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emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
boss1592
Posts: 80
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9/19/2013 11:42:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

It's a tricky situation no doubt, and one that I myself face on a daily basis, being an atheist in what is very much a conservative, christian family. There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to give really, but I think you have two options. You can attempt to put your points accross more forcefully, argue the validity of your claims and the emptyness of his in a reasonable and rational way and have something resembling a proper debate about the issue, or, you can shut down the conversation as soon as it is brought up, say that you're tired of the argument, you're a grown man (I'm assuming) capable of living your life as you see fit and, depending on how bold you're feeling, mention that there is nothing productive about debating with one who will not listen. Whatever your opinion of Ayn Rand may be, she said once "Those who are without reason will not be conquered by it", and from the little information provided in your post, it seems as if you find yourself in a situation that is relevant to that quote.

If you choose to go the latter route then there is little other advice I can give as that really should be the end of the conversation. If however you're like me and simply find such an option impossible, then there are a few more pointers I suppose I could give if you wish to go down that road...

First and foremost, be calm but forceful when putting your point accross. Insist on finishing your sentence and your point, call out when you are being interrupted or the subject is being changed and if you are still denied the time to respond then you are well within your rights to point out that he is clearly not interested in an intelligent discussion, and it would be pointless to have a debate with someone who has no interest in debating but merely trying to convert by any means necessary.

Secondly, if you aren't getting much speaking time, then it might be worth tinkering with the wording with which you put your arguments across. Try and distill your arguments down to as few unnecessary words as possible, keep it terse and concise as best you can and never say with two words what you could say with one. If you are asked to elaborate, then by all means do so, but keep your original points short and punchy when you can.

And finally, don't be afraid to go on the offensive. He's the one with an irrational, untenable opinion that can't stand up to scrutiny, if he tries to point out holes in secular moral philosophy, don't be afraid to point out the vast, gaping chasms in theistic moral philosophy. If he brings up Pascal's Wager, point out the fact that belief is an involuntary response and even if it did make rational sense to believe something for fear of adverse consequences (which in it's self is a logical fallacy) you can not choose to believe a proposition is true any more than you can choose to believe that you are walking on the surface of mercury. You can try, but you can't convince yourself of a proposition that your senses are screaming is not true.

That's what I would do at least... anything I've said here seem helpful in any way?
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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9/20/2013 7:20:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I can't tell you much, because my experience with parents is that they don't really care. My dad doesn't like talking about it, and my mom is happy to discuss it, when religion comes up.

The best advice I can give you is to buckel down, and deal with it. It sucks, yes, so work hard at school, graduate early, and go to college far away. That's about the best you can do. But this is something you just have to deal with right now. So, listen to what your dad says, and get your comments in where you can. Or ignore what he says, and tell him it's a moot argument. Either way, right now you just have to deal with it. I'm sure other people here can give you better advice, but this is simply my two cents.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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9/20/2013 10:59:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

Pascal's wager is a flawed premise based upon over simplification. It is like using the probability of flipping a coin and applying to predict a game of craps. Sorry, but probability arguments have to be based upon the odds of all the possible outcomes, not just a few over simplified ones.

You can't use prediction of whether you have belief in God or not as a determiner of whether you can get the other benefits of belief. There are other considerations, which must be met in order to reap the benefits of heaven.

When one throws in those variables, there are an extreme amount of scenarios where a belief in God still results in damnation.

Make a game and play it with him:

Rules:

1. Assume God has created a system of morality which must be met in order to gain eternal bliss.

2. Write out twelve major requirements to gain entrance to heaven from competing schools of belief in christianity and in other religions. IE: Belief in Jesus, belief in Muhammad, must be baptized at any point, must be baptized after you can declare your faith, etc...

There are more than enough beliefs that are exclusive, meaning you can't believe that being baptized as a baby will get you to heaven if you believe that you can only be baptized when you can proclaim your faith. You can't believe that both Jesus and Muhammad are the one and only savior.

3. Once you have your 12 requirements (write on on each card), put all the beliefs that are exclusive to each other in a pile and pick one without looking and separate them out. From the above example I would either get Jesus or Muhammad, and I would get either baptize anytime or baptize only when older or I suppose don't need to be baptized.

Those two cards that randomly picked are what then required to get to heaven.

