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Parent kills child to go to heaven.

Atrag
Posts: 100
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9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/8/2013 6:00:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

this is the stupidest thing i have ever seen
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Atrag
Posts: 100
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9/8/2013 6:05:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 6:00:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

this is the stupidest thing i have ever seen

Then dispute it. My logic is sound.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/8/2013 6:08:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 6:05:46 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:00:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

this is the stupidest thing i have ever seen

Then dispute it. My logic is sound.

1) the statement is far from logical/ sane aka no one would ever do that, and 2) murder is a sin
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Atrag
Posts: 100
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9/8/2013 6:10:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 6:08:20 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:05:46 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:00:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

this is the stupidest thing i have ever seen

Then dispute it. My logic is sound.

1) the statement is far from logical/ sane aka no one would ever do that, and 2) murder is a sin

As I said, I realise its a sin but you love your children more than God then you would still do it.

What do you think any sane person wouldn't do it? It makes perfect sense. Perhaps the reason why Christians don't do it is that deep down they know that their believe probably isn't true and that heaven probably doesn't exist.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/8/2013 6:12:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 6:10:46 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:08:20 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:05:46 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:00:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

this is the stupidest thing i have ever seen

Then dispute it. My logic is sound.

1) the statement is far from logical/ sane aka no one would ever do that, and 2) murder is a sin

As I said, I realise its a sin but you love your children more than God then you would still do it.

What do you think any sane person wouldn't do it? It makes perfect sense. Perhaps the reason why Christians don't do it is that deep down they know that their believe probably isn't true and that heaven probably doesn't exist.

don't assume that i am christian cuz i'm not
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Atrag
Posts: 100
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9/8/2013 6:13:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 6:12:16 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:10:46 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:08:20 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:05:46 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:00:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

this is the stupidest thing i have ever seen

Then dispute it. My logic is sound.

1) the statement is far from logical/ sane aka no one would ever do that, and 2) murder is a sin

As I said, I realise its a sin but you love your children more than God then you would still do it.

What do you think any sane person wouldn't do it? It makes perfect sense. Perhaps the reason why Christians don't do it is that deep down they know that their believe probably isn't true and that heaven probably doesn't exist.

don't assume that i am christian cuz i'm not

A bit irrelevant but okay.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/8/2013 6:13:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 6:13:05 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:12:16 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:10:46 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:08:20 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:05:46 PM, Atrag wrote:
At 9/8/2013 6:00:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

this is the stupidest thing i have ever seen

Then dispute it. My logic is sound.

1) the statement is far from logical/ sane aka no one would ever do that, and 2) murder is a sin

As I said, I realise its a sin but you love your children more than God then you would still do it.

What do you think any sane person wouldn't do it? It makes perfect sense. Perhaps the reason why Christians don't do it is that deep down they know that their believe probably isn't true and that heaven probably doesn't exist.

don't assume that i am christian cuz i'm not

A bit irrelevant but okay.

you say christians which implies that you think i am one
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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9/8/2013 6:28:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Because they are selfish.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/8/2013 7:06:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

That would be illogical because

1) You can ask God to forgive your sins in the sense that they (meaning your sins) won't send you to hell but there will still be tangible consequences for your actions.

2) It would be senseless to kill something you've willingly brought into the world. With your rationale they shouldn't of even conceived a child in the first place if they were ultimately going to kill it.

3) I'm sure parents (presumably "Christian parents" in this case) want to see their children succeed in life but that shouldn't mean putting them before God i.e. worshiping them instead.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/8/2013 7:16:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 7:06:20 PM, Disquisition wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

That would be illogical because

1) You can ask God to forgive your sins in the sense that they (meaning your sins) won't send you to hell but there will still be tangible consequences for your actions.

2) It would be senseless to kill something you've willingly brought into the world. With your rationale they shouldn't of even conceived a child in the first place if they were ultimately going to kill it.

3) I'm sure parents (presumably "Christian parents" in this case) want to see their children succeed in life but that shouldn't mean putting them before God i.e. worshiping them instead.

