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Thoughts on this quote, Christians?

MysticEgg
Posts: 524
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9/19/2013 10:18:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to see some people's reaction(s) to this quote:

"If Jesus had his way; we would all have national health care."_(Not sure who said it)

Thanking you all in advance!

J
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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9/21/2013 12:09:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.
ExsurgeDomine & MysticEgg

In Canada... We have national health care! My neighbor (a new arrival from Kentucky) had emergency surgery here in Canada. She told me the same operation in the "USA" would have cost her $30,000. She walked out of the hospital (wheel chair) costing her ZERO dollars!

You will not find many Canadians saying anything against national health care!
To be more specific "The health care" is run provincially by the government of each province, for you in the states it would be run/governed by each state!
National Health Care administered by the government of each Province. Some have different standards of care from the next but in general they are very similar!
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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9/21/2013 4:21:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 12:09:52 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.
ExsurgeDomine & MysticEgg

In Canada... We have national health care! My neighbor (a new arrival from Kentucky) had emergency surgery here in Canada. She told me the same operation in the "USA" would have cost her $30,000. She walked out of the hospital (wheel chair) costing her ZERO dollars!

You will not find many Canadians saying anything against national health care!
To be more specific "The health care" is run provincially by the government of each province, for you in the states it would be run/governed by each state!
National Health Care administered by the government of each Province. Some have different standards of care from the next but in general they are very similar!

http://www.queensu.ca...

I'm not really sure why Jesus cares about health care nationalization, though. I'm sure He'd think there was a more efficient means than turning it over to the government. But I doubt He'd get that worked up over it one way or the other.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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9/21/2013 2:23:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 4:21:28 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:09:52 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.
ExsurgeDomine & MysticEgg

In Canada... We have national health care! My neighbor (a new arrival from Kentucky) had emergency surgery here in Canada. She told me the same operation in the "USA" would have cost her $30,000. She walked out of the hospital (wheel chair) costing her ZERO dollars!

You will not find many Canadians saying anything against national health care!
To be more specific "The health care" is run provincially by the government of each province, for you in the states it would be run/governed by each state!
National Health Care administered by the government of each Province. Some have different standards of care from the next but in general they are very similar!

http://www.queensu.ca...

I'm not really sure why Jesus cares about health care nationalization, though. I'm sure He'd think there was a more efficient means than turning it over to the government. But I doubt He'd get that worked up over it one way or the other.

Naysayer THINK... In the times past... It was the CHURCH that was in health care! The kings and governments relied on the CHURCH to feed the poor and care for the sick, school the children!
10% payed to the Church on Sundays was expected and NEEDED for the care of the people!

Naysayer The system has changed.. Now the Governments are into the care of the people, the schooling of the people! As is the case today the People STILL need care when they are sick! The Government must do what is best for the people! NOW..
Naysayer now instead of a Sunday tithing we pay TAXES!!! The Governments MUST be responsible put the peoples money in the "Care of the people" instead of armies and weapons!
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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9/22/2013 5:40:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 2:23:16 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 4:21:28 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:09:52 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.
ExsurgeDomine & MysticEgg

In Canada... We have national health care! My neighbor (a new arrival from Kentucky) had emergency surgery here in Canada. She told me the same operation in the "USA" would have cost her $30,000. She walked out of the hospital (wheel chair) costing her ZERO dollars!

You will not find many Canadians saying anything against national health care!
To be more specific "The health care" is run provincially by the government of each province, for you in the states it would be run/governed by each state!
National Health Care administered by the government of each Province. Some have different standards of care from the next but in general they are very similar!

http://www.queensu.ca...

I'm not really sure why Jesus cares about health care nationalization, though. I'm sure He'd think there was a more efficient means than turning it over to the government. But I doubt He'd get that worked up over it one way or the other.

Naysayer THINK... In the times past... It was the CHURCH that was in health care! The kings and governments relied on the CHURCH to feed the poor and care for the sick, school the children!
10% payed to the Church on Sundays was expected and NEEDED for the care of the people!

Naysayer The system has changed.. Now the Governments are into the care of the people, the schooling of the people! As is the case today the People STILL need care when they are sick! The Government must do what is best for the people! NOW..
Naysayer now instead of a Sunday tithing we pay TAXES!!! The Governments MUST be responsible put the peoples money in the "Care of the people" instead of armies and weapons!

O.O

Whoa. Are you serious? That's your answer? The government now stands in for the church? There is so much wrong with that statement.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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9/22/2013 9:31:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 5:40:27 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/21/2013 2:23:16 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 4:21:28 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:09:52 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.
ExsurgeDomine & MysticEgg

In Canada... We have national health care! My neighbor (a new arrival from Kentucky) had emergency surgery here in Canada. She told me the same operation in the "USA" would have cost her $30,000. She walked out of the hospital (wheel chair) costing her ZERO dollars!

You will not find many Canadians saying anything against national health care!
To be more specific "The health care" is run provincially by the government of each province, for you in the states it would be run/governed by each state!
National Health Care administered by the government of each Province. Some have different standards of care from the next but in general they are very similar!

http://www.queensu.ca...

I'm not really sure why Jesus cares about health care nationalization, though. I'm sure He'd think there was a more efficient means than turning it over to the government. But I doubt He'd get that worked up over it one way or the other.

Naysayer THINK... In the times past... It was the CHURCH that was in health care! The kings and governments relied on the CHURCH to feed the poor and care for the sick, school the children!
10% payed to the Church on Sundays was expected and NEEDED for the care of the people!

Naysayer The system has changed.. Now the Governments are into the care of the people, the schooling of the people! As is the case today the People STILL need care when they are sick! The Government must do what is best for the people! NOW..
Naysayer now instead of a Sunday tithing we pay TAXES!!! The Governments MUST be responsible put the peoples money in the "Care of the people" instead of armies and weapons!

O.O

Whoa. Are you serious? That's your answer? The government now stands in for the church? There is so much wrong with that statement.
Naysayer The Church was the source for welfare... Not any more The Government doles out the food stamps now!
The Hospitals were started by CHURCH.. Now they are Government run!
Schools the same; Schools were introduced to the world by CHURCH!

Yes it is my answer to Gov health care because the Government has taken over all else!
Jesus' way is "feed the poor, care for the sick, care for the shut ins, etc!"
Exactly what the Church did do, has been handed over. The job in this secular society is now the Governments!
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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9/22/2013 9:59:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 9:31:51 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/22/2013 5:40:27 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/21/2013 2:23:16 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 4:21:28 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:09:52 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.
ExsurgeDomine & MysticEgg

In Canada... We have national health care! My neighbor (a new arrival from Kentucky) had emergency surgery here in Canada. She told me the same operation in the "USA" would have cost her $30,000. She walked out of the hospital (wheel chair) costing her ZERO dollars!

You will not find many Canadians saying anything against national health care!
To be more specific "The health care" is run provincially by the government of each province, for you in the states it would be run/governed by each state!
National Health Care administered by the government of each Province. Some have different standards of care from the next but in general they are very similar!

http://www.queensu.ca...

I'm not really sure why Jesus cares about health care nationalization, though. I'm sure He'd think there was a more efficient means than turning it over to the government. But I doubt He'd get that worked up over it one way or the other.

Naysayer THINK... In the times past... It was the CHURCH that was in health care! The kings and governments relied on the CHURCH to feed the poor and care for the sick, school the children!
10% payed to the Church on Sundays was expected and NEEDED for the care of the people!