4. Now roll dice (matched each rule to a number. IE: Jesus =2, Muhammad =2 (afterall he is Christian) etc.

5. Roll the dice to see what you believe and then see how it matches up to the actual requirements to get to heaven.

The entire point is that one can believe in God and still have no hope in hell (excuse the pun) of being a benefactor of that belief. I would even argue folks that have taken a belief without being open to change limit themselves of ever finding the truth. That of course includes atheists.

The argument from a theist is that, even if the odds of me stumbling and finding the right beliefs is only 10%, that is still better odds than zero % of being an atheist.

Then the answer is, "I'll take the zero odds and just focus on being kind, compassionate, and good to my fellow humans to and you can focus on saving yourself because odds are you are f'ed anyway."

Some times showing is better than arguing. There is nothing you can do to change your fathers arguing style. Go on the offense though and get him defending his position a bit can knock things off kilter a bit.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,094
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9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox
boss1592
Posts: 80
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9/21/2013 12:41:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Are you unaware that argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy or do you just not care?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,094
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9/21/2013 12:44:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 12:41:35 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Are you unaware that argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy or do you just not care?

boss1592 Good to meet you also!!
boss1592
Posts: 80
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9/21/2013 12:48:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 12:44:29 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:41:35 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Are you unaware that argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy or do you just not care?

boss1592 Good to meet you also!!

Likewise Dogknox. Now, would you care to answer my question?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,094
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9/21/2013 1:01:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 12:48:14 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:44:29 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:41:35 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Are you unaware that argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy or do you just not care?

boss1592 Good to meet you also!!

Likewise Dogknox. Now, would you care to answer my question?
I reply: I KNOW it takes FAITH to BELIEVE, there is NO GOD!!!

No Atheist can PROVE there is NO GOD!!!! They MUST trust in their FAITH!!!
boss1592
Posts: 80
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9/21/2013 1:07:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 1:01:02 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:48:14 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:44:29 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:41:35 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Are you unaware that argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy or do you just not care?

boss1592 Good to meet you also!!

Likewise Dogknox. Now, would you care to answer my question?
I reply: I KNOW it takes FAITH to BELIEVE, there is NO GOD!!!

No Atheist can PROVE there is NO GOD!!!! They MUST trust in their FAITH!!!

Well, aside from the fact that you completely avoided my question, I don't have to prove that there isn't a God, seeing as the burden of proof is on you and not me. There is no evidence that a god exists and we have good reasons to think that a theistic god at least is unlikely to exist, so to not believe that one exists is a perfectly reasonable position to take.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/21/2013 1:23:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

One possibility, if you really want to continue that type of conversation, is to stop the conversation whenever you are interrupted.

Something like this (change on how you best interact with your dad).

You: Dad, Pascal's wager is wrong because--
Dad: You just don't understand how--
You: Excuse me, I want to hear what you have to say, but first can I finish making my point?
Dad: Hey, lower your voice.
You: I am sorry. However, Pascal's wager is wrong because of blah.
Dad: Pascal's wager isn't half as important as Plato's blah blah blah.
You: That's a good point I want to address, but first can we finish talking about Pascal's wager?

You'll make ground little by little, but eventually it will be the point where you have conversations like.

You: Plato's argument from blah isn't valid because of blah.
Dad: Yes, well, you should really compare that to the Pascal's wager--
You: If you recall, we already discussed Pascal's wager, can we focus on Plato?
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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9/21/2013 1:57:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

If he doesn't want to listen to you then you don't have to listen to him. Try if you can to end these conversations if he tries to start them. When he complains about you not listening to him, then shoot back that he has never listened to you. Make sure that whenever he becomes unreasonable, the conversation breaks down with you complaining that he never listens.

That is the best I can offer.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,094
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9/22/2013 3:27:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 1:07:31 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 1:01:02 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:48:14 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:44:29 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:41:35 AM, boss1592 wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Are you unaware that argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy or do you just not care?

boss1592 Good to meet you also!!

Likewise Dogknox. Now, would you care to answer my question?
I reply: I KNOW it takes FAITH to BELIEVE, there is NO GOD!!!

No Atheist can PROVE there is NO GOD!!!! They MUST trust in their FAITH!!!

Well, aside from the fact that you completely avoided my question, I don't have to prove that there isn't a God, seeing as the burden of proof is on you and not me. There is no evidence that a god exists and we have good reasons to think that a theistic god at least is unlikely to exist, so to not believe that one exists is a perfectly reasonable position to take.

boss1592 You have mistaken my post to be a PROOF for God. Because most believe in a God!!
I was pointing out... MOST of the world has always thought of the existence of a God/Higher being .. ALWAYS HAVE!!!

boss1592 The cave man had their Gods of wind, fire the god of the hunt etc!!
The North American Indian had the "Great white Spirit" the Inca, the Aztec had the God of the harvest the Egyptians had the Sun god etc!!!

