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Is God needed to explain the universe?

bornofgod
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9/16/2013 12:06:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

God needed the flesh called saints to reveal His invisible knowledge within their mind. From this hidden knowledge, He had His saints write and speak in their own native tongue to help us understand our invisible created existence within His mind, where all God's creation is.

There's no such thing as a universe. It's only an illusion formed by invisible wavelengths of energy that are processed by the brains of God's invisible beings. Brains are invisible energy, also, but it's what makes up our invisible "being".

Wavelengths of energy are the lowest form of information that exists. This information has to be processed by our brain in order to give us defined worlds to experience. Our dreams are just as believable a world as the one we awaken to each morning, except a dream is individualized where this world we all live in is a dream we all share together.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/16/2013 12:09:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:06:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

God needed the flesh called saints to reveal His invisible knowledge within their mind. From this hidden knowledge, He had His saints write and speak in their own native tongue to help us understand our invisible created existence within His mind, where all God's creation is.

There's no such thing as a universe. It's only an illusion formed by invisible wavelengths of energy that are processed by the brains of God's invisible beings. Brains are invisible energy, also, but it's what makes up our invisible "being".

Wavelengths of energy are the lowest form of information that exists. This information has to be processed by our brain in order to give us defined worlds to experience. Our dreams are just as believable a world as the one we awaken to each morning, except a dream is individualized where this world we all live in is a dream we all share together.

If what you say is true and this is a imagination of the brain, then why do we all experience the same imagination and experience the same world? Are we all one brain?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/16/2013 12:16:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:09:07 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:06:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

God needed the flesh called saints to reveal His invisible knowledge within their mind. From this hidden knowledge, He had His saints write and speak in their own native tongue to help us understand our invisible created existence within His mind, where all God's creation is.

There's no such thing as a universe. It's only an illusion formed by invisible wavelengths of energy that are processed by the brains of God's invisible beings. Brains are invisible energy, also, but it's what makes up our invisible "being".

Wavelengths of energy are the lowest form of information that exists. This information has to be processed by our brain in order to give us defined worlds to experience. Our dreams are just as believable a world as the one we awaken to each morning, except a dream is individualized where this world we all live in is a dream we all share together.

If what you say is true and this is a imagination of the brain, then why do we all experience the same imagination and experience the same world? Are we all one brain?

Our brain is what makes us a "being" in the mind of God. I never said we're in the brain of God. I said we're all in His mind, which has nothing to do with the brain we're created as.

Since we're all in the mind of our Creator as His thoughts, we can only believe the created worlds He gives us to experience. The world we live in today is created as a delusion, which means He needed a contrast of thoughts in order to connect with His invisible servant ( Christ ) and reveal who we are while experiencing life as His chosen visible prophets and saints.

We're all made invisible wavelengths of energy, which is like information stored on a CD-Rom to be read by a computer processor ( brain ) into defined worlds we understand.

This means that what we see is only an illusion made by processing energy ( information ) into other energy ( information ) that we can understand.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/16/2013 12:20:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Born of God, you haven't explained why the universe cannot exist unless God does without already presupposing your conclusions.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/16/2013 12:21:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:16:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:09:07 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:06:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

God needed the flesh called saints to reveal His invisible knowledge within their mind. From this hidden knowledge, He had His saints write and speak in their own native tongue to help us understand our invisible created existence within His mind, where all God's creation is.

There's no such thing as a universe. It's only an illusion formed by invisible wavelengths of energy that are processed by the brains of God's invisible beings. Brains are invisible energy, also, but it's what makes up our invisible "being".

Wavelengths of energy are the lowest form of information that exists. This information has to be processed by our brain in order to give us defined worlds to experience. Our dreams are just as believable a world as the one we awaken to each morning, except a dream is individualized where this world we all live in is a dream we all share together.

If what you say is true and this is a imagination of the brain, then why do we all experience the same imagination and experience the same world? Are we all one brain?

Our brain is what makes us a "being" in the mind of God. I never said we're in the brain of God. I said we're all in His mind, which has nothing to do with the brain we're created as.

