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God's plan

MadCornishBiker
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9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/20/2013 5:34:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

This is a very pathetic attempt by your flesh about the plan ( will ) of our Creator.

For one thing, God planned and created the delusion of this world ( the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ) as a contrast of thought in His mind to connect to His invisible servant ( Christ, also known as the "tree of Life" ) in the flesh of prophets and saint to let us know what's going on and who we are within His mind. Once this has been accomplished, which is just about over with my last testimonies before I'm killed, then this age will end according to God's plans.

The next age will be completely different without any delusional thoughts in His mind for His people to be deceived with. All you religious people are deceived with religious ideas that have nothing to do with the New Covenant that ALL God's people will be living under in the next age.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/22/2013 5:11:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?

No, it's because you are an arrogant self righteous idiot who wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit our.

Well, you did ask.
starlite68
Posts: 8
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9/22/2013 8:24:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?

Matthew 11:25 states that God revealed Bible truths to babes instead of the wise and intellectual ones. This harmonizes with the thought at 1 Corinthians 1:27 where God says he chose the foolish things of the world that he might put the wise men to shame.
You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.....
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/23/2013 5:44:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 8:24:45 PM, starlite68 wrote:
At 9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?

Matthew 11:25 states that God revealed Bible truths to babes instead of the wise and intellectual ones. This harmonizes with the thought at 1 Corinthians 1:27 where God says he chose the foolish things of the world that he might put the wise men to shame.

That is perfectly true, and is backed up by many scriptures saying things like "The wisdom of the world is foolishness with God", though I confess my favourite two are:

Luke 17:10
10 So YOU, also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU, say, "We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.""

1 Corinthians 1:26-30
26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom;

One of which you partially quote.

Are you prepared to be seen by your fellow men to fall into any of those categories above? You need to be because when you become a servant of Christ and God people will look down on you, not up to you, at least most will.

Frankly I am more than happy to be looked down on by men, because I know that God approves of me, despite my stupidity and the mistakes I make along the way.

Why?

Because he knows I love him and his son, and more than that, I love my fellow man and the opportunity to live in harmony with all men the way God intends us to do.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/23/2013 12:46:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 5:11:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?

No, it's because you are an arrogant self righteous idiot who wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit our.

Well, you did ask.

It's because you have no knowledge of God to understand what I'm writing. It's way too deep for you unbelievers to acknowledge and agree with.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/23/2013 12:49:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 8:24:45 PM, starlite68 wrote:
At 9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?

Matthew 11:25 states that God revealed Bible truths to babes instead of the wise and intellectual ones. This harmonizes with the thought at 1 Corinthians 1:27 where God says he chose the foolish things of the world that he might put the wise men to shame.

I Corinthians 1:
25: For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
27: but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
28: God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
29: so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

We saints understand the difference between the lies of worldly wise men and the Truth, who happens to be our Creator.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/23/2013 12:52:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 5:44:21 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/22/2013 8:24:45 PM, starlite68 wrote:
At 9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?

Matthew 11:25 states that God revealed Bible truths to babes instead of the wise and intellectual ones. This harmonizes with the thought at 1 Corinthians 1:27 where God says he chose the foolish things of the world that he might put the wise men to shame.

That is perfectly true, and is backed up by many scriptures saying things like "The wisdom of the world is foolishness with God", though I confess my favourite two are:

Luke 17:10
10 So YOU, also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU, say, "We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.""

1 Corinthians 1:26-30
26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom;

One of which you partially quote.

Are you prepared to be seen by your fellow men to fall into any of those categories above? You need to be because when you become a servant of Christ and God people will look down on you, not up to you, at least most will.

Frankly I am more than happy to be looked down on by men, because I know that God approves of me, despite my stupidity and the mistakes I make along the way.

Why?

Because he knows I love him and his son, and more than that, I love my fellow man and the opportunity to live in harmony with all men the way God intends us to do.

Your wisdom doesn't come from our Creator. It comes from the lies of the religious beast, which is God's plan to make men build things of this world so that He could help us saints understand His invisible Kingdom we were created as.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/23/2013 2:39:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 12:52:12 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/23/2013 5:44:21 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/22/2013 8:24:45 PM, starlite68 wrote:
At 9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?

Matthew 11:25 states that God revealed Bible truths to babes instead of the wise and intellectual ones. This harmonizes with the thought at 1 Corinthians 1:27 where God says he chose the foolish things of the world that he might put the wise men to shame.

That is perfectly true, and is backed up by many scriptures saying things like "The wisdom of the world is foolishness with God", though I confess my favourite two are:

Luke 17:10
10 So YOU, also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU, say, "We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.""

1 Corinthians 1:26-30
26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom;

One of which you partially quote.

Are you prepared to be seen by your fellow men to fall into any of those categories above? You need to be because when you become a servant of Christ and God people will look down on you, not up to you, at least most will.

Frankly I am more than happy to be looked down on by men, because I know that God approves of me, despite my stupidity and the mistakes I make along the way.

Why?

Because he knows I love him and his son, and more than that, I love my fellow man and the opportunity to live in harmony with all men the way God intends us to do.

Your wisdom doesn't come from our Creator. It comes from the lies of the religious beast, which is God's plan to make men build things of this world so that He could help us saints understand His invisible Kingdom we were created as.

That's funny, that just what the Pharisees said to Jesus.

You exalt yourself and as Jesus said, any who exalt themselves as you do will be humiliated.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/24/2013 11:13:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 2:39:29 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/23/2013 12:52:12 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/23/2013 5:44:21 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/22/2013 8:24:45 PM, starlite68 wrote:
At 9/22/2013 4:48:43 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/18/2013 1:28:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Genesis 1:26-31 And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God"s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."
29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." And it came to be so.
31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

As Verse 28 tells us mankind was created to "subdue the earth" as well as the animals. Having given Adam the Garden of Eden as a starting point, He and his progeny, with which eh was to fill the earth were to spread it earthwide so there would be plenty for all to eat.

Interestingly enough, verse 29 tells us that both man, and the animals were originally intended to be vegetarian.

If you search scriptures you will find that the first time permission to eat meat is given to man, was to Noah and his family after the flood. That was because of the shortage of vegetation, and presumably the animals , or some of them, became carnivores or omnivores at the same time.

Genesis 9:1-4 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. 2 And a fear of YOU and a terror of YOU will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into YOUR hand they are now given. 3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul"its blood"YOU must not eat.

The start of animals bring wary of man, for their own protection, and the start of meat eating on earth.

Genesis 2:16, 17 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

What sort of threat would that have been if man was going to die anyway? No threat at all.

So now we have the plan in full.

God intended the earth to be fully populated with a race of prefect humans who would live forever provided they obeyed one simple command, and would cultivate the earth and care for the animals on it.

The rest of the bible tells us what went wrong and what God planned to put it right.

However the last chapters of Revelation show us that in time his plan will succeed and everything will be brought back to how it was always intended to be.