Naysayer The system has changed.. Now the Governments are into the care of the people, the schooling of the people! As is the case today the People STILL need care when they are sick! The Government must do what is best for the people! NOW..
Naysayer now instead of a Sunday tithing we pay TAXES!!! The Governments MUST be responsible put the peoples money in the "Care of the people" instead of armies and weapons!

O.O

Whoa. Are you serious? That's your answer? The government now stands in for the church? There is so much wrong with that statement.
Naysayer The Church was the source for welfare... Not any more The Government doles out the food stamps now!
The Hospitals were started by CHURCH.. Now they are Government run!
Schools the same; Schools were introduced to the world by CHURCH!

Yes it is my answer to Gov health care because the Government has taken over all else!
Jesus' way is "feed the poor, care for the sick, care for the shut ins, etc!"
Exactly what the Church did do, has been handed over. The job in this secular society is now the Governments!

That's a fairly accurate assessment. However it still doesn't answer two questions:
1. What would Jesus think of government healthcare. And again. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous beauracracy and waste associated.
2. Does that alleviate the church from its responsibilities? And the answer is absolutely not.

So...Yippee Canadian healthcare. I'm glad you're satisfied. I would not be.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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9/22/2013 10:21:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 9:59:14 PM, Naysayer wrote:


That's a fairly accurate assessment. However it still doesn't answer two questions:
1. What would Jesus think of government healthcare. And again. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous beauracracy and waste associated.
2. Does that alleviate the church from its responsibilities? And the answer is absolutely not.

So...Yippee Canadian healthcare. I'm glad you're satisfied. I would not be.

What would Jesus think of government healthcare.
I reply.... Government works for the people, So it is the PEOPLE in health care!
The Police Chief represents the police department!
The Dean represents the school!
The Government represents "US" you and me, the people!

Jesus should think... "The people are taking care of the sick!"

Naysayer Your words.. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous bureaucracy and waste associated.

I reply: AND.... This is an opinion.. No facts! Like a big ship; The government takes a long time to turn, change course.. Sure there will mistakes, lessons learned... But after a time they should get it right!

You said.. Does that alleviate the church from its responsibilities? And the answer is absolutely not.
I reply: I agree.. BUT it does take the sole responsibility of it off of the church, don't you think!? It places it more fairly on "ALL"!!

#1 The church is called to evangelize!!! The church is still doing that!

You said.. Canadian healthcare. I'm glad you're satisfied. I would not be.

I reply: Health care is very expensive the newspaper always has some contentious issue about it.. Mostly the cost and the way it is administered! BUT that said... I can sleep at night... knowing my taxes are going to security for my whole family. I can sleep knowing my sister who is as poor as a church mouse is protected!
Sitara
Posts: 745
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9/23/2013 3:11:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.

Prove it.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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9/23/2013 3:34:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 10:21:14 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/22/2013 9:59:14 PM, Naysayer wrote:


That's a fairly accurate assessment. However it still doesn't answer two questions:
1. What would Jesus think of government healthcare. And again. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous beauracracy and waste associated.
2. Does that alleviate the church from its responsibilities? And the answer is absolutely not.

So...Yippee Canadian healthcare. I'm glad you're satisfied. I would not be.

What would Jesus think of government healthcare.
I reply.... Government works for the people, So it is the PEOPLE in health care!
The Police Chief represents the police department!
The Dean represents the school!
The Government represents "US" you and me, the people!

Jesus should think... "The people are taking care of the sick!"

Naysayer Your words.. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous bureaucracy and waste associated.

I reply: AND.... This is an opinion.. No facts! Like a big ship; The government takes a long time to turn, change course.. Sure there will mistakes, lessons learned... But after a time they should get it right!

I'm pretty sure the statement, what do you think Jesus... is asking for an opinion. I am quite certain given that He is God and all powerful and hasn't waved his magic wand to heal everyone, his goals don't go that direction.

The whole point of government social services is humanism. It's the idea that we take things out of the hands of God and the Church has no purpose and goes and quietly sits in the corner until we get around to stamping her out.

WE did this. WE provide this. There is no God. It's US! The GOODNESS, the BROTHERHOOD of man and all that great stuff.

We have a whole lot of healthy people now going to hell. How do you feel about nuns handing out condoms to prostitutes?
ExsurgeDomine
Posts: 176
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9/23/2013 7:07:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 3:11:23 AM, Sitara wrote:
At 9/19/2013 12:35:50 PM, ExsurgeDomine wrote:
Jesus did have his way and we don't have national health care, so my thoughts on that quote are that it's false, dead wrong.

Prove it.

Prove what?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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9/23/2013 2:45:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 3:34:41 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/22/2013 10:21:14 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/22/2013 9:59:14 PM, Naysayer wrote:


That's a fairly accurate assessment. However it still doesn't answer two questions:
1. What would Jesus think of government healthcare. And again. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous beauracracy and waste associated.
2. Does that alleviate the church from its responsibilities? And the answer is absolutely not.

So...Yippee Canadian healthcare. I'm glad you're satisfied. I would not be.

What would Jesus think of government healthcare.
I reply.... Government works for the people, So it is the PEOPLE in health care!
The Police Chief represents the police department!
The Dean represents the school!
The Government represents "US" you and me, the people!

Jesus should think... "The people are taking care of the sick!"

Naysayer Your words.. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous bureaucracy and waste associated.

I reply: AND.... This is an opinion.. No facts! Like a big ship; The government takes a long time to turn, change course.. Sure there will mistakes, lessons learned... But after a time they should get it right!

I'm pretty sure the statement, what do you think Jesus... is asking for an opinion. I am quite certain given that He is God and all powerful and hasn't waved his magic wand to heal everyone, his goals don't go that direction.

The whole point of government social services is humanism. It's the idea that we take things out of the hands of God and the Church has no purpose and goes and quietly sits in the corner until we get around to stamping her out.

WE did this. WE provide this. There is no God. It's US! The GOODNESS, the BROTHERHOOD of man and all that great stuff.

We have a whole lot of healthy people now going to hell. How do you feel about nuns handing out condoms to prostitutes?
Naysayer Thank you for your reply.
I point out the Church Jesus established will never ever fail!!

Your words.. It's the idea that we take things out of the hands of God and the Church has no purpose and goes and quietly sits in the corner until we get around to stamping her out.

LOOK...
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

Naysayer "FOREVER" is a very long time!
The Holy Spirit is guiding the one Church Jesus established, ALWAYS never ever to leave her, never ever to lead her into error! This TRUTH from the mouth of Jesus must be rejected by all who reject the Catholic Church!

AND..

Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Naysayer Jesus is ALWAYS WITH the one Church he established; "To the very end of the world!" This TRUTH from the mouth of Jesus must be rejected by all who reject the Catholic Church!

Scriptures are clear the Holy BLAMELESS Catholic Church is the TRUTH!!!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Naysayer The Church will not be "Stamped Out" men will reject the TRUTH for the LIE! The LIE being: "All churches are the same all believe the scriptures!!"
The fact is "ALL man made churches MUST reject the scriptures" or they would have to be Catholic and accept the authority of the Pope!
All must believe; Jesus was overpowered and Satan took Jesus' body from him"!
All must believe; "Jesus lied the Holy Spirit DID lead the church into error!"
All must believe; the Church Jesus established is NOT the "pillar of truth!"

Naysayer All must believe the ONE Church Jesus established is NOT "BLAMELESS" or "HOLY"!

