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Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith

MadCornishBiker
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9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
2 Corinthians 13:5,6 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved. 6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.

It is a shame more people don;t take notice of that wise advice from Paul.

To many just look for scriptures which back up what they wish to believe and stop there, but is that what the scripture is really asking us to do?

Well consider the words. "Keep testing" and "prove what you yourself are".

When a baker proves the dough for the bread he is baking, which is the origin of that word, he is testing it to see it it rises or not. He doesn't just want to see if he has put the right ingredients in, but also it the yeast is live, the sugar is feeding it correctly and the salt not killing it off too soon.

Only when the dough has been proved is it ready for the oven.

Likewise we should "test" our beliefs, to destruction if necessary, and only if we cannot prove them wrong do we know we are on the right track. Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.

Do you test your faith that way, or do you just complacently take whatever understanding you have been given and go with that?

Christ would not approve if that is how you approach things.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/6/2013 4:51:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
2 Corinthians 13:5,6 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved. 6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.

It is a shame more people don;t take notice of that wise advice from Paul.

To many just look for scriptures which back up what they wish to believe and stop there, but is that what the scripture is really asking us to do?

Well consider the words. "Keep testing" and "prove what you yourself are".

When a baker proves the dough for the bread he is baking, which is the origin of that word, he is testing it to see it it rises or not. He doesn't just want to see if he has put the right ingredients in, but also it the yeast is live, the sugar is feeding it correctly and the salt not killing it off too soon.

Only when the dough has been proved is it ready for the oven.

Likewise we should "test" our beliefs, to destruction if necessary, and only if we cannot prove them wrong do we know we are on the right track. Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.

Do you test your faith that way, or do you just complacently take whatever understanding you have been given and go with that?

Christ would not approve if that is how you approach things.

Sinners don't have any faith in God because they don't know Him. Besides, not even us saints can test ourselves because we know God is the Creator and not us. We can't possibly change ourselves because we're only created as wavelengths of energy and our flesh is an illusion that will be destroyed soon by God's will.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.
seeu46
Posts: 578
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9/6/2013 6:01:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 5:04:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 6:01:48 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Is there an echo in here?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/7/2013 8:06:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.

That's why you don't obey My Voice My disobedient child. You love your own interpretations of the scriptures that I didn't give to you.
seeu46
Posts: 578
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9/7/2013 10:51:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 5:04:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:01:48 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Is there an echo in here?

The echo.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/7/2013 10:55:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 10:51:06 AM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/7/2013 5:04:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:01:48 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Is there an echo in here?

The echo.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Sinners ( ALL Christians ) can't obey the commandments of our Creator. Since you're only a sinner who can't obey God's Voice, your words are vain.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 10:59:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 10:51:06 AM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/7/2013 5:04:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:01:48 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Is there an echo in here?

The echo.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Lol I thought there was.
seeu46
Posts: 578
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9/7/2013 11:03:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 10:55:44 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2013 10:51:06 AM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/7/2013 5:04:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:01:48 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Is there an echo in here?

The echo.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Sinners ( ALL Christians ) can't obey the commandments of our Creator. Since you're only a sinner who can't obey God's Voice, your words are vain.

Blessed are you if you can obey
seeu46
Posts: 578
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9/7/2013 11:12:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 10:59:46 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 10:51:06 AM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/7/2013 5:04:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:01:48 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/6/2013 6:00:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2013 5:57:53 PM, seeu46 wrote:
Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

That is the basis of it, but don't forget John 17:3. You need to get to know them both, as Jesus said.

Who you love, you obey.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Is there an echo in here?

The echo.

Love God and love his Son Jesus Christ and let the holy spirit come to you. Love everyone like yourself.

Lol I thought there was.

No........you thought it was just a "echo". This is "the" echo. :)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/7/2013 12:31:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.


Why? For one, that's impossible....
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Sitara
Posts: 745
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9/7/2013 1:21:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
2 Corinthians 13:5,6 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved. 6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.