The Challenge that Satan raised will have been tested to the full and proven wrong beyond even the remotest chance of argument so that with such a precedent set, should any other creature, human or Angelic, raise it again it will simply be "Goodnight Irene" and that one will be no more.

That was, and is God's plan.

True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road, and to set a definite time for it all to be proven, and after 6,000 years Satan cannot say he has not been given chance to try every ossib;e avenue of rebellion.

However God does not change, and neither has his ultimate plan, and it will succeed because God cannot, and will not, fail.

Why do you post something and not reply to someone who makes a comment about it? Could it be that my comment is way to deep for you to understand?

Matthew 11:25 states that God revealed Bible truths to babes instead of the wise and intellectual ones. This harmonizes with the thought at 1 Corinthians 1:27 where God says he chose the foolish things of the world that he might put the wise men to shame.

That is perfectly true, and is backed up by many scriptures saying things like "The wisdom of the world is foolishness with God", though I confess my favourite two are:

Luke 17:10
10 So YOU, also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU, say, "We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.""

1 Corinthians 1:26-30
26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom;

One of which you partially quote.

Are you prepared to be seen by your fellow men to fall into any of those categories above? You need to be because when you become a servant of Christ and God people will look down on you, not up to you, at least most will.

Frankly I am more than happy to be looked down on by men, because I know that God approves of me, despite my stupidity and the mistakes I make along the way.

Why?

Because he knows I love him and his son, and more than that, I love my fellow man and the opportunity to live in harmony with all men the way God intends us to do.

Your wisdom doesn't come from our Creator. It comes from the lies of the religious beast, which is God's plan to make men build things of this world so that He could help us saints understand His invisible Kingdom we were created as.

That's funny, that just what the Pharisees said to Jesus.

You exalt yourself and as Jesus said, any who exalt themselves as you do will be humiliated.

You need to look in a mirrow and repeat this comment.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/24/2013 12:00:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 11:13:31 AM, bornofgod wrote:


That's funny, that just what the Pharisees said to Jesus.

You exalt yourself and as Jesus said, any who exalt themselves as you do will be humiliated.

You need to look in a mirrow and repeat this comment.

I don't exalt myself like you do.., though at least I can spell mirror.

I don't claim to be a saint, a very exalted claim to make. Even the real "Saints" didn't make that claim.

I am happy with Jesus description of how his followers should regard themselves "good-for-nothing slaves"

I am also happy to be amongst those described in Paul's list of those chosen by God to serve him at 1 Corinthians 26-36 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God.

Me? I'm happy to be the lowest of the low in the eyes of men, as long as God continues to allow me to serve him in any way I can, and I certainly don;t care how any human sees me.

Are you humble enough to be seen that way? Hardly since you claim the most exalted role of all.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/24/2013 12:33:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 12:00:01 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/24/2013 11:13:31 AM, bornofgod wrote:


That's funny, that just what the Pharisees said to Jesus.

You exalt yourself and as Jesus said, any who exalt themselves as you do will be humiliated.

You need to look in a mirrow and repeat this comment.

I don't exalt myself like you do.., though at least I can spell mirror.

I don't claim to be a saint, a very exalted claim to make. Even the real "Saints" didn't make that claim.

I am happy with Jesus description of how his followers should regard themselves "good-for-nothing slaves"

I am also happy to be amongst those described in Paul's list of those chosen by God to serve him at 1 Corinthians 26-36 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God.

Me? I'm happy to be the lowest of the low in the eyes of men, as long as God continues to allow me to serve him in any way I can, and I certainly don;t care how any human sees me.

Are you humble enough to be seen that way? Hardly since you claim the most exalted role of all.

Ephesians 1
1: Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus:
2: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
9: For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ
10: as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11: In him, according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will,
12: we who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of his glory.
13: In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14: which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Jesus Christ is symbolic for the invisible Kingdom of God ( Heaven ) where ALL God's creation exists.

You have NO knowledge of God because you're not one of God's saints. You're a pathetic liar called a sinner in this age. Sinners who use the prophecies of God for their own purpose to exalt themselves and cause other sinners to believe in their stolen knowledge are called antichrists. It was antichrists who started the false religion of Christianity because they stole the spoken and written words of us saints to start their own churches. They had no idea our words come from the invisible Kingdom of God that no man can understand, unless they're chosen to be believers of our gospel, which is the created voice of God where the Truth can be heard.

Antichrists were the ones who wrote the new testament and these antichrists were religious Romans who had all the true saints killed for their testimony of the Truth in the invisible Christ that we were all created in.

You can't understand these things because you're a sinner who was chosen by our Creator to be an unbeliever of our gospel. You believe the false gospels that antichrists put together as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John but most of the information in these false gospels deceive every reader who reads them.

The only Truth you can hear in this time is from my testimonies since I'm God's last saint in this world.

Jeremiah 15:
15: Behold, I am bringing upon you a nation from afar, O house of Israel, says the LORD. It is an enduring nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language you do not know, nor can you understand what they say.

Psalm 33:
12: Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people whom he has chosen as his heritage!

1 John 4
6: We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

I Corinthians 2:
7: But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glorification.
8: None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Daniel 7
25: He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time.
26: But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end.
27: And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.'
annanicole
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9/24/2013 10:58:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road"

Anna: Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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9/25/2013 3:44:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 10:58:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road"

Anna: Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof.

The proof of it is all around you.

First, the background.

Satan laid down his first challenge in the Garden of Eden when he deceived Eve, and Adam followed her down the wrong path. Trying to avoid reliance on God (like you do, lol).

He is, in Revelation 12, finally described as "the original serpent" in confirmation of that.

God then declared the start of his plan, directly to Satan when he said, as recorded at Genesis 3: 15 And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel."

Who was "the woman"?

That is a description often applied to God's heavenly Organisation and also to his organisation on earth. Eve certainly thought it was her, but it wasn't, things weren't planned to happen that quickly, it was, in fact, the first prophecy of the coming Messiah.

Why the wounding in the heel and the head?

A wound in the heel will temporarily disable you, but a wound in the head has a potential for fatality. Stan wounded the Messiah in the heel, when he had him put to death and limited his effectiveness to a 3.5 year preaching campaign (Daniel 9).

However, by his faithfulness to death as a perfect human the Messiah actually gave Satan a serious and terminal "head wound". Whilst that wound was not immediately fatal, it has given him a "fatal wound" in that he is now certain to eb executed in God's own time.

Despite the fact that you don't believe it. This long term plan was set for 7,000 years, approximately, and we are now nearing the end of it. That is scripturally proven.

OK so now we leave the realms of scriptural evidence and rely on our compliance with John 17:3 (yes, that again, it is so important).

If we have got to know God well, we will know that he can only have had a very good, and in the long term beneficial, reason for doing so.

What could such a reason be?

Well there really is only one answer to that. God in his wisdom has realised that the obvious instant solution, destroying Satan there and then, as well as any who followed him, spirit or human, and starting again would not prevent the issue ever being raised again. Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set, he arranged for Satan to have his opportunity to prove his case, but with certain limitations which limited his power so that he could not destroy humanity himself.