Ephesians 5:27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Naysayer All man made churches MUST reject Ephesians 5:27 as just another lie from the mouth of God!
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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9/23/2013 4:54:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 2:45:36 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/23/2013 3:34:41 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/22/2013 10:21:14 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/22/2013 9:59:14 PM, Naysayer wrote:


That's a fairly accurate assessment. However it still doesn't answer two questions:
1. What would Jesus think of government healthcare. And again. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous beauracracy and waste associated.
2. Does that alleviate the church from its responsibilities? And the answer is absolutely not.

So...Yippee Canadian healthcare. I'm glad you're satisfied. I would not be.

What would Jesus think of government healthcare.
I reply.... Government works for the people, So it is the PEOPLE in health care!
The Police Chief represents the police department!
The Dean represents the school!
The Government represents "US" you and me, the people!

Jesus should think... "The people are taking care of the sick!"

Naysayer Your words.. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous bureaucracy and waste associated.

I reply: AND.... This is an opinion.. No facts! Like a big ship; The government takes a long time to turn, change course.. Sure there will mistakes, lessons learned... But after a time they should get it right!

I'm pretty sure the statement, what do you think Jesus... is asking for an opinion. I am quite certain given that He is God and all powerful and hasn't waved his magic wand to heal everyone, his goals don't go that direction.

The whole point of government social services is humanism. It's the idea that we take things out of the hands of God and the Church has no purpose and goes and quietly sits in the corner until we get around to stamping her out.

WE did this. WE provide this. There is no God. It's US! The GOODNESS, the BROTHERHOOD of man and all that great stuff.

We have a whole lot of healthy people now going to hell. How do you feel about nuns handing out condoms to prostitutes?
Naysayer Thank you for your reply.
I point out the Church Jesus established will never ever fail!!

Your words.. It's the idea that we take things out of the hands of God and the Church has no purpose and goes and quietly sits in the corner until we get around to stamping her out.

LOOK...
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

Naysayer "FOREVER" is a very long time!
The Holy Spirit is guiding the one Church Jesus established, ALWAYS never ever to leave her, never ever to lead her into error! This TRUTH from the mouth of Jesus must be rejected by all who reject the Catholic Church!

AND..

Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Naysayer Jesus is ALWAYS WITH the one Church he established; "To the very end of the world!" This TRUTH from the mouth of Jesus must be rejected by all who reject the Catholic Church!

Scriptures are clear the Holy BLAMELESS Catholic Church is the TRUTH!!!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Naysayer The Church will not be "Stamped Out" men will reject the TRUTH for the LIE! The LIE being: "All churches are the same all believe the scriptures!!"
The fact is "ALL man made churches MUST reject the scriptures" or they would have to be Catholic and accept the authority of the Pope!
All must believe; Jesus was overpowered and Satan took Jesus' body from him"!
All must believe; "Jesus lied the Holy Spirit DID lead the church into error!"
All must believe; the Church Jesus established is NOT the "pillar of truth!"

Naysayer All must believe the ONE Church Jesus established is NOT "BLAMELESS" or "HOLY"!

Ephesians 5:27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Naysayer All man made churches MUST reject Ephesians 5:27 as just another lie from the mouth of God!

Your arguments have nothing to do one with the other. Your support of your Catholic church is not even relevant to how the world acts. I'm not touching that in this post.

Whether the church is without spot or stain or wrinkle or blemish when Christ presents it to himself is neither here nor there with the conversation of government health care. The government is not aiding or assisting the church in its mission. The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination to the Lord.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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9/23/2013 6:18:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 4:54:12 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/23/2013 2:45:36 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/23/2013 3:34:41 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/22/2013 10:21:14 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/22/2013 9:59:14 PM, Naysayer wrote:


That's a fairly accurate assessment. However it still doesn't answer two questions:
1. What would Jesus think of government healthcare. And again. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous beauracracy and waste associated.
2. Does that alleviate the church from its responsibilities? And the answer is absolutely not.

So...Yippee Canadian healthcare. I'm glad you're satisfied. I would not be.

What would Jesus think of government healthcare.
I reply.... Government works for the people, So it is the PEOPLE in health care!
The Police Chief represents the police department!
The Dean represents the school!
The Government represents "US" you and me, the people!

Jesus should think... "The people are taking care of the sick!"

Naysayer Your words.. I doubt Jesus would be very pleased with the ridiculous bureaucracy and waste associated.

I reply: AND.... This is an opinion.. No facts! Like a big ship; The government takes a long time to turn, change course.. Sure there will mistakes, lessons learned... But after a time they should get it right!

I'm pretty sure the statement, what do you think Jesus... is asking for an opinion. I am quite certain given that He is God and all powerful and hasn't waved his magic wand to heal everyone, his goals don't go that direction.

The whole point of government social services is humanism. It's the idea that we take things out of the hands of God and the Church has no purpose and goes and quietly sits in the corner until we get around to stamping her out.

WE did this. WE provide this. There is no God. It's US! The GOODNESS, the BROTHERHOOD of man and all that great stuff.

We have a whole lot of healthy people now going to hell. How do you feel about nuns handing out condoms to prostitutes?
Naysayer Thank you for your reply.
I point out the Church Jesus established will never ever fail!!

Your words.. It's the idea that we take things out of the hands of God and the Church has no purpose and goes and quietly sits in the corner until we get around to stamping her out.

LOOK...
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

Naysayer "FOREVER" is a very long time!
The Holy Spirit is guiding the one Church Jesus established, ALWAYS never ever to leave her, never ever to lead her into error! This TRUTH from the mouth of Jesus must be rejected by all who reject the Catholic Church!

AND..

Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Naysayer Jesus is ALWAYS WITH the one Church he established; "To the very end of the world!" This TRUTH from the mouth of Jesus must be rejected by all who reject the Catholic Church!

Scriptures are clear the Holy BLAMELESS Catholic Church is the TRUTH!!!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God"s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Naysayer The Church will not be "Stamped Out" men will reject the TRUTH for the LIE! The LIE being: "All churches are the same all believe the scriptures!!"
The fact is "ALL man made churches MUST reject the scriptures" or they would have to be Catholic and accept the authority of the Pope!
All must believe; Jesus was overpowered and Satan took Jesus' body from him"!
All must believe; "Jesus lied the Holy Spirit DID lead the church into error!"
All must believe; the Church Jesus established is NOT the "pillar of truth!"

Naysayer All must believe the ONE Church Jesus established is NOT "BLAMELESS" or "HOLY"!

Ephesians 5:27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Naysayer All man made churches MUST reject Ephesians 5:27 as just another lie from the mouth of God!

Your arguments have nothing to do one with the other. Your support of your Catholic church is not even relevant to how the world acts. I'm not touching that in this post.

Whether the church is without spot or stain or wrinkle or blemish when Christ presents it to himself is neither here nor there with the conversation of government health care. The government is not aiding or assisting the church in its mission. The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination to the Lord.

Your words.. Your support of your Catholic church is not even relevant to how the world acts.
Naysayer I was pointing out... CHURCH will not be "Stamped Out" BUT men will reject the TRUTH for the LIE!

** Heath care accepted or rejected has ZERO to do with Jesus and salvation!
CHURCH : Can only be the ONE Church Jesus established! PROVEN by the fact all other churches MUST reject the scriptures!
All who reject the scriptures are rejecting Jesus the author of the scriptures! It is just this simple!
Naysayer You are the one trying to tie Jesus to Government Health Care, to tie Jesus into the topic you MUST accept the TRUTHS found in the scriptures!