It is a shame more people don;t take notice of that wise advice from Paul.

To many just look for scriptures which back up what they wish to believe and stop there, but is that what the scripture is really asking us to do?

Well consider the words. "Keep testing" and "prove what you yourself are".

When a baker proves the dough for the bread he is baking, which is the origin of that word, he is testing it to see it it rises or not. He doesn't just want to see if he has put the right ingredients in, but also it the yeast is live, the sugar is feeding it correctly and the salt not killing it off too soon.

Only when the dough has been proved is it ready for the oven.

Likewise we should "test" our beliefs, to destruction if necessary, and only if we cannot prove them wrong do we know we are on the right track. Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.

Do you test your faith that way, or do you just complacently take whatever understanding you have been given and go with that?

Christ would not approve if that is how you approach things.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 1:36:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 12:31:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.


Why? For one, that's impossible....

For man, maybe, but with God all things are possible.

I don't have any doubts, though admittedly it has taken quite some time to get there, however slowly but surely I have found that study resolves them all. Of course the aid of holy spirit is an essential aid.

Of course it is also true that one of the fruits of holy spirit is faith. The more you rely on holy spirit the more faith it gives you.

You just have to learn to accept that you can't do it alone.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 1:45:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 1:21:16 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
2 Corinthians 13:5,6 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved. 6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.

It is a shame more people don;t take notice of that wise advice from Paul.

To many just look for scriptures which back up what they wish to believe and stop there, but is that what the scripture is really asking us to do?

Well consider the words. "Keep testing" and "prove what you yourself are".

When a baker proves the dough for the bread he is baking, which is the origin of that word, he is testing it to see it it rises or not. He doesn't just want to see if he has put the right ingredients in, but also it the yeast is live, the sugar is feeding it correctly and the salt not killing it off too soon.

Only when the dough has been proved is it ready for the oven.

Likewise we should "test" our beliefs, to destruction if necessary, and only if we cannot prove them wrong do we know we are on the right track. Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.

Do you test your faith that way, or do you just complacently take whatever understanding you have been given and go with that?

Christ would not approve if that is how you approach things.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whilst I suspect you are misapplying it, in essence you are right.

Faith, in truth is a gift from God, through our reliance on holy spirit, not on ourselves.

However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it.

As James points out in his first chapter, God will give you all the help you need, provided you do so in the faith that he will. It helps to remember that God does these things not for our own benefit, as individuals, but for the benefit of his plan, his purposes and therefore the whole of mankind.

As Jesus points out, with a little faith, only a little faith we could move mountains if it were in his Father's purposes for us to do so.

After all, in response to Joshua's prayer for more time to defend the Gibeonites, God made the sun "appear to stand still for a whole day".
Sitara
Posts: 745
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9/7/2013 1:52:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 1:45:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:21:16 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
2 Corinthians 13:5,6 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved. 6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.

It is a shame more people don;t take notice of that wise advice from Paul.

To many just look for scriptures which back up what they wish to believe and stop there, but is that what the scripture is really asking us to do?

Well consider the words. "Keep testing" and "prove what you yourself are".

When a baker proves the dough for the bread he is baking, which is the origin of that word, he is testing it to see it it rises or not. He doesn't just want to see if he has put the right ingredients in, but also it the yeast is live, the sugar is feeding it correctly and the salt not killing it off too soon.

Only when the dough has been proved is it ready for the oven.

Likewise we should "test" our beliefs, to destruction if necessary, and only if we cannot prove them wrong do we know we are on the right track. Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.

Do you test your faith that way, or do you just complacently take whatever understanding you have been given and go with that?

Christ would not approve if that is how you approach things.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whilst I suspect you are misapplying it, in essence you are right.

Faith, in truth is a gift from God, through our reliance on holy spirit, not on ourselves.

However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it.

As James points out in his first chapter, God will give you all the help you need, provided you do so in the faith that he will. It helps to remember that God does these things not for our own benefit, as individuals, but for the benefit of his plan, his purposes and therefore the whole of mankind.