That way, justice is not only done, but seen to be done, especially in the eyes of his loyal spirit beings.

The bible, in it's most basic purpose, is God's record of the progress of that plan for humanity to learn from, so that when the plan is fully accomplished, as it will inevitably be, if any should decide to emulate Satan or Adam and Eve, god can simply point to the evidence and say goodbye.

That is the guarantee of perfect peace that Christ, by has loyalty has made "yes", and will continue to do so.

When is that perfect day to arrive?

When the earth ash been cleansed of all of Satan and all his works, all the dead have been resurrected in order to give them the chance that Adam threw away for all of us, and the kingdom has been handed back to God by his son.

That is the time described in prophecies such as those prophecies of the Kingdom which you so vehemently deny, and especially in the last 3 chapters of Revelation.

We, in this time have a big advantage over any ion the past. We have seen the fulfilment of many of those prophecies, and if we have became a part of God's organisation have experienced a somewhat diluted version of what life will be like when it is all accomplished fully.

We have more information at our fingertips, from scripture, than even the Apostles had, and have seen the fulfilment of more prophecies than they ever did, including the prophesied Apostasy of the last 1900 years.

we should all study the evidence carefully and prayerfully, and ask God for the help he has promised, through his son. That way we may be saved.
annanicole
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9/25/2013 4:56:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road"

Anna: Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof.

MCB: The proof of it is all around you.

Anna: Then point it out. I surmise that it'll be about as clear as mud.

*******

MCB: "Satan laid down his first challenge in the Garden of Eden when he deceived Eve, and Adam followed her down the wrong path."

Anna: I'd like to know the scripture that refers to this narration as a "challenge". That's the point.

********

MCB: "Who was "the woman"?

That is a description often applied to God's heavenly Organisation and also to his organisation on earth. Eve certainly thought it was her, but it wasn't, things weren't planned to happen that quickly, it was, in fact, the first prophecy of the coming Messiah."

Anna: It is a Messianic prophesy, of course - and in fact the first. But the rest of your comment has the appearance of nonsense. Certainly the woman was Eve.

"And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. And unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

By the way, the statement, "That is a description often applied to God's heavenly Organisation" is wrong. Try rarely .... very rarely ... applied in such a manner.

******

MCB: "Why the wounding in the heel and the head?"

Anna: Why, the wounding of the heel refers to the crucifixion, and the wounding to Satan's head refers to the indirectly to the sinless life of Christ, but directly to the resurrection.

*****

MCB: "Despite the fact that you don't believe it. This long term plan was set for 7,000 years, approximately, and we are now nearing the end of it. That is scripturally proven."

Anna: Oh, now we get to the meat of it: the speculations! Of course! Such nonsense has not been "scripturally proven".

*****

MCB: "OK so now we leave the realms of scriptural evidence and rely on our compliance with John 17:3 (yes, that again, it is so important)."

Anna: LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooo! This means that what little you have found in the Bible - and you were wrong on some of that - is over. It's now time for some musing and speculation. Here we go!

******

MCB: "If we have got to know God well, we will know that he can only have had a very good, and in the long term beneficial, reason for doing so."

Anna: For doing what? "Doing so" doesn't mean anything.

*****

MCB: "What could such a reason be?"

Anna: A reason for what? Oh, well, I guess it doesn't matter since you are going to make it up anyhow.

*****

Oh, boy, take a look at this one:

MCB: God in his wisdom has realised that the obvious instant solution, destroying Satan there and then, as well as any who followed him, spirit or human, and starting again would not prevent the issue ever being raised again.

Anna: Destroying Satan would not have prevented it?

MCB: Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set, he arranged for Satan to have his opportunity to prove his case, but with certain limitations which limited his power so that he could not destroy humanity himself.

Anna: But that's just your own ridiculous conjecture. You offer no scripture for such outrageous claims. BornofGod does about as well.

The original question was: "Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof?" It seems that we got about 5% of the former - and some of it was irrelevent - and 95% of the usual conjecture and speculation. Who said God is worried about some "legal precedent"? Who said that the Creator of the Universe is worried about Satan "proving his case"? Sir, Satan has no case - and never did have.

*****

MCB: "That is the time described in prophecies such as those prophecies of the Kingdom which you so vehemently deny"

Anna: Yeah, like all those dozens which state that the kingdom is at hand, to shortly come to pass. Or those statements by Paul and John that they were in the kingdom?

*****

MCB: "We, in this time have a big advantage over any ion the past. We have seen the fulfilment of many of those prophecies"

Anna: Absolutely true. Those OT characters saw dimly, and knew that the Messiah and His kingdom were approaching. Even the hearers of Christ could only hear of His prophesies of the destruction of Jerusalem. Most of the apostles died without seeing it fulfilled. We have the happy privilege of looking back and verifying that the Lord had it right - down to the last detail.

*****

MCB: "We have more information at our fingertips, from scripture, than even the Apostles had, and have seen the fulfilment of more prophecies than they ever did, including the prophesied Apostasy of the last 1900 years."

Anna: Well, they had direct inspiration whereas we have the completed, all-sufficient word of God. It is true that only one apostle (if history is correct) lived to see the destruction of Jerusalem - and none actually saw the widespread apostasy that Paul prophesied. They saw the beginnings of it. They never saw the full-blown thing, though.

*****

However, the original question was never answered.

MCB: "True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road"

Anna: Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof.

You started in the Garden, provided Gen 3: 15, and then - by your own admission - pretty much left the Bible and fabricated a tall tale, and confirmed it by John 17: 3. By the way, God is not and never was seeking "true justice" regarding the cause of Satan. God did not devise this plan as some sort of deterrent against future rebellion based upon "case precedent." Nor is God concerned about His original plan for Adam and Eve, per se. God is concerned with human redemption.

I figured you were making up most of your story. I just wanted to see what it was based upon, and it seems that the majority of it is based upon ... your own notions or those of the WatchTower.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
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9/25/2013 5:12:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 3:44:38 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
MCB: Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set,

God needed an unarguable LEGAL precedent to defend what charge made by what being?? You are without a doubt INSANE.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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9/25/2013 5:18:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 5:12:04 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/25/2013 3:44:38 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
MCB: Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set,

God needed an unarguable LEGAL precedent to defend what charge made by what being?? You are without a doubt INSANE.

The challenge that no-one would serve God willingly under opposition as shown at Job 2: 4 But Satan answered Jehovah and said: "Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul. 5 For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face."

I may be insane, but apparently nothing like as insane as you are ignorant.
bulproof
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9/25/2013 5:56:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 5:18:34 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/25/2013 5:12:04 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/25/2013 3:44:38 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
MCB: Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set,

God needed an unarguable LEGAL precedent to defend what charge made by what being?? You are without a doubt INSANE.

The challenge that no-one would serve God willingly under opposition as shown at Job 2: 4 But Satan answered Jehovah and said: "Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul. 5 For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face."