The LIE being: "All churches are the same and all churches believe the scriptures!!"

Naysayer Truth be told your church also MUST REJECT Jesus!! If your church accepted the scriptures it would cease to exist, it would have to be Catholic!
Your church exists on the idea; It must RESTORE the church Jesus established, that Jesus was overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body from Jesus!

You have placed your salvation in a LIE of; "The Holy Spirit ERRED that the Holy Spirit is NOT guiding Jesus' church FOREVER!!!!"
Naysayer Then you turn around and try to tie Jesus to your lie of, "Jesus rejects health Care!!!"
You and your church must reject.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world" ....>>>> SCRIPTURES!!!!!
For the unscriptural: "Jesus rejects health Care"!

"Jesus rejects Health Care" is not found in the scriptures.. You believe it!???
"I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world" IS found in the scriptures.. You REJECT IT!!???
Naysayer
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9/23/2013 7:20:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 6:18:55 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Your arguments have nothing to do one with the other. Your support of your Catholic church is not even relevant to how the world acts. I'm not touching that in this post.

Whether the church is without spot or stain or wrinkle or blemish when Christ presents it to himself is neither here nor there with the conversation of government health care. The government is not aiding or assisting the church in its mission. The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination to the Lord.

Your words.. Your support of your Catholic church is not even relevant to how the world acts.
Naysayer I was pointing out... CHURCH will not be "Stamped Out" BUT men will reject the TRUTH for the LIE!

** Heath care accepted or rejected has ZERO to do with Jesus and salvation!
CHURCH : Can only be the ONE Church Jesus established! PROVEN by the fact all other churches MUST reject the scriptures!
All who reject the scriptures are rejecting Jesus the author of the scriptures! It is just this simple!
Naysayer You are the one trying to tie Jesus to Government Health Care, to tie Jesus into the topic you MUST accept the TRUTHS found in the scriptures!

The LIE being: "All churches are the same and all churches believe the scriptures!!"

Naysayer Truth be told your church also MUST REJECT Jesus!! If your church accepted the scriptures it would cease to exist, it would have to be Catholic!
Your church exists on the idea; It must RESTORE the church Jesus established, that Jesus was overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body from Jesus!

You have placed your salvation in a LIE of; "The Holy Spirit ERRED that the Holy Spirit is NOT guiding Jesus' church FOREVER!!!!"
Naysayer Then you turn around and try to tie Jesus to your lie of, "Jesus rejects health Care!!!"
You and your church must reject.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world" ....>>>> SCRIPTURES!!!!!
For the unscriptural: "Jesus rejects health Care"!

"Jesus rejects Health Care" is not found in the scriptures.. You believe it!???
"I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world" IS found in the scriptures.. You REJECT IT!!???

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.

I have not said the Holy Spirit doesn't lead the church. I would like your explanation as to how you could claim the church has never erred. There's a really awkward moment in the book of Acts where Peter and Paul are in direct confrontation. Two apostles. If one of them made a mistake (i.e. error) how do you make the claim that the church has never erred and has always done everything 100% right? How do you explain that there's to be a great falling away prior to the return of Christ?

How do you explain the letters to the churchs at the beginning of Revelation? Seems several of them were in error.

How do you explain the hundreds of saints that died in the name of Jesus Christ at the hands of a murdering, deceitful Roman church as they attempted to stamp out the Word of God in the hands of the people of God? Is that the Holy Spirit's leading to slaughter people? Can you point to where the church was ever commanded to kill anyone in the name of Jesus Christ?

Or do you want to just get back to the topic at hand?
Dogknox
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9/24/2013 11:36:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/23/2013 7:20:21 PM, Naysayer wrote:

Naysayer YOU SAID...
Truly you have a dizzying intellect.

I have not said the Holy Spirit doesn't lead the church. I would like your explanation as to how you could claim the church has never erred. There's a really awkward moment in the book of Acts where Peter and Paul are in direct confrontation. Two apostles. If one of them made a mistake (i.e. error) how do you make the claim that the church has never erred and has always done everything 100% right? How do you explain that there's to be a great falling away prior to the return of Christ?

How do you explain the letters to the churchs at the beginning of Revelation? Seems several of them were in error.

How do you explain the hundreds of saints that died in the name of Jesus Christ at the hands of a murdering, deceitful Roman church as they attempted to stamp out the Word of God in the hands of the people of God? Is that the Holy Spirit's leading to slaughter people? Can you point to where the church was ever commanded to kill anyone in the name of Jesus Christ?

Or do you want to just get back to the topic at hand?

I reply: To this.. I have not said the Holy Spirit doesn't lead the church.

So you say.. "The Holy Spirit errs!" Because there are thousands of churches all believing different then the next??????
The Holy Spirit guides into TRUTH. Most people arrive at TRUTH by discussion. Weigh all sides then arriving at a decision!
You point out.. <strong>the book of Acts where Peter and Paul are in direct confrontation. YUP
I ask: And how did it end?!

Another thing... The Church is full of people with different understandings, it is full of different ideas as to the direction of travel! The Holy Spirit points The Church CORPORATE in the right direction! IF...
Naysayer if there is a mistake in the proper direction, in a few years the church corrects course!

You ask: 1) has (the Church) always done everything 100% right? 2) How do you explain that there's to be a great falling away prior to the return of Christ?

1) I never said the church does EVERYTHING 100% right! I said what Jesus said.. "The Holy Spirit is a GUIDE" FOREVER
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

The Holy Spirit will NEVER guide into ERROR!!

2) You ask.. How do you explain that there's to be a great falling away prior to the return of Christ?
I reply: Yes the great falling away!!
The great "DEFORMATION"! Men protested against the ONE Church Jesus established!
Until the "Deformation" there was just One Church!
Men said (Martin Luther) "We do not need no stinking church and her sacraments, all man needs is the scriptures ALONE"!

LOOK.. (below) "False teachers AMONG the church"!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.


Naysayer Martin Luther the father of the great Protest was a Catholic Priest.. He was AMONG the one CHURCH Jesus formed! (among others)
This PROPHESY holds true....
Naysayer It is impossible for the "Catholic Church to be AMONG Martin Luther", the PROPHESY can only work in the one direction!
PROVING ALSO... Verse #2 is correct.. The Catholic Church MUST BE>> "The Way Of Truth"! Proving also NO protestant church yours included CANNOT BE the truth. The Prophesy can only work in the one direction.. "The False Teaches come from AMONG the Catholic Church!"
The False Teaches come from THE WAY OF TRUTH!

You ask: How do you explain the hundreds of saints that died in the name of Jesus Christ at the hands of a murdering, deceitful Roman church as they attempted to stamp out the Word of God in the hands of the people of God?

I ask: You can prove the Protestants did not kill old ladies as witches!
You can prove King Henry did not MURDER the thousands of Catholics!
The King Of France did not also kill the thousands of Catholics!
I point out, to be a saint you must be in heaven... Until in heaven you are a pilgrim!
IF..
Naysayer if you knew your history, The "Word of God" (as you say) was full of error.. King Henry took it upon himself to destroy all these erroneous bibles!
You ask.. Is that the Holy Spirit's leading to slaughter people? Can you point to where the church was ever commanded to kill anyone in the name of Jesus Christ?

I reply: The Catholic Church fought the MUSLIMS in Spain. If she did not, the world as you know it today would be a different place.. More then likely today you would be studying the Koran then the bible!
Naysayer The Old Testament is full of the evil ones being destroyed.
Your question should be directed at God not me!