ALL HAD a god or gods of some kind ALWAYS have!!!
It is the nature of man to think this way!!!
All men for ALL TIME PAST have always had "A higher being greater then the people".... >> A GOD << !

Thus my statement..
THINK: There are 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

You are not the norm, you are not thinking naturally ..OR is it.. You have evolved to a higher consciousnesses! Like the fifty degrees of the Masons.. They teach at the 50th, fully enlightened last degree You are the God!! Whack-oh to say the least!!

Your words.. I don't have to prove that there isn't a God, seeing as the burden of proof is on you and not me.
I say: The burden of proof is on you to PROVE, man has never accepted the idea of, NO GOD! KNOWING full well, it is the nature of Man, ALWAYS HAS BEEN the nature of man to have the idea, DEEPLY INGRAINED INSIDE of man to think; There is a God, of some kind!

FACT: You >>BELIEVE<< there is no God!!!
Belief requires FAITH!!!!!
If you KNEW there was no God you would be able to prove it.. You CAN'T!!

boss1592 You have FAITH there is NO God.. It is just this simple!
You BELIEVE there is NO God, without proof there is NO God all you have is your Atheist Religion.. You have; Your BELIEF!!!!
Polaris
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9/22/2013 3:51:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

If you've already had multiple debates with him, it's unlikely that any future debate will change the situation especially given your age. I think you might have more success if your re-frame the discussion. Tell him what I've told you, that if neither of you have changed your mind yet future debate is unlikely to change that, and that you'd be happy to explain your position if he's willing to listen, but outside of that he's going to have to learn to accept your difference of opinion.
Dogknox
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9/22/2013 9:44:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
emospongebob527 I am in the other camp.
Do not reject your dads religion until you have given it a fair and HONEST check.. after all it is your very salvation that depends on it!

HOW...
emospongebob527 how can you reject your father' concerns without understanding his religion and the scriptures!
boss1592
Posts: 80
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9/25/2013 1:08:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes, you were pointing out that most of the world has and does believe in a higher power, simply restating your point does nothing to make it any less fallacious. To say that your idea is popular does not do anything to strengthen the notion that your idea is true. Man has in the past needed a God to explain gaps in our understanding, the world was an incomprehensible, unpredictable place from the point of view of the cavemen you referenced. Lacking any natural explanation for things like disease and storms, they turned to an anthropomorphous, supernatural agent as the cause because it was the best explanation they could come up with at the time. Now however, we live in a world that has lost much of it's mystery, things like disease and weather patterns and volcanoes and earthquakes are easily explainable by naturalistic mechanisms that do not require the intervention of a deity. The role for a God has shrunk as our knowledge of the world has grown, relegating God, for many if not most who believe in one, to the role of a purely spiritual or moral agent, not an explanation of the universe we see around us.

There was a time when people who thought that slavery was wrong were not the norm. There was a time when people who thought women should have the right to vote were not the norm. There was a time when people who thought that the sun orbited a flat earth were the norm. To say that I am not the norm does absolutely nothing to discredit my position, and I need say no more about it. Now, you mentioned something about belief...

You believe there is a God. I believe there isn't one. Both are beliefs, but that does not mean they are equivalent. You have said that I have to prove there isn't a God, you're asking me to prove a negative, but to make the claim "X is true because there is no proof that X is false" is the second logical fallacy you've made. If such an argument were valid, then I could prove just about anything, the invisible pink unicorn, the flying spaghetti monster, anything at all, and when you, rightly, expressed your disbelief in such things, I could likewise respond with "Well, you can't prove that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist. You have faith that it doesn't exist." Now, once you actually do present some alleged evidence for your position, then, and only then, does the burden of proof shift to me to refute said piece of evidence, until then, the burden of proof rests with the person making the claim, not the person rejecting it.

To make the claim that atheism is a religion, one must contort the definition of the word "religion" into utter meaninglessness. If atheism can be called a religion then just about any position about anything that it is possible to hold could be called a religion, and a word that applies to anything, really applies to nothing. It is frequently pointed out that to claim atheism is a religion is akin to saying that unemployment is an occupation, abstinence is a sex position and not collecting stamps is a hobby. It is nothing more than a silly distraction from the actual issue.
Illegalcombatant
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9/26/2013 6:48:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

I'd tell him pretty much what you have just said here. I would point out to him that these are not new arguments, pascals wager, without God their is no morality etc etc. I would then point to him you bring up these arguments and you have counters to them and other people have counters as well. But every time you try to bring them up you just get cut off.