I may be insane, but apparently nothing like as insane as you are ignorant.
Where was that court exactly and who was the prosecutor? WOW talk about fvcked up.
JOB this guy favoured by god got well and truly fvcked over cos god and satan were having a pissing match and this wonderful god gives him kids as a replacement for the ones that he LOVED and god took away from him, oh what a guy. It shows PERFECTLY how much this god understands of LOVE and that is absolutely NOTHING.
It is patently obvious that you and your god deserve each other. If your god exists then from his authorised biography we can easily see that he was totally insane as well.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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9/25/2013 5:59:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 4:56:04 AM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road"

Anna: Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof.

MCB: The proof of it is all around you.

Anna: Then point it out. I surmise that it'll be about as clear as mud.


*******

MCB: "Satan laid down his first challenge in the Garden of Eden when he deceived Eve, and Adam followed her down the wrong path."

Anna: I'd like to know the scripture that refers to this narration as a "challenge". That's the point.

It is not referred to as a c challenge but it clearly is if your read Job 2:4-5 But Satan answered Jehovah and said: "Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul. 5 For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face."


By the way, the statement, "That is a description often applied to God's heavenly Organisation" is wrong. Try rarely .... very rarely ... applied in such a manner.

Guess it depends on what you count as "rarely" doesn't it. With your restrictive use of language I don;t doubt you see it that way. However I suppose I should have qualified it by saying that "when God's organisation is discussed, it is frequently referred to as a woman". That's what I get for trying to be brief, I end up being too brief.


******

MCB: "Why the wounding in the heel and the head?"

Anna: Why, the wounding of the heel refers to the crucifixion, and the wounding to Satan's head refers to the indirectly to the sinless life of Christ, but directly to the resurrection.

No, it refers to the fact that Jesus proved that a perfect human could and would withstand all the persecution that came his was and remain faithful to death. He did not give all in exchange for his soul as Satan accused humanity of doing in that Job scripture. That faithfulness sealed Satan's doom when the time was due.


*****

MCB: "Despite the fact that you don't believe it. This long term plan was set for 7,000 years, approximately, and we are now nearing the end of it. That is scripturally proven."

Anna: Oh, now we get to the meat of it: the speculations! Of course! Such nonsense has not been "scripturally proven".

It has been thoroughly proven scripturally, and the record of history fits in perfectly with it.


*****

MCB: "OK so now we leave the realms of scriptural evidence and rely on our compliance with John 17:3 (yes, that again, it is so important)."

Anna: LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooo! This means that what little you have found in the Bible - and you were wrong on some of that - is over. It's now time for some musing and speculation. Here we go!

No, they were not wrong on the prophecy, just on the timing of things which scripture leaves untimed that will follow it in God's good time.

Mock all you like, but God will have the last word, through his organisations, heavenly and earthly.


******

MCB: "If we have got to know God well, we will know that he can only have had a very good, and in the long term beneficial, reason for doing so."

Anna: For doing what? "Doing so" doesn't mean anything.

Now who is making things meaningless. It means precisely what it says in the context of the discussion.


*****

MCB: "What could such a reason be?"

Anna: A reason for what? Oh, well, I guess it doesn't matter since you are going to make it up anyhow.

I make nothing up, as you will find out one day.
MadCornishBiker
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9/25/2013 6:13:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago

*****

Oh, boy, take a look at this one:

MCB: God in his wisdom has realised that the obvious instant solution, destroying Satan there and then, as well as any who followed him, spirit or human, and starting again would not prevent the issue ever being raised again.

Anna: Destroying Satan would not have prevented it?

No, it wouldn't have prevented it recurring in the future, no, because another spirit creature could in future have said something like "ah, but what if.....? "This way all possible avenues have been explored and proven not to work.

All the instant destruction of Satan would have proved was that God had the power to do it, which all knew anyway. It would not have proved he was right to do so.

MCB: Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set, he arranged for Satan to have his opportunity to prove his case, but with certain limitations which limited his power so that he could not destroy humanity himself.

Anna: But that's just your own ridiculous conjecture. You offer no scripture for such outrageous claims. BornofGod does about as well.

No it is not ridiculous conjecture, it is knowledge of God at work.


The original question was: "Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof?" It seems that we got about 5% of the former - and some of it was irrelevant - and 95% of the usual conjecture and speculation. Who said God is worried about some "legal precedent"? Who said that the Creator of the Universe is worried about Satan "proving his case"? Sir, Satan has no case - and never did have.

Noting was irrelevant, it proved background information.


*****

MCB: "That is the time described in prophecies such as those prophecies of the Kingdom which you so vehemently deny"

Anna: Yeah, like all those dozens which state that the kingdom is at hand, to shortly come to pass. Or those statements by Paul and John that they were in the kingdom?

They were in the kingdom to the extent it was established at that point in time, as am I at this later stage.

Shame you don't wish to join us.


*****

MCB: "We, in this time have a big advantage over any ion the past. We have seen the fulfilment of many of those prophecies"

Anna: Absolutely true. Those OT characters saw dimly, and knew that the Messiah and His kingdom were approaching. Even the hearers of Christ could only hear of His prophesies of the destruction of Jerusalem. Most of the apostles died without seeing it fulfilled. We have the happy privilege of looking back and verifying that the Lord had it right - down to the last detail.

Yes and he ash the rest of it, which is yet to come, right also, even though you don;t believe what scripture tells us about it.


*****

MCB: "We have more information at our fingertips, from scripture, than even the Apostles had, and have seen the fulfilment of more prophecies than they ever did, including the prophesied Apostasy of the last 1900 years."

Anna: Well, they had direct inspiration whereas we have the completed, all-sufficient word of God. It is true that only one apostle (if history is correct) lived to see the destruction of Jerusalem - and none actually saw the widespread apostasy that Paul prophesied. They saw the beginnings of it. They never saw the full-blown thing, though.

*****

However, the original question was never answered.

MCB: "True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road"

Anna: Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof.

You started in the Garden, provided Gen 3: 15, and then - by your own admission - pretty much left the Bible and fabricated a tall tale, and confirmed it by John 17: 3. By the way, God is not and never was seeking "true justice" regarding the cause of Satan. God did not devise this plan as some sort of deterrent against future rebellion based upon "case precedent." Nor is God concerned about His original plan for Adam and Eve, per se. God is concerned with human redemption.

No I fabricated nothing, I spoke through my knowledge of God and his personality, granted me through holy spirit, as James said it would be, and as both God and Christ promised to all Christ's true followers.

But of course you don;t believe their promises, probably because you know you don;t get them but think that you should.

You believe and teach that scripture is nothing more than history, but you are wrong, fatally wrong to yourself and any who listen to you.
.

I figured you were making up most of your story. I just wanted to see what it was based upon, and it seems that the majority of it is based upon ... your own notions or those of the WatchTower.

Neither, it is based on knowledge of God as provided through scripture.

It only has the appearance of nonsense to those applying human wisdom, which as God clearly states is actually foolishness.

To those of us who rely on God for our wisdom it is very clearly true

James 1:5-8 So, if any one of YOU is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.