The Catholic Church is the vanguard! She stands at the front of Christianity defending the poor, the down trodden, the sick, the unborn! BY FAR..
Naysayer by far.. no one comes close "The Catholic Church is the LARGEST CHARITY in the world!"

The Catholic Church is the BULWARK against the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist and any number of false teachers!!!
ALL..
Naysayer all Heresy and Heretics were fought by the Catholic Church! You have the bible you read today because, the Catholic Church put all the inspired manuscripts into one book; She Named her book "The Bible"! Guided by the Holy Spirit she tossed out all the uninspired manuscripts.. Your bible did not fall out of the sky!
THINK: If the Holy Spirit guided her in deciding the inspired manuscripts do't you think the Holy Spirit would also help her INTERPRET the same books!??
Naysayer
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9/24/2013 1:28:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 11:36:21 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/23/2013 7:20:21 PM, Naysayer wrote:

Naysayer YOU SAID...
Truly you have a dizzying intellect.

I have not said the Holy Spirit doesn't lead the church. I would like your explanation as to how you could claim the church has never erred. There's a really awkward moment in the book of Acts where Peter and Paul are in direct confrontation. Two apostles. If one of them made a mistake (i.e. error) how do you make the claim that the church has never erred and has always done everything 100% right? How do you explain that there's to be a great falling away prior to the return of Christ?

How do you explain the letters to the churchs at the beginning of Revelation? Seems several of them were in error.

How do you explain the hundreds of saints that died in the name of Jesus Christ at the hands of a murdering, deceitful Roman church as they attempted to stamp out the Word of God in the hands of the people of God? Is that the Holy Spirit's leading to slaughter people? Can you point to where the church was ever commanded to kill anyone in the name of Jesus Christ?

Or do you want to just get back to the topic at hand?

I reply: To this.. I have not said the Holy Spirit doesn't lead the church.

So you say.. "The Holy Spirit errs!" Because there are thousands of churches all believing different then the next??????
The Holy Spirit guides into TRUTH. Most people arrive at TRUTH by discussion. Weigh all sides then arriving at a decision!
You point out.. <strong>the book of Acts where Peter and Paul are in direct confrontation. YUP
I ask: And how did it end?!

Another thing... The Church is full of people with different understandings, it is full of different ideas as to the direction of travel! The Holy Spirit points The Church CORPORATE in the right direction! IF...
Naysayer if there is a mistake in the proper direction, in a few years the church corrects course!

You ask: 1) has (the Church) always done everything 100% right? 2) How do you explain that there's to be a great falling away prior to the return of Christ?

1) I never said the church does EVERYTHING 100% right! I said what Jesus said.. "The Holy Spirit is a GUIDE" FOREVER
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

The Holy Spirit will NEVER guide into ERROR!!

2) You ask.. How do you explain that there's to be a great falling away prior to the return of Christ?
I reply: Yes the great falling away!!
The great "DEFORMATION"! Men protested against the ONE Church Jesus established!
Until the "Deformation" there was just One Church!
Men said (Martin Luther) "We do not need no stinking church and her sacraments, all man needs is the scriptures ALONE"!

LOOK.. (below) "False teachers AMONG the church"!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.


Naysayer Martin Luther the father of the great Protest was a Catholic Priest.. He was AMONG the one CHURCH Jesus formed! (among others)
This PROPHESY holds true....
Naysayer It is impossible for the "Catholic Church to be AMONG Martin Luther", the PROPHESY can only work in the one direction!
PROVING ALSO... Verse #2 is correct.. The Catholic Church MUST BE>> "The Way Of Truth"! Proving also NO protestant church yours included CANNOT BE the truth. The Prophesy can only work in the one direction.. "The False Teaches come from AMONG the Catholic Church!"
The False Teaches come from THE WAY OF TRUTH!

You ask: How do you explain the hundreds of saints that died in the name of Jesus Christ at the hands of a murdering, deceitful Roman church as they attempted to stamp out the Word of God in the hands of the people of God?

I ask: You can prove the Protestants did not kill old ladies as witches!
You can prove King Henry did not MURDER the thousands of Catholics!
The King Of France did not also kill the thousands of Catholics!
I point out, to be a saint you must be in heaven... Until in heaven you are a pilgrim!
IF..
Naysayer if you knew your history, The "Word of God" (as you say) was full of error.. King Henry took it upon himself to destroy all these erroneous bibles!
You ask.. Is that the Holy Spirit's leading to slaughter people? Can you point to where the church was ever commanded to kill anyone in the name of Jesus Christ?

I reply: The Catholic Church fought the MUSLIMS in Spain. If she did not, the world as you know it today would be a different place.. More then likely today you would be studying the Koran then the bible!
Naysayer The Old Testament is full of the evil ones being destroyed.
Your question should be directed at God not me!

The Catholic Church is the vanguard! She stands at the front of Christianity defending the poor, the down trodden, the sick, the unborn! BY FAR..
Naysayer by far.. no one comes close "The Catholic Church is the LARGEST CHARITY in the world!"

The Catholic Church is the BULWARK against the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist and any number of false teachers!!!
ALL..
Naysayer all Heresy and Heretics were fought by the Catholic Church! You have the bible you read today because, the Catholic Church put all the inspired manuscripts into one book; She Named her book "The Bible"! Guided by the Holy Spirit she tossed out all the uninspired manuscripts.. Your bible did not fall out of the sky!
THINK: If the Holy Spirit guided her in deciding the inspired manuscripts do't you think the Holy Spirit would also help her INTERPRET the same books!??

Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.
Dogknox
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9/24/2013 2:07:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 1:28:24 PM, Naysayer wrote:


Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.

Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

I reply: You and your Church are the end product of the "Great Protest" The De-Formation!

Naysayer Jesus formed ONE CHURCH, he established ONE Church, he remains ALWAYS WITH the one Church he formed to the end of the world!! SCRIPTURES TELL YOU SO!
You reject this scripture KNOWING the only church around for the first sixteen Hundred years was NOT your church!

Your words.. Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

The words of EARLY CHRISTIANS say you are WRONG!!!!
Ignatius of Antioch Is a CATHOLIC BISHOP!!!
He said..
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans8:2 A.D. 110).

DO YOU SEE IT???? "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" Note the early date A.D. 110 it is said he "Ignatius" was the student of the Apostle John!!!

ONE CHURCH with BISHOPS>> Named CATHOLIC!!!!
Naysayer Jesus established One CHURCH, your church was made by MEN in protest against; Scriptures, Jesus and his Bride!

"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!"

Naysayer You said.. But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.

I reply: Out of the Catholic Church came "False TEACHERS" the "De-Formers", as was clearly PROPHESY by God in the BIBLE!!
FALSE TEACHERS bringing the "Way of TRUTH" into disrepute!!

2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Naysayer You reject the Scriptures ...They tell you; The Church Jesus established you should listen to, or be treated as PAGAN!
PAGAN: A person OUTSIDE of the body of God!

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Naysayer The De-Formers" were placed OUTSIDE of the body! They refused to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH! IF..
Naysayer if OUTSIDE you can't be INSIDE at the same time!

You are WRONG... (Your words) Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church.
History, Scriptures, The Early Christians and all LOGIC tell you; The One Church Jesus formed HAS TO BE The Catholic Church!

"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!" A.D. 110
medic0506
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9/24/2013 2:38:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 10:18:25 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to see some people's reaction(s) to this quote:

"If Jesus had his way; we would all have national health care."_(Not sure who said it)

Thanking you all in advance!

