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"Spirituality" Is Silly

GarretKadeDupre
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9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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9/17/2013 4:29:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 4:26:35 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Do you know what a non-sequitur is?

Do you know the implications of having psychosis and spirituality erased by the same pill?
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/17/2013 4:36:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 4:26:35 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Do you know what a non-sequitur is?

more specifically, the argument is circular.

but regardless, he's right. What exists in the world can only be determined empirically, or inductively with premises derived from observation. So anything postulated that doesn't exist within those parameters is the preposterous invention of someone's imagination - spirituality is one such invention.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/17/2013 5:02:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 4:36:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2013 4:26:35 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Do you know what a non-sequitur is?

more specifically, the argument is circular.

but regardless, he's right. What exists in the world can only be determined empirically, or inductively with premises derived from observation. So anything postulated that doesn't exist within those parameters is the preposterous invention of someone's imagination - spirituality is one such invention.

I don't see how it matters. I think it's easy to confuse "religion" with speculation on what happens after we die, and supernatural stuff. I wouldn't say that. I don't see life after death as much of a religious issue, and can't care about supernatural speculation.

Suppose that the psychosis-inducing medication is twisting your brain in ways that inspire a sort of religiosity. Why wouldn't that count? Sometimes it is hard to see the "deeper meaning" in everyday life. Why can't we let things like that help us appreciate existence a little more?
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/17/2013 5:29:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

Mine don't. Mine come from the heart and then I use my brain to realize why and how.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

The drug suppose to stop delusions, not cause them. Are you maintaing that everyone who takes them has no spiritual feeling or connection with God while on them? If so, Show some cases.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Give a example!

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

I must a deluded then. I think though it may be you would is deluding themselves. Are you on anti-psychotic medication yourself?
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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9/17/2013 6:06:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 5:02:54 PM, Beverlee wrote:
I don't see how it matters. I think it's easy to confuse "religion" with speculation on what happens after we die, and supernatural stuff. I wouldn't say that. I don't see life after death as much of a religious issue, and can't care about supernatural speculation.

Suppose that the psychosis-inducing medication is twisting your brain in ways that inspire a sort of religiosity. Why wouldn't that count? Sometimes it is hard to see the "deeper meaning" in everyday life. Why can't we let things like that help us appreciate existence a little more?

I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing. My point was that subjective sensations of the supernatural do nothing to prove the existence of God, since they can be erased with medication and you posit that they can also be caused my drugs as well.

At 9/17/2013 5:29:37 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

Mine don't. Mine come from the heart and then I use my brain to realize why and how.

You don't think or feel emotions with your heart. Did you fail biology in high school?


This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

The drug suppose to stop delusions, not cause them. Are you maintaing that everyone who takes them has no spiritual feeling or connection with God while on them? If so, Show some cases.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant to say that taking an anti-psychotic will render efforts to feel a connection to God as FUTILE.

With a high enough dose of the right anti-psychotic, yes, anybody will lose their ability to feel spirituality or a sense of connection to a supernatural being.


Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Give a example!

I'm not recommending you take drugs, but it's easily demonstrable.


Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

Are you on anti-psychotic medication yourself?

I'm not the one who worships an imaginary person in the sky. Are you taking any?
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/17/2013 6:12:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
He doesn't meant heart as in the organ you dumb@ss
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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9/17/2013 6:23:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 6:12:52 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
He doesn't meant heart as in the organ you dumb@ss

Well since this topic involves discussing how emotions are correlated to neuroscience, using metaphors such as 'the heart' are hardly appropriate and only add to confusion.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/17/2013 6:33:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 6:23:09 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 9/17/2013 6:12:52 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
He doesn't meant heart as in the organ you dumb@ss

Well since this topic involves discussing how emotions are correlated to neuroscience, using metaphors such as 'the heart' are hardly appropriate and only add to confusion.

You are also applying a religious aspect to it to when you say spirituallity, thus there is nothing inappropriate about the methaphorical meaning for heart.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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9/17/2013 6:51:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 6:33:38 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/17/2013 6:23:09 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 9/17/2013 6:12:52 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
He doesn't meant heart as in the organ you dumb@ss

Well since this topic involves discussing how emotions are correlated to neuroscience, using metaphors such as 'the heart' are hardly appropriate and only add to confusion.