To elaborate on 1) I meant parents should teach there children to repent for committing sins
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.
YYW
Posts: 36,286
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9/8/2013 8:19:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

Well said.
Tsar of DDO
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/8/2013 8:27:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 8:19:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

Well said.

Thank you.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/8/2013 8:39:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

That's all well and good but when that's weighed against the very real possibility or even likelihood that one's child may end up going to hell for all eternity I think the latter consideration clearly wins out. Why would loving parents not kill their child if they a) believed that their child had a chance to spend an eternity in hell and b) killing them before they have the chance to royally screw things up for themselves guarantees them eternal bliss?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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9/8/2013 9:39:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 6:00:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

this is the stupidest thing i have ever seen

Under your logic we should abort as many babies as possible since they (well at least we think/hope) will go to Heaven.

You can obviously see how flawed this is.
Nolite Timere
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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9/8/2013 9:41:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 8:19:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

Well said.
Nolite Timere
rjohnson741
Posts: 215
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9/8/2013 9:58:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 9:41:12 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:19:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

Well said.

Then it would seem, deep down inside, most Christians do not believe in eternal torment or eternal seperation.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/8/2013 10:31:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 9:58:32 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 9:41:12 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:19:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

Well said.

Then it would seem, deep down inside, most Christians do not believe in eternal torment or eternal seperation.

This. Most here seem to be skirting the actual issue.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/8/2013 10:35:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I remember confronting a christian nut on these forums about how if aborted babies go to heaven, shouldn't it be a moral imperative to kill all babies? Didn't get much of a reply.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/8/2013 10:57:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 8:39:20 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

That's all well and good but when that's weighed against the very real possibility or even likelihood that one's child may end up going to hell for all eternity I think the latter consideration clearly wins out. Why would loving parents not kill their child if they a) believed that their child had a chance to spend an eternity in hell and b) killing them before they have the chance to royally screw things up for themselves guarantees them eternal bliss?

In between birth and the afterlife, there are an awful lot of wonderful things that God wants us to experience as we search for what purpose He wants us to fulfill. The world is a truly beautiful place, and life, love, family, friendships all make it even more enjoyable, and are meant to draw us closer to Him, since they are His gifts to us. If we are lucky enough to discover our purpose, then we have lived a complete and rewarding life, enjoying the blessings we were given, and fulfilling God's purpose for us.

When we live life as God intended, His presence is obvious and so denying Him is not an option. It's when we try to blaze our own path that things get difficult and His presence is questioned. That's why it's important to raise children knowing God, and teaching them that He has shown us the easiest and most fulfilling path for our lives. Killing a child not only violates God's commandments to us, but also deprives the child of all the beauty and wonder that life itself has in store. Part of the glory of Heaven, I believe, is having done what is necessary to get there. When you kill a child, you take away part of the glory that God meant for that child to have.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/8/2013 11:08:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 9:58:32 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 9:41:12 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:19:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

Well said.

Then it would seem, deep down inside, most Christians do not believe in eternal torment or eternal seperation.

That's not the case, at all. I was allowed to live my life and exercise my God-given free will to decide whether to follow God or pursue another path. Why would I deprive my own children of that same privilege?? God gave everyone free will and He didn't give me the authority to take it away from anyone.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/8/2013 11:12:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 10:35:09 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I remember confronting a christian nut on these forums about how if aborted babies go to heaven, shouldn't it be a moral imperative to kill all babies? Didn't get much of a reply.

It's such an absurd thought that I'd be willing to bet that he thought you were the nutjob. :)
rjohnson741
Posts: 215
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9/8/2013 11:13:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 10:57:19 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:39:20 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

That's all well and good but when that's weighed against the very real possibility or even likelihood that one's child may end up going to hell for all eternity I think the latter consideration clearly wins out. Why would loving parents not kill their child if they a) believed that their child had a chance to spend an eternity in hell and b) killing them before they have the chance to royally screw things up for themselves guarantees them eternal bliss?

In between birth and the afterlife, there are an awful lot of wonderful things that God wants us to experience as we search for what purpose He wants us to fulfill. The world is a truly beautiful place, and life, love, family, friendships all make it even more enjoyable, and are meant to draw us closer to Him, since they are His gifts to us. If we are lucky enough to discover our purpose, then we have lived a complete and rewarding life, enjoying the blessings we were given, and fulfilling God's purpose for us.