J

Perhaps, but by the same token abortion, sodomy, so-called homosexual marriage and parenting, transgenderism and sex changes, porn, etc., would all be illegal. Oh, and separation of church and state, as it is enforced today, would go bye-bye as well.

I'd be willing to make that trade, how about you??
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9/24/2013 2:38:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 2:07:52 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/24/2013 1:28:24 PM, Naysayer wrote:


Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.

Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

I reply: You and your Church are the end product of the "Great Protest" The De-Formation!

Naysayer Jesus formed ONE CHURCH, he established ONE Church, he remains ALWAYS WITH the one Church he formed to the end of the world!! SCRIPTURES TELL YOU SO!
You reject this scripture KNOWING the only church around for the first sixteen Hundred years was NOT your church!

Your words.. Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

The words of EARLY CHRISTIANS say you are WRONG!!!!
Ignatius of Antioch Is a CATHOLIC BISHOP!!!
He said..
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans8:2 A.D. 110).

DO YOU SEE IT???? "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" Note the early date A.D. 110 it is said he "Ignatius" was the student of the Apostle John!!!

ONE CHURCH with BISHOPS>> Named CATHOLIC!!!!
Naysayer Jesus established One CHURCH, your church was made by MEN in protest against; Scriptures, Jesus and his Bride!

"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!"

Naysayer You said.. But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.

I reply: Out of the Catholic Church came "False TEACHERS" the "De-Formers", as was clearly PROPHESY by God in the BIBLE!!
FALSE TEACHERS bringing the "Way of TRUTH" into disrepute!!

2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Naysayer You reject the Scriptures ...They tell you; The Church Jesus established you should listen to, or be treated as PAGAN!
PAGAN: A person OUTSIDE of the body of God!

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Naysayer The De-Formers" were placed OUTSIDE of the body! They refused to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH! IF..
Naysayer if OUTSIDE you can't be INSIDE at the same time!

You are WRONG... (Your words) Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church.
History, Scriptures, The Early Christians and all LOGIC tell you; The One Church Jesus formed HAS TO BE The Catholic Church!

"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!" A.D. 110

This is ridiculous. I'm not engaging you on a health care post about the validity of the Catholic church, Dogknox. You're making dishonest statements. You're dancing around your own obvious errors and pretending like the propaganda of the Catholic church has any relevance to actual church history.
Dogknox
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9/24/2013 5:20:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 2:38:57 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/24/2013 2:07:52 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/24/2013 1:28:24 PM, Naysayer wrote:


Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.

Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

I reply: You and your Church are the end product of the "Great Protest" The De-Formation!

Naysayer Jesus formed ONE CHURCH, he established ONE Church, he remains ALWAYS WITH the one Church he formed to the end of the world!! SCRIPTURES TELL YOU SO!
You reject this scripture KNOWING the only church around for the first sixteen Hundred years was NOT your church!

Your words.. Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

The words of EARLY CHRISTIANS say you are WRONG!!!!
Ignatius of Antioch Is a CATHOLIC BISHOP!!!
He said..
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans8:2 A.D. 110).

DO YOU SEE IT???? "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" Note the early date A.D. 110 it is said he "Ignatius" was the student of the Apostle John!!!

ONE CHURCH with BISHOPS>> Named CATHOLIC!!!!
Naysayer Jesus established One CHURCH, your church was made by MEN in protest against; Scriptures, Jesus and his Bride!

"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!"

Naysayer You said.. But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.

I reply: Out of the Catholic Church came "False TEACHERS" the "De-Formers", as was clearly PROPHESY by God in the BIBLE!!
FALSE TEACHERS bringing the "Way of TRUTH" into disrepute!!

2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Naysayer You reject the Scriptures ...They tell you; The Church Jesus established you should listen to, or be treated as PAGAN!
PAGAN: A person OUTSIDE of the body of God!

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Naysayer The De-Formers" were placed OUTSIDE of the body! They refused to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH! IF..
Naysayer if OUTSIDE you can't be INSIDE at the same time!

You are WRONG... (Your words) Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church.
History, Scriptures, The Early Christians and all LOGIC tell you; The One Church Jesus formed HAS TO BE The Catholic Church!

"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!" A.D. 110

This is ridiculous. I'm not engaging you on a health care post about the validity of the Catholic church, Dogknox. You're making dishonest statements. You're dancing around your own obvious errors and pretending like the propaganda of the Catholic church has any relevance to actual church history.

I reply: "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!" A.D. 110

HISTORY cannot be denied!!
Scriptures cannot be rejected by the CHRISTIAN!!! You believe different then what the scriptures say "ALONE" and what CHRISTIANS say!!

Scriptures: But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.

Naysayer From out of the Church Jesus established will come False Teachers.. FACT: The DEFORMERS >>WERE<< Catholics, they were AMONG Catholics!

Naysayer Your church is right or my church is right.. Both churches are opposed to each other!
Catholic Church did not come out of the "Deformation" The Catholic Church was NOT AMONG the protesters, the protesters were AMONG Catholics!
FACT: Your shallow roots of you and your man made church go back to the great protest against Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Scriptures, Early Christians and the Bride! YOU CANNOT trace your roots back further then the great De-Formation!
Naysayer You MUST reject the PROPHESY (above) as a lie!

You MUST REJECT.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world" as another lie from the mouth of God!

You can NOT post any Scriptures, Documented history or words of Early Christians to defend your "Teachers" this ALONE is why you will not engage me, simply because you CAN'T! All you have is accusation and insult!

I agree: "If Jesus had his way; we would all have national health care."
I disagree with your statement "the Church will fail"!
FACT from scriptures ALONE: The Church Jesus established will never, ever fail simply because "Jesus is ALWAYS WITH the church to the end of the world", one verse is written "To the end of time"!!!!
FACT: The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS with the one Holy Blameless Catholic Church "FOREVER"!

Your church was not established by Jesus, so anyone looking for the One Church Jesus is ALWAYS WITH to the end of the world they would be WHACK-OH to look at yours! Same is true for the Church the Holy Spirit is FOREVER WITH.. Your church was not around when the Holy Spirit was sent FOREVER!!!

THINK: Come out of the lie!!!
Naysayer
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9/24/2013 5:26:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 5:20:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/24/2013 2:38:57 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/24/2013 2:07:52 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/24/2013 1:28:24 PM, Naysayer wrote:


Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.

Your dishonesty is spectacular. I never said the Holy Spirit errors. You insinuated that since the Holy Spirit leads the church, the church never errors.

I reply: You and your Church are the end product of the "Great Protest" The De-Formation!

Naysayer Jesus formed ONE CHURCH, he established ONE Church, he remains ALWAYS WITH the one Church he formed to the end of the world!! SCRIPTURES TELL YOU SO!
You reject this scripture KNOWING the only church around for the first sixteen Hundred years was NOT your church!

Your words.. Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church. There is so much in direct confrontation with the Bible in the Catholic church it's not even funny.

The words of EARLY CHRISTIANS say you are WRONG!!!!
Ignatius of Antioch Is a CATHOLIC BISHOP!!!
He said..
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans8:2 A.D. 110).

DO YOU SEE IT???? "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" Note the early date A.D. 110 it is said he "Ignatius" was the student of the Apostle John!!!

ONE CHURCH with BISHOPS>> Named CATHOLIC!!!!
Naysayer Jesus established One CHURCH, your church was made by MEN in protest against; Scriptures, Jesus and his Bride!