You are also applying a religious aspect to it to when you say spirituallity, thus there is nothing inappropriate about the methaphorical meaning for heart.

You're obviously the dumb@ss here. I did not apply a religious aspect to it; to the contrary, this thread was started as an argument AGAINST religion.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/17/2013 6:54:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 6:51:34 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 9/17/2013 6:33:38 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/17/2013 6:23:09 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 9/17/2013 6:12:52 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
He doesn't meant heart as in the organ you dumb@ss

Well since this topic involves discussing how emotions are correlated to neuroscience, using metaphors such as 'the heart' are hardly appropriate and only add to confusion.

You are also applying a religious aspect to it to when you say spirituallity, thus there is nothing inappropriate about the methaphorical meaning for heart.

You're obviously the dumb@ss here. I did not apply a religious aspect to it; to the contrary, this thread was started as an argument AGAINST religion.

It relates to religion so the heart thing still isn't inappropriate.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/17/2013 7:04:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 6:06:58 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:

Mine don't. Mine come from the heart and then I use my brain to realize why and how.

You don't think or feel emotions with your heart. Did you fail biology in high school?

I do not think when I have these feelings. Though trhey can be emotional at times most certainly not always. But your original statement fails because these feelings and emotions come from your inner core not the head or brian.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

The drug suppose to stop delusions, not cause them. Are you maintaing that everyone who takes them has no spiritual feeling or connection with God while on them? If so, Show some cases.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant to say that taking an anti-psychotic will render efforts to feel a connection to God as FUTILE.

You must have not understood, please show some cases of what you claim.

With a high enough dose of the right anti-psychotic, yes, anybody will lose their ability to feel spirituality or a sense of connection to a supernatural being.

Give some cases.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Give a example!

I'm not recommending you take drugs, but it's easily demonstrable.

So, you are coming up with this from thin-air? If not then given us a example.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

Are you on anti-psychotic medication yourself?

I'm not the one who worships an imaginary person in the sky. Are you taking any?

I as well do not worship some imaginary person in the sky. I worship a actual person that is everywhere and anywhere and not limited to the sky. This beings place would be more modernly applied as in a dimension outside and inside our own. This is also scientific and refered to as multi-dimensions.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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9/17/2013 9:19:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 7:04:20 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
At 9/17/2013 6:06:58 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:

Mine don't. Mine come from the heart and then I use my brain to realize why and how.

You don't think or feel emotions with your heart. Did you fail biology in high school?

I do not think when I have these feelings. Though trhey can be emotional at times most certainly not always. But your original statement fails because these feelings and emotions come from your inner core not the head or brian.

What is this "inner-core" that you speak of? I guarantee that I can destroy your precious little 'inner-core' with the proper trauma to your physical brain.

http://lesswrong.com...

http://www.paxilprogress.org...


This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

The drug suppose to stop delusions, not cause them. Are you maintaing that everyone who takes them has no spiritual feeling or connection with God while on them? If so, Show some cases.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant to say that taking an anti-psychotic will render efforts to feel a connection to God as FUTILE.

You must have not understood, please show some cases of what you claim.

There are no scientific, peer-reviewed studies as far as I know. I can find anecdotes, but again, you can also demonstrate this yourself by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to connect to God.

With a high enough dose of the right anti-psychotic, yes, anybody will lose their ability to feel spirituality or a sense of connection to a supernatural being.

Give some cases.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Give a example!

I'm not recommending you take drugs, but it's easily demonstrable.

So, you are coming up with this from thin-air? If not then given us a example.


Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

Are you on anti-psychotic medication yourself?

I'm not the one who worships an imaginary person in the sky. Are you taking any?

I as well do not worship some imaginary person in the sky. I worship a actual person that is everywhere and anywhere and not limited to the sky. This beings place would be more modernly applied as in a dimension outside and inside our own. This is also scientific and refered to as multi-dimensions.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
AeneasPhebe
Posts: 213
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9/17/2013 10:02:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 9:19:42 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 9/17/2013 7:04:20 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

What is this "inner-core" that you speak of? I guarantee that I can destroy your precious little 'inner-core' with the proper trauma to your physical brain.

A inner-core is the utermost part of a person, your will, a impulse, a inclination. A developed or undeveloped(You) instint. Hence, God effects it and my will becomes His.

http://lesswrong.com...