As Jesus points out, with a little faith, only a little faith we could move mountains if it were in his Father's purposes for us to do so.

After all, in response to Joshua's prayer for more time to defend the Gibeonites, God made the sun "appear to stand still for a whole day".

"However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it." Agreed. How do you believe that salvation is obtained: by grace through faith, by grace through faith plus works, or works only?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/7/2013 1:55:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 1:36:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 12:31:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.


Why? For one, that's impossible....


For man, maybe, but with God all things are possible.

I don't have any doubts, though admittedly it has taken quite some time to get there, however slowly but surely I have found that study resolves them all. Of course the aid of holy spirit is an essential aid.

Of course it is also true that one of the fruits of holy spirit is faith. The more you rely on holy spirit the more faith it gives you.

You just have to learn to accept that you can't do it alone.

If even Jesus couldn't remove all his doubts the prospects don't look too good for you.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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9/7/2013 1:56:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Of course it is also true that one of the fruits of holy spirit is faith. The more you rely on holy spirit the more faith it gives you."

No, it's not - not at all. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 2:35:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 1:56:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
"Of course it is also true that one of the fruits of holy spirit is faith. The more you rely on holy spirit the more faith it gives you."

No, it's not - not at all. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Again you deny scripture.

Galatians 5:22-23
KJV(i) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Anyway, how can you say what is true? Your faith, as you prove over and over again is in the words of men, and your own thoughts, not in the word of God.

If your faith were truly in the word of God you could not have such self confidence or confidence in men.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart+ and do not lean upon your own understanding.

Ecclesiastes 12:12
12 As regards anything besides these, my son, take a warning: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion [to them] is wearisome to the flesh.

1 Corinthians. 3:19.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: "He catches the wise in their own cunning."

Just 3 more of the many, many scriptures that you deny by your words and your teachings.

For sure God has you caught in your own cunning.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 2:42:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 1:55:08 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:36:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 12:31:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.


Why? For one, that's impossible....


For man, maybe, but with God all things are possible.

I don't have any doubts, though admittedly it has taken quite some time to get there, however slowly but surely I have found that study resolves them all. Of course the aid of holy spirit is an essential aid.

Of course it is also true that one of the fruits of holy spirit is faith. The more you rely on holy spirit the more faith it gives you.

You just have to learn to accept that you can't do it alone.

If even Jesus couldn't remove all his doubts the prospects don't look too good for you.

Jesus doubted himself, as we all should, but never once did he doubt his father.

Anyone who doesn't doubt himself is asking for trouble, and will most certainly get it. That leads to complacency and therefore to over reliance on self.

When I said I has no doubts I should have qualified that by saying " in God, his word and his promises". Of course I doubt myself, a lot at times, but then I turn to God for help and support, and get it.

Jesus had no doubts. I guess you are referring to his exclamation just before dying "Father, Father why have you forsaken me".

That was no doubt. That was fulfilment of prophecy.

Psalm 22:1
22 My God, my God, why have you left me?
[Why are you] far from saving me,
[From] the words of my roaring?

Isaiah 53:10
10 But Jehovah himself took delight in crushing him; he made him sick. If you will set his soul as a guilt offering, he will see his offspring, he will prolong [his] days, and in his hand what is the delight of Jehovah will succeed.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 2:52:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 1:52:04 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:45:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:21:16 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
2 Corinthians 13:5,6 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved. 6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.

It is a shame more people don;t take notice of that wise advice from Paul.

To many just look for scriptures which back up what they wish to believe and stop there, but is that what the scripture is really asking us to do?

Well consider the words. "Keep testing" and "prove what you yourself are".

When a baker proves the dough for the bread he is baking, which is the origin of that word, he is testing it to see it it rises or not. He doesn't just want to see if he has put the right ingredients in, but also it the yeast is live, the sugar is feeding it correctly and the salt not killing it off too soon.