"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!"

Naysayer You said.. But given your religion's proclivity for propping up humanism and world governments, I don't find it at all a surprise that you support government.

I reply: Out of the Catholic Church came "False TEACHERS" the "De-Formers", as was clearly PROPHESY by God in the BIBLE!!
FALSE TEACHERS bringing the "Way of TRUTH" into disrepute!!

2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Naysayer You reject the Scriptures ...They tell you; The Church Jesus established you should listen to, or be treated as PAGAN!
PAGAN: A person OUTSIDE of the body of God!

Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Naysayer The De-Formers" were placed OUTSIDE of the body! They refused to LISTEN TO THE CHURCH! IF..
Naysayer if OUTSIDE you can't be INSIDE at the same time!

You are WRONG... (Your words) Jesus didn't form the Catholic church. He formed the church.
History, Scriptures, The Early Christians and all LOGIC tell you; The One Church Jesus formed HAS TO BE The Catholic Church!

"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!" A.D. 110

This is ridiculous. I'm not engaging you on a health care post about the validity of the Catholic church, Dogknox. You're making dishonest statements. You're dancing around your own obvious errors and pretending like the propaganda of the Catholic church has any relevance to actual church history.

I reply: "Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church!!" A.D. 110

HISTORY cannot be denied!!
Scriptures cannot be rejected by the CHRISTIAN!!! You believe different then what the scriptures say "ALONE" and what CHRISTIANS say!!

Scriptures: But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.

Naysayer From out of the Church Jesus established will come False Teachers.. FACT: The DEFORMERS >>WERE<< Catholics, they were AMONG Catholics!

Naysayer Your church is right or my church is right.. Both churches are opposed to each other!
Catholic Church did not come out of the "Deformation" The Catholic Church was NOT AMONG the protesters, the protesters were AMONG Catholics!
FACT: Your shallow roots of you and your man made church go back to the great protest against Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Scriptures, Early Christians and the Bride! YOU CANNOT trace your roots back further then the great De-Formation!
Naysayer You MUST reject the PROPHESY (above) as a lie!

You MUST REJECT.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of the world" as another lie from the mouth of God!

You can NOT post any Scriptures, Documented history or words of Early Christians to defend your "Teachers" this ALONE is why you will not engage me, simply because you CAN'T! All you have is accusation and insult!

I agree: "If Jesus had his way; we would all have national health care."
I disagree with your statement "the Church will fail"!
FACT from scriptures ALONE: The Church Jesus established will never, ever fail simply because "Jesus is ALWAYS WITH the church to the end of the world", one verse is written "To the end of time"!!!!
FACT: The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS with the one Holy Blameless Catholic Church "FOREVER"!

Your church was not established by Jesus, so anyone looking for the One Church Jesus is ALWAYS WITH to the end of the world they would be WHACK-OH to look at yours! Same is true for the Church the Holy Spirit is FOREVER WITH.. Your church was not around when the Holy Spirit was sent FOREVER!!!

THINK: Come out of the lie!!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com...
Dogknox
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9/24/2013 5:59:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Naysayer What "No Scripture"? No Early Church CHRISTIANS, no documented HISTORY not even LOGIC is useful to you!
This is your reply, this is all you got as to why you reject the scriptures ... http://3.bp.blogspot.com...... ???

You can't even defend your church they are like you.. No Scripture", No Early Church CHRISTIANS, no documented HISTORY not even LOGIC as to why they reject the ONLY CHURCH Jesus established!

Jesus LOVES his Church he died for HIS CHURCH!!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

Jesus' Church is holy and BLAMELESS!
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Naysayer Jesus' church cannot be your church! Your church was NOT around when the scriptures said this (above)
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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9/24/2013 6:14:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 5:59:59 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Naysayer What "No Scripture"? No Early Church CHRISTIANS, no documented HISTORY not even LOGIC is useful to you!
This is your reply, this is all you got as to why you reject the scriptures ... http://3.bp.blogspot.com...... ???

You can't even defend your church they are like you.. No Scripture", No Early Church CHRISTIANS, no documented HISTORY not even LOGIC as to why they reject the ONLY CHURCH Jesus established!

Jesus LOVES his Church he died for HIS CHURCH!!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

Jesus' Church is holy and BLAMELESS!
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Naysayer Jesus' church cannot be your church! Your church was NOT around when the scriptures said this (above)

You're way off subject, you sound like you're completely off your rocker, and a religious flame war is hardly useful to the name of Christ.

And given that you're not listening to a word I say and attributing statements to me that I haven't said, I doubt it would be very effective.
Dogknox
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9/24/2013 11:09:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 6:14:28 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/24/2013 5:59:59 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Naysayer What "No Scripture"? No Early Church CHRISTIANS, no documented HISTORY not even LOGIC is useful to you!
This is your reply, this is all you got as to why you reject the scriptures ... http://3.bp.blogspot.com...... ???

You can't even defend your church they are like you.. No Scripture", No Early Church CHRISTIANS, no documented HISTORY not even LOGIC as to why they reject the ONLY CHURCH Jesus established!

Jesus LOVES his Church he died for HIS CHURCH!!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

Jesus' Church is holy and BLAMELESS!
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Naysayer Jesus' church cannot be your church! Your church was NOT around when the scriptures said this (above)

You're way off subject, you sound like you're completely off your rocker, and a religious flame war is hardly useful to the name of Christ.

And given that you're not listening to a word I say and attributing statements to me that I haven't said, I doubt it would be very effective.
Naysayer I have been pointing out... DIFFERENCES First difference is; Jesus established ONE Church Singular not churches plural!
You say; "CHURCHES" all of them are from Jesus!
Second you are forced to reject scriptures to think your church is the one Jesus established!

Think: One church says.. "Can lose salvation" and another says "CANNOT lose salvation" ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "Baptism saves" and another says "Baptism does NOT Save" ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "The Church has a hierarchy of authority, Bishop Deacon and Priest" and another says "There is NONE!" ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "Grape Juice" and another says "Wine"! ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "Symbolic Communion" and another says "The Flesh of Jesus is in the form of bread"! ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "Jesus was overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body from Jesus" and another says "Jesus is ALWAYS with his body"!
One says.. "The Holy Spirit lead Jesus' established church into error" and another says "The Church never was lead into error!" ONE MUST BE WRONG!

Naysayer On and on... PROVING; Jesus did not established CHURCHES!!!! God does not lead into Chaos, Satan does! Jesus established ONE CHURCH and the ONE cannot be yours! FACT Your church was established by a man! Your church contributes to the CHAOS!

You MUST reject the scriptures to justify your church!
So much for "Scriptures ALONE" as your only truth!

GOT IT?????!!!
Naysayer I hope I shook you out of your comfort zone, I hope I have caused a steering inside of you for the TRUTH!
FACT: until the great protest, sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus the idea of; "All man needs is the Scriptures ALONE" was unheard of!

Scriptures point to the CHURCH for salvation!

Dogknox
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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9/24/2013 11:22:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogknox: One says.. "The Holy Spirit lead Jesus' established church into error"

Anna:

(1) Explain the difference between "Jesus' church" and "Jesus' established church"

(2) More importantly, tell us which religious groups believe that the church went into error because the Holy Spirit led them into it. You said, "One says" that "the Holy Spirit led into error."

I've never heard of "one" that says that - yet obviously you have, so tell us which one it is. I've heard of a lot that said "men led themselves into error" or "men fell away from the teachings of the Holy Spirit" or the equivalent, but I'd be happy to know which one states that the reason for the error is that the Holy Spirit led men into it.