When we live life as God intended, His presence is obvious and so denying Him is not an option. It's when we try to blaze our own path that things get difficult and His presence is questioned. That's why it's important to raise children knowing God, and teaching them that He has shown us the easiest and most fulfilling path for our lives. Killing a child not only violates God's commandments to us, but also deprives the child of all the beauty and wonder that life itself has in store. Part of the glory of Heaven, I believe, is having done what is necessary to get there. When you kill a child, you take away part of the glory that God meant for that child to have.

But most christians believe in eternal torment, free will, and most of humanity ending up in eternal hell.
This means when a child grows up, there is the very strong possibly they will use their free will and reject God thus ending up eternally burning.
But babies who die in infancy are assured of going to heaven.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/8/2013 11:22:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 11:13:22 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 10:57:19 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:39:20 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

That's all well and good but when that's weighed against the very real possibility or even likelihood that one's child may end up going to hell for all eternity I think the latter consideration clearly wins out. Why would loving parents not kill their child if they a) believed that their child had a chance to spend an eternity in hell and b) killing them before they have the chance to royally screw things up for themselves guarantees them eternal bliss?

In between birth and the afterlife, there are an awful lot of wonderful things that God wants us to experience as we search for what purpose He wants us to fulfill. The world is a truly beautiful place, and life, love, family, friendships all make it even more enjoyable, and are meant to draw us closer to Him, since they are His gifts to us. If we are lucky enough to discover our purpose, then we have lived a complete and rewarding life, enjoying the blessings we were given, and fulfilling God's purpose for us.

When we live life as God intended, His presence is obvious and so denying Him is not an option. It's when we try to blaze our own path that things get difficult and His presence is questioned. That's why it's important to raise children knowing God, and teaching them that He has shown us the easiest and most fulfilling path for our lives. Killing a child not only violates God's commandments to us, but also deprives the child of all the beauty and wonder that life itself has in store. Part of the glory of Heaven, I believe, is having done what is necessary to get there. When you kill a child, you take away part of the glory that God meant for that child to have.

But most christians believe in eternal torment, free will, and most of humanity ending up in eternal hell.
This means when a child grows up, there is the very strong possibly they will use their free will and reject God thus ending up eternally burning.
But babies who die in infancy are assured of going to heaven.

Yes, I understand all that, but as a father it's my job to teach, guide, and lead by example, not to just kill them. That's just an absurd thought, and a terrible argument to use against eternal separation or torment.
leojm
Posts: 1,825
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9/8/2013 11:27:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Holy Shlt. damn, that's like extremes there.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/8/2013 11:51:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 10:57:19 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:39:20 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

That's all well and good but when that's weighed against the very real possibility or even likelihood that one's child may end up going to hell for all eternity I think the latter consideration clearly wins out. Why would loving parents not kill their child if they a) believed that their child had a chance to spend an eternity in hell and b) killing them before they have the chance to royally screw things up for themselves guarantees them eternal bliss?

In between birth and the afterlife, there are an awful lot of wonderful things that God wants us to experience as we search for what purpose He wants us to fulfill. The world is a truly beautiful place, and life, love, family, friendships all make it even more enjoyable, and are meant to draw us closer to Him, since they are His gifts to us. If we are lucky enough to discover our purpose, then we have lived a complete and rewarding life, enjoying the blessings we were given, and fulfilling God's purpose for us.

When we live life as God intended, His presence is obvious and so denying Him is not an option. It's when we try to blaze our own path that things get difficult and His presence is questioned. That's why it's important to raise children knowing God, and teaching them that He has shown us the easiest and most fulfilling path for our lives. Killing a child not only violates God's commandments to us, but also deprives the child of all the beauty and wonder that life itself has in store. Part of the glory of Heaven, I believe, is having done what is necessary to get there. When you kill a child, you take away part of the glory that God meant for that child to have.

You. Are. Ignoring. The. Point. You're just talking around it.

For one, lot's of people have terrible lives in between birth and afterlife and certainly don't get to experience all of those wonderful things. That is strictly irrelevant to the point, though.