And what is this suppose to be?

http://www.paxilprogress.org...

And what does this suppose to mean?

There are no scientific, peer-reviewed studies as far as I know. I can find anecdotes, but again, you can also demonstrate this yourself by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to connect to God.

Ahh...so this is made-up, delusional, imaginary? Hmm...do you need drugs to cure that?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/17/2013 10:57:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 4:36:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2013 4:26:35 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Do you know what a non-sequitur is?

more specifically, the argument is circular.

but regardless, he's right. What exists in the world can only be determined empirically, or inductively with premises derived from observation.

That's cool. I'm not a strict empiricist when it comes to epistemology so I really have not one reason to believe this.

So anything postulated that doesn't exist within those parameters is the preposterous :invention of someone's imagination - spirituality is one such invention.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
seeu46
Posts: 578
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9/18/2013 12:07:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

This logic doesn't make sense. So drugs that alter you is the same natural alter that people see with the divine? Is this really the logic you want to use to disprove God.

Because if you think about it all our senses of sight, touch, taste, smell, hear are linked to our brain as well. There are drugs that numb you so well, that when you touch, it does not feel like it. Does that mean touching is not real? Of course not.

This logic just does not make much of a point.
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/18/2013 1:03:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

But see, since all observation and emotion originate within the mind, it seems obvious that all spirituality would also originate there as well. Even if a god were to come down and inspire you, you would still filter that inspiration through your senses.

So, I'm not really trying to agree or disagree - I'm just trying to enlarge the discussion to include that aspect. That no matter what, we only have our faculties to work with anyway... everything that we experience comes from our brain, like you said. But this can't devalue the spiritual experience, because that goes for everything.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/18/2013 1:19:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It might be silly.

But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.

Feels good. That's a plus.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/18/2013 1:32:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/18/2013 1:19:05 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It might be silly.

But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.

Feels good. That's a plus.

Feeling good is good enough...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/18/2013 7:22:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/18/2013 12:07:08 AM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

This logic doesn't make sense. So drugs that alter you is the same natural alter that people see with the divine? Is this really the logic you want to use to disprove God.

Because if you think about it all our senses of sight, touch, taste, smell, hear are linked to our brain as well. There are drugs that numb you so well, that when you touch, it does not feel like it. Does that mean touching is not real? Of course not.

This logic just does not make much of a point.

This is a pretty solid rebuttal, IMHO.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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9/18/2013 8:15:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/17/2013 5:02:54 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/17/2013 4:36:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2013 4:26:35 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Do you know what a non-sequitur is?

more specifically, the argument is circular.

but regardless, he's right. What exists in the world can only be determined empirically, or inductively with premises derived from observation. So anything postulated that doesn't exist within those parameters is the preposterous invention of someone's imagination - spirituality is one such invention.

I don't see how it matters. I think it's easy to confuse "religion" with speculation on what happens after we die, and supernatural stuff. I wouldn't say that. I don't see life after death as much of a religious issue, and can't care about supernatural speculation.

Suppose that the psychosis-inducing medication is twisting your brain in ways that inspire a sort of religiosity. Why wouldn't that count? Sometimes it is hard to see the "deeper meaning" in everyday life. Why can't we let things like that help us appreciate existence a little more?

That would be called sorcery.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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9/18/2013 1:18:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/18/2013 7:22:37 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 9/18/2013 12:07:08 AM, seeu46 wrote:
At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

At 9/17/2013 3:55:14 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Any sense of spirituality originates in the physical brain.

This can be demonstrated by taking an anti-psychotic and trying to feel a connection with God.

Funnily enough, the same drugs that treat psychosis treat spirituality.

Yes, I AM saying that all people who claim to communicate or feel in touch with a supernatural being are deluding themselves.

This logic doesn't make sense. So drugs that alter you is the same natural alter that people see with the divine? Is this really the logic you want to use to disprove God.

Because if you think about it all our senses of sight, touch, taste, smell, hear are linked to our brain as well. There are drugs that numb you so well, that when you touch, it does not feel like it. Does that mean touching is not real? Of course not.

This logic just does not make much of a point.

This is a pretty solid rebuttal, IMHO.

Yeah, I'll second that.