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Importance notice to God believers......

Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/28/2013 2:47:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

I'm going to kind of diverge from the topic a bit.

Interesting insight, what does that say about mankind then?

Are we just ignorant enough to believe what anyone says about God.?

Do we actually believe miracles can happen by believing in God?

Why is religion so deeply ingrained in our society if most think its very nature in ambiguous?


Why haven't we (by natural selection of something to that effect) rid ourselves of God and religion?


I ask the series of questions somewhat rhetorically to say religion must have a place in this world if it has survived for so long and people still believe in it right?
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/28/2013 11:44:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

And people can also make any denial, or claim, or appeal to naturalism that they want based on...free will. So the fact that you can deny at will doesn't justify, prove, or disprove anything either. At least the theist is limited to his claim being supported by a Holy text, so there is at least some objective basis for his belief system, as opposed to "That's how I want it to be", which the non-theist subscribes to.

The non-theist can't even provide a rational basis for the existence of rationality, so I think I'll stick with Goddidit.
bulproof
Posts: 25,225
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9/28/2013 11:58:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 11:44:36 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

And people can also make any denial, or claim, or appeal to naturalism that they want based on...free will. So the fact that you can deny at will doesn't justify, prove, or disprove anything either. At least the theist is limited to his claim being supported by a Holy text, so there is at least some objective basis for his belief system, as opposed to "That's how I want it to be", which the non-theist subscribes to.

The non-theist can't even provide a rational basis for the existence of rationality, so I think I'll stick with Goddidit.

What is this naturalism of which you speak and why, in your delusion, do you associate with an unbelief in a deity?
Do you know anything at all about that which you speak? Or do your preachers, bishops, popes or the fairies in your garden give you the script?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
AndersonHunter
Posts: 47
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9/28/2013 11:59:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 11:44:36 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

And people can also make any denial, or claim, or appeal to naturalism that they want based on...free will. So the fact that you can deny at will doesn't justify, prove, or disprove anything either. At least the theist is limited to his claim being supported by a Holy text, so there is at least some objective basis for his belief system, as opposed to "That's how I want it to be", which the non-theist subscribes to.

The non-theist can't even provide a rational basis for the existence of rationality, so I think I'll stick with Goddidit.

Rationality is simply the ability to square "what you believe" with your "reasons to believe it". If you consider your belief to be beneficial and valid based on what assume to be true and optimal in a given situation or condition, then you have exercised rationality. This is a human concept. It's a formula for making decisions based on a process of determining factors. Nothing divine about this concept or the practice of it. It is simply the result of human minds subjective assumptions.

Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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9/28/2013 10:10:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 11:44:36 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

And people can also make any denial, or claim, or appeal to naturalism that they want based on...free will. So the fact that you can deny at will doesn't justify, prove, or disprove anything either.

Yes I am proving something. If you accept my original statement which you do it means any claim that even if written that God did/wants xyz is insufficient justification to believe that God did/wants xyz.

At least the theist is limited to his claim being supported by a Holy text,

Clearly false. The only think a theist is constrained by is their imagination.

so there is at least some objective basis for his belief system, as opposed to "That's how I want it to be", which the non-theist subscribes to.

False. That's how I want it to be is not restricted just to non theists. And considering the God believers mostly see themselves as the ones who contain the truth and will be vindicated by God and go onto a sublime bliss existence while everyone else who did not believe as them gets eternal dammnation and hellfire...........

Yeah it's just the non theists...


The non-theist can't even provide a rational basis for the existence of rationality, so I think I'll stick with Goddidit.

We can't explain something therefore God did it.

I don't suppose I don't know and leaving it at that is acceptable to some one like you right ? Gotta fill in the gap with something..........its God its always God.

If your definition of "objective basis" of a belief system are baseless assertions about a God written down by man...........well we will have to agree to disagree.

But who are we kidding here ? you don't really believe that claims made about God, by man written down constitutes justification for those claims. That's why you have to tell yourself the bible contains knowledge and wisdom that can only be explained by being the product of some sort of not of this world superior intellect.

Out of cursorily, are you going to accept any of my flaws I pointed out in your response, or are you just going to move on and pretend it never happened ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
retroman000
Posts: 14
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9/30/2013 11:32:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Are we just ignorant enough to believe what anyone says about God.?"
Generally, yes, we are.
"Do we actually believe miracles can happen by believing in God?"
Most people do.
"Why is religion so deeply ingrained in our society if most think its very nature in ambiguous?"
Most don't think it's ambiguous, though.
"Why haven't we (by natural selection of something to that effect) rid ourselves of God and religion?
Because religion is unfortunately caused by curiosity. Human minds are similar to lightning in that they almost always will try to find the shortest point to a target. Imagining there was an anthropomorphic being in the sky was the easiest explanation for early phenomenon, and it snowballed from there.
ethang5
Posts: 4,101
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10/7/2013 12:42:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

This, it seems to me is a plea to irrationality. It doesn't follow. Observe;

Premise 1. We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God.
Conclusion 1. Therefore all claims about God are spurious.
Conclusion 2. All "holy" books are spurious.