Since we're all in the mind of our Creator as His thoughts, we can only believe the created worlds He gives us to experience. The world we live in today is created as a delusion, which means He needed a contrast of thoughts in order to connect with His invisible servant ( Christ ) and reveal who we are while experiencing life as His chosen visible prophets and saints.

We're all made invisible wavelengths of energy, which is like information stored on a CD-Rom to be read by a computer processor ( brain ) into defined worlds we understand.

This means that what we see is only an illusion made by processing energy ( information ) into other energy ( information ) that we can understand.

So, I guess Genesis stating that God formed the heavens and earth, formed man from the dust, and Jesus himself walking on earth are all delusions. I guess you talking about believers and non-believers are useless as well since we all are in God's mind and technically cannot disbelieve Him anyway with Him wanting us too. I guess preaching to others and passing the gospel is useless as well because hey it is an illusion anyway.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/16/2013 12:28:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:21:28 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:16:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:09:07 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:06:26 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

God needed the flesh called saints to reveal His invisible knowledge within their mind. From this hidden knowledge, He had His saints write and speak in their own native tongue to help us understand our invisible created existence within His mind, where all God's creation is.

There's no such thing as a universe. It's only an illusion formed by invisible wavelengths of energy that are processed by the brains of God's invisible beings. Brains are invisible energy, also, but it's what makes up our invisible "being".

Wavelengths of energy are the lowest form of information that exists. This information has to be processed by our brain in order to give us defined worlds to experience. Our dreams are just as believable a world as the one we awaken to each morning, except a dream is individualized where this world we all live in is a dream we all share together.

If what you say is true and this is a imagination of the brain, then why do we all experience the same imagination and experience the same world? Are we all one brain?

Our brain is what makes us a "being" in the mind of God. I never said we're in the brain of God. I said we're all in His mind, which has nothing to do with the brain we're created as.

Since we're all in the mind of our Creator as His thoughts, we can only believe the created worlds He gives us to experience. The world we live in today is created as a delusion, which means He needed a contrast of thoughts in order to connect with His invisible servant ( Christ ) and reveal who we are while experiencing life as His chosen visible prophets and saints.

We're all made invisible wavelengths of energy, which is like information stored on a CD-Rom to be read by a computer processor ( brain ) into defined worlds we understand.

This means that what we see is only an illusion made by processing energy ( information ) into other energy ( information ) that we can understand.

So, I guess Genesis stating that God formed the heavens and earth, formed man from the dust, and Jesus himself walking on earth are all delusions. I guess you talking about believers and non-believers are useless as well since we all are in God's mind and technically cannot disbelieve Him anyway with Him wanting us too. I guess preaching to others and passing the gospel is useless as well because hey it is an illusion anyway.

Everything that is visible is an illusion. Everything that is invisible is God's thoughts within His mind. Heaven is invisible and Earth is visible.

If you listen to my testimonies, then you were chosen by our Creator to hear Him speak to you. This is the only way you can learn about the past, present and future. If you don't listen, then God made you an unbeliever during this first age and it makes no difference what I write or speak to you.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/16/2013 12:34:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:28:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Everything that is visible is an illusion. Everything that is invisible is God's thoughts within His mind. Heaven is invisible and Earth is visible.

So, Genesis is an illusion and cannot be taken serious at all, in fact the majority of the Bible is upon the earth and in fact a illusion. Just go ahead and say it, you are against the Bible!

If you listen to my testimonies,

Your testimony opposes the Bible.

; then you were chosen by our Creator to hear Him speak to you.

I can hear Him through His Word and Spirit. Not a some guy how opposes His Word and obviously has not His spirit.

This is the only way you can learn about the past, present and future.

No, I learn that from God's Word.

If you don't listen, then God made you an unbeliever during this first age and it makes no difference what I write or speak to you.

Until you follow the Word of God and speak His Word it really does not matter what you say because it is meaningless to me.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?
bornofgod
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9/16/2013 12:36:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:32:03 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Can I get some serious answers please? BornofGod just states things like they are facts with no evidence or reasoning....