Please name the religious group and give the citation.

By the way, I already know you won't do it. You can't do it. It's impossible for you to do it - because, as usual, nobody says what you say they say.

Now. One of us is lying. One of us is a liar. Which one is it? It could be ME. I'll admit that. We'll wait for Dogknox to identify the religious group who says, "The Holy Spirit led Jesus' church into error." Of course, if he can't do it, then we're going to have to reach some conclusions about Dogknox - and I'll be sure to point them out.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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9/25/2013 12:08:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 11:22:04 PM, annanicole wrote:
Dogknox: One says.. "The Holy Spirit lead Jesus' established church into error"

Anna:

(1) Explain the difference between "Jesus' church" and "Jesus' established church"

(2) More importantly, tell us which religious groups believe that the church went into error because the Holy Spirit led them into it. You said, "One says" that "the Holy Spirit led into error."

I've never heard of "one" that says that - yet obviously you have, so tell us which one it is. I've heard of a lot that said "men led themselves into error" or "men fell away from the teachings of the Holy Spirit" or the equivalent, but I'd be happy to know which one states that the reason for the error is that the Holy Spirit led men into it.

Please name the religious group and give the citation.

By the way, I already know you won't do it. You can't do it. It's impossible for you to do it - because, as usual, nobody says what you say they say.

Now. One of us is lying. One of us is a liar. Which one is it? It could be ME. I'll admit that. We'll wait for Dogknox to identify the religious group who says, "The Holy Spirit led Jesus' church into error." Of course, if he can't do it, then we're going to have to reach some conclusions about Dogknox - and I'll be sure to point them out.

(1) Explain the difference between "Jesus' church" and "Jesus' established church"
There is NO difference... ONE HOLY BLAMELESS CATHOLIC CHURCH; The Body of Jesus is the Church Jesus established!!
It is the very CHURCH you are NOT IN.. ONE CHURCH was established by Jesus!!

It has BISHOPS with the AUTHORITY to teach!
It baptizes INFANTS!
It eats the flesh of Jesus in the form of bread!
It removes the sins of men by confession in Church!
It honors "Mary Mother of God"!
It made the book she named "The Bible"!
It made and defended the idea of "Trinity" from heretics!
It made and defended the idea of "Incarnation" from heretics!
It is the ONLY Apostolic Church (having roots going back to Peter)!
It is HOLY, being established by God!
It is ONE, no other church is the body of Jesus! ONE CHURCH (1)
It named it's self CATHOLIC, because God is Catholic!

Ignatius of Antioch is a CATHOLIC BISHOP
He said..
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans"8:2 [A.D. 110])."

Jesus' church is the Church Jesus Established two thousand years ago.. ONE church was established two thousand years ago and it was not yours. Your church was made by a man "Alexander Campbell"!
One Church has roots back to Jesus; "The Holy Catholic Church" the same Church of Ignatius of Antioch !

You ask.. (2) More importantly, tell us which religious groups believe that the church went into error because the Holy Spirit led them into it. You said, "One says" that "the Holy Spirit led into error."

FACT: all churches with roots to the De-formation MUST believe Jesus' church failed otherwise their man made churches have no reason to exist! ALL believe (yours included) they need to RESTORE Jesus' failed church. Other wise they have no reason to exist!
The father of the "De-Formation" Martin Luther said "Jesus' Church failed, he said Satan was the head of the Catholic Church"!

Your words are wrong which religious groups believe that the church went into error?
Get your words straight Jesus formed ONE CHURCH!! ONE CHURCH is Jesus' all the other CHURCHES (Plural) are not made by Jesus!!

You should be asking.. which CHURCHES believe that the church Jesus established went into error?
The answer is ALL OF THEM!!!!!
Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, churches of Christ, Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehova Witness, etc etc etc thousands and thousands of man made >>CHURCHES!<< All reject the One Holy Catholic Church Jesus established all are made by MEN that reject the ONLY CHURCH Jesus established!!

Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" A.D. 110

annanicole All man made churches (yours included) teach, they need to RESTORE BACK TO JESUS HIS BODY!!! If the Church needs to be restored they MUST think it failed! They MUST think, Jesus left! Your church does not have roots back to Jesus, your church is NOT the church Jesus established, your church teaches they NEED to RESTORE Jesus' Church!!
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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9/25/2013 2:04:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/24/2013 11:09:32 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/24/2013 6:14:28 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 9/24/2013 5:59:59 PM, Dogknox wrote:
Naysayer What "No Scripture"? No Early Church CHRISTIANS, no documented HISTORY not even LOGIC is useful to you!
This is your reply, this is all you got as to why you reject the scriptures ... http://3.bp.blogspot.com...... ???

You can't even defend your church they are like you.. No Scripture", No Early Church CHRISTIANS, no documented HISTORY not even LOGIC as to why they reject the ONLY CHURCH Jesus established!

Jesus LOVES his Church he died for HIS CHURCH!!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

Jesus' Church is holy and BLAMELESS!
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Naysayer Jesus' church cannot be your church! Your church was NOT around when the scriptures said this (above)

You're way off subject, you sound like you're completely off your rocker, and a religious flame war is hardly useful to the name of Christ.

And given that you're not listening to a word I say and attributing statements to me that I haven't said, I doubt it would be very effective.
Naysayer I have been pointing out... DIFFERENCES First difference is; Jesus established ONE Church Singular not churches plural!
You say; "CHURCHES" all of them are from Jesus!
Second you are forced to reject scriptures to think your church is the one Jesus established!

Think: One church says.. "Can lose salvation" and another says "CANNOT lose salvation" ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "Baptism saves" and another says "Baptism does NOT Save" ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "The Church has a hierarchy of authority, Bishop Deacon and Priest" and another says "There is NONE!" ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "Grape Juice" and another says "Wine"! ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "Symbolic Communion" and another says "The Flesh of Jesus is in the form of bread"! ONE MUST BE WRONG!
One says "Jesus was overpowered by Satan and Satan TOOK Jesus' body from Jesus" and another says "Jesus is ALWAYS with his body"!
One says.. "The Holy Spirit lead Jesus' established church into error" and another says "The Church never was lead into error!" ONE MUST BE WRONG!

Naysayer On and on... PROVING; Jesus did not established CHURCHES!!!! God does not lead into Chaos, Satan does! Jesus established ONE CHURCH and the ONE cannot be yours! FACT Your church was established by a man! Your church contributes to the CHAOS!

You MUST reject the scriptures to justify your church!
So much for "Scriptures ALONE" as your only truth!

GOT IT?????!!!
Naysayer I hope I shook you out of your comfort zone, I hope I have caused a steering inside of you for the TRUTH!
FACT: until the great protest, sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus the idea of; "All man needs is the Scriptures ALONE" was unheard of!

Scriptures point to the CHURCH for salvation!

Dogknox

Scripture points to the Word of God for salvation. I don't have to defend a church history. I don't base my salvation on church history. I base my salvation on Jesus Christ and what He says in his word. Thankfully, because it means I can bypass all those embarrassing historical events like the Crusades and the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials.

I don't have to answer for men's actions regarding their misrepresentation, but only my own and how I handle the Word of God. Unfortunately, Jesus Christ doesn't have that luxury. He has to take the fall when men abuse his Word in his name.

You, on the other hand, in defense of your church, must explain them if you are to justify your universal church. And yes. I'm aware you're playing semantics games with the word Catholic.