God always keeps his promises, even when given through his servants, as I know very well, and you could do with learning.

God never promised that you could rely on scripture alone, nor would he, because you can't isolate yourself and understand scripture, as scripture tells us at Proverbs 18:1 One isolating himself will seek [his own] selfish longing; against all practical wisdom he will break forth.

You are definitive proof of that because you isolate yourself from God's people and from holy spirit by your belief that you can understand scripture without God's help, or that of his son.
bulproof
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9/25/2013 6:45:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 5:59:20 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

I make nothing up, as you will find out one day.

This entire forum is evidence beyond any contradiction that ALL you do is make things up.
Anna has been telling you since I got here and then so have I. You madman are at least a liar but more more probably just a poor deluded lunatic. I opt for the latter.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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9/25/2013 6:57:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 6:45:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/25/2013 5:59:20 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

I make nothing up, as you will find out one day.

This entire forum is evidence beyond any contradiction that ALL you do is make things up.
Anna has been telling you since I got here and then so have I. You madman are at least a liar but more more probably just a poor deluded lunatic. I opt for the latter.

No, it is evidence of my knowledge of God and the help I get from holy spirit, believe it or not, it is your choice, and you will be judged on that choice.

I can say nothing other than that because it is the truth and nothing I say is entirely of my own origination, or that of any human, unless I make it's source clear.

All credit for my teachings goes to God and Christ.
annanicole
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9/25/2013 2:12:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: God in his wisdom has realised that the obvious instant solution, destroying Satan there and then, as well as any who followed him, spirit or human, and starting again would not prevent the issue ever being raised again.

Anna: Destroying Satan would not have prevented it?

MCB: No, it wouldn't have prevented it recurring in the future, no, because another spirit creature could in future have said something like "ah, but what if.....? "This way all possible avenues have been explored and proven not to work.

Anna: Why, court precedents are challenged all the time. "Yeah, you succeeded with Satan - but he made certain mistakes in his "case". I'll try it." These musings get you nowhere.

MCB: All the instant destruction of Satan would have proved was that God had the power to do it, which all knew anyway. It would not have proved he was right to do so.

Anna: Who said? God determines right from wrong. Why is it "right" for a man to have one wife? God Almighty does not need a lengthy "court battle" to prove He is right. He is right, by definition. Is this WatchTower doctrine, or are you making part of it up?

******

MCB: Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set, he arranged for Satan to have his opportunity to prove his case, but with certain limitations which limited his power so that he could not destroy humanity himself.

Anna: But that's just your own ridiculous conjecture. You offer no scripture for such outrageous claims. BornofGod does about as well.

MCB: No it is not ridiculous conjecture, it is knowledge of God at work.

Anna: It is a LACK of knowledge of God. I've never heard such nonsense- and notice that you have long since ceased supplying scriptures. There aren't any. "Court case". "Legal precedent". "Chance to prove his case." One good thing: there's nowhere for you to go but up from here.

******

MCB: "That is the time described in prophecies such as those prophecies of the Kingdom which you so vehemently deny"

Anna: Yeah, like all those dozens which state that the kingdom is at hand, to shortly come to pass. Or those statements by Paul and John that they were in the kingdom?

MCB: They were in the kingdom to the extent it was established at that point in time, as am I at this later stage.

Anna: It was either established or not. If you are in it - which you are not - you are in the exact kingdom that Paul and John were in. John the Baptist was never in it. It didn't exist at the time. In fact, it didn't exist during the life of Christ. There is no such thing as a "later stage" of the kingdom.

******

ou started in the Garden, provided Gen 3: 15, and then - by your own admission - pretty much left the Bible and fabricated a tall tale, and confirmed it by John 17: 3. By the way, God is not and never was seeking "true justice" regarding the cause of Satan. God did not devise this plan as some sort of deterrent against future rebellion based upon "case precedent." Nor is God concerned about His original plan for Adam and Eve, per se. God is concerned with human redemption.

MCB: No I fabricated nothing,

Anna: Where'd you get it then. If not from the word of God, then you made it up.

MCB: I spoke through my knowledge of God and his personality, granted me through holy spirit, as James said it would be, and as both God and Christ promised to all Christ's true followers.

Anna: I'll round that down to zero - and we're right back where we started. You fabricated the whole mess. Just a wild, speculative theory - and you "proved" it just as you prove your other doctrines. You started with a little Bible - then laid it aside, as usual, and started drifting and dreaming, musing and guessing, speculating and philosophising.

Well, once again, MadCornish has proved his position by his "knowledge of God" (John 17: 3) and by invoking his "holy spirit guidance".

It seems that every time I think MadCornish is wrong - that dang "knowledge of God" that he got from reading John 17: 3, coupled with his "holy spirit guidance" leads him through to victory. I think that perchance we should disregard your perceived "knowledge of God" and this fake "holy spirit guidance" and rely solely on the scriptures.

******

MCB: You believe and teach that scripture is nothing more than history, but you are wrong, fatally wrong to yourself and any who listen to you.

Anna: I don't recall saying that scriptures are nothing more than history. In fact, I didn't. Conversely, the scriptures are the very Word of God and should be held in awe just as we are in awe of God Himself. They should not be handled wrecklessly, as you do. We are guided by the Bible and the Bible alone, the scriptures and the scriptures alone. This dubious "knowledge of God" that you claim is worthless: whatever knowledge you have came from the scriptures, not your guesses. And this fake "holy spirit guidance" that you so frequently invoke when you are in a bind is even worse. "Can't really find it in the Bible? No problem. "Holy Spirit guidance." That'll fix it."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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9/25/2013 3:04:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 2:12:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: God in his wisdom has realised that the obvious instant solution, destroying Satan there and then, as well as any who followed him, spirit or human, and starting again would not prevent the issue ever being raised again.

Anna: Destroying Satan would not have prevented it?

MCB: No, it wouldn't have prevented it recurring in the future, no, because another spirit creature could in future have said something like "ah, but what if.....? "This way all possible avenues have been explored and proven not to work.

Anna: Why, court precedents are challenged all the time. "Yeah, you succeeded with Satan - but he made certain mistakes in his "case". I'll try it." These musings get you nowhere.

MCB: All the instant destruction of Satan would have proved was that God had the power to do it, which all knew anyway. It would not have proved he was right to do so.

Anna: Who said? God determines right from wrong. Why is it "right" for a man to have one wife? God Almighty does not need a lengthy "court battle" to prove He is right. He is right, by definition. Is this WatchTower doctrine, or are you making part of it up?

******

MCB: Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set, he arranged for Satan to have his opportunity to prove his case, but with certain limitations which limited his power so that he could not destroy humanity himself.

Anna: But that's just your own ridiculous conjecture. You offer no scripture for such outrageous claims. BornofGod does about as well.

MCB: No it is not ridiculous conjecture, it is knowledge of God at work.

Anna: It is a LACK of knowledge of God. I've never heard such nonsense- and notice that you have long since ceased supplying scriptures. There aren't any. "Court case". "Legal precedent". "Chance to prove his case." One good thing: there's nowhere for you to go but up from here.