Why would I need evidence when I was created to speak for our Creator from His stored thoughts called wavelengths of energy?

No man can see these thoughts I speak from so there is no evidence. You Christians and atheists need evidence but there is none in the mind of our Creator.

The universe and our flesh doesn't exist. They're only illusions formed by processed wavelengths of energy.
bornofgod
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9/16/2013 12:38:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:34:38 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:28:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Everything that is visible is an illusion. Everything that is invisible is God's thoughts within His mind. Heaven is invisible and Earth is visible.

So, Genesis is an illusion and cannot be taken serious at all, in fact the majority of the Bible is upon the earth and in fact a illusion. Just go ahead and say it, you are against the Bible!

If you listen to my testimonies,

Your testimony opposes the Bible.

; then you were chosen by our Creator to hear Him speak to you.

I can hear Him through His Word and Spirit. Not a some guy how opposes His Word and obviously has not His spirit.

This is the only way you can learn about the past, present and future.

No, I learn that from God's Word.

If you don't listen, then God made you an unbeliever during this first age and it makes no difference what I write or speak to you.

Until you follow the Word of God and speak His Word it really does not matter what you say because it is meaningless to me.

The Bible is NOT the word of God. The original writings by us prophets and saints are only testimonies by us who are created as the invisible "Word of God".

You're created within us but your flesh blocks you from knowing who you are or who our Creator is because you cannot see any invisible knowledge that we possess.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/16/2013 12:42:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning?

If you are asking me if I believe that either the universe has a finite past (13.7 billion years), or an infinite past, I would say "yes". That is self-evidently a true dichotomy.

And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

Because there would never be a chance for it not to happen. Only if there was a point at which there was no universe, could we ask "why is would a universe just spring up?".
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe. However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe? This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/16/2013 1:01:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:43:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I'm just going to ignore BornOfGod, Stubs actually has a head on his shoulders and isn't bat sh*t crazy.

Stubs is a liar. It's much easier for the liars of this world to listen to lies instead of the Truth, which happens to be our Creator.
bornofgod
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9/16/2013 1:02:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe. However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe? This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.

I told you that the universe is NOT real you fool. It's only an illusion that comes from processed energy.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/16/2013 1:04:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:02:57 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe. However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe? This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.

I told you that the universe is NOT real you fool. It's only an illusion that comes from processed energy.

I got you the first time, but where is your evidence? All I see are bare assertions.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/16/2013 1:09:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:04:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 1:02:57 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe. However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe? This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.

I told you that the universe is NOT real you fool. It's only an illusion that comes from processed energy.

I got you the first time, but where is your evidence? All I see are bare assertions.

When I tell a stupid person that there is no evidence in the invisible Creator and that what they see is only illusions, the stupid person asks me this question, "Where is your evidence"?.

I can't answer a stupid person's questions.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/16/2013 1:09:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:09:07 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 1:04:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 1:02:57 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe. However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe? This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.

I told you that the universe is NOT real you fool. It's only an illusion that comes from processed energy.

I got you the first time, but where is your evidence? All I see are bare assertions.

When I tell a stupid person that there is no evidence in the invisible Creator and that what they see is only illusions, the stupid person asks me this question, "Where is your evidence"?.

I can't answer a stupid person's questions.

All you have done is confirmed my prior convictions with your post, thank you.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/16/2013 1:10:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:02:57 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe. However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe? This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.

I told you that the universe is NOT real you fool. It's only an illusion that comes from processed energy.

Proverbs 9:7
He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

Proverbs 9:8
Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
bornofgod
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9/16/2013 1:11:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:09:50 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 1:09:07 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 1:04:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 1:02:57 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe. However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe? This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.

I told you that the universe is NOT real you fool. It's only an illusion that comes from processed energy.

I got you the first time, but where is your evidence? All I see are bare assertions.

When I tell a stupid person that there is no evidence in the invisible Creator and that what they see is only illusions, the stupid person asks me this question, "Where is your evidence"?.

I can't answer a stupid person's questions.

All you have done is confirmed my prior convictions with your post, thank you.