Only when the dough has been proved is it ready for the oven.

Likewise we should "test" our beliefs, to destruction if necessary, and only if we cannot prove them wrong do we know we are on the right track. Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.

Do you test your faith that way, or do you just complacently take whatever understanding you have been given and go with that?

Christ would not approve if that is how you approach things.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whilst I suspect you are misapplying it, in essence you are right.

Faith, in truth is a gift from God, through our reliance on holy spirit, not on ourselves.

However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it.

As James points out in his first chapter, God will give you all the help you need, provided you do so in the faith that he will. It helps to remember that God does these things not for our own benefit, as individuals, but for the benefit of his plan, his purposes and therefore the whole of mankind.

As Jesus points out, with a little faith, only a little faith we could move mountains if it were in his Father's purposes for us to do so.

After all, in response to Joshua's prayer for more time to defend the Gibeonites, God made the sun "appear to stand still for a whole day".

"However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it." Agreed. How do you believe that salvation is obtained: by grace through faith, by grace through faith plus works, or works only?

Paul said that works are useless for salvation.

James said that faith without works is dead.

Is that a contradiction?

Well first ask yourself what "works" these two apostles were referring to. Were they the same thing?

The context of what Paul says in in a discussion of Law observance.

I would recommend reading the whole of James' letter to get the full context of that, but you will soon realise that James is not talking about works of Law, but rather about works which demonstrate your faith, works which show you are determined to take in Christs' words "you must love your neighbour as yourself" which he put second only to love of God.

Those works, done out of love of God and love of neighbour are what show your suitability to be a part of God's kingdom.

So, if you do the right works, out of faith and love, then your faith will save you, because you don't only have faith but you show it to God and to others.

I often think the word sometimes translated "Grace" is another classic mistranslation which whilst not exactly wrong gives the wrong impression. What it actually refers to is God's love, his mercy and his justice therefore I rather like the expression "loving kindness", however what ever word you use, as long as you don;t loose sight of what it represents I guess it doesn't matter.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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9/7/2013 3:01:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "Again you deny scripture.

Galatians 5:22-23
KJV(i) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Anna: Tis you who deny it. Faith is not a fruit of the Spirit. Notice that you ran to the KJV for a mistranslation. Dishonest again, eh?

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, self-control; against such there is no law." (ASV)

There is quite a difference between "faith" and "faithfulness".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Sitara
Posts: 745
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9/7/2013 3:01:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 2:52:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:52:04 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:45:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:21:16 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
2 Corinthians 13:5,6 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved. 6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.

It is a shame more people don;t take notice of that wise advice from Paul.

To many just look for scriptures which back up what they wish to believe and stop there, but is that what the scripture is really asking us to do?

Well consider the words. "Keep testing" and "prove what you yourself are".

When a baker proves the dough for the bread he is baking, which is the origin of that word, he is testing it to see it it rises or not. He doesn't just want to see if he has put the right ingredients in, but also it the yeast is live, the sugar is feeding it correctly and the salt not killing it off too soon.

Only when the dough has been proved is it ready for the oven.

Likewise we should "test" our beliefs, to destruction if necessary, and only if we cannot prove them wrong do we know we are on the right track. Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.

Do you test your faith that way, or do you just complacently take whatever understanding you have been given and go with that?

Christ would not approve if that is how you approach things.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whilst I suspect you are misapplying it, in essence you are right.

Faith, in truth is a gift from God, through our reliance on holy spirit, not on ourselves.

However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it.

As James points out in his first chapter, God will give you all the help you need, provided you do so in the faith that he will. It helps to remember that God does these things not for our own benefit, as individuals, but for the benefit of his plan, his purposes and therefore the whole of mankind.

As Jesus points out, with a little faith, only a little faith we could move mountains if it were in his Father's purposes for us to do so.

After all, in response to Joshua's prayer for more time to defend the Gibeonites, God made the sun "appear to stand still for a whole day".