******

MCB: "That is the time described in prophecies such as those prophecies of the Kingdom which you so vehemently deny"

Anna: Yeah, like all those dozens which state that the kingdom is at hand, to shortly come to pass. Or those statements by Paul and John that they were in the kingdom?

MCB: They were in the kingdom to the extent it was established at that point in time, as am I at this later stage.

Anna: It was either established or not. If you are in it - which you are not - you are in the exact kingdom that Paul and John were in. John the Baptist was never in it. It didn't exist at the time. In fact, it didn't exist during the life of Christ. There is no such thing as a "later stage" of the kingdom.

******

ou started in the Garden, provided Gen 3: 15, and then - by your own admission - pretty much left the Bible and fabricated a tall tale, and confirmed it by John 17: 3. By the way, God is not and never was seeking "true justice" regarding the cause of Satan. God did not devise this plan as some sort of deterrent against future rebellion based upon "case precedent." Nor is God concerned about His original plan for Adam and Eve, per se. God is concerned with human redemption.

MCB: No I fabricated nothing,

Anna: Where'd you get it then. If not from the word of God, then you made it up.

MCB: I spoke through my knowledge of God and his personality, granted me through holy spirit, as James said it would be, and as both God and Christ promised to all Christ's true followers.

Anna: I'll round that down to zero - and we're right back where we started. You fabricated the whole mess. Just a wild, speculative theory - and you "proved" it just as you prove your other doctrines. You started with a little Bible - then laid it aside, as usual, and started drifting and dreaming, musing and guessing, speculating and philosophising.

Well, once again, MadCornish has proved his position by his "knowledge of God" (John 17: 3) and by invoking his "holy spirit guidance".

It seems that every time I think MadCornish is wrong - that dang "knowledge of God" that he got from reading John 17: 3, coupled with his "holy spirit guidance" leads him through to victory. I think that perchance we should disregard your perceived "knowledge of God" and this fake "holy spirit guidance" and rely solely on the scriptures.

******

MCB: You believe and teach that scripture is nothing more than history, but you are wrong, fatally wrong to yourself and any who listen to you.

Anna: I don't recall saying that scriptures are nothing more than history. In fact, I didn't. Conversely, the scriptures are the very Word of God and should be held in awe just as we are in awe of God Himself. They should not be handled wrecklessly, as you do. We are guided by the Bible and the Bible alone, the scriptures and the scriptures alone. This dubious "knowledge of God" that you claim is worthless: whatever knowledge you have came from the scriptures, not your guesses. And this fake "holy spirit guidance" that you so frequently invoke when you are in a bind is even worse. "Can't really find it in the Bible? No problem. "Holy Spirit guidance." That'll fix it."

You say it been fulfilled, which makes them nothing more than history

You say the kingdom was fully established in the first century which is completely impossible since not all of Christ's co-rulers were in heaven by then. John was still alive in the last years of the 1st century, and who knows if any of the other spirit-anointed ones were still alive then, we are told of the activities of so few of them.

The kingdom could not be complete until all 144,000 were gathered and died, and since some are alive today...............................................

It is so easy to demonstrate that so many of the beliefs you cling to so desperately are completely impossible, but still you refuse to accept the facts.
annanicole
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9/25/2013 4:53:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "You say the kingdom was fully established in the first century which is completely impossible since not all of Christ's co-rulers were in heaven by then."

Anna: Then perchance you should reconsider your musings about "co-rulers" in the first place - and the manner in which they "rule", because the Bible emphatically says that the kingdom was established in the first century. There is no such thing as "fully established" as opposed to "partially established."

Your entire system is based upon your prophetic speculations, a fact which I have pointed out dozens of times. You specialize in prophesy, and then if things have not yet worked out as you imagined, you'll go back and reinterpret and redefine in order to force plain statements to fit prophesy.

Notice your handling of, say, Col 1: 13. Paul says that he and Colossians are in the kingdom of Jesus Christ. Plain enough. Where does this "fully established" and "partially established" come from? Why, you know why you have to make it up: because you have a materialistic view of PROPHESY. Here's your reasoning: "Well, people are still starving, so I need to think up some explanation for Col 1: 13 - because in the REAL kingdom, nobody will go hungry."

******

MCB: "The kingdom could not be complete until all 144,000 were gathered and died, and since some are alive today"

Anna: Who said 144,000 have to be gathered? And who says that they already haven't been? Who said they weren't? When Paul says, "I am in the kingdom", we can't offset that by some crackpot's views, once again, on PROPHESY.

"giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins." (Col 1)

Paul says that Christians, those who have obeyed the gospel, have been delivered from the power of darkness - whether they are hungry or human governments exist or not. What say you? In the process of delivering us from the power of darkness, God forgave our sins, counted us among the pardoned, added us to the church, translated us into the kingdom. That's plain enough. Do you imply that we should add addendums or modify Paul's statements in order to comply with someone's concept of prophesies of future events, especially those in a book of signs and symbols, types and figures of events that were to shortly come to pass because the time was fulfilled back then? With the WatchTower (and you), however, it's prophesy, prophesy, prophesy. Doesn't fit with our idea of prophesy? No problem. REDEFINE IT.

There is no such thing as "fully established kingdom" or "partially established kingdom" - two more made-up terms to accommodate (I hate to say it) more PROPHESY.

******

MCB: "It is so easy to demonstrate that so many of the beliefs you cling to so desperately are completely impossible"

Anna: That's a laugh! You can't demonstrate that ONE belief that I have is completely impossible! Just try it. I dare you.

Here's the challenge in the form of a statement:

MadCornishBiker cannot prove even ONE of my beliefs to be in error without claiming some "special knowledge of God" or "holy spirit illumination" or using his own oddball views of "prophesy" as his standard.

I, on the other hand, have demonstrated that many of MadCornish's closely-held doctrines are unscriptural - and I have no need to run to my ideas on prophesy or special "spirit guidance". In fact, I wouldn't.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/25/2013 5:00:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 6:57:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/25/2013 6:45:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/25/2013 5:59:20 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

I make nothing up, as you will find out one day.

This entire forum is evidence beyond any contradiction that ALL you do is make things up.
Anna has been telling you since I got here and then so have I. You madman are at least a liar but more more probably just a poor deluded lunatic. I opt for the latter.

No, it is evidence of my knowledge of God and the help I get from holy spirit, believe it or not, it is your choice, and you will be judged on that choice.

I can say nothing other than that because it is the truth and nothing I say is entirely of my own origination, or that of any human, unless I make it's source clear.

All credit for my teachings goes to God and Christ.

All the credit for your testimonies go to the beast and satan, which is God's plan to deceive ALL His people during this age so He could draw out His invisible servant (Christ) in the mind of His prophets and saints. From His invisible Christ that we saints witness, our written and spoken testimonies have to be understood in our native languages. This means that our Creator puts the words from our learned vocabularies into our mind according to His eternal plan. This is the only way we can learn about God's invisible knowledge that no man can ever see. This invisible knowledge is where all the original writings and prophecies came from.