For two, all of that pales in comparison to and is paltry when weighted against and eternity of mental and/or physical torment. Suppose that you believed that your child had a very strong chance of going to hell, but, on the other hand, you can guarantee that they will experience eternal bliss. Why not go with the sure guarantee. When you truly love someone you always want what is in their best interest, how is that not in their best interest?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Lordknukle
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9/9/2013 8:16:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 11:12:36 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 10:35:09 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I remember confronting a christian nut on these forums about how if aborted babies go to heaven, shouldn't it be a moral imperative to kill all babies? Didn't get much of a reply.

It's such an absurd thought that I'd be willing to bet that he thought you were the nutjob. :)

Not really. Every Christian I've talked to believes that aborted babies or babies who die young automatically go to heaven. Killing them is just a logical extension of that idea.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/9/2013 8:40:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 11:51:10 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/8/2013 10:57:19 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:39:20 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/8/2013 8:18:47 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 5:43:15 PM, Atrag wrote:
Dying and going to the kingdom of heaven is the ultimate goal. It is the best thing you can imagine for your child. Every minute your child lives they risk committing a sin and going to hell. Of course it is not very Christian to kill but if you valued the happiness of your children more than being a good Christian, should you kill your children? If a parent can guarantee their child eternal happiness, why not do it?

Children are a blessing from God, and each person plays a particular role in our existence here on earth. Taking a human life is depriving that person of the chance to fulfill God's purpose for their life, and is wrong on several levels.

That's all well and good but when that's weighed against the very real possibility or even likelihood that one's child may end up going to hell for all eternity I think the latter consideration clearly wins out. Why would loving parents not kill their child if they a) believed that their child had a chance to spend an eternity in hell and b) killing them before they have the chance to royally screw things up for themselves guarantees them eternal bliss?

In between birth and the afterlife, there are an awful lot of wonderful things that God wants us to experience as we search for what purpose He wants us to fulfill. The world is a truly beautiful place, and life, love, family, friendships all make it even more enjoyable, and are meant to draw us closer to Him, since they are His gifts to us. If we are lucky enough to discover our purpose, then we have lived a complete and rewarding life, enjoying the blessings we were given, and fulfilling God's purpose for us.

When we live life as God intended, His presence is obvious and so denying Him is not an option. It's when we try to blaze our own path that things get difficult and His presence is questioned. That's why it's important to raise children knowing God, and teaching them that He has shown us the easiest and most fulfilling path for our lives. Killing a child not only violates God's commandments to us, but also deprives the child of all the beauty and wonder that life itself has in store. Part of the glory of Heaven, I believe, is having done what is necessary to get there. When you kill a child, you take away part of the glory that God meant for that child to have.

You. Are. Ignoring. The. Point. You're just talking around it.

No I'm not ignoring it, but it sounds like you consider this a much more valid argument than it actually is. I explained why a Christian would not think it a valid option, or in the best interest of his child, to murder it. Killing a child is to interfere with God's plan for the life of that person.

For one, lot's of people have terrible lives in between birth and afterlife and certainly don't get to experience all of those wonderful things. That is strictly irrelevant to the point, though.

For two, all of that pales in comparison to and is paltry when weighted against and eternity of mental and/or physical torment. Suppose that you believed that your child had a very strong chance of going to hell, but, on the other hand, you can guarantee that they will experience eternal bliss. Why not go with the sure guarantee. When you truly love someone you always want what is in their best interest, how is that not in their best interest?
medic0506
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9/9/2013 8:43:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/9/2013 8:16:09 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/8/2013 11:12:36 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/8/2013 10:35:09 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I remember confronting a christian nut on these forums about how if aborted babies go to heaven, shouldn't it be a moral imperative to kill all babies? Didn't get much of a reply.

It's such an absurd thought that I'd be willing to bet that he thought you were the nutjob. :)

Not really. Every Christian I've talked to believes that aborted babies or babies who die young automatically go to heaven. Killing them is just a logical extension of that idea.

"Killing them is just a logical extension"

lol...Like I said, he would be justified in thinking anyone making that claim is a nutjob.