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Islamic Evangelists

Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/18/2009 8:11:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://news.bbc.co.uk...

I found this article explaining these new rising stars in the Muslim world to be extremely interesting.

While it may not exactly by "evangelism" by its strictest definitions, its just a term to describe the style; loud, individualistic and modern. These popular individuals reach out to the younger generations, hold rock concerts, create TV shows based on The Apprentice.. yet with a religious, "your actions define Islam," twist.

This, however, seems to represent a much deeper shift in Islam rather than just the divide between old and young. I am admittedly not an expert on Islam by any accounts, but I have never heard of Muslims talking about how it is individual actions and ideas that define the religion, but rather how individuals are supposed to be defined by the scripture. Case and point with Mirza, who, while an interesting fellow, seems to be defined by Sharia, and only Sharia.

It looks to me as if this could be the basis of an "Islamic Reformation." The shift from the divine defining humanity, to the admittance of humanity defining the divine, seems a very possible outcome of this. This isn't an opinion rooted in any facts or anything, but it is a hypothetical - what do others think?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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12/18/2009 8:23:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Brilliant, the more open Islam is, them more susceptible it is to it's downfall.

Step 1 - Religions open up
Step 2 - ?
Step 3 - Atheist Utopia
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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12/18/2009 10:40:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Assuming things continue as they are then the model of traditional or hard line Islam is unsustainable. We can already see it, most Islamic countries are showing signs of change and westernisation. Thanks to the conquest of Iraq and Afghanistan progress will be delayed there. But Muslims are not going to want to continue being enslaved by another persons interpretation of the koran, not whilst this denies them higher standards of living and education. Not to mention the one half of the population that wants to stand up and rejoin the human race.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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12/18/2009 10:56:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Volkov thanks so much for your very informative post..!

Some nations like dubai and even others like kazachston who are not making noice ,made already moves in a more pro freedom islam it good to get informed about news like you that will help more people be more able to injoy life..!

This is more productive then what we did in iraq..!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
banker
Posts: 1,370
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12/19/2009 4:49:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This should be the most popular topic...
Its very informative and this info is nowhere to be found..!

But some like only controversial stuff ...! Or some need somthing to rant and rave about..!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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12/19/2009 4:52:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/18/2009 8:23:59 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Brilliant, the more open Islam is, them more susceptible it is to it's downfall.

Step 1 - Religions open up
Step 2 - ?
Step 3 - Atheist Utopia

Erm, I don't see that happening anytime soon. At least not as long as people continue converting.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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12/22/2009 5:00:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Insert in my opinion pandas post was totaly uncalled for.
How productive is a "alex jones" take on a issue like this?
This has nothing to to with fighting islam,unless you believe that islam can't exist without evil...!
So why would someone view ,islam turned into a peacefull style,as a conspiracey to destroy islam.?

Its a response totaly out of weck...!
I would hope this should suceed and if it does it will build islam,and also save the people from the current vicious circumstances created by islam.

If this will succeed convetions will not only be by those who like to live at the edge,or the ones who injoy barbarisem,it would include family builders and some looking for morale etc.
Their is lots of positive parts to islam..!
We just need to eliminate the evil part
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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12/22/2009 5:19:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 5:00:40 AM, banker wrote:
Insert in my opinion pandas post was totaly uncalled for.
How productive is a "alex jones" take on a issue like this?
This has nothing to to with fighting islam,unless you believe that islam can't exist without evil...!
So why would someone view ,islam turned into a peacefull style,as a conspiracey to destroy islam.?

All religion is evil. 'Nuff said


Its a response totaly out of weck...!
I would hope this should suceed and if it does it will build islam,and also save the people from the current vicious circumstances created by islam.

Atheism is preferable on many levels.


If this will succeed convetions will not only be by those who like to live at the edge,or the ones who injoy barbarisem,it would include family builders and some looking for morale etc.
Their is lots of positive parts to islam..!
We just need to eliminate the evil part

The evil part is?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/22/2009 5:19:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I dislike this. I don't want people to "modernize" Islam. If that guy is a Muslim, then why would he do what goes against the Qur'an? If he believes that God knows best, then why does he try to change what Muslims must believe is God's law?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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12/22/2009 5:23:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 5:19:42 AM, Mirza wrote:
I dislike this. I don't want people to "modernize" Islam. If that guy is a Muslim, then why would he do what goes against the Qur'an? If he believes that God knows best, then why does he try to change what Muslims must believe is God's law?

Well that's his problem.
From my perspective I want to see countries that give respect to both genders, do not engage in honour killings, allow freedom of religion, encourage education and are politically stable. If that is achieved by literally following the koran then so be it, if that is achieved by ignoring it completely then so be it.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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12/22/2009 5:24:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 5:19:42 AM, Mirza wrote:
I dislike this. I don't want people to "modernize" Islam. If that guy is a Muslim, then why would he do what goes against the Qur'an? If he believes that God knows best, then why does he try to change what Muslims must believe is God's law?

