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What is the origin of morality with God?

bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 1:54:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

Actually both.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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9/3/2013 1:58:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:54:58 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

Actually both.

How can that be, though?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/3/2013 2:00:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:58:15 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:54:58 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

Actually both.

How can that be, though?

He commands them because they are moral, they are moral because they come from Him, nothing comes from Him with error or blemish. Therefore, God given morality is perfect and moral because it is from Him.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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3/27/2014 11:52:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

What do you mean by "moral"?
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/27/2014 7:29:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

The second one. This does not make morality arbitrary, because being moral is better than being immoral and corrupt, therefore God must be moral, so whatever he commands must be moral too.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/27/2014 7:36:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 7:29:17 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

The second one. This does not make morality arbitrary, because being moral is better than being immoral and corrupt, therefore God must be moral, so whatever he commands must be moral too.

So if God commanded you to rape a 12 year old girl who had done nothing wrong... you would consider that moral?
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/27/2014 8:26:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 7:36:18 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:29:17 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

The second one. This does not make morality arbitrary, because being moral is better than being immoral and corrupt, therefore God must be moral, so whatever he commands must be moral too.

So if God commanded you to rape a 12 year old girl who had done nothing wrong... you would consider that moral?

No because if someone commanded me to do that, they would not be God. It is greater to be moral and just than immoral and corrupt.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/27/2014 8:41:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 8:26:15 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:36:18 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:29:17 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

The second one. This does not make morality arbitrary, because being moral is better than being immoral and corrupt, therefore God must be moral, so whatever he commands must be moral too.

So if God commanded you to rape a 12 year old girl who had done nothing wrong... you would consider that moral?

No because if someone commanded me to do that, they would not be God.

That does not address the question. Whatever you believe God would or would not do is completely irrelevant.

This is an "if" question. There is no reason to run away from one unless you know you cannot logically support your position.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/27/2014 8:49:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 8:41:23 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:26:15 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:36:18 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:29:17 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

The second one. This does not make morality arbitrary, because being moral is better than being immoral and corrupt, therefore God must be moral, so whatever he commands must be moral too.

So if God commanded you to rape a 12 year old girl who had done nothing wrong... you would consider that moral?

No because if someone commanded me to do that, they would not be God.

That does not address the question. Whatever you believe God would or would not do is completely irrelevant.

This is an "if" question. There is no reason to run away from one unless you know you cannot logically support your position.

If someone said rape was good, He would not be God, and so I would not rape her Rape is unjust and God is necessarily just. Such a command could not come from God. I don't get why atheists think they can corner theists on this.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/27/2014 8:55:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 8:49:35 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:41:23 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:26:15 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:36:18 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:29:17 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

The second one. This does not make morality arbitrary, because being moral is better than being immoral and corrupt, therefore God must be moral, so whatever he commands must be moral too.

So if God commanded you to rape a 12 year old girl who had done nothing wrong... you would consider that moral?

No because if someone commanded me to do that, they would not be God.

That does not address the question. Whatever you believe God would or would not do is completely irrelevant.

This is an "if" question. There is no reason to run away from one unless you know you cannot logically support your position.

If someone said rape was good, He would not be God, and so I would not rape her Rape is unjust and God is necessarily just. Such a command could not come from God. I don't get why atheists think they can corner theists on this.

Is God omnipotent? Yes or No?
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/27/2014 9:00:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 8:55:24 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:49:35 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:41:23 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:26:15 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:36:18 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:29:17 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

The second one. This does not make morality arbitrary, because being moral is better than being immoral and corrupt, therefore God must be moral, so whatever he commands must be moral too.

So if God commanded you to rape a 12 year old girl who had done nothing wrong... you would consider that moral?

No because if someone commanded me to do that, they would not be God.

That does not address the question. Whatever you believe God would or would not do is completely irrelevant.

This is an "if" question. There is no reason to run away from one unless you know you cannot logically support your position.

If someone said rape was good, He would not be God, and so I would not rape her Rape is unjust and God is necessarily just. Such a command could not come from God. I don't get why atheists think they can corner theists on this.

Is God omnipotent? Yes or No?

Yes.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/27/2014 9:07:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:00:14 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:55:24 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:49:35 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:41:23 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:26:15 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:36:18 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/27/2014 7:29:17 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 9/3/2013 1:49:34 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Does God command things because they are moral, or are they moral because God commands them?

The second one. This does not make morality arbitrary, because being moral is better than being immoral and corrupt, therefore God must be moral, so whatever he commands must be moral too.

So if God commanded you to rape a 12 year old girl who had done nothing wrong... you would consider that moral?

No because if someone commanded me to do that, they would not be God.

That does not address the question. Whatever you believe God would or would not do is completely irrelevant.

This is an "if" question. There is no reason to run away from one unless you know you cannot logically support your position.

If someone said rape was good, He would not be God, and so I would not rape her Rape is unjust and God is necessarily just. Such a command could not come from God. I don't get why atheists think they can corner theists on this.

Is God omnipotent? Yes or No?

Yes.

Then by definition, he is capable of commanding you to rape a 12 year old girl.