All you've done is confirm the lies in your mind that you're born with in this world. I can't fix that for you but our Creator will when He kills your flesh soon.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/16/2013 1:12:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:42:59 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning?

If you are asking me if I believe that either the universe has a finite past (13.7 billion years), or an infinite past, I would say "yes". That is self-evidently a true dichotomy.

Is that not proven false by the law of non -contradiction? 13.7 years would be a finite amount of time. An infinite past is, well, infinite. And can something be both finite and infinite? It seems like that is the proposition you are putting forth.

And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

Because there would never be a chance for it not to happen. Only if there was a point at which there was no universe, could we ask "why is would a universe just spring up?".

Do you believe there was a point in which there was no universe?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/16/2013 1:14:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:12:13 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:42:59 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning?

If you are asking me if I believe that either the universe has a finite past (13.7 billion years), or an infinite past, I would say "yes". That is self-evidently a true dichotomy.

Is that not proven false by the law of non -contradiction? 13.7 years would be a finite amount of time. An infinite past is, well, infinite. And can something be both finite and infinite? It seems like that is the proposition you are putting forth.

Huh? lol I'm agreeing with you, Stubs. Either the universe has a finite past, or an infinite past. Only one of them can be true... I believe the universe has a finite past.


And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

Because there would never be a chance for it not to happen. Only if there was a point at which there was no universe, could we ask "why is would a universe just spring up?".

Do you believe there was a point in which there was no universe?

No, I do not.
stubs
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9/16/2013 1:14:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe.

However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe?

Don't you have to then assume that "at first" means eternal? Or you would have to believe that "at first" means some random time in which this first state of the universe came into being.

This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/16/2013 1:17:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:14:43 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:47:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning? And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

I deny that that the universe came from nothing, and deny God created it. If the universe came from nothing, then at first there is absolutely nothing, then there is a first state of the universe. If God created it, then at first there is God, then the first state of the universe.

However, why not just as assume that at first there was a first state of the universe?

Don't you have to then assume that "at first" means eternal?

Nope.

Or you would have to believe that "at first" means some random time in which this first state of the universe came into being.

I don't believe the universe came into being. If the universe came into being, then by necessity, it must have been out of being. I deny the universe was ever out of being. Thus, even if the universe had a starting point 13.7 years ago, that doesn't mean it came into being.


This way, we cut out "nothing" and "God" from the equation.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/16/2013 1:17:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:14:36 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 1:12:13 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:42:59 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 9/16/2013 12:35:39 PM, stubs wrote:
At 9/16/2013 11:58:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If so, explain how...

Do you agree or disagree with the statement that either the universe needs to be eternal, or at some point have a beginning?

If you are asking me if I believe that either the universe has a finite past (13.7 billion years), or an infinite past, I would say "yes". That is self-evidently a true dichotomy.

Is that not proven false by the law of non -contradiction? 13.7 years would be a finite amount of time. An infinite past is, well, infinite. And can something be both finite and infinite? It seems like that is the proposition you are putting forth.

Huh? lol I'm agreeing with you, Stubs. Either the universe has a finite past, or an infinite past. Only one of them can be true... I believe the universe has a finite past.


And I know some people have said there was no point in which the universe did not exist because time was not created then, but as far as I can tell all that does is push back the question. Why would time, or the universe have started at all in that case?

Because there would never be a chance for it not to happen. Only if there was a point at which there was no universe, could we ask "why is would a universe just spring up?".

Do you believe there was a point in which there was no universe?

No, I do not.

I see that you found the perfect liar to listen to. All Christians and atheists need liars to speak with because they have no Truth to understand anything else.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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9/16/2013 1:17:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/16/2013 1:14:36 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Huh? lol I'm agreeing with you, Stubs. Either the universe has a finite past, or an infinite past. Only one of them can be true... I believe the universe has a finite past.

I apologize for misunderstanding what you wrote. If you believe it has a finite past, how do you propose it came into being?

Do you believe there was a point in which there was no universe?

No, I do not.

If you say there was not a point in which there is no universe, then is that not the same as saying there was always a universe which would imply an infinite universe? Which is exactly the idea you rejected above?