However, the religious Jews and Romans changed these original documents and added their religious ideas from the beast for the purpose of controlling people and making a living by collecting tithes and offerings from them.
MadCornishBiker
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9/26/2013 4:01:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 4:53:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "You say the kingdom was fully established in the first century which is completely impossible since not all of Christ's co-rulers were in heaven by then."

Anna: Then perchance you should reconsider your musings about "co-rulers" in the first place - and the manner in which they "rule", because the Bible emphatically says that the kingdom was established in the first century. There is no such thing as "fully established" as opposed to "partially established."

Your entire system is based upon your prophetic speculations, a fact which I have pointed out dozens of times. You specialize in prophesy, and then if things have not yet worked out as you imagined, you'll go back and reinterpret and redefine in order to force plain statements to fit prophesy.

Notice your handling of, say, Col 1: 13. Paul says that he and Colossians are in the kingdom of Jesus Christ. Plain enough. Where does this "fully established" and "partially established" come from? Why, you know why you have to make it up: because you have a materialistic view of PROPHESY. Here's your reasoning: "Well, people are still starving, so I need to think up some explanation for Col 1: 13 - because in the REAL kingdom, nobody will go hungry."

******

MCB: "The kingdom could not be complete until all 144,000 were gathered and died, and since some are alive today"

Anna: Who said 144,000 have to be gathered? And who says that they already haven't been? Who said they weren't? When Paul says, "I am in the kingdom", we can't offset that by some crackpot's views, once again, on PROPHESY.

"giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins." (Col 1)

Paul says that Christians, those who have obeyed the gospel, have been delivered from the power of darkness - whether they are hungry or human governments exist or not. What say you? In the process of delivering us from the power of darkness, God forgave our sins, counted us among the pardoned, added us to the church, translated us into the kingdom. That's plain enough. Do you imply that we should add addendums or modify Paul's statements in order to comply with someone's concept of prophesies of future events, especially those in a book of signs and symbols, types and figures of events that were to shortly come to pass because the time was fulfilled back then? With the WatchTower (and you), however, it's prophesy, prophesy, prophesy. Doesn't fit with our idea of prophesy? No problem. REDEFINE IT.

There is no such thing as "fully established kingdom" or "partially established kingdom" - two more made-up terms to accommodate (I hate to say it) more PROPHESY.

******

MCB: "It is so easy to demonstrate that so many of the beliefs you cling to so desperately are completely impossible"

Anna: That's a laugh! You can't demonstrate that ONE belief that I have is completely impossible! Just try it. I dare you.

Here's the challenge in the form of a statement:

MadCornishBiker cannot prove even ONE of my beliefs to be in error without claiming some "special knowledge of God" or "holy spirit illumination" or using his own oddball views of "prophesy" as his standard.

I, on the other hand, have demonstrated that many of MadCornish's closely-held doctrines are unscriptural - and I have no need to run to my ideas on prophesy or special "spirit guidance". In fact, I wouldn't.

Im have Anna, and you know it. Frequently.

You beloved that John 1:14 applies to Jesus human birth and yet that is impossible because of the wording of it. Especially when combined with the description of Jesus as God's firstborn son.

It cannot possibly apply to Jesus human birth because the first humans God "begat" or produced, were Adam and Eve, so Jesus is, if applied that way not God's only begotten, he was as Paul said the "second Adam".

1 Corinthians 15: 45 It is even so written: "The first man Adam became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."

So according to your beliefs Christ is neither the first-born, nor the only begotten.

No the only way that is even possible is the truth of the matter, that the one who occupied Jesus perfect human body was the first creation of God, and the only one he made alone.

That is the only way it can read, anything else is impossible.
bornofgod
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9/26/2013 10:07:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 3:44:38 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/24/2013 10:58:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "True he was forced for the sake of true justice to allow it to be taken down a bumpy road"

Anna: Can you provide some sort of proof of this? I mean real proof - not Jehovah's Witness proof.

The proof of it is all around you.

First, the background.

Satan laid down his first challenge in the Garden of Eden when he deceived Eve, and Adam followed her down the wrong path. Trying to avoid reliance on God (like you do, lol).

He is, in Revelation 12, finally described as "the original serpent" in confirmation of that.

God then declared the start of his plan, directly to Satan when he said, as recorded at Genesis 3: 15 And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel."

Who was "the woman"?

That is a description often applied to God's heavenly Organisation and also to his organisation on earth. Eve certainly thought it was her, but it wasn't, things weren't planned to happen that quickly, it was, in fact, the first prophecy of the coming Messiah.

Why the wounding in the heel and the head?

A wound in the heel will temporarily disable you, but a wound in the head has a potential for fatality. Stan wounded the Messiah in the heel, when he had him put to death and limited his effectiveness to a 3.5 year preaching campaign (Daniel 9).

However, by his faithfulness to death as a perfect human the Messiah actually gave Satan a serious and terminal "head wound". Whilst that wound was not immediately fatal, it has given him a "fatal wound" in that he is now certain to eb executed in God's own time.

Despite the fact that you don't believe it. This long term plan was set for 7,000 years, approximately, and we are now nearing the end of it. That is scripturally proven.

OK so now we leave the realms of scriptural evidence and rely on our compliance with John 17:3 (yes, that again, it is so important).

If we have got to know God well, we will know that he can only have had a very good, and in the long term beneficial, reason for doing so.

What could such a reason be?

Well there really is only one answer to that. God in his wisdom has realised that the obvious instant solution, destroying Satan there and then, as well as any who followed him, spirit or human, and starting again would not prevent the issue ever being raised again. Therefore to make sure that an unarguable legal precedent was set, he arranged for Satan to have his opportunity to prove his case, but with certain limitations which limited his power so that he could not destroy humanity himself.

That way, justice is not only done, but seen to be done, especially in the eyes of his loyal spirit beings.

The bible, in it's most basic purpose, is God's record of the progress of that plan for humanity to learn from, so that when the plan is fully accomplished, as it will inevitably be, if any should decide to emulate Satan or Adam and Eve, god can simply point to the evidence and say goodbye.

That is the guarantee of perfect peace that Christ, by has loyalty has made "yes", and will continue to do so.

When is that perfect day to arrive?

When the earth ash been cleansed of all of Satan and all his works, all the dead have been resurrected in order to give them the chance that Adam threw away for all of us, and the kingdom has been handed back to God by his son.

That is the time described in prophecies such as those prophecies of the Kingdom which you so vehemently deny, and especially in the last 3 chapters of Revelation.

We, in this time have a big advantage over any ion the past. We have seen the fulfilment of many of those prophecies, and if we have became a part of God's organisation have experienced a somewhat diluted version of what life will be like when it is all accomplished fully.

We have more information at our fingertips, from scripture, than even the Apostles had, and have seen the fulfilment of more prophecies than they ever did, including the prophesied Apostasy of the last 1900 years.

we should all study the evidence carefully and prayerfully, and ask God for the help he has promised, through his son. That way we may be saved.