So I would ask him, what do you want a conversation that goes both ways ? or are you just going to make what ever claims then silence any counter arguments ? cause if that is the case.............you got nothing.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/26/2013 8:00:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

He would be better off showing you how true the bible really is rather than berating you.

The bible is true, and whilst many things haven't been proven either way, is historical truth and prophetic truth is beyond reasonable doubt. It really is that simple.

So when he gets on his high horse, just smile and say nothing, you won't win, because it sounds like he is neither open to reason, nor really reasoning. Even when he is right, and I don;t doubt he is in some things.

And please try and remember that all he wants is what he sees as the best for you. It's hard to realise that sometimes, but it is usually true.

Do you own research, check on the evidence there is in so many museums about the historical and prophetic accuracy of the bible and then make up your own mind.

True followers of Christ are always open to reason, though to be honest they rarely meet it.
MadCornishBiker
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9/26/2013 8:03:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/25/2013 11:43:17 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Tell your dad that believing in the supernatural is for children, maybe you should be having talks with him?

Only because children often see things clearer than adults, lol.

Belief in God is for those who are interested in truth, not the foolishness of this world.

You really couldn't have chosen a less appropriate screen name for yourself, lol, I've never seen you show the slightest sign of rational thinking yet, lol.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/26/2013 9:45:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

Tell him if he actually knew who our Creator was, he wouldn't be so fearful of who you are. He has no idea that we were created as invisible energy before any visible world appeared from processed wavelengths of energy, which is the heavenly kingdom that all us saints know about. Christians don't understand anything about our Creator's plans for our future.
bornofgod
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9/26/2013 9:54:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/22/2013 9:44:20 PM, Dogknox wrote:
emospongebob527 I am in the other camp.
Do not reject your dads religion until you have given it a fair and HONEST check.. after all it is your very salvation that depends on it!

HOW...
emospongebob527 how can you reject your father' concerns without understanding his religion and the scriptures!

No one's salvation depends on a man's false beliefs. Our Creator already planned and created the salvation for ALL His people before any visible world appeared. We saints were sent to this world to tell about God's salvation plan but the religious Jews and Romans changed many of the original testimonies by us and added their religious ideas to make up the Bible.

If you believe in these religious ideas instead of the gospel that us saints preach, you will remain in deception and use these religious ideas to lie to everyone you speak to. Here's a prophecy to show you that us saints were going to come to tell God's people about His salvation plan to those who listen to us ( believers ).

Psalm 22:
25: From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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9/26/2013 9:56:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Religion needs to convince us, we don't need to deny all religion.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/26/2013 10:18:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/26/2013 9:56:29 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Religion needs to convince us, we don't need to deny all religion.

God created religion to deceive man from the Truth so you won't be convinced by religious men about who our Creator is or what His eternal plan is about. They have no idea who our Creator is.

Energy consists of vibrating information ( wavelengths of energy ) that was spoken into existence by our invisible Creator. This means that God's creation is invisible energy. This energy has to be processed through the brains of a man to experience a defined world that our senses can understand. So the brain of a man is the living "being" of a man. The body of a man and the world around him are only illusions that comes from processed wavelengths of energy that no man can see.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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9/26/2013 10:41:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/26/2013 10:18:10 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/26/2013 9:56:29 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Religion needs to convince us, we don't need to deny all religion.

God created religion to deceive man from the Truth so you won't be convinced by religious men about who our Creator is or what His eternal plan is about. They have no idea who our Creator is.

Energy consists of vibrating information ( wavelengths of energy ) that was spoken into existence by our invisible Creator. This means that God's creation is invisible energy. This energy has to be processed through the brains of a man to experience a defined world that our senses can understand. So the brain of a man is the living "being" of a man. The body of a man and the world around him are only illusions that comes from processed wavelengths of energy that no man can see.

You've told me this before and I still don't care.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/26/2013 10:42:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/26/2013 9:56:29 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Religion needs to convince us, we don't need to deny all religion.

It is no good saying "God has to prove his existence to me" Why should he? if you are not willing to seek out the truth however uncomfortable why should he worry about you? He has done more than enough for mankind.