Lets take the arguments form and insert other words;

Premise 1. We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about Human Rights.
Conclusion 1. Therefore all claims about Human Rights are spurious.
Conclusion 2. All "Bills of Rights/Constitutions" are spurious.

Does the conclusions follow from the premise? The idea that we should throw away ALL claims about any topic simply because some of those claims are undoubtedly false is irrational. The argument incorrectly assumes that all the claims are false, and more-over, equally false. That can clearly be shown to be untrue.

Whatever happened to evaluating individual claims on their merit? What happened to reason and intellect? This is the kind of mental process that results in thinking (I use the term lightly) that concludes, "All women are weak / All blacks are stupid / All men are sexist / All homosexuals are promiscuous". It simply lacks logic.

So why would people who claims to champion free thinking advocate something as anti-intellectual as a blanket rejection of all claims without reasoned evaluations? From history the answer would seem to be when there was truth among those claims they wished to suppress.

Think about it.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/7/2013 1:37:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

Theists claim a lot of stupid sh*t.... "I have a relationship with God, I know him!", "Ya? Prove it", "I cant!", "Then shut up!".
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/8/2013 4:49:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/7/2013 12:42:25 PM, ethang5 wrote: : : At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote: : : We live in a worldwhere literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do. : : : : This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing. : : : : I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find Godsaying/doing............. : : This, it seems to me is a plea to irrationality. It doesn't follow. Observe; : : Premise 1. We live in a worldwhere literally anyone can make any claim about God. : Conclusion 1.Therefore all claims about God are spurious. : Conclusion 2. All "holy" books are spurious. : : Lets take the arguments form and insert other words; : : Premise 1. We live in a worldwhere literally anyone can make any claim about Human Rights. : Conclusion 1.Therefore all claims about Human Rights are spurious. : Conclusion 2. All "Bills of Rights/Constitutions" are spurious. : : Does the conclusions follow from the premise? The idea that we should throw away ALL claims about any topic simply because some of those claims are undoubtedly false is irrational. The argument incorrectly assumes that all the claims are false, and more-over, equally false. That can clearly be shown to be untrue. : : Whatever happened to evaluating individual claims on their merit? What happened to reason and intellect? This is the kind of mental process that results in thinking (I use the term lightly) that concludes, "All women are weak / All blacks are stupid / All men are sexist / All homosexuals are promiscuous". It simply lacks logic. : : So why would people who claims to champion free thinking advocate something as anti-intellectual as a blanket rejection of all claims without reasoned evaluations? From history the answer would seem to be when there was truth among those claims they wished to suppress. : : Think about it.

Nice comment, sad there is no like button to hit!

Some people forgot that we wouldn't have science if we didn't have reason, so reason is the mother of science, and you don't ask for a scientific proof for a claim that has nothing to do with science.

Seems some people got their wires mixed up..
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/8/2013 5:55:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/28/2013 11:44:36 AM, medic0506 wrote:
The non-theist can't even provide a rational basis for the existence of rationality, so I think I'll stick with Goddidit.

So due to what you perceive as an inability of atheism to give a perfectly complete account of rationality, you are rejecting rationality completely.
MassiveDump
Posts: 3,423
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10/8/2013 9:10:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates,

I'ma let you finish, but God doesn't hate anyone.

who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

Okay, scratch that. I'm not gonna let you finish. That was pathetic.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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10/8/2013 8:28:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 5:55:08 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 9/28/2013 11:44:36 AM, medic0506 wrote:
The non-theist can't even provide a rational basis for the existence of rationality, so I think I'll stick with Goddidit.

So due to what you perceive as an inability of atheism to give a perfectly complete account of rationality, you are rejecting rationality completely.

No, just sticking with a worldview that provides a basis for that rationality and logic, that we know exists.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/9/2013 4:25:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 7:57:12 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We live in a world where literally anyone can make any claim about God. What God did, who God hates, who God wants you to kill, what God wants you to do.

This is why the fact that you have some claim made about God whether it be in an email, a speech, an internet forum post even if it was written down at some point in history counts for nothing.

I suggest you keep this in mind you hear or feel the urge to justify your religious belief on the following type of reasoning............in the bible/quran/book for mormon/harry potter we find God saying/doing.............

Most religious people don't understand that God planned for some of His people to change the original writings and prophecies by His prophets and saints and add their religious beliefs in them to confuse His people who read these books. Every single Christian, Muslim and Jew are mislead by reading these books so it's no wonder they all have different opinions of what the Truth is. Here's a prophecy that was written a long time ago by the prophet Amos that pertains to the days after the first three century saints were killed. These saints were speaking the Truth but the religious Jews and Romans had all the saints killed before Rome started the Vatican and Roman Catholic Church. So the time period after the Vatican was set up to change all the laws of God is what this prophecy refers to.

Amos 8
11: "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord GOD, "when I will send a famine on the land; not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.
12: They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the LORD, but they shall not find it.