Because it's been distorted. See: Iran
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/22/2009 5:38:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 5:23:51 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
From my perspective I want to see countries that give respect to both genders
Me too, and the Qur'an encourages it.

do not engage in honour killings
The Qur'an is strictly against it.

allow freedom of religion
Fine, except in the Arabian Peninsula, and propagation of other religions. As I said before, we don't want to be minorities in our own lands.

encourage education
Gaining knowledge is obligatory. The one who does not want to gain knowledge is not equal to the one who does. Because the Taliban is against education for women or something, this does not mean Islam is. Taliban are known for their innovations.

and are politically stable.
Well I want that too. It's not to blame on Shari'a, but leaders.

If that is achieved by literally following the koran then so be it, if that is achieved by ignoring it completely then so be it.
It can all be achieved by following the Qur'an. But we don't want people to be intoxicated, or dressed immodestly. That applies to both genders.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/22/2009 5:39:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 5:24:09 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Because it's been distorted. See: Iran
What has? And what has Iran got to do with it?
banker
Posts: 1,370
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12/22/2009 6:06:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Mirza their would be a point to respond to you,if you would have the capability to comparhand 2 things:

1) The quran proves to us as much as the bible to you...!

2) Hipocracey is wrong regardless if it works for you or against you...! Example if muslims don't want to be "minorities in their own land" just like england and france would not like to be minorities in their own land...!

If your not ready to sacrifice something for your belive ,your believe is not really a believe...!
Again if you would be able to play by the same rules you axpect from other ,their would be a point to respond to you...!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
johngriswald
Posts: 1,294
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12/22/2009 8:01:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 6:06:56 AM, banker wrote:

are you originally from the US
when/where did you develop the habit of ending your sentences with ...
Why do you end most sentences with a exclamation mark
Having problems with the fans site? Suggestions? Can't log in? Forgot your password? Want to be an editor and write opinion pieces? PM Me and I'll get it sorted out.

ddofans.com
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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12/22/2009 10:26:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 5:38:09 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/22/2009 5:23:51 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
From my perspective I want to see countries that give respect to both genders
Me too, and the Qur'an encourages it.


Actually I do know of at least one bit that does. But when would you ever hear of Islamic fundementalists/hardliners/tradionalists insisting on gender equality?

do not engage in honour killings
The Qur'an is strictly against it.


You are probably right and in any case it is just as much cultural as religious (not that the two can be seperated).

allow freedom of religion
Fine, except in the Arabian Peninsula, and propagation of other religions. As I said before, we don't want to be minorities in our own lands.


No sorry, the koran requires freedom of religion for religious minorities willing to pay a specific tax. If I can't build a church or a synagouge or a hundu temple in saudi arabia then its not an Islamic country. Sure I would not expect to be able to do this in Mecca, but maybe Medina and definitely in 'secular' cities.

It appears to me that any Islamic country would be improved by liberalising or weakening Islam.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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1/5/2010 6:52:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Cereb the hypocricey-or selective use of logic-,is a sign of their level of honesty..!
Al-Taqiyya - Permission lie 2 infdl ,explains how on one hand claim that glorification of murder in islam is a myth,then on the other hand when concious muslims want to take their word for it ,hat is changed -cat wags its tail- and claim that turning islam into something less vilant is unislamic...!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/5/2010 7:15:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 6:52:04 AM, banker wrote:
Cereb the hypocricey-or selective use of logic-,is a sign of their level of honesty..!
Al-Taqiyya - Permission lie 2 infdl ,explains how on one hand claim that glorification of murder in islam is a myth,then on the other hand when concious muslims want to take their word for it ,hat is changed -cat wags its tail- and claim that turning islam into something less vilant is unislamic...!

Don't you dare post as if I was a member of your neo-nazi circle jerk, I don't care what your bigoted websites claim about Islam. Until you correct your profile and learn how to read and write I am not interested in you.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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1/5/2010 12:45:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I apolagize if I made you feal like a circle jerk of any kind. I was not aware that there is such a thing like a circle jerk.

By the way I am not making proposals to guys any way,no need to distance yourself...!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/5/2010 12:48:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 5:19:42 AM, Mirza wrote:
I dislike this. I don't want people to "modernize" Islam. If that guy is a Muslim, then why would he do what goes against the Qur'an? If he believes that God knows best, then why does he try to change what Muslims must believe is God's law?

I just noticed this now. What did I say? xD

You're too classical, Mirza. People have different views and different ways of trying to get across what is essentially the same message. I don't know why you have an issue with it, especially since, you know, Islam is all tolerant and such.