"However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it." Agreed. How do you believe that salvation is obtained: by grace through faith, by grace through faith plus works, or works only?

Paul said that works are useless for salvation.

James said that faith without works is dead.

Is that a contradiction?

Well first ask yourself what "works" these two apostles were referring to. Were they the same thing?

The context of what Paul says in in a discussion of Law observance.

I would recommend reading the whole of James' letter to get the full context of that, but you will soon realise that James is not talking about works of Law, but rather about works which demonstrate your faith, works which show you are determined to take in Christs' words "you must love your neighbour as yourself" which he put second only to love of God.

Those works, done out of love of God and love of neighbour are what show your suitability to be a part of God's kingdom.

So, if you do the right works, out of faith and love, then your faith will save you, because you don't only have faith but you show it to God and to others.

I often think the word sometimes translated "Grace" is another classic mistranslation which whilst not exactly wrong gives the wrong impression. What it actually refers to is God's love, his mercy and his justice therefore I rather like the expression "loving kindness", however what ever word you use, as long as you don;t loose sight of what it represents I guess it doesn't matter.
I feel that good works are the result of, not the cause of, salvation.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/7/2013 3:05:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 2:42:01 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Jesus had no doubts. I guess you are referring to his exclamation just before dying "Father, Father why have you forsaken me".

That was no doubt. That was fulfilment of prophecy.

Psalm 22:1
22 My God, my God, why have you left me?
[Why are you] far from saving me,
[From] the words of my roaring?

Isaiah 53:10
10 But Jehovah himself took delight in crushing him; he made him sick. If you will set his soul as a guilt offering, he will see his offspring, he will prolong [his] days, and in his hand what is the delight of Jehovah will succeed.

That makes no sense. Just because it was in the fulfillment of prophecy, it doesn't follow that it wasn't a doubt. The doubt very well could've the process through which the prophecy was fulfilled.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
seeu46
Posts: 578
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9/7/2013 3:58:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 1:56:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
"Of course it is also true that one of the fruits of holy spirit is faith. The more you rely on holy spirit the more faith it gives you."

No, it's not - not at all. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith is a choice isn't it? For their are those that hear and do not have faith in God and their are those that hear and have faith in God.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 4:56:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 3:01:28 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/7/2013 2:52:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:52:04 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:45:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:21:16 PM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/6/2013 1:05:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
2 Corinthians 13:5,6 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU? Unless YOU are disapproved. 6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.

It is a shame more people don;t take notice of that wise advice from Paul.

To many just look for scriptures which back up what they wish to believe and stop there, but is that what the scripture is really asking us to do?

Well consider the words. "Keep testing" and "prove what you yourself are".

When a baker proves the dough for the bread he is baking, which is the origin of that word, he is testing it to see it it rises or not. He doesn't just want to see if he has put the right ingredients in, but also it the yeast is live, the sugar is feeding it correctly and the salt not killing it off too soon.

Only when the dough has been proved is it ready for the oven.

Likewise we should "test" our beliefs, to destruction if necessary, and only if we cannot prove them wrong do we know we are on the right track. Any little doubt has to be ferreted out and got rid of, even the smallest one.

Do you test your faith that way, or do you just complacently take whatever understanding you have been given and go with that?

Christ would not approve if that is how you approach things.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whilst I suspect you are misapplying it, in essence you are right.

Faith, in truth is a gift from God, through our reliance on holy spirit, not on ourselves.

However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it.

As James points out in his first chapter, God will give you all the help you need, provided you do so in the faith that he will. It helps to remember that God does these things not for our own benefit, as individuals, but for the benefit of his plan, his purposes and therefore the whole of mankind.

As Jesus points out, with a little faith, only a little faith we could move mountains if it were in his Father's purposes for us to do so.

After all, in response to Joshua's prayer for more time to defend the Gibeonites, God made the sun "appear to stand still for a whole day".