God has all the evidence out there for you to use, far more than enough to convince anyone who is prepared to accept it for what it is.

He has nothing to prove. He has proven his right to be worshipped many times over.

Romans 1;19, 20 because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world"s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;

The only reason for not accepting that there is a God is not wanting to accept it, and God will never force anyone to recognise him who doesn't wish to.

However there really is no excuse for any who are genuinely interested in truth, however uncomfortable, to refuse to accept him, which is basically what Paul is saying.
MadCornishBiker
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9/26/2013 10:43:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/26/2013 9:45:28 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.

Tell him if he actually knew who our Creator was, he wouldn't be so fearful of who you are. He has no idea that we were created as invisible energy before any visible world appeared from processed wavelengths of energy, which is the heavenly kingdom that all us saints know about. Christians don't understand anything about our Creator's plans for our future.

But then again, if you had the slightest knowledge of God you would not be making the absolutely ridiculous claims for yourself that you do.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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9/26/2013 10:44:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/26/2013 10:42:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/26/2013 9:56:29 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Religion needs to convince us, we don't need to deny all religion.

It is no good saying "God has to prove his existence to me" Why should he? if you are not willing to seek out the truth however uncomfortable why should he worry about you? He has done more than enough for mankind.

I'm not going to check each possible reality individually.


God has all the evidence out there for you to use, far more than enough to convince anyone who is prepared to accept it for what it is.

He has nothing to prove. He has proven his right to be worshipped many times over.

Romans 1;19, 20 because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world"s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;

The only reason for not accepting that there is a God is not wanting to accept it, and God will never force anyone to recognise him who doesn't wish to.

I don't believe God exists.


However there really is no excuse for any who are genuinely interested in truth, however uncomfortable, to refuse to accept him, which is basically what Paul is saying.

Ok. I don't think it's an excuse, depending on how you mean it, I just don't have a reason to believe in deities, currently.
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bornofgod
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9/26/2013 10:45:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/26/2013 10:41:45 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 9/26/2013 10:18:10 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/26/2013 9:56:29 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 9/21/2013 12:26:44 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 9/19/2013 7:57:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
My step-Dad has been having these 'talks' with me lately. And in these talks, he questions my atheism and gives me long, drawn out lectures as to how I am "headed down a long, dark road in the future". And he says things like, "I hope you find solace in some type of faith or spirituality because, you will regret it when you become an adult." or "If you are an atheist then where is your moral compass?". He then proceeds to give me lectures about Pascal's Wager, the non-viability of secular ethics, and the obligation I have to believe in God. And honestly, I'm getting fed up....... Whenever I try to give my counter-claims after he hops of off his soapbox and allows me to speak, I get interrupted. He sees that I understand how to challenge his positions and instead of allowing me to give my piece he brings up something entirely irrelevant or speaks over me or tells me to lower my voice (when I am speaking in a calm tone). I am getting tired of this, how do I get my point across? How should I tell him to stop what he is doing? Help me.
emospongebob527 good to meet you...
I will give you advise ... There is no other help!!!
HONESTLY>> Check out religion before you reject religion! What more could your father ask!?
I think, you have built your wall before you have understood the direction the enemy is coming from!

THINK: There are what?? 6.5 BILLION people on earth and most... 95% believe in some kind of higher being/God! Then there is you, a young man having the truth "There is NO God" good thing you came along to set the whole world straight! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!?

Your father does not want you to convince him, he is wrong, he wants you to convince yourself you are right! I think after your "HONEST" journey to the "TRUTH" you might have a chance to mend your relationship!
Your journey might include reading the bible.. Good luck!! :-)

Personally; I KNOW there is a God!!

Dogknox

Religion needs to convince us, we don't need to deny all religion.

God created religion to deceive man from the Truth so you won't be convinced by religious men about who our Creator is or what His eternal plan is about. They have no idea who our Creator is.

Energy consists of vibrating information ( wavelengths of energy ) that was spoken into existence by our invisible Creator. This means that God's creation is invisible energy. This energy has to be processed through the brains of a man to experience a defined world that our senses can understand. So the brain of a man is the living "being" of a man. The body of a man and the world around him are only illusions that comes from processed wavelengths of energy that no man can see.

You've told me this before and I still don't care.

Jeremiah 6
10: To whom shall I speak and give warning, that they may hear? Behold,their ears are closed, they cannot listen; behold, the word of the LORD is to them an object of scorn, they take no pleasure in it.