You fool !!! Our Creator already planned and created the salvation for ALL His people before any visible world appeared. If you had the knowledge of God, then you would understand His prophecies about our salvation. No flesh of a saint or prophet has to die for our sins. Our flesh was only used to testify to God's salvation plan for ALL His people but religious fools like yourself have been teaching lies that only certain people get saved while everyone else goes to hell. This is the biggest lie from the beast there is.

Psalm 22:
25: From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.

This prophecy shows that us saints would come to tell about God's deliverence plan (salvation) to people who are still spiritually unborn. All God's people, except us saints, are under the Old Covenant until their flesh perishes. Then they will wake up in their new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that's under the New Covenant.

This following prophecy shows that God's created men were enslaved by the flesh that deceived them from the Truth during this first age. After All flesh has perished in this age, man will get new flesh that will never deceive them again. The New Covenant of God's will put man in a peaceful state of mind forever. We won't understand death and delusion in the next age.

Ezekiel 34
22: I will save my flock, they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.
23: And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd.
24: And I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken.
25: "I will make with them a covenant of peace and banish wild beasts from the land, so that they may dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods.
26: And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will send down the showers in their season; they shall be showers of blessing.
27: And the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield its increase, and they shall be secure in their land; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I break the bars of their yoke, and deliver them from the hand of those who enslaved them.
28: They shall no more be a prey to the nations, nor shall the beasts of the land devour them; they shall dwell securely, and none shall make them afraid.
29: And I will provide for them prosperous plantations so that they shall no more be consumed with hunger in the land, and no longer suffer the reproach of the nations.
30: And they shall know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, says the Lord GOD.
31: And you are my sheep, the sheep of
annanicole
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9/26/2013 2:41:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "It is so easy to demonstrate that so many of the beliefs you cling to so desperately are completely impossible"

Anna: That's a laugh! You can't demonstrate that ONE belief that I have is completely impossible! Just try it. I dare you.

Here's the challenge in the form of a statement:

MadCornishBiker cannot prove even ONE of my beliefs to be in error without claiming some "special knowledge of God" or "holy spirit illumination" or using his own oddball views of "prophesy" as his standard.

I, on the other hand, have demonstrated that many of MadCornish's closely-held doctrines are unscriptural - and I have no need to run to my ideas on prophesy or special "spirit guidance". In fact, I wouldn't.

MCB: I have Anna, and you know it. Frequently.

MCB: You believe that John 1:14 applies to Jesus human birth and yet that is impossible because of the wording of it. Especially when combined with the description of Jesus as God's firstborn son.

Anna: Let's see:

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth."

Of course "And the Word became flesh" applies to Jesus's human conception and birth. The Word was not flesh before He was born of Mary, was He?

John says so in the very next verse: "John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me."

He became flesh and then dwelt among them - lived among them as a man subject to like passions as are we, teaching them, eating with them, walking with them. And they, John and others, beheld His glory. Whether "glory" means the many miracles or the resurrection or the ascension or a combination of all three is of little consequence.

"Glory as the only-begotten of the Father". Is that where the hang-up is? Neither Adam nor Eve nor anyone else was ever begotten of the Father. "Creation" is not "begotten".

We are begotten by the gospel - the seed is the word of God. But we are born of water and of the Spirit, and then we are sons of God. "But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name."

MCB: "It cannot possibly apply to Jesus human birth because the first humans God "begat" or produced"

Anna: "Begat" does not mean "created". There is not a single passage anywhere that refers to Jesus as a "begotten son" before He was conceived and born of Mary. Not a one. You have 39 books, plus minute portions of 4 more, that deal with time before Jesus' birth: why don't you find a reference to Him as a "begotten Son"?

No, according to your doctrines, Jesus was NOT the "ONLY begotten Son" - because, other than Jesus being first, you do not see much difference between Jesus and Adam. Was Adam the Father's second begotten son? Does God even have a second begotten son?

*****

MCB: Paul said the "second Adam".

Anna: Yes, Paul said that - and by his saying it, even you should understand the usage. It is used as a contrast between the fleshly and spiritual birth of us. Do you get that point? We are not sons of God by birth. We are sons of Adam by birth. But we must be born again:

"For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ."

In our rebirth, our conversion, our being born again, our being born of water and of the Spirit ... the gospel of Jesus Christ is the germinating power, the begetting power. Hence, Christ - the words of Christ - the gospel of Christ - is seen as the germinating power. In that sense, He is the second Adam.

You have two fathers, you know - or you are supposed to have. One would be Adam, and the other should be Christ, the gospel of Jesus Christ.

"So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven."

How can you miss the fact that the "first man" and "second man" is YOU - not Adam or Christ. Paul is talking about our two natures - and the "begetting power" or source of each one. He uses it again and again:

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

Was Adam a son of God? Yes
Was Adam a begotten son of God? No

Are we sons of Adam? Yes, in the flesh - by being born of our mothers
Are we sons of God? Yes, spiritually - by being born again, of water and the Spirit
Are we begotten sons of God? No, for "begotten" refers to our natural birth

That's easy enough - yet you can't seem to grasp the difference between "begotten" and "created". Right there is your problem. You take the metaphor of Adam and Jesus, and run it in the wrong direction. It's not that you do not see the metaphor: you simply misapply it.

I'll tell you something else, since you implied it a couple of months ago: I do not pray to Jesus. Not at all. Jesus is in the business of mediating between the Father and humans. I am also not in the racket of assessing any relative equalities amongst the Father, Son, and Spirit: they have different functions, and I do not assess the hypothetical importance of one over the other. Nor do I talk with Jesus. In our hymnals, "Just a Little Talk with Jesus" and "Tell it to Jesus" are marked "Do Not Use" - I do not sing them. Jesus taught His disciples to pray, "Our Father" - and thus I do. I pray through Jesus - not to Him. A song like "Just a Little Talk With Jesus" is actually fine with me - metaphorically and symbolically. Not literally. Jesus talks to me all the time, through His word - just as the Holy Spirit does.

The only problem I have with John 1: 14 is the specific application of the word "glory", which also includes the antecedent of the pronoun "we" in "we beheld His glory". Who is the "we"? What "glory" did you behold? I happen to believe that "his glory" refers to His resurrected state and subsequent ascension. There wasn't much "glory" to Jesus Christ prior to that: "He was despised, and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we esteemed him not."

******

MCB: "Especially when combined with the description of Jesus as God's firstborn son."

Anna: There is no description of Jesus as the "first begotten son", is there? No, it's "only begotten". Jesus was the "firstborn son" alright - of Mary.

You are hung up and ultimately confused about the word monogenes - "only begotten". You believe, apparently, that Jesus Christ was the "only begotten Son" - before he was ever conceived in Mary. Hence, you see Jesus Christ as created at some point back in the depths of eternity. He had to have been, you reason, because He was "begotten" at some point. This also causes you to imply that the Father has, in all eternity, only created one thing!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."