"However, as always with God we have to take the first step, and do so for the right reasons. Just wanting to know the truth is not enough, you have to be wanting to know it so you can help others e with it." Agreed. How do you believe that salvation is obtained: by grace through faith, by grace through faith plus works, or works only?

Paul said that works are useless for salvation.

James said that faith without works is dead.

Is that a contradiction?

Well first ask yourself what "works" these two apostles were referring to. Were they the same thing?

The context of what Paul says in in a discussion of Law observance.

I would recommend reading the whole of James' letter to get the full context of that, but you will soon realise that James is not talking about works of Law, but rather about works which demonstrate your faith, works which show you are determined to take in Christs' words "you must love your neighbour as yourself" which he put second only to love of God.

Those works, done out of love of God and love of neighbour are what show your suitability to be a part of God's kingdom.

So, if you do the right works, out of faith and love, then your faith will save you, because you don't only have faith but you show it to God and to others.

I often think the word sometimes translated "Grace" is another classic mistranslation which whilst not exactly wrong gives the wrong impression. What it actually refers to is God's love, his mercy and his justice therefore I rather like the expression "loving kindness", however what ever word you use, as long as you don;t loose sight of what it represents I guess it doesn't matter.
I feel that good works are the result of, not the cause of, salvation.

How can that be when no-one is unalterably saved nuit after the final test at the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign (Revelation 20)?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 4:59:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 3:05:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/7/2013 2:42:01 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Jesus had no doubts. I guess you are referring to his exclamation just before dying "Father, Father why have you forsaken me".

That was no doubt. That was fulfilment of prophecy.

Psalm 22:1
22 My God, my God, why have you left me?
[Why are you] far from saving me,
[From] the words of my roaring?

Isaiah 53:10
10 But Jehovah himself took delight in crushing him; he made him sick. If you will set his soul as a guilt offering, he will see his offspring, he will prolong [his] days, and in his hand what is the delight of Jehovah will succeed.

That makes no sense. Just because it was in the fulfillment of prophecy, it doesn't follow that it wasn't a doubt. The doubt very well could've the process through which the prophecy was fulfilled.

It makes perfect sense, Jesus had the confidence in his father to do all that was asked of him, right down to fulfilling that final prophecy.

Don't forget that wasn't the only prophecy that Jesus went out of his way to fulfil, deliberately.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/7/2013 5:06:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 3:58:13 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:56:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
"Of course it is also true that one of the fruits of holy spirit is faith. The more you rely on holy spirit the more faith it gives you."

No, it's not - not at all. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith is a choice isn't it? For their are those that hear and do not have faith in God and their are those that hear and have faith in God.

Doing what brings faith is where the choice lies.

However faith once gained has to be maintained, and again that is where the help provided by God and Christ through the power of holy spirit comes in, despite what some say who don't believe that Christ will keep his promises to be with us until the end of days, and the promises of both Christ and God to supply holy spirit to us at need.

No wonder James said:

James 1:5-8 So, if any one of YOU is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.

I "meet" such ones on here daily.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/7/2013 8:07:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 5:06:05 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/7/2013 3:58:13 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/7/2013 1:56:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
"Of course it is also true that one of the fruits of holy spirit is faith. The more you rely on holy spirit the more faith it gives you."

No, it's not - not at all. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith is a choice isn't it? For their are those that hear and do not have faith in God and their are those that hear and have faith in God.

Doing what brings faith is where the choice lies.

However faith once gained has to be maintained, and again that is where the help provided by God and Christ through the power of holy spirit comes in, despite what some say who don't believe that Christ will keep his promises to be with us until the end of days, and the promises of both Christ and God to supply holy spirit to us at need.

No wonder James said:

James 1:5-8 So, if any one of YOU is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.

I "meet" such ones on here daily.

You don't even know what "faith" means. Faith isn't something we do, it's what God gives us saints when He finally connects with us within our mind. The second He tells us that He's "our Creator", He establishes faith in us. This connection will NEVER be broken for eternity.