the Truth to the believers who listen to us.

If anyone could obey all God's commandments then Jesus Christ was not needed. If you say you obey all God's commandments then you make Him a liar and you throw away the cause of Christ.

Can you obey ALL God's commandments to write and speak for Him?

No an neither can you.

This means you can't sin anymore.

If we say we no longer sin then we make Him a liar and crucify Jesus afresh or out words you should crawl up on the cross and die for the world because you are now perfect, you aren't and can't.

1 John 2:

1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3: And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

7: Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

12: I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29: If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that every one who does right is born of him.

What is His commandments?
To love the Lord thy God with all thy mite.
To love thy neighbor as thyself.

1 John 3:

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

In Him is no sin. Our flesh will be destroyed because it contains sin. Are you without flesh?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

9: No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

1 John 5:
2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
18: We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Why do we not sin? Because once we are born of God, our sin is no longer upon us, Jesus has took it upon himself. Only those who reject Jesus and His sacrifice have their sin upon them.

Are you a sinner or a sinless saint who speaks for God?

We are sinless because all sin is washed away by the blood of the Lamb but we are still contained in the flesh and have sin or otherwise we would not need the Lamb.

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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9/4/2013 2:38:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 3:00:09 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:43:06 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:34:57 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 2:29:52 PM, johnlubba wrote:

A metaphorical story in the Bible is not enough to put out an order that women should have to remain silent and not be able to teach a man, it's not reality. it's absurd. Women are obviously teachers of men....What about mothers, what about school teachers, what about those who do actually teach men.....This isn't permitted in your book.

But here we are seeing you argue the opposite. The Bible is right and reality is wrong.



No, I have argued and you have ignored that these verses spoke of Biblical and religious things. Not school, not child raising, not social norms, and not household life. The Bible is a religious book for the Church of God and God commands that a woman is not to teach over the man on religious things. It does not even say that women cannot have women groups and teach in them. So, basically you read far to much into what is written and try to take religious commands and put them outside of it.

So you have interpreted it as, women are not to have authority over man and should not be allowed to teach a man in religious matters. Now I am more convinced that you make it up as you go along, first you charge me with making wild accusations about home life, or school teaching, or social norms, then you fabricate your own opinion, which you think fits nicely with your ideology,

Only if I were to accept your interpretation as valid, it is still a ridiculous claim that women should be quite under a man concerning religious matters. One of the best philosophers I have ever met is a woman. Don't be such a sexist and get back to reality.

It is now documented that you only read and respond to what you want. I have maintained in this discussion that the verses you posted are in a religious frame and are for in the church. The entire chapter reflects this so I do not have to make anything up as I go along. It has been that way for thousands of years, written and documented. You simply only want to read and believe what you want. You hate the Bible, God, and Christianity so you ignore what shows you incorrect and take a few verses and run with them instead of reading the whole context itself. Well leads read that chapter in whole:

Notice Timothy is commanding both men and women here and this speaks in the church and out of it.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Then He turns to women claiming to be Godly:

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.11 Let the woman learn(learn what? Godliness, which is religious things) in silence with all subjection.12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

So, two points here:
1) This speaks only to women trying to be Godly-religious.
2) They need to learn Godliness in silence and are not to teach over the man.

Women who teach children are not teaching over men. Women teaching women are not teaching over men.

Proverbs 31:10 An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels.

Proverbs 11:16 A gracious woman gets honor

Genesis 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."

Proverbs 31:26 She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.

Ephesians 5:22-23, 33 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior" However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Proverbs 14:1 The wisest of women builds her house

I stand by what I have said and so does the Bible. You can stay ignorant and confused believing you know what it is your are talking about.

You win on the basis of me believing what I want and being ignorant and confused..lol. And not really having the enthuasim or will to continue this semantical discussion.

Adam and Eve are fictional characters yet women across the board are condemned to be subordinate to man concering religious matters, as you put it. Over a fictional characters supposed weakness to be deceived... As if man has some ability to withstand the power of the so called Satan.... Even this is illogical, but let's work together and make this fit nicely with our ideology.... At least it took the devil to decieve woman, whereas man was deceived by a mere woman.... If anything man come out the more vulnerable by both Satan ( as Saran is obviously more power than a woman ) and woman being able to decieve him... But actually both are just as vulnerable to so called sin when considering how powerful the so called devil is compared to both.... But wait, let's just let man be the teacher and women are not to teach. Because man isn't the one the devil deceived it was Eve not Adam, although if the devil wanted to, he could decieve Adam as well, as even Eve managed to have an influence over Adam.

Also I don't hate the Bible, I just seriously don't get it or understand it. God is not only for intellectuals who can read a book which is on par with the hardest of pub quizzes. If you have to decipher loads of context instead of straight forwardness to understand the Bible, then by looking at today's society, God is expecting to much,

next you will say, all that is needed is to accept Christ. But why should I accept something I do not only disagree with, but find it terribly difficult to understand.
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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9/4/2013 1:22:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:31:10 PM, johnlubba wrote:
Firstly it clearly say's that there is only one mediator between man and God, and that mediator is Jesus who is himself a human....Secondly the degradation towards women is unwarranted and obviously charged by an egotistical bias human, namely Timothy....

Jesus the Christ was 100% man, but also 100% God. He is part of the Holy Trinity.



1 Timothy 2 (New International Version)

2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people" 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle"I am telling the truth, I am not lying"and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing"if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

The body of Christ has a chain of command. Men are over women, Christ is over men, and God the Father is over Christ. Do we Christians believe that Christ is any less worthy of worship then the Father? No. So do we think that women are any less important then men? No! Women just have certain jobs that men don't, and men have certain jobs that women don't. Women have a very important role. They bear children, they teach children, they provide emotional support for the family, and they make sure the work around the home gets done. They are in submission to men, because men are the leaders, however I think you are going under the assumption God allows men to treat women as if they are slaves that have no rights at all. This wrong! This a totally wrong but common thought! It is written (ESV):

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her," ~ Ephesians 5:25

"Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." ~ 1 Peter 3:7

"Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman." But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. ..." 1 Corinthians 7: 1-40

"Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them." ~ Colossians 3:19

So let there not be any doubt that men are to be the tyrants of the family, because that is false. Men are just more naturally able to be leaders. We tend to be stronger (both physically and spiritually) and less emotional and when we are we hardly ever let it in our way of making decisions whereas, the woman is emotional and are naive sometimes. The Bible doesn't teach that they are any less human, or as I proved, that they are what many non-believers would say: sex slaves. This is false. Men just have different jobs within the family and the church then women.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."